Clear on Objectives?

Tanstaafl

Crusader
On a copy I downloaded of NOTs Series #11 it states that a BT may have gone Clear on Objectives.

Firstly, can anyone confirm that this is what is actually said in the issue?

Secondly, how could that happen? If a BT could go Clear on Objectives then why not the preclear him/herself? If that were true it directly contradicts statements from LRH that one could go Clear solely on Dianetics or the Clearing Course.

Yours in confusion,

tanstaafl
 

Ralph Hilton

Patron Meritorious
Yes, NOTS 11 says that.
To clarify:
From HCO BULLETIN OF 24 SEPTEMBER 1978R ISSUE IV
REVISED 2 OCTOBER 1980 THE STATE OF CLEAR
"The State of Clear . . . can be achieved prior to doing the Clearing Course. It can occur on Dianetic auditing, especially New Era Dianetics. Sometimes it has occurred on Goals Processing, and even on Objective Processes."
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
Yes, NOTS 11 says that.
To clarify:
From HCO BULLETIN OF 24 SEPTEMBER 1978R ISSUE IV
REVISED 2 OCTOBER 1980 THE STATE OF CLEAR
"The State of Clear . . . can be achieved prior to doing the Clearing Course. It can occur on Dianetic auditing, especially New Era Dianetics. Sometimes it has occurred on Goals Processing, and even on Objective Processes."

Thanks Ralph.

Is the 1980 HCOB you quoted a confidential issue?
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader

Presumably then, a preclear may think they've gone Clear on Objectives but invalidate the idea because they "know" you can only go Clear on NED or the CC. If they're at a Class V org with a Class V Grad C/S there wouldn't appear to be much likelihood of this being suspected/spotted.

Also, I'm not finding it easy to mock-up how someone could have the clear cog from the results of Objective processes.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Also, I'm not finding it easy to mock-up how someone could have the clear cog from the results of Objective processes.

Oh? I don't see how it is impossible at all.

Anyway, here's a quote from a David Mayo article on Clear (emphasis mine):
Let us examine more closely what happened in late 1978 and early 1979. LRH was being audited and concluded that one of the things wrong with his case was that he had been audited on dianetic auditing after he had attained the "state of clear" (which he at first thought had occurred in objective processing). He then issued a bulletin forbidding the running of dianetic auditing on clears and made various other technical and administrative changes.

Paul
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Oh? I don't see how it is impossible at all.

Anyway, here's a quote from a David Mayo article on Clear (emphasis mine):


Paul

You know, Paul, the best Clears I had the pleasure of knowing were always those who had gone clear last lifetime around the same time I went clear last lifetime. I honestly never met a this lifetime Clear who resonated to me in the same way.
 

Mojo

Silver Meritorious Patron
You know, Paul, the best Clears I had the pleasure of knowing were always those who had gone clear last lifetime around the same time I went clear last lifetime. I honestly never met a this lifetime Clear who resonated to me in the same way.

Firstly, congradulations on your successful exit of the COS (if I may put it that way?) I too succeeded in getting a refund (quite large at that) from the COS but I was a mere public and aside from some juvenile attempts at intimidation from a few of the upper level staff (which produced exactly zero effect on me) I received it in relatively short order. Glad to see you're free.

On a technical note, or question, could you/would you (or Paul, Ralph, Terril, Alanzo, Alan, etc etc et al) briefly define or explain (i.e. elaborate on) what a last-lifetime clear is?

One might reasonably assume it was one that was clear in a previous lifetime. Is that accurate? And if so, my questions are these: Did such a one necessarily go clear via dianetics? and does the mere statement: "I went clear in a previous lifetime" qualify that one as being recognized as being a last lifetime clear?

And for the sake of clarity regarding being clear :unsure: is there a current commonly used scientology definition of being clear that you are using? And if so, could you articulate it here?

Thanks.

Mojo

p.s. for the record, if it matters, the reason I am even here (on the Ex-Scientologist Message Board) and asking you such questions as I have is because I am certain that dianetic auditing (if nothing else scientological) has some inherent individual/social value for at least some significant portion of any current civilized society, though I haven't yet quite figured out why that it so, or how it is so. I didn't 'join/participate' (i.e. purchase auditing) in the church of scientology to save myself or to save the world (which seems to have been the overriding motivation of at least the majority of those persons whom have posted their stories on the 'through the door' website http://alley.ethercat.com/door/) I joined out of pure philosophical/spiritual curiosity. When my auditing sessions consisted of 90% or more time of having a floating needle, at the absurd price I was paying for it, along with reading a critical book on the church, I left. Thus the ignorance revealed in my questions above I hope have been answered in advance (lol). Mo
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
Firstly, congradulations on your successful exit of the COS (if I may put it that way?) I too succeeded in getting a refund (quite large at that) from the COS but I was a mere public and aside from some juvenile attempts at intimidation from a few of the upper level staff (which produced exactly zero effect on me) I received it in relatively short order. Glad to see you're free.

On a technical note, or question, could you/would you (or Paul, Ralph, Terril, Alanzo, Alan, etc etc et al) briefly define or explain (i.e. elaborate on) what a last-lifetime clear is?

One might reasonably assume it was one that was clear in a previous lifetime. Is that accurate? And if so, my questions are these: Did such a one necessarily go clear via dianetics? and does the mere statement: "I went clear in a previous lifetime" qualify that one as being recognized as being a last lifetime clear?

And for the sake of clarity regarding being clear :unsure: is there a current commonly used scientology definition of being clear that you are using? And if so, could you articulate it here?

Thanks.

Mojo

p.s. for the record, if it matters, the reason I am even here (on the Ex-Scientologist Message Board) and asking you such questions as I have is because I am certain that dianetic auditing (if nothing else scientological) has some inherent individual/social value for at least some significant portion of any current civilized society, though I haven't yet quite figured out why that it so, or how it is so. I didn't 'join/participate' (i.e. purchase auditing) in the church of scientology to save myself or to save the world (which seems to have been the overriding motivation of at least the majority of those persons whom have posted their stories on the 'through the door' website http://alley.ethercat.com/door/) I joined out of pure philosophical/spiritual curiosity. When my auditing sessions consisted of 90% or more time of having a floating needle, at the absurd price I was paying for it, along with reading a critical book on the church, I left. Thus the ignorance revealed in my questions above I hope have been answered in advance (lol). Mo

I'm not a major tech terminal. But I'll throw in my two cents.

Mayo said:-

"Perhaps what we have been calling "clear" is "no longer chronically affected by engrams" or "engrams no longer in chronic restimulation." As such, the state would be more accurately described as a state of release or as a state of reduction. In other words, it would mean that the majority of a person's aberrations had gone into abeyance."

I like that statement.

The bridge is broadly about ability gained. One may describe the above as an ability.

Logically we know it is not stable. Teegeack is mostly populated by non clears. Clears may go PTS. Thus effect of case. Don't mean they are not clear. But there is still unhandled, unexamined case that makes that possible.
In a clear, usually in abeyance.

Anyway, one might have achieved this state in a previous lifetime, and
quite a few consider that so in earlier times in scn , and dates may match.
There have been a few reports of validation by PC folder on this. COS is not
relesing info here though.

There has been some evidence or at least comment on clearing tech earliar
on the track.

This may tie in with Natural Clear.

Its all an interesting are to explore. :)
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Evidence indicates that the state of CLEAR is an on-going state of clearings.

What most Scio's are calling CLEAR is a "Freedom from Dramatizing something you were stuck in."

That is the being separates from what they were sitting in.

Alan
 

beyond_horizons

Patron Meritorious
Evidence indicates that the state of CLEAR is an on-going state of clearings.
You nailed it. Living towards previously realized goals is definitely a lot easier and more rewarding outside that box than what I recall from within it! Things do get clearer and clearer each and every day!
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Clear, as I see it, is neutral on the pendulum. One has swung to even. Past and future are equal. Potential and pretential are equal. Who are you is the real question to be solved at that point. And it may be the only question every really worth asking.
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
Oh? I don't see how it is impossible at all.

Tut tut Paul. I didn't say impossible - I said I found it hard to mock-up, just as I did with the person who went Clear watching Mary Poppins on DVD. :)

Anyway, here's a quote from a David Mayo article on Clear (emphasis mine):

Hmmmm. LRH also states on the Class VIII course that he never got the R6 implant - which would make him a natural clear wouldn't it?

Cheers

tanstaafl
 

beyond_horizons

Patron Meritorious
I'm not a major tech terminal. But I'll throw in my two cents.

Mayo said:-

"Perhaps what we have been calling "clear" is "no longer chronically affected by engrams" or "engrams no longer in chronic restimulation." As such, the state would be more accurately described as a state of release or as a state of reduction. In other words, it would mean that the majority of a person's aberrations had gone into abeyance."

I like that statement.

The bridge is broadly about ability gained. One may describe the above as an ability.

Logically we know it is not stable. Teegeack is mostly populated by non clears. Clears may go PTS. Thus effect of case. Don't mean they are not clear. But there is still unhandled, unexamined case that makes that possible.
In a clear, usually in abeyance.
I totally respect Mayo, a major tech terminal and obviously a man of character and integrity.

When one actually regains the ability to examine why there are non clears on Teegeack one discovers it’s because, Hubbologically speaking of course, it’s an imaginary place straight out of the Hubboverse! :nervous:

My explorations outside the box and here with the relatives of Earth, have lead me to the discovery that things get clearer and clearer and more stable each and every day!
:)
 

Jimmy Cricket

Patron with Honors
It may be tape 7. He simply says he didn't get the R6 implant - that's it.

Thanks; I don't have access to these tapes.

Any idea if LRH claimed to be the only being that was always free from the R6 implant?

I don't recall LRH ever going into detail about how he came to rise above the Bank, only that he never agreed to get a Bank.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Evidence indicates that the state of CLEAR is an on-going state of clearings.

What most Scio's are calling CLEAR is a "Freedom from Dramatizing something you were stuck in."

That is the being separates from what they were sitting in.

Alan


Clearing is a nice word to use to describe ongoing spiritual rehab. Ron's Clears seemed to be able to retain some analytical units even when being hit with reactivity. Or at least the comm lag between reactivity and objectivity was shortened.
 
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