Church Scientologists who post to forums

When I see CofS members posting I...

  • automatically figure he or she's an operative

    Votes: 8 19.5%
  • think the person is probably there on his or her own

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • think "Who knows? But I'd like to talk to him or her anyway."

    Votes: 17 41.5%
  • Figure it doesn't matter so why bother talking to them

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • I have some thoughts on this but none of the above correspond

    Votes: 14 34.1%

  • Total voters
    41

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
This is a subject near and dear to my heart, since I was once a (non OSA, not an operative) CofS member who found a critical forum, found out the truth and stayed on, eventually ditching church membership then later getting expelled for it.

I see church members occasionally wandering in to various fora and generally generating a lot of conversation and interest and evaluation. From what I see, they fall into more than one category:

Church members who are operatives
Church members who found the forum on their own
Church members who are OSA staff

and then we have trolls who are probably not even affiliated with CofS but who are just playing everyone.

But there really ARE and HAVE BEEN church members who are not with OSA, aren't trolling, and are just trying to figure out what the hell is going on. And, even in the case of Tory, there was someone who WAS in there as an operative but ended up wanting to find out what was going on and ultimately left the building.

I'm not saying don't take them to task or not to call them on their bullshit. But if I had a buck for every time I've seen someone say "Oh, that person's not allowed to be here and they must be OSA because OSA doesn't let anyone but their operatives post here" and whapping someone in the face with that little tidbit, I could retire. Yes, OSA does not want anyone but ops on forums. But that hasn't stopped quite a few people who figured they were being lied to from finding message boards and newsgroups, lurking and even posting to them. I've received a lot of emails from people who were doing just that, and I've seen people come here and say they were still in CofS but were on their way out or something of the sort.

If the people on a.r.s. who I'd encountered hadn't bothered to talk to me about things (and, yes, I got yelled at, too, but I found then, as now, that the good outweighed the bad and I got plenty of info which is what I'd wanted) instead of pontificating about how I must be OSA because OSA doesn't want yadda yadda yadda, I might not have found things out when I did or have many of the friends I have now. Did OSA let me post to ars? Hell, no. But before I ended up in a position where I had to choose whether or not to stay in CofS, I had a hell of a great time talking to people and prying myself off the fence. I was rather party line in the beginning, too. That didn't make me an operative- that was just the indoctrination and I eventually ditched it.

The idiocy of various trolls and operatives is quite disappointing and does make it difficult for nice people who are in the process of trying to heal from their experience in CofS, certainly. But sometimes there are some nice party line types who are just a step or two away from being where a lot of us are now and who have no connection to Dept 20. It's hard to tell them all apart, but that's because indoctrination makes a person sound like a troll or an operative.
 

Mystic

Crusader
If the clam posting opens opportunity for lulz or some really heavy nice bashing, I'll respond. Sometimes the person is looking to find out WTF. These are the genuine postings and touch my heart.
 

_brian

WogRevert
Short of some posters such as IAAS, X-X, etc., who come on do the troll dance, every once in a while when a new member comes on and even though the content sounds fairly *innocent* (giving benefit of a doubt first), the way the post reads to me is like a clever $cn survey if you know what I mean. That's about all I got.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
I´m all for freedom of speech and all that crap, and at first I thought it was kinda amusing, but now I just find the... Shall I say... "Lack of confront" disturbing.
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
Claire, your experience sums up exactly why the CoS does not want their members to visit sites like this, even to defend them. Here, they are exposed to the truth and, if they knew the truth, most Scientologists would leave the cult.

When I was still ‘in’, and it was revealed that I had looked at ‘critical’ sites (note – this was simply looking at, not contributing), I was left in no doubt that this was considered an overt and immediately made me suspect. Therefore, anyone who considers themselves a Scientologist in good standing with the CoS and who regularly posts on forums like ESMB, is either a very rebellious type, or is doing so with the express permission and blessing of OSA.

But having said that, I firmly believe that anyone appearing here and supporting Scientology should be treated with respect and fairness. Let’s help them if we can.

Axiom142
 

NTV TXN

Patron
I have a friend that was afraid to come to this board because she was afraid that CofS lightning would strike her dead. I'm proud to say that she now 'lurks', and will probably soon begin to post. I do not think she is alone in that thought. That being said, I personally am a little cautious about some people who post, but would not be nasty toward them.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
But sometimes there are some nice party line types who are just a step or two away from being where a lot of us are now and who have no connection to Dept 20. It's hard to tell them all apart, but that's because indoctrination makes a person sound like a troll or an operative.

This is a good point, and unfortunately some people may have been scared off when posting here and being attacked as an OSA troll when they were not. :ohmy:



But having said that, I firmly believe that anyone appearing here and supporting Scientology should be treated with respect and fairness. Let’s help them if we can.

I generally agree with this. But when someone comes here (say IAAS for an example) and they don't respect others, invalidate the stories of all ESMB'ers, and want to promote how wonderful the CoS is, they are not deserving of respect. And they are not here to be helped really. They have some other agenda.



I have a friend that was afraid to come to this board because she was afraid that CofS lightning would strike her dead. I'm proud to say that she now 'lurks', and will probably soon begin to post.

Great news! :yes:
And I'm sure you are correct that there are more like her.
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
I would certainly not object to a C of S Scientologist with NO AGENDA coming here, asking questions, participating in a discussion. But so far the only C of S Scientologists that I've read here have SUCH an attitude, and the endeavor is to prove themselves right and us wrong, so that there is no actual discussion or communication. They provide an opportunity to be snarky from time to time, which can be therapeutic, though.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Well, agendas are tricky things. When I first found a.r.s., I had a sort of agenda, (if I use the term loosely as I assure you some people did) of kind of witnessing for my religion, as it was at the time. I was sure I was right and they were all wrong but I tried to "be nice to the SPs". But if you were to read my posts from back in Summer of 98 or so, you'd see that I was pretty sure they were deluded. Then, after a while, I started telling them I was self censoring and wouldn't diss the church as I was still hoping to work things out.

My point is, that this was an agenda of sorts. But it wasn't an OSA one. It could be difficult to find someone who had no agenda, I believe. What I care most about is that they don't have an operative's agenda. Although, I'll reiterate that Tory DID have an OSA agenda and what happened with her? She listened to people and left CofS and has been speaking out against it ever since, right?

But when they come here and insult people, it's deeply annoying. No question. It's just that I think that, unfortunately, a true believer mindset can make someone seem like something they may not actually be. So I think that it's a time will tell thing.
 

AlphOhm

Traveler of time/space
Isn't it a long standing tradition to point and say "OSA OSA OSA" to anyone who does not agree with you?
 
Asside from the OSA Knuckledraggers, I think the majority of active Scientolgists are either looking to be understood, or looking to change the readers minds regarding Scientology. Either way they are basically pissing in the wind, just as the hardcore supporters of Kim Jong Il and North Korea are where they regurgitate their scripted propaganda during the vacation tours of North Korea.

Sooner or later they become critics of Scientology.

A person who indulges in Scientology is a Scientologist, A person who understands Scientology is a critic of Scientology.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
<snip>

But if I had a buck for every time I've seen someone say "Oh, that person's not allowed to be here ...

You'd have very, very few or NO bucks, I think, because although you've made this accusation before, I've never actually seen anyone say that. Dox, please?
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
not a choice ...

One possible angle not covered and not a choice in the poll ...

The poster is a Scientology newbie, someone who has just done an intro comm course and has gotten great benefit out of it ... someone in the honeymoon phase, who absolutely HAD to tell some friend or friends the good news, a WOG friend, who then routed the newbie to the web and said newbie winds up here. The newbie, not quite raw meat but still extremely rare, to rare to serve up, and not yet indoctrinated as to the ways of the clams, i.e., steering clear of the web, comes to ESMB and wonders why all the entheta when their experience with Cof$ is still extremely positive.

As mentione above ... Tory aka Magoo. Tory is the critics Saul of Tarsus with her road to Damascus experience, meeting Andre Lund who runs Clambake. No need to go foot bulleting, leave that to DM and company.

Pete
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
Doxnot

You'd have very, very few or NO bucks, I think, because although you've made this accusation before, I've never actually seen anyone say that. Dox, please?

No dox needed; no one says "Oh, that person's not allowed to be here,..." - Emma does that. That's her job and hers alone (oh and the Moderators, new to me). A few times since I've joined here I've seen temp and perm bans and now a ~Known troll~ flag. It's all cool with me, kinda like it. :thumbsup:
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
You'd have very, very few or NO bucks, I think, because although you've made this accusation before, I've never actually seen anyone say that. Dox, please?

Nah, I'd have plenty of bux. I've seen people say that a lot. Particularly on the Hello I'm a Scientologist thread. Here are two such. You can do your own search if you really want to find more.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=363668&postcount=91

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=363518&postcount=75

There have been many more. I've seen posts like that on every single thread I've ever read here (and some on other fora) where an alleged church member posts whilst announcing self as church member.

In any event, what I said was correct. I'm just a person posting her thoughts on a public discussion board. I'm not on trial here and neither is any other contributor.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Asside from the OSA Knuckledraggers, I think the majority of active Scientolgists are either looking to be understood, or looking to change the readers minds regarding Scientology. Either way they are basically pissing in the wind, just as the hardcore supporters of Kim Jong Il and North Korea are where they regurgitate their scripted propaganda during the vacation tours of North Korea.

Sooner or later they become critics of Scientology.

A person who indulges in Scientology is a Scientologist, A person who understands Scientology is a critic of Scientology.

Ah, but, cupcake- I used to be both...
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
No dox needed; no one says "Oh, that person's not allowed to be here,..." - Emma does that. That's her job and hers alone (oh and the Moderators, new to me). A few times since I've joined here I've seen temp and perm bans and now a ~Known troll~ flag. It's all cool with me, kinda like it. :thumbsup:

Zorg, I wasn't referring to whether the admin wants someone here and might ban them. I was talking about the fact that OSA does try to keep non operatives off forums and that sometimes other contributors make reference to that, telling (alleged) Churchies "Oh, you're not allowed to be here." or "you can't post here. They won't let you. They'll send you to ethics".

It's not a rare event for people to say that to alleged churchies coming here, and that is because it's relatively common knowledge that OSA does, as I mention, try to control who (in the cult) can post to critical fora. I used to have people say it to me pretty often when I first posted to a.r.s. I've seen people say it here at times.

Ehhh...YMMV. I ain't on trial and neither's anyone else-at least not here.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
One possible angle not covered and not a choice in the poll ...

The poster is a Scientology newbie, someone who has just done an intro comm course and has gotten great benefit out of it ... someone in the honeymoon phase, who absolutely HAD to tell some friend or friends the good news, a WOG friend, who then routed the newbie to the web and said newbie winds up here. The newbie, not quite raw meat but still extremely rare, to rare to serve up, and not yet indoctrinated as to the ways of the clams, i.e., steering clear of the web, comes to ESMB and wonders why all the entheta when their experience with Cof$ is still extremely positive.

As mentione above ... Tory aka Magoo. Tory is the critics Saul of Tarsus with her road to Damascus experience, meeting Andre Lund who runs Clambake. No need to go foot bulleting, leave that to DM and company.

Pete

She and I were questing and talking to a.r.s. around the same time. I got started maybe a year - max- before she did and so there was a definite overlap there. I remember her posts when she was still in and I remember when she left the building. It was quite interesting.
 
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