Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Mest Clear would be a Dianetic Clear.

Theta Clear refers to being stably outside the body.

Cleared Theta Clear refers to OT.

Clear OT also refers to OT: "This is a proofed up being who no longer has a bank.."

-snip-

In 1978, Hubbard decided that "keyed out Clear is Clear," and that Dianetic Clears should not do PP, R6ew, and CC.

In 1970, Hubbard had written of Dianetic Clear:

"Only about 2 percent actually go clear on Dianetics. A Dianetic Clear as any other Dianetic PC now goes up through the Grades of Scientology and on to the proper Clearing Course. The Dianetic Clear of Book 1 was clear of somatics. The Book 1 definition is correct. This is the end phenomena of Dianetics as per the Classification Chart and Book 1."

A Clear of somatics Clear!

And don't forget those (actual) GPM Clears, with "one GPM Clears" and "two GPM Clears" and "three GPM Clears," and, I think, Hubbard was supposed to have made "5 GPM Clear."

And then - if I recall correctly - there was the lecture, 'The Story of Dianetics of Scientology', where Hubbard stated that he had made the first Dianetic Clears in 1947, and that these were Theta Clears. At the time of that lecture, Book 1 Clears were not regarded as being as Clear as the Clears then being produced. They were said to have been Theta Clears (stably outside the body), but later became (1970) Somatic Clears, but then with keyed out Clear being redefined as Clear (1978), and hundreds of Scientologists deciding they had "gone Dianetic Clear in 1947 after having been audited by Ron," and going "up lines" with checkbooks in hand, they became acceptable as Clears somehow...

And it goes on and on...

And it's not quite as neat as the merry modern Scientologists would like to think.

Their guru left them with a whole lot of loose-ends, each tightly shrink-wrapped in cellophane as "LRH datums."

But that's not a problem for the merry modern Scientologist, happily content in his "total certainty."

Without knowing it, his senior tech can be found in this booklet http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg, and it overrides all the loose-ends.

Turns out that the loose-ends are just a medium, used as a means to an end. Hubbard's system of mental-healing only needs to "work" up to a point, since it was only a front and a medium, or means, for something else.

That something else was inadvertently revealed in his 1938 'Excalibur' letter and in his 1946 'Affirmations':

"I have high hopes of smashing my name into history... [so] that it will take a legendary form... That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned."

"Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I met him briefly in New Zealand in 1978.

I think Mayo's issue shows that he is uncertain about being clear himself. In the spirit of solidarity, I suggest that David Mayo sees Marty to have a review session.


In relation to the states of Clear he lists as evidence of "gradients".

Mest Clear would be a Dianetic Clear.

Theta Clear refers to being stably outside the body.

Cleared Theta Clear refers to OT.

Clear OT also refers to OT: "This is a proofed up being who no longer has a bank.."

The problem with Theta Clears was that being exterior was just the beginning and the thetan could hit various phenomena apart from running on automatic in many areas and factually having a long way to go upscale..

So there is the essential need to have somebody clear before they run OT levels. It is pretty consistent really.

I don't know why Mayo referred to "word clear" in the same list unless that was humour.

In regards to the issue where Mayo is allegedly sent in by the psychs. Somebody would have done the research on this, thus LRH or not I hold it in question. I want to see the evidence. I think he is a valuable being but he is muddying up the waters on this subject.

Mayo was sent in by the psychs, eh? Not the FBI? Not the Martians? But the psychs? Okay.

Here's the thing. You don't become a Class XII auditor, Senior C/S Int for a decade or so, without knowing Scientology, do you? Ya think someone else might've sec checked him once or twice? Ya think they might have done a Clear Certainty Rundown on him? Ya think he might have had his eligibility checks? Are you saying that Scientology doesn't work, that sec checks don't work, that Clear Certainty Rundowns don't work, that Eligibility Checks don't work, and that Class XII Senior C/S Ints are clueless about tech?

Sounds like you're in doubt, buddy.
 

ULRC/S

Patron with Honors
To understand Clear you need to understand Mind Body Thetan.

Clear is a state where the thetan (you) doesn't have a bank. It is clear cut.
Other phenomena connected with the body are handled on the Pre OT levels<<

Some are, some are handled a little, and many are not handled at all.

>>The fact that some of these people, on this Board, have gone sour and been declared is not a good indicator. It seems to me, as a side note, that some in the Church want to believe in SPs, this is a games condition. So they are happy when someone is declared, end of story. I tend to wonder why Minuet in G and Feral made it go right for so many years to do their Solo Nots and regular trips to Flag, I would have thought that regardless of what they say now they would have been making case gain<<

I'm sure they were, but as it was all extranious case, once it's gone they don't always feel much different inside, and they soon get used to the changed beingness. But how they present to the external world can be radically different.

I did the Happiness RD, thought it a complete waste of time, but others said I had changed amazingly.

A woman we put through OT 3 also thought it a waste of time, but she changed from an argumentitive bitch, always prickly and fighting, into someone who was just a pleasure to have around, helpful and useful, and far more "herself".

>>And I was told I was not clear despite having had fantastic gain of OT 4, and put back onto Dianetics, but the difference was that after I had spent some time in the wilderness, more or less having decided to question Scientology, I came back to reading the Tech Vols and R & D, and then a friend Peter Sparshot who was an old Saint Hiller, reviewed my folder and found some hours for me in it, and within ten minutes after a correction list was run based around an origination I was making, I got the ep of the Clear Check on the first ask of the question that followed<<

Cool, Peter really knew his stuff. I considered him a friend as well.

>> And then I was given OK by RTC to go back onto OT levels<<

I'm glad I don't need RTC approval to do anything.

>>I have to wonder why experienced auditors were so willingly discarded when GAT came in, and indeed there is a web page on the numbers of declares of Class X11 auditors originally trained by Ron as well as another on the declares of former staff at Saint Hill which makes you wonder. Well you would wonder if there was a suppressive intent to get rid of people<<

You need to wonder if there is a suppressive intent? What else can it be? There is a section of the Ron's org that consider DM has been taken over by Xenu, and while I don't fully agree, I can see why they can think that. And it's not just Class XIIs thathave been declaired, back in '82/83 some 650 peole directly tech or admin trained by LRH were also declared just after DM came into power.

>>Indeed I was thinking of making a post about purges, just as a side note, I have I am afraid written KRs about others when we had purges in the past, and I can see how relatively green staff, can sabotage people higher on the bridge than them and with more policy and tech knowledge than them<<

Any heiracial system is open to such abuses, from Nazi Germany to the CoS.

>>Clear and OT are theta states, so don't apply hidden standards to them<<

Exactly.

>>You can't understand the OT levels until you do them as there is an increase in theta perception and a change in beingness<<

100%!

Regards, Allen
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yea !

It's partly to do with being in the right place with the right people doing the right thing. A charitable, compassionate, open-minded attitude towards others and life in general. Doing what you love to do, giving and receiving love without reserve. It's not about re-shuffling the contents of the mind per Hubbard's ideas. People are about much more than mind. It requires daily rededication and alignment. The most important thing is kindness. Not needing to be first. Has to be created and accepted in every moment. Just what I have learned.

Yes, yes. :thumbsup:
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
LOL

Mystic that is probably what saved my ass in Scn. I never bought it. That is why I find such discussions quaint. The only definition of clear I can come up with is: "The end phenomenon of clear is depositing the mark's last cent into the bank account of L Ron Hubbard, the Turd."

LOL :bravo:
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

You need to wonder if there is a suppressive intent? What else can it be? There is a section of the Ron's org that consider DM has been taken over by Xenu, and while I don't fully agree, I can see why they can think that.

-snip-

The first Ron's Org SP Declare I ever read was the one on L. Ron Hubbard Jr. (Nibs). It was in a notebook owned by the person who is currently the Senior C/S for Ron's Orgs in the USA:

"Sector Ethics Order:

"Ron De Wolfe, alias Nibs Hubbard, alias L. Ron Hubbard Junior

"...He has recently come under direct influence of the infamous suppressive implanter known as Xenu, subject of Ethics Order No. 1 (written in 1967 by Elron Elray)...

"Astar Paramejgian

"Deputy Sector Commander"


The use of "alias" for dramatic effect is another echo of L. Ron Hubbard, whose (perceived) enemies were invariably communists, criminals, or sex perverts, for example, according to the founder of Scientology, his 2nd wife was a Russian spy, sent in to run a Covert Operation on Dianetics:

"Sara Komkovadamanov, alias Northrup..."
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Oh Lord. Astar.....not L something or other? I thought all the galactic commanders were L's. Like the warrior angels who were the bringers of light in the Old Testament....they all had 'el' in their names.

I want to point out that when I was at the AAC in Santa Barbara in 1983 that David Mayo would often put individuals on R6 EW if he thought he could without heavily invalidating or upsetting them. At that time he believed one could much benefit from this action. I asked if I might have a hand at it and he said NO... cases are different. :confused2: It seems to me that the consensus after all the Natural Clear declares was that many needed to be more 'separated out' from the body and the bank before achieving much on higher levels. I watched for 3 months as clients came in all claiming the state of Clear. There was much walking on eggs and resentment amongst staff over the fact that one had to tread lightly with the subject. Ken Urquhart had to start more than one session with the C/S making the statement that the it didn't look like the person had really gone Clear, and then checking for any upset. Daring. It seems he was much more serious THEN than with his later % of arsenic and rat poop analogy. I guess his disillusionment came later.

I had several tete a' tetes about case phenomena with David in private. I do feel he was by far a brilliant and intuitive man who had a great grasp of the subject he loved so dearly. He shared information readily if you could ask the right questions. If you had the intelligence to pose the query you were bright enough to grasp the answers. He did not keep secrets from you because you were not on the right level.
 
Last edited:

x-x

Patron with Honors
The Freezone also uses David Mayo by presenting Mayo's views from the early 1980s - carefully avoiding his later views, particularly his August 1986 interview http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm, where he mentioned Hubbard's statement that he [Hubbard] had "an insatiable lust for power and money."

)

Well I read the issue you refer to, and I saw that Mayo brought LRH back to life with assists, and that he CS'd his case. He also makes other positive comments, but you could expect him to be embittered having been declared. It really depends what you do with the money, there is other evidence that LRH had relatively frugal tastes, and after his death his estate was mostly left to the Church. So was it for Scientology projects? I think so.
 

x-x

Patron with Honors
Without knowing it, his senior tech can be found in this booklet http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg, and it overrides all the loose-ends.

Turns out that the loose-ends are just a medium, used as a means to an end. Hubbard's system of mental-healing only needs to "work" up to a point, since it was only a front and a medium, or means, for something else.

That something else was inadvertently revealed in his 1938 'Excalibur' letter and in his 1946 'Affirmations':

"I have high hopes of smashing my name into history... [so] that it will take a legendary form... That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned."

"Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."


I think you have got this wrong. The Brainwashing manual was to alert Scientologists to the infiltration of the West. I often thought this was to present an acceptable face in the Cold War, however in the early 50's he criticises communist and capitalist alike.
 

Doom

Lurking.
I think you have got this wrong. The Brainwashing manual was to alert Scientologists to the infiltration of the West. I often thought this was to present an acceptable face in the Cold War, however in the early 50's he criticises communist and capitalist alike.
so he had overts on many countries? after all thats what the Tech says, Right?
 

x-x

Patron with Honors
Mayo was sent in by the psychs, eh? Not the FBI? Not the Martians? But the psychs? Okay.

Here's the thing. You don't become a Class XII auditor, Senior C/S Int for a decade or so, without knowing Scientology, do you? Ya think someone else might've sec checked him once or twice? Ya think they might have done a Clear Certainty Rundown on him? Ya think he might have had his eligibility checks? Are you saying that Scientology doesn't work, that sec checks don't work, that Clear Certainty Rundowns don't work, that Eligibility Checks don't work, and that Class XII Senior C/S Ints are clueless about tech?

Well my thoughts exactly.


SO ED 2344 INT 20 August 1983
BPI
All Scientologists
All Orgs and Missions
Field Auditors
Field Groups
THE STORY OF A SQUIRREL: DAVID MAYO
From time to time briefings are issued to Scientology staff and public so they can keep abreast of what is going on in the Church -- whether it concerns a new Org or Mission being opened in some country, an LRH book being translated into a new language, or some milestone in the crusade to get basic LRH standard tech being applied (and squirrel practices stamped out).

This is a briefing on a squirrel named David Mayo.
The following data is being released to you because, as a staff member or public in Scientology, you should be kept informed of such things and the actual facts made available to you.
–––––
Mayo was simply a bird dog. The definition of a bird dog is: “Somebody sent in by an enemy to mess things up.”* (LRH)
“The actual situation is that you had a bird dog right in the middle of the
control room: David Mayo. He was sabotaging execs by wrecking their
cases. None of this was by accident or incompetence. Of all the crazy,
cock-eyed sabotage I've ever seen, man, he was at it. He was not doing
Dn and Scn. He was just calling it that and using the patter. His obvious
intention was to wreck all cases of persons who could help others.”
(LRH)"....
(several more pages)

Cmdr Ray Mithoff
Snr C/S International
Authorized by
AVC International
for the
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
INTERNATIONAL

CSI:AVCI:RM:iw
Copyright © 1983
by the Church of Scientology
International
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED


This seems rather abrupt for a guy who has audited the founder and saved his life, as well as CS'd him through the discovery of Nots and Solo Nots.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm

Was Mithoff acting for DM, he seems to be in with him. Was the plan to get rid of all terminals with greater ethics presence than DM? Was the LRH quote correct, or forged? Was it the result of a 3p?

I think Mayo need correction on his own certainty of being clear, however I believe he has wealth of experience. My concern is that we are at a point where in a few short years the old timers will be out of the body and perhaps gone from the planet. It is a point of generational change.

x-x

By the way I edited my first reply to you to put Mayo as the source of the quote I used.
 

x-x

Patron with Honors
I had several tete a' tetes about case phenomena with David in private. I do feel he was by far a brilliant and intuitive man who had a great grasp of the subject he loved so dearly. He shared information readily if you could ask the right questions. If you had the intelligence to pose the query you were bright enough to grasp the answers. He did not keep secrets from you because you were not on the right level.


This is the mode of beingness of the Saint Hill Grad of the sixties, although the GPMs have been put into another context by later tech developments, I think there is a lot of technical experience and case gain to these people.

And also of course that was when training was the route, now look at the publications and its all book and tape course completions, which while being of great value, (leaving aside the .01% of edits to the current versions), is not the same as training. Then LRH spoke to groups of Auditors, that hasn't recovered since the Mission network was disestablished. There is a little bit of co audits, such as Objective processes, and some on Solo Nots train to Class 5 in order to get the discount, but the route through the Briefing course is a trickle at best. One of the problems is the technical skill to audit Dianetics changed with NED, when I came in in the seventies many people trained on the HSDC and co audited. The cheap way up the Bridge is to train, the way for Orgs to make money is actually to train, but they are mostly clinics for pcs.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Well I read the issue you refer to, and I saw that Mayo brought LRH back to life with assists, and that he CS'd his case. He also makes other positive comments, but you could expect him to be embittered having been declared. It really depends what you do with the money, there is other evidence that LRH had relatively frugal tastes, and after his death his estate was mostly left to the Church. So was it for Scientology projects? I think so.

David Mayo was not "disgruntled" or "bitter." That's nonsense.

Hubbard wanted the money because he was obsessed with money, which was analogous to life force in his mind (Hubbard stole both life force [people's vitality] and [their] money); he wanted it for protection (in many forms, including bribes and hush money); and he wanted it for legal trusts to ensure the preservation of his name and image - an objective about as lofty as a graffiti vandals desire that his spray-painted logo on a difficult to reach Freeway overpass endure.

Hubbard's name-preservation, fan-club, and monument-building projects are ongoing.

He had convinced Scientologists that only by preserving his name and protecting his image, could Scientology's popularity be ensured and, as a result, so Scientologists were led to believe, Mankind would progress on the Bridge to Total Freedom, avoid the agony of the dwindling spiral, and enjoy the pleasures of Operating Thetan. LRH = pleasure. No LRH = pain.

My my, how Pavlovian.

But then again, using "enemy tactics" on Scientologists was standard operating procedure for the founder of Scientology.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I think you have got this wrong. The Brainwashing manual was to alert Scientologists to the infiltration of the West. I often thought this was to present an acceptable face in the Cold War, however in the early 50's he criticises communist and capitalist alike.

The 1955 'BWM' was a propaganda gimmick, a hoax, and a lie, and ten years later became the blueprint for Scientology. (Do a search on capitalism in 'BWMP' to see how Hubbard was willing to exploit that 'button' when he saw it as advantageous. If you're curious.)

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=414261&postcount=40

Not only did Hubbard lie to his own followers about his concocted Russian manual, a decade later, he began using most of its ideas and methods on them. http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Back to the subject of Clear:
When the Issues came out about Dn Clear, PL Clear, Natural Clear, etc I was auditing in all the HGCs in LA.
As a Cl 8, I was assigned to do the first Clear checks, which was a DofP ( director of processing ) interview. There was no 'stop' on the sttestation line for those who said that they were Clear. They went directly to Examiner and attested.
It was terribly invalidating to those of us who had done the Clearing Course, some of us had been in COS for more than 20/25 years subjecting ourselves to whatever 'tech' was in vogue at the times.Too bad. Suck it up.
There were several people ( one whom I remember because of the volume of people that she brought in off the street was dawn Forguson) who were body routing people off the street, people who had never been Scn'ists, who had no clue what Clear was, but were allowed to attest to the State.
Then the DCSI came out. It was better for weeding out the street Clears because it asked specific questions about the State of Clear, and required the Clear "cog" to be voiced, and a floating tone arm to be produced.
It wasn't all that much better because a lot of Auditors didn't know what a floating tone arm was. Nor did some of the Case Supes know what the "cog" is.
We were told to cirle the Clear 'cog' , so that the C/s could quickly determine if the PC had voiced it. In those days, before the Internet and disaffected Scn'ists, the Clear 'cog" was secret. I asked a couple C/Ss what they wanted to see as being the "cog". ( when I attested to Clear, I had no idea that every single person who had done the Clearing Course had voiced the cog that they were 'mocking up their bank'. I had voiced it in protest since I had known since the Clearing Congress that I was 'mocking it up', and I was pissed that the CC had led me to that 'cognition'. I was in mystery as to what I had said that the C/S had decided that I could attest. Whatever).
So C/s at LA Org told me that the 'cognition" was stated on a certain HCOB. I asked to see it and was told that it was confidential. I said 'so you want me to circle a cognition, but I am not allowed to see what it is?' Then I told C/s that I was apparently the only person in their Org who was Clear, and to show me the bloody HCOB. Which she did.
Another time I was delivering to a young woman who was obviously Clear, ( I can see 'bank' (pictures) on most PCs, and I saw none on her), so I looked thru her folder and saw that she had originated the Clear cog some years before at her local Org. I 'sugested "attest?". C/s came back 'not Clear'. I took the folder all the way to Apollo cramming officer who confided in me that the C/S had been crammed for adjudicating Clear attests for 'unclear PCs' and was afraid to C/S anyone for Clear status since that cramming cycle.
Post is too long, and prolly boring your knickers off. I'll get offa here. These vignettes might give you some idea of the overwhelm that existed on the Clear Attest line when the Issue first came out, and explains some of the reasons for cancellations of the State.

Challenge
 
Post is too long, and prolly boring your knickers off. I'll get offa here.

Au Contraire! Challenge. This referenced post was one of the best on the thread!


These vignettes might give you some idea of the overwhelm that existed on the Clear Attest line when the Issue first came out, and explains some of the reasons for cancellations of the State.

Challenge

Very definitely. I'd love to hear more such instances.


Mark A. Baker
 

Mystic

Crusader
Being "clear" of any and all spewings by hubbard-thing is better.

This one isn't even clear of deep hate:

6rpr3c.jpg
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
The first Ron's Org SP Declare I ever read was the one on L. Ron Hubbard Jr. (Nibs). It was in a notebook owned by the person who is currently the Senior C/S for Ron's Orgs in the USA:

"Sector Ethics Order:

"Ron De Wolfe, alias Nibs Hubbard, alias L. Ron Hubbard Junior

"...He has recently come under direct influence of the infamous suppressive implanter known as Xenu, subject of Ethics Order No. 1 (written in 1967 by Elron Elray)...

"Astar Paramejgian

"Deputy Sector Commander"



The use of "alias" for dramatic effect is another echo of L. Ron Hubbard, whose (perceived) enemies were invariably communists, criminals, or sex perverts, for example, according to the founder of Scientology, his 2nd wife was a Russian spy, sent in to run a Covert Operation on Dianetics:

"Sara Komkovadamanov, alias Northrup..."

NB LRH was a third, Nibs, a fourth. Therefore my reference to L Ron Hubbard,
the TURD.
 
Being "clear" of any and all spewings by hubbard-thing is better.

This one isn't even clear of deep hate:

Nor for that matter is "...spewings by hubbard-thing..." exactly indicative of a complete lack of animosity on the speaker's part. :whistling:



Mark A. Baker
 
Top