Coherence of Scientology

Veda

Sponsor
The upper ten thousand of Earth

"Scientology and Dianetics have included the upper ten thousand of Earth very easily. I'm not trying to give you a swelled head. It's true. You had brains enough to know that you didn't know."

L. Ron Hubbard, from The State of Man Congress
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
The thing that pulls it all together is that L. Ron Hubbard is the first and only being to solve the riddles of existence in this universe.

If you don't understand this then, well - you have misunderstoods.

Scientologists agree that the first sentence above is true (regardless of what Mark A. Baker says).

And Scientologist also agree that "agreement is reality". So since they all agree - :thumbsup: - it's true.

That's it really - L. Ron Hubbard is SOURCE.

Done deal.

Got a problem?

Look for your fucking MU.

Everything else is Dev-T.
 
It's freaking brainwashing indoctrination!!! :no: Cult, cult, CULT!!! :duh: :omg:

Please wake up, lurkers! :yes:

You can really improve conditions for yourself and those around you when you get beyond this shallow, conscribed thinking! Free yourselves to really LOOK at what Corporate Scientology creates in the world...how can you support it in good conscience? :bigcry:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Looking at this thread made me think of something.

I think this statement is true in some strange way:

The world and universe provides exactly and accordingly for EVERY need.

It seems to me that certain people need and require certains things, and for these unique people, Scientology has come along and manifested itself to provide the satisfaction of these various needs.

Until these sort of people either evolve or make a sudden leap in genetic mutation, their natural urges and desires will continue to demand and facilitate the manifestation of over-simplistic, ultra-controlling, cognitve-dissonance-forming belief systems as found in Scientology.

Scientology fills a void, and satisfies a real need for certain types of people. Who and what exactly are "those types of people"? You will have to look and make up your own mind on THAT one! :yes:

But, as long as THEY exist, then and only then will people like Hubbard be able to continue to come along and sucker the living daylights out of a certain segment of the population. Realize that not everybody falls for it, and actually, very FEW actually fall for it big time. Instead of looking so much at Scientology, it might be more interesting, at least for a brief moment, to ask what exact "type" of person satisfies the necessary requirements that puts him or her in the "state of mind" that allows him or her to become susceptible to the lures of something like Scientology. What variables and conditions are involved that make any person far more likely to "fall for the scam"?

Analyze it from a strict sociological point of view, with some added time and distance between those doing the examining and the "phenomenon known as Scientology in the 21st century".

++++++++
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dr Robert Oppenheimer warned us in 1955 that

the threat posed to humanity by the atomic bomb is trivial compared to the threat posed by the misuse of the breakthroughs in psychology - of controlling men's minds....

LINK for recovering scientologists
Link to Index


George Estabrooks, the father of militarized hypnosis, warned us in 1947 that

the only defense against covert hypnosis is to familiarize oneself with the techniques being used
LINK

It is not an accident that the word hubbard used
for that thing you must get rid of,

"THE REACTIVE MIND"

HE also called it

"BANK"

which just happens to be where you keep your money
Is that why the registrar was so hard to resist?

You simply must get rid of it!!


Which is also a fine illustration of the use of BLACK DIANETICS
LINK

.
 
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Looking at this thread made me think of something.

I think this statement is true in some strange way:

The world and universe provides exactly and accordingly for EVERY need. ...

Perhaps, but somebody appears to have truly f#ck#d up the delivery system.


Mark A. Baker :coolwink:
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
The central core that holds the subject together is:

We are spiritual beings mired in meat bodies.

Through communication and taking responsibility we can free ourselves from this mire and regain our true spiritual natures, if we go about it in the right way.


And that is all there is to it. Any subject which has these as core principles can validly be regarded as a form of Scientology. Hubbard opened the door a chink. Unfortunately he threw some curves into the mix and so the CofS failed in its intended purpose. However, others have picked up the ball and taken the subject to greater heights.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
The central core that holds the subject together is:

We are spiritual beings mired in meat bodies.

In my opinion that is the view from inside the stinking onion of scientology. This is nothing more than one example of Hubbard telling people what they want to hear, to gain their agreement, in order to gain acceptance of a toxic mix mash of old psychological techniques, crafted into a machine to create willing slaves.

From "Some Principles of Mass Persuasion" (c 1949):

"3. To induce a given action by mass persuasion, this action must be seen as a path to some goal that he has.

3a. a given action will be accepted as a path to a goal only if the connections fits the person's larger cognitive structure.

3b. The more goals which are seen as attainable by a single path, the more likely it is that person will take that path."

Through communication and taking responsibility we can free ourselves from this mire and regain our true spiritual natures, if we go about it in the right way.


And that is all there is to it. Any subject which has these as core principles can validly be regarded as a form of Scientology. Hubbard opened the door a chink. Unfortunately he threw some curves into the mix and so the CofS failed in its intended purpose. However, others have picked up the ball and taken the subject to greater heights.

"4. To induce a given action, an appropriate cognitive and motivational system must gain control of the person's behavior at a particular point in time.

4a. The more specifically defined the path of action to a goal (in an accepted motivational structure), the more likely it is that the structure will gain control of behavior.

4b. The more specifically a path of action is located in time, the more likely it is that the structure will gain control of behavior."

Scientology is nothing more that a subset of the not so well known advances in psychology that Dr Robert Oppenhiemer warned us about in 1955, in which Mr Oppenheimer described the danger to society of misuse of those discoveries in psychology as making the threat of the Atomic bomb to society seem "trivial" < he used the word trivial. LINK
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Perhaps, but somebody appears to have truly f#ck#d up the delivery system.

Mark A. Baker :coolwink:

Not at all. The "delivery system" is a perfectly operating mechanism that faithfully MIRRORS who and what you are, down to your every last detailed need & desire.

I read somewhere once the idea that YOUR world mirrors EXACTLY who YOU are. In other words, what YOU see and experience EXACTLY reflects who and what YOU ARE. In other terms, the world you see and experience, AS YOU see and experience it, EMANATES entirely from YOU.

This can also be thought of in terms of Einstein's theory of relativity applied to consciousness. You, as the observer, ENTIRELY DETERMINE your experiences of all-that-is, simply by "looking in a certain way". At a very deep level, one can't actually participate with any reality without affecting it on a raw perception level. The universe, world, and life any person sees and experiences is heavily conditioned by the "state" of the observer. In very real terms, the state of the observer DETERMINES how and what you experience as life for you. The observer greatly influences WHAT is observed. The two are inextricably connected - sort of like Yin and Yang.

In Einstein's theory, the observer didn't "create" the raw stuff of the universe, and there is no need to consider that you or I did either (other than due to some personal philosophical bias), BUT the location and motion of the observer VERY MUCH DETERMINE EXACTLY WHAT IS SEEN & EXPERIENCED. And, every observer sees and experiences a different "slice of the pie". All are "right", as determined by the STATE OF THE OBSERVER. The truth is the "whole pie", but no unique observer can or will EVER grasp the "whole pie". The "truth" is the totality of all viewpoints taken over all space and time. As I have said before, I have the suspicion (not a belief) that what I just described is "God's" way of experiencing His/Her/It's creation, through the near-infinite isolated limited viewpoints known as you and I.

But you DO have "free will", and your real freedom lies in your ability to chose from WHERE you want to LOOK (psychologically). Because, as you change your package of considerations/agreements/opinions/beliefs, so do you thus change, in exact accordance, YOUR perception and experience of the universe. THAT is the theoretical basis of all magickal activities, visualization and afffirmation techniques. I think that it involves a notion that could use some serious looking into.

Simply, just as it is totally and unequivocally true from a raw Physics view of Einstein, that when you change the state of the observer you also VERY MUCH change the perception and experience of reality, so also, in psychological and spiritual terms, when you change the state of the observer - YOU - you also entirely and unequivocally change your perception and experience of the universe. You never actually change the raw stuff of the universe, but you DO very much alter how you see and experience it. The possibilities are endless! Unless of course, you choose to think and believe otherwise. There is no absolute anything when it comes to a viewpoint - it is all relative. To get beyond the relative one must abandon ALL viewpoints and all participation with "out there". Some meditations and occult drills are designed to do that. It is cool, for a change anyway - slipping back into eternity every once in awhile can be wonderfully therepeutic. :happydance:

But, below THAT, it is entirely "relative", based on WHO YOU ARE, and HOW YOU VIEW. "You" are a unique bundle of considerations, agreements, experiences, and opinions, all affected by natural ability and physical sense limitations, and AS THAT, as this unique "observer", you EXTRACT OUT OF INFINITY a specific and unique set of perceptions and experiences based entirely on WHO and WHAT YOU ARE.

I will say it one more time and burn it into your brain:

"You" are a unique bundle of considerations, agreements, experiences, and opinions, all affected by natural ability and physical sense limitations, and AS THAT, as this unique "observer", you EXTRACT OUT OF INFINITY a specific and unique set of perceptions and experiences based entirely on WHO and WHAT YOU ARE.

You have YOUR life because YOU are YOU! If you want to "change your life", first change yourself! Many people try to change conditions by only focusing on the details of the environment "out there". All of that shit from Hubbard about "controlling the environment" and "expanding ones sphere of responsibility and cause". That approach is wrong. Very wrong. It is in fact ass-backwards. YOU are the "problem", and NOT the "world".

Strangely, just like Hubbard said, within the above context, you ARE entirely responsible for what you see and experience.

What you see and what you experience has FAR MORE to do with YOU than with any inherent "truth out there in the Universe". Just like with Einstein, there is no "experience" possible for any aspect of the universe until a VIEWPOINT chooses to LOOK for a very unique, specific and LIMITED position. Please grasp THAT point. There is NO EXPERIENCE possible without the (arbitrary) viewpoint. And, once any viewpoint appears, it GREATLY conditions, limits and even determines WHAT is experienced. You and I each always ONLY experience a tiny part of the big picture.

But, you CAN learn and understand about THAT. Sadly, few teach THAT. And, THAT does enable a grander and far bigger picture than any limited philosophy, ideology, religion or set of beliefs. A person who truly grasps THAT naturally becomes quite a bit more humble, and naturally comes to respect and appreciate all others in this intricate web of seemingly isolated experiences.

The "position" of the observer can be "psychological", "intellectual", and based on many more things such as considerations, fixed ideas, beliefs, and agreements. And, yes also, based on the IMAGINATION - which really throws a wrench into everything because YOU, as a creative being, able to "create by fiat", can affect what and how you see by IMAGINATION too. There are MANY factors in this thing known as "experience of reality". FAR MORE than Hubbard delineated in his kindergarten system of philosophy.

I hope that expands upon the idea Mark. The delivery system is perfect. The world will always mirror exactly who and what YOU are. It can be no other way, at least not at this current stage of personal evolution as a human being on planet Earth (but on that I am only guessing).

+++++++++

---------- Post added at 11:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 AM ----------

The central core that holds the subject together is:

We are spiritual beings mired in meat bodies.

Through communication and taking responsibility we can free ourselves from this mire and regain our true spiritual natures, if we go about it in the right way.

And that is all there is to it. Any subject which has these as core principles can validly be regarded as a form of Scientology. Hubbard opened the door a chink. Unfortunately he threw some curves into the mix and so the CofS failed in its intended purpose. However, others have picked up the ball and taken the subject to greater heights.

It is a very big assumption indeed that we are "spiritual beings mired in meat bodies". I would say that people who think and consider that to be true actually CREATE their own trap to then be "mired in". Cripes, be VERY careful what you accept as true, agree with and believe! It will always affect you.

I have recently taken to allowing a different set of considerations about all of this. I do this from time to time, living on my little mountain in the woods, and I experiment by adopting new and different systems of considerations - it is interesting to see what happens. And things DO happen.

Anyway, here it is:

1. There is no spiritual/MEST division or distinction EXCEPT as YOU choose to imagine. I currently walk out and see "all-that-is" as an integrated whole. I decided that there is "no place to try to get to" other than as I consider and choose to exist by my own imagination. So, I am entirely at peace, right wherever I find myself, and I actually EXPERIENCE the world around me as an organic combination of the spiritual with MEST. IT is all the SAME stuff (unless you choose to see it differently). So, I no longer entertain the DUMB notion that I am a "spirit trapped in a MEST body".

2. There is no interaction with any aspect of life without "adding to it". I have done extensive drills where I slowly remove each and every consideration from some experience. I get to a point where I am there with only random undefined raw energy. It loses all form and meaning, because it is entirely myself who ADDS that to the mix. YOU create and add form and meaning through your MIND.

So, I realized that as long as I choose to stay and be here, that I have to ADD something to make it have "meaning" and "reality" for me. There are a very great many possibilities for HOW and WHAT you choose to ADD to the mix. But, you will always ADD something. Most people are entirely unaware of any of that. They don't grasp that one is actually FREE to add differently. Of course, things like Scientology severely limit and define WHAT you "add to the mix". That leads me to the next part.

3. You ADD to the mix through your imagination. You use your inherent natural capability to CREATE. So, I add as much love, appreciation, admiration and understanding as possible every step along the way. I CREATE those things in my life with others. We all create and add something, but it is largely unconscious to us and on automatic.

Metaphorically speaking, the same creative impulse that imagined the entire Universe into existance also runs through YOUR veins, albeit to a lesser degree. So, don't ignore that YOU can also create beautiful and wonderful things, effects, relationships, art, etc. You are going to create something no matter what, just by going along with your own life flow as determined by your own unique life factors - so instead, make a conscious choice in the matter. Hubbard was onto something when he stated in "The Joy of Creating" issue, that it might be a good idea to "splurge on it" (splurge on creating). It IS a good idea. A very good idea. But, please, do so far removed from the framework of organized KSW-RTC versions of Scientology.

Doing the above three things renders you a very different person indeed!

You can free yourself from just about anything by "changing your mind". See my previous write up on the relativity of viewpoints. Scientology fails miserably at "changing postulates". And it is ONLY by effectively changing postulates that you can truly change your personal experience of some aspect of reality. The world seems to change, but really, it is only YOU who changes. That is where Ghandi was coming from when he stated:

Be the change you want to see in the world.

Scientology, and many other philosophies, while pretending to "free" you actually just immerse you DEEPER into some aspect of limited viewpoint, because they concentrate on the BARRIERS. Hubbard didn't "start" anything. The "truth" has been there as long as the universe, and what I have just described in the last two posts may possibly say it better than all the effusive megalomaniacal rantings of Hubbard.

So what! Hubbard provided a path and "bridge". He wrote lots of books and spoke thousands of words in lectures. But, the path and "bridge" don't lead anywhere useful or valuable (outside the imagination of a FEW very isolated souls).

+++++++++
 
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uniquemand

Unbeliever
The world and universe provides exactly and accordingly for EVERY need.

I think this is meaningless. I don't mean this as an attack, but the statement doesn't allow for testing. There is no negative outcome possible. Whatever happens is simply assumed to be "needed" in some viewpoint's estimation. So, it's okay. That old lady sleeping on the heat vent in the winter "needs that experience, the universe has given it to her, so it must be so". Really?

Dr Robert Oppenheimer warned us in 1955 that

the threat posed to humanity by the atomic bomb is trivial compared to the threat posed by the misuse of the breakthroughs in psychology - of controlling men's minds....
LINK for recovering scientologists
Link to Index


George Estabrooks, the father of militarized hypnosis, warned us in 1947 that

the only defense against covert hypnosis is to familiarize oneself with the techniques being used LINK

That's a very good point. It is very true that if you are not aware you are being bombarded with signals intended to condition you as a consumer and worker and passive cog contributing thoughtlessly to a machine built to dominate the resources of the world so that an elite few can live like Gods while most people live like slugs... well, if you don't know this, you can't protect yourself. You might have fits of resistance (punk rockers, hippies, whatever), but those resisting aren't aware of how it works, for the most part. Their resistance is doomed to failure until they learn the methods used, and then they will become targets of the disinformation machine meant to discredit them. It's a vicious system. I do what I can. The problem is that it is a very effective system, and the more people that buy into it, the more effective it becomes. It is quite possible that we have gone beyond a tipping point.

This can be very distressing. My father taught me an important lesson when I was very young, and terrified about nuclear war. The problem was that I have no control over it, and it can kill me. He pointed out that I also have no control over asteroids, natural disasters, etc. Then he pointed out that I should concentrate on the things that are within my sphere of influence. Many nightmare scenarios could occur. Concern about these things may be genuine, but most people who obsess over them are delusional about what they can do about it, or totally apathetic. He made a persuasive argument that I should work on learning the skills and concepts I would need to improve my own situation, and that this would eventually lead to an expansion of my sphere of influence. Rather than obsessing over, crying about and having nightmares about nuclear war, I should go to school, clean my room, do my homework, and more importantly, follow my own interests, and do things that will empower me. This was very difficult for me to understand, but I eventually got it. I stopped worrying about nuclear war. It might happen. I can't stop it: yet. I can work on improving my knowledge, my own condition, help my friends, and gradually increase in influence. Maybe, one day, I'll have enough influence to stop nuclear war. Maybe not. What I won't do is occupy my time and attention with things that I can't control (yet), and which paralyze me with fears, apathy about my future, etc.

If emotion is tied to the degree of progress towards your goals, then it is wise to select goals that you can achieve, and that will enhance your capability to achieve the next set of goals you might be interested in. If you insist on fighting a war that is bigger than you, do what you can to get bigger!

The central core that holds the subject together is:

We are spiritual beings mired in meat bodies.

No, that's the "religion angle".
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: The upper ten thousand of Earth

"Scientology and Dianetics have included the upper ten thousand of Earth very easily. I'm not trying to give you a swelled head. It's true. You had brains enough to know that you didn't know."

L. Ron Hubbard, from The State of Man Congress

Hubbard sure liked to stroke the ego of Scientology participants to really get them excited about his sham.

I remember reading somewhere else where he stated that there were "only about 30,000 people on the entire planet who could assimilate and understand pure Scientology". The implication was that all the rest were "dull", "stupid", "evil", "PTS" or degraded. Of course he pointed out that YOU, the SCIENTOLOGIST, were one of these few incredibly bright individuals who somehow managed to RISE TO THE TOP of the spiritual ability reservoir. YOU were SPECIAL. YOU were one of a select FEW! YOU were "helping Ron get the job done"! The fact that Scientology attracted YOU meant that YOU must have had a little somethig extra going on - you were "more on the ball", or a "naturally brighter candle".

It is a FACT that many Scientologists, whether they admit it to themselves or not, get at least a quiet joy and a deep personal pleasure when they read this sort of shit and identity themselves with these "superior human beings" Hubbard defines the Scientologist to be.

This is just one example of how Scientology appeals to ego, and also how it acts to bring about increased ego in the realm of "I am a Scientologist".

Oh, them nutty Scientologists (who imagine themselves BETTER than everybody else). :duh:

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Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Excellent posts. Arnie is on his usual soap-box and tootling his horn. That's how we have come to expect anything from him.

But Gadfly is SUPERB! Very well expressed. What I wrote is clearly written on the "reality level" of a new person coming into Scio - it's a view from the bottom. As one progresses one experiences what Gadfly wrote more and more.

And Uniqenmind too. A worthy contribution. You see Arnie - it can be done.

At present I am paying little attention to the board. It is Sunday morning here so I'm looking a bit at what has been written. But for the most part I'm devoting my time to studying up on Ouran's materials and working on that. Having great fun. You'd like it too Gadfly.

cheers
 
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