Coming to grips

[byte301]

NA,

I'd suggest you read all our leaving scientology stories. There are over 9,000 of them on the internet these days. That explains how we feel on the subject of scientology.

Anonymous would tell you to lurk moar, meaning: do your research.

I, for one, don't plan on repeating how I feel about scientology. That I'm on an EX-scientologist's board speaks volumes, don't you agree?

If your trolling us, have fun. If you're not then do some reading and then come back with some questions we can answer or WANT to answer about scientology.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

That's only if you're willing to apply part of Scientology. As a Freezoner you are able to do that.....but that isn't Scientology...just a small fraction of it.

Heresy is a good thing in and of itself. It reflects the ability to consider and choose for oneself as well as a willingness to be responsible for one's own choices.

The fundamental teachings of the subject of scientology are in alignment with an heretical perspective. Where the church of scientology falls away from that stance in its various teachings it is arguably teaching something other than scientology precisely because of inconsistency with the fundamental principles of the subject.

Heresy is far superior to either wholesale acceptance or rejection of any particular creed or doctrine. I pity the poor Hubbardist or Anti-Hubbardist.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Not Anonymous]

I agree

From what I've seen most here agree with that idea. It's the subject of Scientology where we get to the real meat of the matter.

IKnowTooMuch - i agree with you there.

 

[Not Anonymous]

What is trolling?

NA,

I'd suggest you read all our leaving scientology stories. There are over 9,000 of them on the internet these days. That explains how we feel on the subject of scientology.

Anonymous would tell you to lurk moar, meaning: do your research.

I, for one, don't plan on repeating how I feel about scientology. That I'm on an EX-scientologist's board speaks volumes, don't you agree?

If your trolling us, have fun. If you're not then do some reading and then come back with some questions we can answer or WANT to answer about scientology.

Byte, what do you mean by trolling - I saw in one place it meant to get people to argue - but I am not trying to do that, so would you mind spelling it out because I don't get it. Thanks... NA

 

[Not Anonymous]

Good point

And why is that? Did you finally word clear KSW #1?

What are you in turmoil about? The cult? The technology? Your inability to convince others (who arent already convinced) that the cult and/or the tech actually work?

In your opinion, does the Scientology form of counseling actually work? Then why dont you use it to handle your turmoil? We here at ESMB are not on some amends project, or on some sort of contract with the big thetan in the sky to handle your turmoil. Especially if you wont explain yourself.

Neo

Neo, sorry if I offended you. You have a good point. I shall shut up until I can pull myself together... NA

 

[Not Anonymous]

Interesting view

Ignorance of the machinations of the Scientology Movement are an absolute essential ingredient to retaining plausible deniability.

Scientologists are *good* at deliberate ignorance.

Zinj

Z, Ineresting view - I agree with you... I also think that with slight modification, it sort of sums up the state of most "free" societies... Food for thought anyway...

 

[Not Anonymous]

Sounds like an invite

NA,

I'd suggest you read all our leaving scientology stories. There are over 9,000 of them on the internet these days. That explains how we feel on the subject of scientology.

Anonymous would tell you to lurk moar, meaning: do your research.

I, for one, don't plan on repeating how I feel about scientology. That I'm on an EX-scientologist's board speaks volumes, don't you agree?

If your trolling us, have fun. If you're not then do some reading and then come back with some questions we can answer or WANT to answer about scientology.

Byte, do you have a link to your story if you do not want to go through it again? Not trying to pry, I am interested as you are the first person to make this suggestion... No pressure, obviously.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Heresy is a good thing in and of itself. It reflects the ability to consider and choose for oneself as well as a willingness to be responsible for one's own choices.

The fundamental teachings of the subject of scientology are in alignment with an heretical perspective. Where the church of scientology falls away from that stance in its various teachings it is arguably teaching something other than scientology precisely because of inconsistency with the fundamental principles of the subject.

Heresy is far superior to either wholesale acceptance or rejection of any particular creed or doctrine. I pity the poor Hubbardist or Anti-Hubbardist.


Mark A. Baker

Okay, see I totally agree with that (minus the "fundamental teachings" part of Scientology). For many reasons.
Where I go baty over Scientology is the all the emphasis Hubbard puts on KSW and it being perfect. And having to remain absolutely perfect.
This is where Scientology crashes and burns imo. Who's to say what is or isn't meant by Hubbard but Hubbard himself! And he has an evolution so to say in Scientology. So the average person picks up a Scientology books and reads something that can be taken more than one way. Who's to say he's wrong now that Hubbbard is gone?....BUT KSW is still there.

Then, which set of books does one use?

So basically you are having to make up your own Scientology path. Some view this as a great thing some don't. But what is Scientology really at this point!?


I would have no problem with Scientology (for the most part) if it weren't such a controlled religion. This is why I respect those that are humble about their religion in general and don't preach to others.

 

[Neo]

Neo, sorry if I offended you. You have a good point. I shall shut up until I can pull myself together... NA

There was no offense, nor a request to be silent. I asked you a few questions (none of which you answered), and made my opinions clear. I'm only one person NA. And if your desire for help is genuine why let me stop you?

Neo

 

[byte301]

Hi NA,

Trolling can mean having some fun with us. Like not being who or what you say you are and saying things just to get a response from people. I don't mind a little trolling myself. It can actually be funny.

My story isn't that interesting.

At the bottom of this page is a box you can click that gives you all the sub-forums on the board. Try "Leaving Scientology" for some stories. There are some real horrors stories here so prepare yourself.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Where I go baty over Scientology is the all the emphasis Hubbard puts on KSW and it being perfect. And having to remain absolutely perfect.
This is where Scientology crashes and burns imo. Who's to say what is or isn't meant by Hubbard but Hubbard himself!

Hubbard was inconsistent. He often would contradict himself. In some materials he would encourage people to think for themselves. Elsewhere he cooks up "KSW" and wordclearing students into submission.

As a heretic I reserve the right to choose that material which makes sense to me and which I find useful. That which limits my choice, insight, or freedom I don't find useful.

Then, which set of books does one use?

You use the material which you find useful and makes sense for you. And only that material. For this there is complete justification in Hubbard's own words. Maybe he meant it, may be he didn't. The Co$ may not like it but it's there and it's useful.

So basically you are having to make up your own Scientology path. Some view this as a great thing some don't. But what is Scientology really at this point!?

It's still scientology, as in the subject of scientology. It is certainly not consistent with the church of scientology's preferred practice.

Really what it amounts to is acknowledgement of the contribution to spiritual development that has been offered in the name of the subject of scientology. There are real contributions there. Many people contributed to this work and it should be acknowledged and kept widely available. Simply because Hubbard & the Co$ choose to misrepresent & misuse the material, the role played by others, and the actual achievements of scientologists does not negate the real value to be found in the spiritual technology of scientology.

I would have no problem with Scientology (for the most part) if it weren't such a controlled religion. This is why I respect those that are humble about their religion in general and don't preach to others.

Excluding OSA agents, we all agree that the Co$ is a harmful cult which seeks to control the lives & thoughts of it's membership. To a large extent it was set up to become so from it's onset by the emphasis on secrecy and protecting the "principals of scientology".

Such things have informed all of our choices in choosing to disassociate ourselves from that institution.


Mark A. Baker