Chris Shelton: Leaving Scientology

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Thanks for saving me, Mr. Nobody, I do appreciate that, but you are a little late. I already had my aha moment just prior to my first post here on ESMB in July, 2012.

Just because I state something like I think Hubbard believed his own shit, doesn't me I do. LOL

There is just something I can't put my finger on, when I listened to the Chuck Beatty interview posted in the comments section on Tony O blog's that has Chris Shelton OP video, the Chuck video bought up thoughts since Chuck states there are thousands of Hubbards advices people haven't read. I dunno, for Hubbard to write and lecture so much, one has to think he believed his own shit, even if delusional. :confused2:

I know this question has been discussed b/4 as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTzO6aHWXUg#t=104

Hubbard must have known his shit to the core. All his lies, deceptions and whatnot. Otherwise he would not have been able to keep his lies and his "belief-set" consistent. Just like all the despicable fake "faith healers" out there, he lived off his ability to create the illusion of being a true believer in his listeners.

I don't even believe he really wanted to commit suicide with that "high-voltage-E-meter" he wanted to be built for him.

He had a few things in common with above-mentioned "faith healers": An incredibly huge amount of "self-centrism" and an insatiable love for money and power. That's all there is to it, as far as I can see.

In fact, I'd still have to see at least one shred of evidence of Hubbard doing something not entirely self-serving. Same goes for this despicable charlatan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLKuLhJoC60

Hubbard, Hinn, or any other of these charlatans: They would not have been able or willing to do what they did, had they ever believed in any of their own words.
 
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JustSheila

Crusader
There is just something I can't put my finger on, when I listened to the Chuck Beatty interview posted in the comments section on Tony O blog's that has Chris Shelton OP video, the Chuck video bought up thoughts since Chuck states there are thousands of Hubbards advices people haven't read. I dunno, for Hubbard to write and lecture so much, one has to think he believed his own shit, even if delusional. :confused2:

I know this question has been discussed b/4 as well.

In 1978, during a short DPF stint, I was assigned to filing at Pubs and left on my own. I was curious and browsed through thousands of those advices.

There was nothing of importance. The majority of those were ship related and inconsequential, so don't get yourself all in a mystery over it. Some of them were just nasty - declares, overboardings, OODs (Orders of the Day) that nastily criticised others. Hubtub had his little messengers follow him around and take notes on everything he said, then had others draft up policies and advices from these, which he would approve. He walked around all day giving orders.

Many of the advices were idiotic, or straight from the military, or based on saving every last nickel so Hub could amass his great power and fortune. Clean windows with vinegar and old newspapers, for example.

When Janet Weiland was my RPF twin (She was with L Ron and in the SO since Mission Into Time), she told me a story about how L Ron got the ship lost and refused to let anyone use a compass. He kept pointing to the stars and referring to "Greenwich Mean Time" and telling them to use their past lives knowledge. The storm worsened and they were in trouble. L Ron himself didn't know how to read the stars for the crew for "Greenwich Mean Time" and walked around all confident and complacent repeating this. They all thought he was an ass and full of shit. Finally, when L Ron got out of the way and went below deck, one of the men pulled out a compass and with L Ron's meaningless spew and useless barking of orders out of the way, they were able to navigate back successfully.

She had no good stories about L Ron, even though that is what I had asked her. She said he frequently lost his temper and had a ridiculous sense of self-importance.

They were on a treasure hunt with Mission Into Time in order to prove L Ron's memory of past lives. They never found anything. They would sneakily dock late at night to avoid locals and security. However, since they were digging up islands and areas illegally, ports along the way were warned of their approach and they were not welcome. One such unwelcome landing was referred to by the crew as the "Rock Party." When Hubbard tried to dock, dozens of locals threw bottles and rocks at the crew and some were injured badly. He was forced to leave.

Another time, he walked off his dinky stupid ship all proud and bloated in full Commode-door paraphernalia and the dozens of locals pointed and laughed. Hubbard ordered the ship to leave immediately because of the SPs.

Imagine this crazy-ass bastard, all pompous and dressed like he was running a naval fleet with hundreds of ships, having awarded himself many medals and badges, walking off his dinky ship. He was as delusional as they come. Who wouldn't laugh?
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is WHY lrh hated mankind, and did what he did - they had the audacity to laugh at him, so he punished all gullible enough, innocent enough, to be conned into buying his bullshit. Pure sociopathic envy - destroy what you hate, and for lrh, that was the goodness in others.


I'd say he failed. Goodness won out in a lot of the people . . . That is why there are so many exes . . .
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
I left Scientology over 35 years ago. Never to return. It wasn't planned that way, just turned out that way.

Life sure has it's ups and downs, but I shudder to think what would have happened to me if I was still in.

Last weekend, my daughter and I joined the local archery club and I'm off for another round this morning..

If I was still in, I would be doing a lot of things I wouldn't be proud of and choices like what I have just mentioned would NEVER have been an option.

I'm lucky. I got my life back without too much damage being inflicted. I feel for those who will never be free or free of the damage inflicted by this cult.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Last weekend, my daughter and I joined the local archery club and I'm off for another round this morning..

This is one of the best activity to keep a mind focus and get it refreshed :yes:
Enjoy it with daughter, is the priviledge of free people...family good time and hapiness!
Good for you :yes:
 
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Gib

Crusader
Exactly! Spot on insight, Lurker! :thumbsup:

Anyone who laughed was an SP for Joking and Degrading. lol!

Where's HH? :biglove:

Here's HH, although a different tread, it applies to what I was say'in, and believe me JS, I know what you are say'in. (great post by HH :thumbsup:)

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-in-the-50-s&p=1032380&viewfull=1#post1032380

"Despite Dr. Hubbard's intrepid wholetrack research, "recorded history" is still only approximately 5000 years old. There is no conclusive way to confirm any "miracles" or "spirits" during all that time of at best anecdotal "proof".

However, in the past 100 years, since the advent of the motion picture, videography and a vast spectrum of other sophisticated imaging, measuring and detection devices (spectroscopy, OCT, terahertz, et al) there has been the possibility of documenting, confirming or at least lending credence to OT phenomena. That has simply not happened.

Now you want to blame the skeptics like Randi for the problem OTs have in showing their OT powers? LOLLOLOLOLOL

Hey, there's YouTube running 24 hours a day around the globe. All it would take is ONE (1) OT to record ONE (1) short video that demonstrated an OT ability. Just ONE (1)! Then the world would beat a path to their door with followup scientific investigation to explore and confirm it as a fact.

Dr. Hubbard and his little F/Ning band of bandits have had 65 years to come up with just ONE (1) showing of OT. They couldn't do it. The best they could come up with is a tiny circulation promotional magazine called "Advance!" which contained claims of people going out of their bodies to catch muggers or somehow (it is never explained) finding a parking spot that nobody else could have found.

The "OT" ability of EXTERIORIZATION is a debunked con game. Nobody, including Hubbard and his wife could exteriorize. They mightily tried, using all of the "working" tech and surefire remedies.

Sixty-five years of utter, 100% fail. How many years more of this clown act would it take for a true-believer to begin to wonder if there is, perhaps, a small problem somewhere? LOL

Exteriorization: Scientology OTs can give lectures, workshops and briefings on "operating" outside of the body. They can define "exteriorization" quite precisely. They can clay demo it. They can sell it with boundless zeal. They can promote the "reality" of it with fanatical certainty. They can speak of the plight of lowly ("degraded") MEST beings here on earth (who pathetically cannot exteriorize) with supreme authority & grinning condescension. They can do all of these wondrous things on the subject of Exteriorization. They just can't do it.
 

Gib

Crusader
Thank you Gib, for another informative reference. But it looks more like Deductive Reasoning to me:

Premise: LRH created Scientology.
Hypothesis: LRH used Deductive Reasoning, (a system of logic designed to validate pre-conceived ideas).
Conclusion: Scientology is actually "Hubbard-ology" = Knowing how to know L. Ron Hubbard

I also appreciate your earlier reference to Rhetoric. You will find the following format hauntingly familiar, (CSW/Completed Staff Work: Situation, Data, Solution. One more thing LRH didn't "create".

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/...-101-the-five-canons-of-rhetoric-arrangement/

Arrangement is simply the organization of a speech or text to ensure maximum persuasion. Classical rhetoricians divided a speech into six different parts. They are:
1. Introduction (exordium)
2. Statement of Facts (narratio)
3. Division (partitio)
4. Proof (confirmatio)
5. Refutation (refutatio)
6. Conclusion (peroratio)
If you’ve taken debate or philosophy classes, you’ve probably seen this format for organizing a speech or paper.


Hubbard said he used inductive reasoning in a lecture, just quoting him.

Thanks for the CSW connection. :thumbsup:

To answer your question, nope, never had learned debate or philosophy prior to scientology. I started a tread to explain my findings on Rhetoric and Dean Wilbur and the rabbit hole I went down, I haven't expanded on it for reasons only known to god. LOL

Here's the tread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?38446-Dean-Wilbur-Rhetoric-Hubbard-dianetics-sicientology
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Ahhh ...... yes, sports and video games. Being a parental unit of boys who were teenagers I get it completely. I think it's more than obsession, though, in scientology or another abusive organization. It's completely defining life by the terms of the obsession.

When Mr/s Blanky and I were first together, possibly not married yet, there were scientology words that I knew were used incorrectly and that always annoyed and confused me when I heard them. For a long time I kept a list - which might still be in a computer file somewhere now that I think about it. I remember telling friends I was sure scn altered the meanings of words as part of the cult experience but I couldn't figure out what the purpose was of doing so. Now, of course, after exploring and reading about loaded language, thought stopping, confusion, and other control techniques it makes perfect sense.

So if I'm understanding the difference between, say, sports language and cult language, even if one was obsessed with sports and used the jargon to express non sports experiences, it still would not reach the level of abuse and damage cult language does unless and until it was used to alter one's personality and ability to navigate life with curiosity and freedom.




Mmm hmm..... that makes sense. The isolation creates walls - barriers of thought that don't allow for exploration. How do you think this isolation affects curiosity and one's ability to view experiences from multiple points of view?



Au contraire my friend. Perhaps not at the same level one speaks it with fellow scientologists but it's invasive and insidious. Like those weeds taking over my yard. I have friends who took ONE course who use scientology words to an alarming extent. (handle, in present time, hat, the highly offensive pejorative use of introverted [I'm an introvert ;)], gradient....the list goes on)



Yes!! I know!!! I never, ever, ever, ever(!) use the word 'handle' it makes me gag. And then I heard it come out of my mouth. I had a very Dobby the house elf moment and wanted to punish myself.



The Shadow knows.

Good job, man.
 

David C Gibbons

Ex-Scientology Peon
(Snip)

But it is also self-reflection that facilitates personal change and it is man's deepest thoughts that enabled the greatest scientific, philosophical and other discoveries.

(SNIP)

Scientology carefully suppresses true self-reflection. The only time a 'good' Scientologist is allowed to look within themselves is within the very well controlled confines of a Scientology counseling session, OR when doing 'ethics conditions'. In either case, their path of self discovery (hah!) has been already laid out for them: the counseling session directs them in their efforts (The 'Case Supervisor' will know what the person should consider), and the 'ethics' activities are directed and shaped by Hubbard's policies, and cruelly enforced by a Scientology 'ethics' officer. All of this is to ensure that the person's reflections do not stray off the reservation.

The only allowed thought is Scientology thought...This, this is the 'Bridge to Totalitarianism'.

The various strictures in place about not discussing your auditing 'out of session', etc, just complete the encirclement. The e-meter helps by spotting times when the person might not be thinking the right sort of thoughts.

Hubbard was a cunning bastard, like other cult leaders. He knew, as they do, that to control people's thoughts is to gain true power over them.
 

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
I remember posting something about the use of Scio Lingo and loaded language way in the past. This subject matter had always fascinated me, and the comments here are (as always) insightful and helping :)
At this point what I'm curious the most about (regarding this), is how those who born into Scientology and left at some stage of their life, deal with the lingo issue. I mean, IMHO people who joined Scientology but were not born into it, joined it with their mother tongue, only to have it "loaded" by the Church doctrines.
But people who were born into it-- well, Scio Lingo is their mother tongue, is it not? I guess it depends of course on many things, i.e how deep in were the parents, or was it just one parent, did the child attend a public school etc. The most problematic case would obviously be the child that was born into hard-core Scientology family, the Org is practically his/hers second house, attended some kind of Delphi or other, maybe joined staff or the Sea Org at some point or what have you. I always thought it would be interesting to hear about the experiences and process the exScio kid would go through to, well, being reborn into the real world via inquiry of the actual mother tongue.


We have 3 daughters. Two of whom were born into Scio the other may well have been as she was only 3 when her mum and dad got involved. She is my step daughter. Our youngest and the only one to have any contact with us now has been out now since 2009, she was in the SO but we went and got her out.

Growing up she knew not much else, Scientology was all there was really, and therefore her life was shaped along those lines. At barely 15 she said she wanted to join the SO and within a month or so of that she was on crew. Initially it looked good for her...or so we thought...but in the end, not!

It has taken these many years for her to reshape her life along lines one might call normal. She has all but dropped the language, but remnants of it remain to trouble her still, sometimes there isn't the exact word at the ready to succinctly describe a concept and the old scio word drops into play. She doesn't hang up on those moments, rather she will laugh with a WTF exclamation. And gets on with life.

She is now pregnant, her baby will be born free of the mind fuck of Scientology.

Her life is so different now to what it would have been has she remained in the cult.
 

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
Even if the language is not being used in conversation the concepts adopted still, I find, exist in the mind. I still find a kind of mental gymnastics is needed to shift that shit around, stuck they are like fucking Post-it notes that refuse budge.
 

cleared cannibal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Scientology carefully suppresses true self-reflection. The only time a 'good' Scientologist is allowed to look within themselves is within the very well controlled confines of a Scientology counseling session, OR when doing 'ethics conditions'. In either case, their path of self discovery (hah!) has been already laid out for them: the counseling session directs them in their efforts (The 'Case Supervisor' will know what the person should consider), and the 'ethics' activities are directed and shaped by Hubbard's policies, and cruelly enforced by a Scientology 'ethics' officer. All of this is to ensure that the person's reflections do not stray off the reservation.

The only allowed thought is Scientology thought...This, this is the 'Bridge to Totalitarianism'.

The various strictures in place about not discussing your auditing 'out of session', etc, just complete the encirclement. The e-meter helps by spotting times when the person might not be thinking the right sort of thoughts.

Hubbard was a cunning bastard, like other cult leaders. He knew, as they do, that to control people's thoughts is to gain true power over them.

Interesting what you and Sheila said about self reflection. Here's what I said about it in a prior post.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...viewpoint-what-s-it-worth&p=988621#post988621

I done most of my auditing at a time of year in which I had more free time. Another activity I done with increased free time was hunting which gave me a lot of uninterrupted time in nature to self reflect more or less at the same time as my processing. The CS tried to insinuate I was self processing and needed to train instead of hunt as it was slowing my progress down and enturbulating me . Looking back on it it was the only thing which kept me sane.
 
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