Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? WTF?

[cakemaker]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

From a 1998 grade chart - note the prerequisites column,

 

[Enthetan]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

No. I disagree. For as long as I have known them - which is pretty much right from when they started - there has been an attitude in the Sea Org that "if I'm not having any auditing then you can't have any either". So seniors kept their juniors down and the aberration got passed on and perpetuated. I saw very few S.O. leaders with attitudes supportive of juniors getting auditing. Very few. The way to get production is by kicking ass and shouting. And the only "production" that mattered was money in to the Org - this came from LRH himself.

This was and is the culture of that crowd.

Yes, I'm well aware of the culture. What my point is, was that if an exec, high enough up the org board to be able to assign people to posts, thought that he could increase his stats by having his juniors get auditing, then he would likely arrange to get internal staff auditors auditing his juniors, or talk some public with tech training to audit staff. They didn't.

And if an exec WAS able to get his org's stats up by auditing staff, then orgs would be ordered to get staff audited. They weren't.

The reality is that auditing produces a euphoric state, and also makes the person a bit more "mellow" and suggestible. I would hypothesize that this is something LRH did not want for his senior staff. He wanted face rippers. So no auditing for staff.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

---snipped--

And if an exec WAS able to get his org's stats up by auditing staff, then orgs would be ordered to get staff audited. They weren't.

The reality is that auditing produces a euphoric state, and also makes the person a bit more "mellow" and suggestible. I would hypothesize that this is something LRH did not want for his senior staff. He wanted face rippers. So no auditing for staff.

At one time I held the post of Dir PE (Personnel Enhancement) and there was much to do about getting the staff of several SO installations a "standard TIP". I did them all.

Virtually one-for-one (we're talking a LOT of S.O. members!) they all had a dream of "going up the bridge". Their programs were heavily weighted (per policies and "LRH TALK ON BASIC QUAL") to get them hatted, hatted, hatted. So they could produce, produce, produce.

Their auditing to Clear/OT side of the "bridge" was just used to repair them when they got sick or screwed up, so they could go produce some more.

Having audited and C/Sed a ton of staff members, I can vouch that much of their session times were spent on "handling" their "charge" on "getting their stats up" or the fact that they were "downstat".

As it has been observed often (but is nonetheless true), everyone gave lip service to how an OT was "cause", but in reality the way the game was rigged, staff were simply ORDERED to get their stats up and to "MAKE IT GO RIGHT". That is to say, nobody really subscribed to the idea that if a person were to invest the time/effort/resources it takes to go OT (e.g. OT III, OT V, OT VII...) it would make any difference on their production. If management had believed that, they would have gotten their staff audited and onto OT III and then onto OT VII, where they could audit themselves daily for many years.

In reality, it was considered DEV-T and OFF PURPOSE for a staff member to be wasting time on getting auditing. They were viewed as downstat and not able to "make it go right" because their case was bothering them.

It doesn't have to make sense--it's Scientology.

 

[CommunicatorIC]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

From a 1998 grade chart - note the prerequisites column,

Fascinating. So if I understand correctly, at least in 1998 in order to be a Class X, XI, or XII and audit L10, L11 or L12, one had to first be a Class VIII, and before that a Class VI. (I understand Class VII for Power Processes odd man out.)

But to be a Class IX and audit New OT V, audited NOTs, and "any auditing and review actions through New OT VII", one had to be: (1) a Class VIII; or (2) a Class V Grad and a Hubbard Advanced Courses Review Auditor.

Quite frankly, the less stringent theoretical and educational requirements for Class IX (i.e., no SHSBC or Class VI course) doesn't make much sense to me, particularly since they can do ""any auditing and review actions through New OT VII."

 

[Bea Kiddo]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

From what I've been reading, it appears that making Class IXs and Class XIIs out of Grad Vs who have done neither the SHSBC (for Class VI) nor the Class VIII course has long been the rule rather than the exception. I have a couple of thoughts on this.

First, it may be relevant that Class VIII is the highest classed auditor one can become outside the Sea Org. All Class IXs and Class XIIs are in the SO. Thus, it appears there is push to have public do the BC (for Class VI) and Class VIII course because the Church of Scientology can charge a lot of money for those courses. Conversely, for the SO members who are going to become Class IXs and Class XIIs, it appears the emphasis is getting them through and earning money as soon as possible.

Secondly and related to the above, it appears this is further evidence that for a long time the management of the COS has not believed in auditing tech. At the same time COS management is telling the public that Class VIs who have completed the SHSBC are the "Dukes of the Auditor Elite," and Class VIII course graduates are the very best, it sees no need for its Class IXs and Class XIIs to complete those critically important courses.

The bottom line is that, in the context of Scientology, Class VIs and Class XIIs are much better Scientology educated and trained than the overwhelming majority of Class IXs and Class XIIs. In the context of Scientology, there seems to really be something wrong with that.

I would say this is quite accurate.

I think the Class XII's did have to do the BC, but they were listening to the tapes in fast forward to get through them faster.

 

[Bea Kiddo]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

I have to call BS on this. The mistake is believing the numbering of the courses indicate a progression. They do not. Each course is about a subject. Class 9 is about nots. It is not about being the next course after class 8.

Take the class 6 course. They cut a huge amount of R-6 data off the course. Why? Nobody but nobody does goals listing any more. Why teach it? So the class 6 course is either a C/S preparatory course, or it is a public course. Factually, how much of it do you need to be a good auditor? is their viewpoint. If you have a grad V who has interned successfully and can audit, why does he need the class 6 volume of data or the class 8 to audit Nots? He only needs the data in the Nots pack. If he can audit well as a grad V, then expanded grades, sec checking, false purpose auditing, nots, ot reviews, happiness RD etc. are only procedures he needs to learn.

Mimsey

Not sure when you did the BC, but in 1998 and 1999 there was hundreds of lectures on R-6.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

At one time I held the post of Dir PE (Personnel Enhancement) and there was much to do about getting the staff of several SO installations a "standard TIP". I did them all.

Virtually one-for-one (we're talking a LOT of S.O. members!) they all had a dream of "going up the bridge". Their programs were heavily weighted (per policies and "LRH TALK ON BASIC QUAL") to get them hatted, hatted, hatted. So they could produce, produce, produce.

Their auditing to Clear/OT side of the "bridge" was just used to repair them when they got sick or screwed up, so they could go produce some more.

Having audited and C/Sed a ton of staff members, I can vouch that much of their session times were spent on "handling" their "charge" on "getting their stats up" or the fact that they were "downstat".

As it has been observed often (but is nonetheless true), everyone gave lip service to how an OT was "cause", but in reality the way the game was rigged, staff were simply ORDERED to get their stats up and to "MAKE IT GO RIGHT". That is to say, nobody really subscribed to the idea that if a person were to invest the time/effort/resources it takes to go OT (e.g. OT III, OT V, OT VII...) it would make any difference on their production. If management had believed that, they would have gotten their staff audited and onto OT III and then onto OT VII, where they could audit themselves daily for many years.

In reality, it was considered DEV-T and OFF PURPOSE for a staff member to be wasting time on getting auditing. They were viewed as downstat and not able to "make it go right" because their case was bothering them.

It doesn't have to make sense--it's Scientology.

When you're in the Sea Org, you're an elite member of the military fighting in a war, not only is there no time for auditing, but requiring auditing is a sign of weakness.

There's no need for you to waste time chasing around the imaginary disembodied space aliens running around in your head , when wearing the fake navy costume instantly makes you a super hero. Now get out there and save the planet by making E̶l̶r̶o̶n̶ Miscavige rich.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

When you're in the Sea Org, you're an elite member of themilitary fighting in a war, not only is there no time for auditing, but requiring auditing is a sign of weakness.

There's no need for you to waste time chasing around the imaginary disembodied space aliens running around in your head , when wearing the fake navy costume instantly makes you a super hero. Now get out there and save the planet by making E̶l̶r̶o̶n̶ Miscavige rich.

That is EXACTLY the mindset I accessed (when needed) while in Scientology that was my personal COGNITIVE DISSONANCE that explained all the obvious weirdness and contradictions.

It was a war of good vs. evil. Death vs. immortality. Nightmares vs. dreams. Wait a second, let me get out that script and see what it said, exactly. lol. It went something like this (pauses, gets in character: 'Alright Mr. Demille....I'm ready for my closeup...')

"In a war, many undesirable and awful
things happen...but I guess they're necessary." ​

That concept handily kept me in the game as a person wanting to get to the "top of the bridge". I didn't actually carry that mindset around with me 99% of the time, but when something weird happened, i used that as a reference and method to keep going.

Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

Not sure when you did the BC, but in 1998 and 1999 there was hundreds of lectures on R-6.

I did the course in 81-82. I did the last of the subject order Briefing courses. At that time they were starting to deliver the first of the date order checksheets. Prior to that I did the old R6EW course, which had a raft of confidential R-6 tapes. All of the R-6 tapes that were not confidential were left on the course, ostensibly because they were about listing and nulling and assessment. All of the confidential R-6 tapes were deleted from the course. When I did the confidential section of the BC I had to carry my notes I made of the tapes in a locked briefcase, and I had to burn them out back of old ASHO in the parking lot at the end of the course.

Mimsey

 

[Bea Kiddo]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

I did the course in 81-82. I did the last of the subject order Briefing courses. At that time they were starting to deliver the first of the date order checksheets. Prior to that I did the old R6EW course, which had a raft of confidential R-6 tapes. All of the R-6 tapes that were not confidential were left on the course, ostensibly because they were about listing and nulling and assessment. All of the confidential R-6 tapes were deleted from the course. When I did the confidential section of the BC I had to carry my notes I made of the tapes in a locked briefcase, and I had to burn them out back of old ASHO in the parking lot at the end of the course.

Mimsey

Crazy.

And awesome.

So old school.

I love it.

I did not know that part.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

When you're in the Sea Org, you're an elite member of the military fighting in a war, not only is there no time for auditing, but requiring auditing is a sign of weakness.

There's no need for you to waste time chasing around the imaginary disembodied space aliens running around in your head , when wearing the fake navy costume instantly makes you a super hero. Now get out there and save the planet by making E̶l̶r̶o̶n̶ Miscavige rich.

What ever happened to "no case on post"? Wasn't that the reason there was little staff auditing? The "we're not running a clinic" mindset? Staff were either motivated to get up the bridge by co-auditing etc. and made progress like I did, or they completed their contracts in the same case state they started in. I went on staff as a grade IV and left OT7EP.

Mimsey

 

[Terril park]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

So what I get is:

a) The Co$ does not follow its own procedures. No surprises there, time honored tradition. Tubs didn't follow his own rules, either.

b) This does not seem to make any difference in tech delivery. Well, sure, this is because the tech is load of fetid dingo's kidneys.

Is there any special significance to this, like a sign the cult is unraveling faster? Because all I see is business as usual. Perhaps it is one more piece of evidence that the Dwarf Mendacious does not believe in the tech, as he feels so free to gut it.

The tech when delivered by those of good will can work wonderfully. Is does so in the FZ and used to be in CO$. I have experienced both. All the indications are that it rarely works well in CO$ nowdays. Many stories of how the experience is negative.

The above is one of the reasons the cult is unravelling faster. If you look at
Mike Rinders posts and leaks of minutes of the various OT committees the
statistics are appallingly bad. The attendence to the "greatest event in the history of the universe" was dismal.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

I have to call BS on this. The mistake is believing the numbering of the courses indicate a progression. They do not. Each course is about a subject. Class 9 is about nots. It is not about being the next course after class 8.

Take the class 6 course. They cut a huge amount of R-6 data off the course. Why? Nobody but nobody does goals listing any more. Why teach it? So the class 6 course is either a C/S preparatory course, or it is a public course. Factually, how much of it do you need to be a good auditor? is their viewpoint. If you have a grad V who has interned successfully and can audit, why does he need the class 6 volume of data or the class 8 to audit Nots? He only needs the data in the Nots pack. If he can audit well as a grad V, then expanded grades, sec checking, false purpose auditing, nots, ot reviews, happiness RD etc. are only procedures he needs to learn.

Mimsey

I'm not tech trained but I was thinking along these lines also. I worked in an org that did NOTs delivery and I recall something along these lines regarding Class VI. Grad V gives you what you need as a prereq for NOTs training.

It's the first time I've heard they're cutting the BC and Class VIII out of Class XII training, though.

 

[Veda]

The tech works!

The tech

"The tech," in this usage, means Hubbard's instruction, or know-how, usually related to his "Grade Chart."

(Scientologists like to use the word "tech" without explaining exactly what they mean.)

when delivered by those of good will can work wonderfully. Is does so in the FZ and used to be in CO$.

-snip-

When - what years - did "the tech" work wonderfully in the CofS?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

I did the course in 81-82. I did the last of the subject order Briefing courses. At that time they were starting to deliver the first of the date order checksheets. Prior to that I did the old R6EW course, which had a raft of confidential R-6 tapes. All of the R-6 tapes that were not confidential were left on the course, ostensibly because they were about listing and nulling and assessment. All of the confidential R-6 tapes were deleted from the course. When I did the confidential section of the BC I had to carry my notes I made of the tapes in a locked briefcase, and I had to burn them out back of old ASHO in the parking lot at the end of the course.

HellYeah!

And the funny part is this--there was absolutely NOTHING confidential about the confidential R-6 SHSBC tapes.

It was all just made up sci-fi gibberish, dead-end theories and delusional mumbo-jumbo that didn't mean anything and Hubbard charged a fortune for.

What a bizarre world Scientologists live in!!!

 

[cakemaker]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

Fascinating. So if I understand correctly, at least in 1998 in order to be a Class X, XI, or XII and audit L10, L11 or L12, one had to first be a Class VIII, and before that a Class VI. (I understand Class VII for Power Processes odd man out.)

But to be a Class IX and audit New OT V, audited NOTs, and "any auditing and review actions through New OT VII", one had to be: (1) a Class VIII; or (2) a Class V Grad and a Hubbard Advanced Courses Review Auditor.

Quite frankly, the less stringent theoretical and educational requirements for Class IX (i.e., no SHSBC or Class VI course) doesn't make much sense to me, particularly since they can do ""any auditing and review actions through New OT VII."

Pretty much.
The full grade chart is at http://www.najbjerg.info/scientologi/form37-enggradechart.pdf if you want to look at the Class VI prerequisites.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Re: The tech works!

"The tech," in this usage, means Hubbard's instruction, or know-how, usually related to his "Grade Chart."

(Scientologists like to use the word "tech" without explaining exactly what they mean.)



When - what years - did "the tech" work wonderfully in the CofS?

LOL

You have opened up [STRIKE]Pandora's[/STRIKE] Fandora's Box.

Tech fans are like the The Little (venusian) Train That Could.

They keep saying the magic tech words, over and over and over. . . hoping it will come true.

I think it can...
I think it can...
I think it can...
(work)
​

It's an affirmation.

Scientologists these days call it "knowingness".

Low toned wogs call it "wishful thinking".

 

[anonomog]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

The tech when delivered by those of good will can work wonderfully. Is does so in the FZ and used to be in CO$. <snip>

I know you are promoting the freezone, but this doesn't do the freezone any favours. Because as I understand it the success of FZ tech is subject to the emotional mindset of the auditor.

The tech only works if it is 100% standard.
The tech always works, if it doesn't it is the client who has done something wrong.
The tech works if the auditor is of good will.
The tech doesn't work if the client is hungry or tired.
etc etc

There are so many reasons given why the tech doesn't work. Why is this powerful tech so fragile that even an indifferent auditor can screw it up so badly?

 

[Lulu Belle]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

OOT on internships auditing in the HGCs ? Oh, HELL yes ! That is where hours are done in ANY auditing internship.

Any auditing in an HGC is, most likely, an intern................period. Most likely anyone but a BIG celeb who got auditing in any HGC was audited by an intern.

Along this line....

There's an LRH reference that says only a Class VIII can audit a celebrity.

(Don't know whether or not this is still being followed....)

 

[Bea Kiddo]

Re: Class IX and XII Auditors who did not complete SHSBC or the Class VIII Course? W

Along this line....

There's an LRH reference that says only a Class VIII can audit a celebrity.

(Don't know whether or not this is still being followed....)

For the most part CCI was pretty strict about this. But then if the preclear wanted a specific auditor (for example, wanted a black auditor), this would sometimes be "overlooked".

Then later, with the Golden Age of Tech, those auditor trained in GAT were considered better and they would be used. The Class VIII's, for the most part, were old foggies who could/not/did/not make through the metering course (and thus not GAT trained).

Sorry for any offense ...