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$cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

Discussion in 'Great Web Sites and Links' started by Knows, May 26, 2017.

  1. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    I ran across this little gem. Not only does Arnie Lerma show how Scientology - still using FAIR GAME to destroy critics - but he deconstructs the cults manipulation and mind control tactics.
    Arnie Lerma did help me understand how Scientology used mind control and hypnosis on me to get me to "go up the Bridge" to total confusion....disabling my skills and abilities so that I only refer to "Ron" and the $cientology Cult on how to BE.

    This is a great resource for lurkers wanting information on How Scientology Works and why you are having a hard time getting out of the CULT even though you may be out of the cult.

    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  2. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Yes, Arnie has done the definitive job on articulating the mind-control and individual-entrapping practices the cult deploys . . . for anyone wanting/needing to understand and get free from how the cult ensnared them, Arnie's site is a must go to.

  3. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    When I left the cult I had no idea that others had left before me. I just knew I had to get away.

    I had no one to talk to about my experiences and I didn't know what to do next.

    Then I found Arnie's site and I never looked back.
  4. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    There is a lot of good stuff on Arnie's site, especially quite an amount $cientology references to find there.
    His site (content) has helped me to wake up on $cientology true nature.
  5. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    As soon as anyone starts to heavily push the "we were all hypnotised in the cult" thing I start to twitch ... when they then add with great certainty that "only those with a high IQ can be hypnotised" ... credibility goes out the window (for me) because clearly that's BS.

    All the "science and definitions of the word" in the world will not convince me that I was hypnotised.

    I was fooled, conned, traumatised, young and daft, naïve, scared stiff and many other things but hypnotised ... I was not.

    This article on Hypnotic susceptibility is interesting (to a point) because it mentions that those with PTSD have a high susceptibility to being hypnotised, unfortunately it also mentions that those who are fantasy prone and/or suffering from disassociated identity disorder have an even higher susceptibility to it so it may not go down too well with the people who would like us all to believe we were hypnotised ... due to being so intelligent.


    Hypnotic susceptibility ... Wiki.

    FWIW I don't buy any of this with regards to the cult ... I believe we each had our reasons for joining a cult and there is no need to try and group us all into a neat package.

  6. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    I have the same cringey view of that "everyone was hypnotized" explanation.

    However, this is not in any respect due to a lack of trying by ordained Scientology ministers. . .

    Because, when I first went into an org it kinda worked. They just kept repeating:

    "You are getting anaten, you are getting anaten...."

    I briefly slipped into a hypnotic state and bought Dianetics.

    Everything after that was my fault.
  7. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I too don't think I had been hypnotised

    Although I believe we have been pushed very efficient mind manipulation processes though (studying, auditing, ethics, sec checks , rundowns...)
    (combined with the most efficient techniques like sleep deprivation, RPF, fear, isolation, non-stop depreciation and making wrong that induce a state of vulnerability to command enforcing and compliance..while mental and physical resistance are weakened)
    (those techniques are used by communists, CIA, FBI, North korea..which I am not quite expert in , but apparently El Con was..Black magic and mind manipulation were his favorite topics studied...)
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  8. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Interesting I didn't know Arnie had stated that. "only those with a high IQ can be hypnotised" I'll have to check it out and see if you are trying to suggest that he did....:coolwink:

    Well "credibility goes out the window" when what a person says heads towards the window, I pause and think...maybe I didn't really understand the perspective or heaven forbid the choice of definition of the word or words in their statement, so maybe I should set aside my concept and open up the door of my mind to analytically understand while be careful to not become overcome by the rhetoric accompanying it. And since rhetoric has a strong component of addressing emotion, just maybe the emotion I carry inside of me, is repelling me from understanding some new perspective.... so yes...there is the window....and then there is what are we actually throwing out..?

    To bad Arnie is not here to respond but anyhow.. I understanding him saying...that

    "Hypnosis is a state of human consciousness involving focused attention and reduced peripheral awareness and an enhanced capacity to respond to suggestion. The term may also refer to an art, skill, or act of inducing hypnosis.[1]
    Theories explaining what occurs during hypnosis fall into two groups. Altered state theories see hypnosis as an altered state of mind or trance, marked by a level of awareness different from the ordinary conscious state.[2][3] In contrast, nonstate theories see hypnosis as a form of imaginative role enactment.

    Whereas my emotionally packaged definition which I acquired through limited explanations over decades, was that hypnosis is like a steel pipe to which our minds are attached and subject completely and under the thumb of the operator be itself or another and through which we are fed 'whatever' and become fully the effect of.

    Such absolutism is abhorent in the aspect that the 'whatever' might not be beneficial or eventually lead to wrong decisions and activities because of the theory that a good answer can only be the one that applies to the here and now scene.

    I see 'undue influence' as a good alternative to sidestep the liability of previous conceptions of hypnosis.

    My choice however is 'altered states of mind'.

    Gottta go now as my skipping two meals and the hunger associated with it is hypnotizing me to drop this trance and go make a good solid meal and eat it.

    talk to you again in a different state of mind.. :hmm::byefly:
  9. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    That explains:

    One of the benefit, having a low IQ, may provide... :confused2:
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  10. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    To be fair, Arnie didn't mention it much here as far as I can recall ... another poster did though (who was apparently in contact with Arnie and loved his site where it probably is still mentioned).

    That other poster left ESMB with his IQ intact ... but I think his feelings may have been in tatters.

  11. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    I like Arnie's website but I don't necessarily agree with everything he says.

    I think any talk about hypnotism regarding scientology is nonsense. I would use the term "mind control". The same techniques are used in cults throughout history.

    I've had real hypnotists try to hypnotise me twice and both failed yet I've also passed the Mensa IQ test. But I would admit I was mind-controlled by scientology.
  12. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Oh, I think I know who you're talking about, Moonshine? Bluebird? I can't quite remember his name for the moment. ;) To be fair, their definition of 'being hypnotised' wasn't the cliched 'piercing eyed man swinging a watch on a chain and telling you you're eyelids were getting heavy', no, it was a little more sophisticated than that. The jury's still out as far as I'm concerned.
  13. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Actually, on the hypnosis thing . . . there are different definitions as to what exactly is it and how it affects folks.

    Two points: 1) it's a gradient thing: not a total is or isn't thing and 2) basically, it is the condition wherein one has had one's attention fixed on something beyond one's full control.

    Example: propaganda affects population control by hypnotically causing folks' attention to be fixed on the wrong things, targets, ideas or causes . . . err, and look hard on the various topics discussed here on ESMB and you'll see that fixidity of views that are effectively the result of a hypnosis effect relative to the subject of stuck/fixed think.

    Arnie delves into these nuances . . .

  14. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I agree basically with 1 and 2 above (it is gradual and ones attention is certainly fixed on something beyond ones full control) but if I had to compare scientology to anything it would be domestic violence (as someone else mentioned a few years ago).

    Once sucked in by a little love bombing the mind games begin, the threats and punishments are noticed and among other things appeasement and embarrassment can start to play it's part. The longer someone stays the worse it all gets until one day (if very lucky) a way is found to escape and run for the hills, never to return, though you will usually be chased down and attempts will be made to drag you back and of course there will be indies waiting on the sidelines trying to net a few escapees with a little ... indie love bombing.

    There is nothing sophisticated about violence and aggression (domestic or cult) though it can initially be subtle ... and it can happen to anyone, there are no "typical" victims. Things like wealth, age, education, ethnicity and gender are all irrelevant, anyone can be trapped and abused and we all know that.

    I can understand why someone would try and find reasons (or excuses) for why they were ensnared in an aggressive cult ... and perhaps for some it is especially difficult to swallow the idea that they were (effectively) a victim and maybe even a perpetrator of something so nasty but to keep repeating (over and over again) that they were hypnotised is probably not going to help no matter how nuanced ... it may even be hypnotic.


    For the record I have no problem at all with Arnie (and others) believing that they were hypnotised or fully mind controlled ... that is absolutely none of my business, I do recoil though when I see it being heavily promoted/sold to exes (as it was a few years ago) as "the reason" we were all sucked in with the added bonus of [STRIKE]a dozen steak knives[/STRIKE] a high IQ being thrown in to soften the deal.



  15. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    On the subject of "mind control" . . . which, in fact, is only the action capturing your attention and fixing it on something "outside of your control," I collided with this little 5 minute charmer last night. Wonderful real life, now today, in the news examples.

    BrasscheckTV Report

    Several years ago, Adam Curtis made
    a film about a new concept:

    "Social control by confusion"

    Creating the state of "Oh Dear-ism"

    It's starting to make a lot of sense.


    - Brasscheck TV
  16. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    From my post four or five messages back...

    you're eyelids????

    Too late to edit it now. AAAAAaaaaghhhhh!!!!!!!
  17. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    Bear in mind, there are some people who come to conclusions in their own mind they decide are not only true for them but true for every living person on earth.

    So, yes, to some, it makes sense that if they feel they were hypnotized by scientology then everyone that has ever been in scientology was hypnotized.

    Now, if the people like that get the Jesus thing going . . . . . . . . . . . OMG . . . . . they have to save your soul !
  18. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP
    I'll preface my post by disclosing I don't feel I have enough understanding about Hypnosis to know whether I was every hypnotized in Scn or not, or whether CoS uses hypnotic techniques.

    Clearly though some experts DO believe Hubbard utilized hypnosis.

    In the link from Arnie Lerma in your post he gives a couple good examples of that. A hypnotist back in 1952 upon reading Book I Dianetics recognized many hypnotic techniques in the book where Hubbard changed the terms. (That is all detailed in the paper published in the Journal of Hypnotism back at that time which he linked to.)

    In the other example, Arnie linked to Chapter 18 of the Anderson Report (from the very thorough 1965 Australian investigation of Scientology). They listened to expert testimony in relation to hypnosis and hypnotic techniques. Clearly they came to the conclusion that hypnosis IS a part of Scientology. Here's a link to Chapter 18 of that report:

    In Arnie's Facebook group on "Scientology Deprogramming" a member of the group, Steve K.D. Eichel, a Psychology Professor (at University of Delaware) and the President of ICSA (International Cultic Studies Association) posted this:

    He will be addressing the APA (American Psychological Association) in a couple days at their 125th Annual Convention on the use of Hypnosis in Cults!

    On Arnie's blog there are also some additional posts on hypnosis as well over here:
  19. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    If every scientologist followed the same cult trajectory I may be less likely to laugh at the idea that we were all hypnotised ... but they don't. About the only thing every scientologist has in common is the initial love bombing they receive closely followed by disrespect and a degree of introversion and stress and I doubt any of that is hypnotic.

    I also don't understand what part of scientology is meant to be hypnotic but assume auditing and perhaps the TR's would be at the top of the list ... but if that's true what was used to hypnotise the many, many staff who are (or once were) pulled off the street and failed to do a single step on the bridge, often for years ... yet apparently remain 'hypnotised'?


    I'm not saying hubbard wouldn't have tried to incorporate it into his cunning plan (I realise he studied hypnotism).

    I believe it was fear and anxiety (some real but most completely irrational) that kept me on the cult hook for as long as it did because that's what was used to trap me in the first place (shortly after the love bombing, lol) and it was constantly (but often subtly) reinforced to keep me there and that has always been a huge part of the culture of scientology, used very deliberately to entrap.

  20. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    I agree, I've never bought into the argument that everything in $cientology is hypnosis or hypnotic inducing. I bang my head on my keyboard when someone uses that blanket generality. Cults and $cientology in particular use a variety of manipulative methodologies honed over time playing on people's beliefs and emotions keeping them inside a cult bubble.

    WW2 Treatment Documentary

    Someone started a thread posting this video a few years ago (I don't recall who) so I apologize for not giving credit where credit is due. This video is shot at a U.S. Army WW2 Veteran's Hospital depicting mental health treatments of soldiers being treated with psycho-hypnosis-therapy and heavy duty hypnotic drugs, also known as abreaction therapy which is now discredited. This is weapons grade military quick fix band aid psychology not meant for the general public, emptying out the V.A. hospitals getting soldiers back into the civilian population by any means necessary.

    Since Elcon spent time at a V.A. hospital, I think this is were Elcon got the idea and basis for his "auditing" mind-fuck tehk. This isn't stuff to play around with keeping mind a sociopath was getting into $cio's heads using and abusing his followers. The vid is almost an hour long, IMO well worth watching.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017