COGNITION

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Always the gentleman, Michel. Thanks. Everyone here deserves respect when they first start posting here with questions. You showed that.

Hi Ridge,

I will try to answer your 2nd question.

"My second questions is, do the cogn.'s errase mass? I speak about engramic mass, or misemotions and reactive patterns?"

In Dianetics it is said that an engram is erased when you find the postulate which is at the begining of the engram or engram chain. At that precise point the engram will erase.

Now, the Clear cognition is:

CLEAR OCCURS WHEN ONE STOPS MOCKING UP BANK, OR
REALIZES THAT HE IS MOCKING IT UP OR HAS BEEN MOCKING IT UP.

Ref: HCOB 24 Sep 78R, Iss III DIANETIC CLEAR

Now, take your best tech dictionary and fully world clear "MOCK UP".

Then, take your own decision.

Grades and light recall processes might be fine to improve one's life.

Unless, one is permanently oppressed by Reges "to buy more" auditing.

Michel.
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
You have posted on an EX Scientology site for people who have realised that Scientology is a cult and Hubbard was a con man who PRETENDED to research but in fact just built up authority for his notions about the mind. Scientology has caused us all a lot of combined loss and grief so look elsewhere for postive information because you won't find it here.

Actually, he should read The Rules and FAQ to find out what the site is about and what is allowed here according to the owner, Emma.

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
Oh I'm sorry that you can't confront me.. :bigcry:

Ridge,

If you are actually a Scientologist, what you just did is a clear violation of HCO PL "PTS Type A Handling" which clearly warns against using Scientology abusively like that.

If you are not actually a Scientologist, then you are doing a miserable job trolling.

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Here's a little more on the topic of "Clear," particularly "Dianetic Clear":

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=391210&postcount=37

And remember "Natural Clear"? Turns out, according to Hubbard, there were likely only four on the entire planet. The below link contains David Mayo's 1991 article on 'Clear' from both the old 'Free Spirit' and 'IVy' magazines:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=363295&postcount=5

Having examined (when the idea was new) a lot of pc folders of people who've "gone Clear on Dianetics," and having, at the time, not made the transition to accepting as a definite and certain Hubbardian factual fact that these thousands of newly discovered pcs were indeed "Clear," I was uncomfortable with the mostly excited but extremely fragile mind-sets of these new "Clears."

To state it in Scientologese, it seemed, at the time, to me, that a lot of by-passed cases were being hurried onto the "OT" levels ("up lines," and out of Missions).

This made a lot of money for Hubbard at the time, and resulted in various attempted handlings (of the resulting mess) later. First came David Mayo's 'Harmonics of Clear' HCOB, which, to put it mildly, displeased Hubbard and pretty much ended the era of David Mayo in Scientology, then came other "tech developments" about "Dianetic Clears" having no "mental image picture case" BUT still having troublesome and out-of-control contra-survival postulates, and therefore needing the "False Purpose Rundown," and, of course, there was the NOTs case, of which new "Clears" knew little or nothing, but somehow where expected to discern "their" case from the "upper level case," and discern their "mental image pictures" from their (unknown to them) 'BT's" "mental image picture" case, and this still left unresolved their (own) "bank," which, in some definitions (of DN Clear) they no longer had, yet weren't those out-of-control (after DN Clear) postulates part of their (own) "bank"?

As for the "Clear cognition," first the idea that "Clear" was simply a realization, which was the result of a "cognition," and not (really) a state of being or an ability, made it fragile and easily "invalidated." From my (admittedly limited and now out-of-date) observation, a person who had the (DN) "Clear cognition" could have it after having "erased his DN case" (that being the part that was "keyed-in," resulting in, supposedly, "keyed out Clear," which, per 1978, was considered "Clear"), and thus any further DN auditing required that he/she "mock up" his "DN case," at which point the person would realize (encouraged by the new "discoveries" from Hubbard) that he was "mocking up his own DN case," or "mental image picture case," or whatever (it changed over time); or the person simply decided that he/she was mocking up his "DN case" (by one of the shifting descriptions of what that was), and thus was "Dn Clear."

It might be useful, for someone attempting to sort out "Clear," to consult materials from the 1957 period, when the subject was at peak simplicity, or one can move out of any and all Hubbardian boxes, bubbles, or envelopes, which is possibly the ultimate and true state of "Clear." :)

Re-reading this today, "Reactive mind" would be better substituted for "DN case." "Mental Image Picture case" was also used for a while. None of it made much sense although, once told, many Scientologists were pleased with the new identity of being "Dianetic Clear," which was said to be somehow equivalent to "Scientology (CC) Clear," as the person then would skip "Power," "R6EW" and "CC." This happy acceptance of the latest "breakthrough" (which contradicted the statement from 1970 that only 2% go Clear on DN and these would still do "PP, R6ew, and CC") was not surprising since, years earlier, Scientologists "made sense" out of Hubbard's abandonment of "actual GPMs" with no explanation, and the substitution of "Implant GPMs."

Gads. What a mess.
 
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Mystic

Crusader
Discussion about a thing Hubbard-thing called "clear" which does not exist is rather ... ah ... yeah, all those.
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'd like to once and for all clear the plate on being clear because there is no such provable thing: one must agree that there is a reactive mind from which to be cleared from.

Here little fishies... here's a nice big fat worm called clear... come on fishie fishies... you'll have no more reactive mind and live happily ever


GOT YA!!!!!!!!!!!

CALL THE REG's...

we hooked a biggin' this time!!!
 

Ridge

Patron
Ridge,

If you are actually a Scientologist, what you just did is a clear violation of HCO PL "PTS Type A Handling" which clearly warns against using Scientology abusively like that.

If you are not actually a Scientologist, then you are doing a miserable job trolling.

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.

I'm not a scientologist!
And what are you? Divisor of Justice?
 

Ridge

Patron
Here's a little more on the topic of "Clear," particularly "Dianetic Clear":

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=391210&postcount=37

And remember "Natural Clear"? Turns out, according to Hubbard, there were likely only four on the entire planet. The below link contains David Mayo's 1991 article on 'Clear' from both the old 'Free Spirit' and 'IVy' magazines:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=363295&postcount=5

Having examined (when the idea was new) a lot of pc folders of people who've "gone Clear on Dianetics," and having, at the time, not made the transition to accepting as a definite and certain Hubbardian factual fact that these thousands of newly discovered pcs were indeed "Clear," I was uncomfortable with the mostly excited but extremely fragile mind-sets of these new "Clears."

To state it in Scientologese, it seemed, at the time, to me, that a lot of by-passed cases were being hurried onto the "OT" levels ("up lines," and out of Missions).

This made a lot of money for Hubbard at the time, and resulted in various attempted handlings (of the resulting mess) later. First came David Mayo's 'Harmonics of Clear' HCOB, which, to put it mildly, displeased Hubbard and pretty much ended the era of David Mayo in Scientology, then came other "tech developments" about "Dianetic Clears" having no "mental image picture case" BUT still having troublesome and out-of-control contra-survival postulates, and therefore needing the "False Purpose Rundown," and, of course, there was the NOTs case, of which new "Clears" knew little or nothing, but somehow where expected to discern "their" case from the "upper level case," and discern their "mental image pictures" from their (unknown to them) 'BT's" "mental image picture" case, and this still left unresolved their (own) "bank," which, in some definitions (of DN Clear) they no longer had, yet weren't those out-of-control (after DN Clear) postulates part of their (own) "bank"?

As for the "Clear cognition," first the idea that "Clear" was simply a realization, which was the result of a "cognition," and not (really) a state of being or an ability, made it fragile and easily "invalidated." From my (admittedly limited and now out-of-date) observation, a person who had the (DN) "Clear cognition" could have it after having "erased his DN case" (that being the part that was "keyed-in," resulting in, supposedly, "keyed out Clear," which, per 1978, was considered "Clear"), and thus any further DN auditing required that he/she "mock up" his "DN case," at which point the person would realize (encouraged by the new "discoveries" from Hubbard) that he was "mocking up his own DN case," or "mental image picture case," or whatever (it changed over time); or the person simply decided that he/she was mocking up his "DN case" (by one of the shifting descriptions of what that was), and thus was "Dn Clear."

It might be useful, for someone attempting to sort out "Clear," to consult materials from the 1957 period, when the subject was at peak simplicity, or one can move out of any and all Hubbardian boxes, bubbles, or envelopes, which is possibly the ultimate and true state of "Clear." :)

Re-reading this today, "Reactive mind" would be better substituted for "DN case." "Mental Image Picture case" was also used for a while. None of it made much sense although, once told, many Scientologists were pleased with the new identity of being "Dianetic Clear," which was said to be somehow equivalent to "Scientology (CC) Clear," as the person then would skip "Power," "R6EW" and "CC." This happy acceptance of the latest "breakthrough" (which contradicted the statement from 1970 that only 2% go Clear on DN and these would still do "PP, R6ew, and CC") was not surprising since, years earlier, Scientologists "made sense" out of Hubbard's abandonment of "actual GPMs" with no explanation, and the substitution of "Implant GPMs."

Gads. What a mess.

Veda, wow! I can see that you know a lot of about scientology. Thank you so much for your kindness and labor to explain me. Much of the things are now clear to me, but I still have some things that are advanced t me. I found those Time Track Bulletins, so I'll read them.
Thank you again!
 

JBTrendy

Patron with Honors
Cognitions

Okay, here's some more response.

And I want regular reports on your auditing, which should be at least 5 days a week. (Outside the C of S, I audited, on average 6 or 7 days a week.)

Probably any uncovering of previously buried mental content would amount to a revelation, or "cognition." (Known before Dianetics as 'Abreaction'.)

In 'Book One', as I recall, "reduction" (or some such) of the engram was emphasized, with the engram or secondary engram being re-filed in the analytical mind from its previous place in the reactive mind - having been refiled in the analytical mind, it would no longer have power over the person.

Later, meters were used, and eventually "FNs" became important. Somewhere around the 1960s (See 1963 'Time Track' Bulletins), then - if you can find it - the 1968 through mid 1970s 'Hubbard Standard Dianetics Course' Pack. Easier to find would be a copy of the now out of print book, 'Dianetics Today', which is a pretty good representation of pre-NED (1978/79) Dianetics, and includes a bunch of Dianetic sessions in the back, as C/Sed by Hubbard.

By that time, the EP was FN, Cog, VGIs. (And it was a given that any "postulate" or "computation" would also have lost its power over the person, since that would be included in the cognition, naturally.)

Then, with New Era Dianetics, the idea that one should get the "postulate off" was added. So, a person has the EP of a Dianetic session, has an FN, cog, and VGIs, and extroverts, coming essentially out of session, and then, if the DN auditor decides that the "postulate" has not been "gotten off," the person is (as I recall from reading the materials) asked for the "postulate." What that achieves, I'm not sure, as the person would likely no longer be in session (looking inward at his DN case), and would, then, have to come up with (probably on a "think, think" level) an acceptable "postulate." And this - speculating, since I haven't used circa 1979 NED - would probably cause the FN (especially the "3 sweeps" version) to disappear - unless the person were a super well adjusted "smooth ball bearing"-type Scientologist who's always delighted no matter what.

So, the subject of DN changed over time, and, IMO, became top heavy with complexity by 1978, when Hubbard gave directions to his assistants to re-write the DN course, and began to push the idea of "Dianetic Clear" (Keyed out Clear, or just keyed-out on DN became "Clear," where previously "keyed out Clear" was not regarded as real "Clear.") with Hubbard's motivation for pushing DN Clear - according to former C/S International David Mayo - having to do with "PR and marketing."

Since the earlier unchanged DN bulletins disappeared, most post-1978/79 Scientologists don't know about the changes and just accept NED as the final word.

Suggest reading the 2 (I think there are 2) 1963 'Time Track' Bulletins, and getting a copy of 'DN Today'. Look on E-Bay, or in used book stores.

Reason: Hubbard was slightly less wacky before the 1977 FBI raids, and his 2nd (or 3rd?) nervous breakdown, than after.

Does that help?

Dear Veda,

I'm always happy to see you posting about technical matters and impressed with the accuracy and depth of your statements.

Looks like you succesfully qualed all of the Tech and probably evolved it to a whole new range of workability and efficiency. I'm pretty sure you did some breakthoughs up into the higher levels and wondered if you published your findings somewhere.

I just got onto the link of the reformist that calls himself the Pilot that you probably know as he's an old Saint Hiller too and here it is:

http://www.freewebs.com/techoutsidethecofs/reformpoints.htm

I guess that people of your calliber would be able to run a totally different show and that today's management would gain a lot to get inspired by your experience and wisdom. We could have a much brighter future than.

As far as Ridge is concern I'm pretty much along the lines of my fellow members here thinking that you're playing fool with us pretending you're such a very new Scientologist.

But in order to be of good company as I personally like to see as much people possible around so they can access freely to informations and communicate, I'll tell you this story about cognitions that trully are revelations in essence.

And that's the reason why Scientologists usually have a high forehead. It's because of the numerous cognitions they have on course or auditing. They often bang theyr forhead with theyr palm stating:

"Yeah, for sure I knew this" :duh:

Didn't LRH himself said that he discovered Scientology. It's more the part that he invented that has to be properly reviewed in order to get the whole subject acceptable again.

All2U :yes:
 
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