Commendation, Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder.

PREDICTIONS?

Will the leopard change some of it's spots to get it's hands on the money - or at least to be in control of the money?

Marty may have to make concessions, because he's getting too many bullet holes in his feet to stand up straight. Damn hard thing to do for those who know what's best for the world and everyone in it. But he will need a support base to get back into the high life and self importance, control, and access to cult megabucks in the "org".
It will be lovely. Marty's true goodness could shine thru. Feel-good vibe fest for all of us! Just by being nice to the darkside dissenters. You don't see Terril running around and pissing people off. He is more wiser than that. It jis ain't nice t' shit in yer own nest. Or in Marty's case, future nest-egg. So Marty could gain a lot by changing the spots a bit. Must stay in control though. Things could take a bad turn somewhere. The Law?
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Validation

Agreed.

Panther, since you seem to be a friend of Ax's I won't troll you.
I will ask you to go read every old Marty thread on this board however. I think that would tell you why we go nuts and call him names, etc. everytime we hear what he's saying on his flog.

He hasn't come clean by a long shot. His interview with SP Times was mostly fluff. Like Aaron said, a slap from dm is nothing compared to a lot of the stuff that went on.

People go on his flog wanting answers about how they were treated when he was calling a lot of the shots. They usually are treated in a demeaning, condescinding manner. Alanzo is one. And Marty called Dennis Erhlich a punk. The man he tried to destroy.

He doesn't care about anyone he abused while in the cult and he doesn't care about anyone still being abused by the cult.

Aaron had the guts to do what Marty and Rinder should have done from the get go.

No, I will never have any respect for Marty until he spills the REAL beans. I doubt that will ever happen. So I'll keep calling him names. I don't have any scilon bosses these days so I'm free to say what I feel. Call it HE&R all you want, I AM human and I won't suppress that. I don't subscribe to any of that scilon crap these days anyway.

I Validate your post strongly !!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::clap:

MARTY RATHBUN IS AN SP. This leopard won't be changing his spots, just wait and see.

If anyone doesn't get this, then get out your references and study them.

AARON SAXTON has left Marty and Mike Rinder in the Dust Ethics wise. It is too bad that he doesn't know auditing works.
 

flashgordon

Patron with Honors
Commendation, Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder.

I shall start with this comment from an asshole. :-

"Marty Rathbun and everyone else in the Sea Org can play the part of victim all they want, but they will get no sympathy from me by passing the buck to Miscavige."

This is an insult to many posters here who have written of there struggles to make the Church to do right. These posters are self evidently heroes, and yet failed. Yet they are, rightly praised not condemned.

Marty and Mike have struck it seems the most effective blow against the
tyranny of Miscavidge, of OSA and the COS, and some useless keyboard warrior idiots complain and moan!

They also insult those who follow the technology of scientology. Like
Marty Rathbun. He, others, moi, are freezoners.

I suggest they go to some islamic forums and insult islam and leave their address!

There are four heroes, putting themselves in danger to make the world a safer place for scientologists and ex scientologists.

Kudos and salutations. :)

I agree.
 

dianaclass8

Silver Meritorious Patron
I Validate your post strongly !!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::clap:

MARTY RATHBUN IS AN SP. This leopard won't be changing his spots, just wait and see.

If anyone doesn't get this, then get out your references and study them.

AARON SAXTON has left Marty and Mike Rinder in the Dust Ethics wise. It is too bad that he doesn't know auditing works.

Marty has not said anything that would lead Miscavige to arrest. Nobody cares if he was beatened or not.

While Aaron has already said plenty to the point there is going to be an inquiry on the CofS. And by none other that Senator Xenophon...LOL!

Now that is an upstat!

Diana
 

I'll have to admit , that did make me laugh, but not as much as that along with seeing the word banned under your screen name.

Give Little Marty my regards I'm sure he will find his prison cell far more comfortable than the accommodations of those he imprisoned in the RPF while being Miscavige's Little Bitch.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
XENU

Marty has not said anything that would lead Miscavige to arrest. Nobody cares if he was beatened or not.

While Aaron has already said plenty to the point there is going to be an inquiry on the CofS. And by none other that Senator Xenophon...LOL!
Now that is an upstat!
Diana

Does Xenophon work for Xenu. It is a strange planet. Possible ?

Last I read Xenu escaped from his prison.

Maybe Xenophon IS Xenu. :omg:

Where the hell is Ron when you need him ?

I've heard his viewpoint on this which is I did the tech, now it is your turn to use it.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Does Xenophon work for Xenu. It is a strange planet. Possible ?

Last I read Xenu escaped from his prison.

Maybe Xenophon IS Xenu. :omg:

Where the hell is Ron when you need him ?

I've heard his viewpoint on this which is I did the tech, now it is your turn to use it.

That is interesting; Ron got it *all* wrong. It's not Xenu; it's Xenophone and he's not calling the populace in for a tax audit; he's calling the *Church'. And, it didn't happen 75 million years ago; it's happening *now*.

Now, we just have to figure out how the propellor-less DC-8s fit into the picture...

Zinj
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
That is interesting; Ron got it *all* wrong. It's not Xenu; it's Xenophone and he's not calling the populace in for a tax audit; he's calling the *Church'. And, it didn't happen 75 million years ago; it's happening *now*.

Now, we just have to figure out how the propellor-less DC-8s fit into the picture...

Zinj
You've cracked the code. Now we know what we're dealing with!
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Marty has not said anything that would lead Miscavige to arrest. Nobody cares if he was beatened or not.

While Aaron has already said plenty to the point there is going to be an inquiry on the CofS. And by none other that Senator Xenophon...LOL!

Now that is an upstat!

Diana

If Marty told ALL the truth, in order to take down DM, then Marty risks going to jail along with DM.
I'm not holding my breath... it ain't gonna happen.
 

Doom

Lurking.
Zinj commending M&M? That'll be the day! I think you have him confused with someone else, Doom!

:hysterical::hysterical:
No confusion, Just a badly worded post thats all.

Zinj puts more flak up for those two than a dozen ZEUS-23 AAA guns.
cpos1.gif
 

aaron saxton

Patron with Honors
Show me whats behind door Number Two

I will judge people by their actions.

Not the Euphoria they create. I was sucked into that for years.

Factually, if I could see any blow struck against DM I would welcome it. To date I have not seen any blow.

When I see the "blow" against DM, someone let me know. Not that it matters.

DM is not the cause of your problems. No more than Ron is the answer to your good health. DM dying tomorrow would not change a thing.

The Sea Org dying, now that would be a beautiful thing. And DM leaving the SO would not change the SO one, little, bit.

And anyone thinking it would, clearly can not see that DM is not a renegade.

He is not an outlaw.

He is not off policy.

Eveything he has done is on-policy 100%. Even hitting Marty was in line with policy.

And in there, lay the terrifying truth.

DM is applying Scientology 100%. And that is why the Sea Org is the way it is.

Remember, DM thinks it is OK. And believes it.

What does Marty think? I have no idea. He hasn't told anyone yet.

I can assure you, follow Marty on the line he is going and you will not get 100% pure Scientology. You will 100% pure Sea Org control.

Possibly Marty and his goals and ambitions to regroup the SO is about as dangerous as it was to throw away the GO and establish OSA. It just became more effective and terrifying.

I can not support him. But I won't hate him either.
 

anon2487

Patron with Honors
I posted this to a thread that then died (probably killed by this very post :) ), but the way I see it is that Marty Rathbun absolutely wants to take over the "Church," and there's reasonable evidence to support it:

Whilst he clearly wants to avoid prosecution, I don't believe that he's fearful of it, I think he's too arrogant for that. What he really fears is irreparable damage being done to the CofS itself (and no doubt it's bank accounts too). :eyeroll:

There can only be one plausible explanation for this...

[Because of how busy things are atm, I'm not gonna waste time looking for the direct links, so I'll just link to one very telling post. Other people will likely remember most of the other ones anyway.]

[In rough chronological order.]

  • Larry Brennan posts in a casual response to someone on WWP (I think), about having been approached by a group of people looking to stage a coup, and take back the Church. His response was that he had no interest, as in his opinion there was nothing worth saving. It *may well* not have been Marty and co., as Larry didn't say, but I'd guess that there's a more than even chance that it was.

  • Marty enters the scene on ESMB, emphasising that he WON'T be speaking to the FBI.

  • "T. Paine" [who the CofS claims is Marty, (no idea either way, as they've certainly misidentified several other posters; but at the very least it's undoubtedly "Marty Approved")] posts the following Message to OT's

    "...If you don’t act soon and help those that are determined to change things for the better, between governments and greedy lawyers the issue may be taken out of our hands and there might not be much left when the dust settles. Government departments are slow to act but when they get going they are hard to stop..."

  • When praising various people on his blog (I think some of the new "Independents,") one of the things that he specifically praised at least one of them for, was not having going to the authorities/enemies of the Church at a time when many others might.

  • Oh yup, and then obviously the recent "Noise" blog post, and his subsequent refusal to be specific about the people he was clearly referring to.

Lots more instances, but I'm sure ya get ma drift.

Any damage he does cause, I think in his mind, is simply a necessary evil to discredit DM, increase dissent within the Church (dissent that he no doubt hopes will bolster his "independent movement,") whilst in the medium term, building a degree of credibility with the SO. [What current SOrger is not gonna be quietly pleased to know that Marty assisted the Headley's in obtaining full and proper compensation for their work?]

Based on everything I've seen, I think that Marty's idealised plan, was/is to create a strong external Scientology movement (preferably with celeb endorsement), pressure key financial supporters of the "Church" to join his side, and create a situation sufficient that he's able to offer DM an "offer he can't refuse": a quiet retirement abroad (no doubt with a well laden golden parachute), or face certain criminal prosecution. [I think this is the ONLY circumstance in which he'd choose to see DM prosecuted.]

[ALL of the above is based on public comments made either by Marty himself, or his closest supporters.]

FWIW, when I first saw the SP Times vidz, whilst I was convinced that he wanted to take over the Church. I was also willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and actively argued for a bit of tolerance for him on WWP.

However, the only way I can seem changing now, is if external forces cause some dramatic change.

Having said all that, I don't see any reason to attack him either. It's certain that he will at least pull some people out of the "Church," will (hopefully) maintain his commitment to assist the Headley's in court, and is definitely a MAJOR thorn in DM's side. There are also a couple of things that would stop him dead in his tracks in the unlikely event that his plan was ever successful.

My personal hope is that what Geir is doing will lay the groundwork for the future of Scientology (the subject), as I think that he's a genuinely decent person, with no ulterior motives, who would never support the kind of criminality that's defined the CofS to date. [Yes, I know he doesn't appear to be setting himself up as a leader, nor does he probably wants to be one, but if his board is successful, then his attitudes, integrity, and general aims will inevitably help set the tone for what follows.]
 
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Pooks

MERCHANT OF CHAOS
I posted this to a thread that then died (probably killed by this very post :) ), but the way I see it is that Marty Rathbun absolutely wants to take over the "Church," and there's reasonable evidence to support it:

Whilst he clearly wants to avoid prosecution, I don't believe that he's fearful of it, I think he's too arrogant for that. What he really fears is irreparable damage being done to the CofS itself (and no doubt it's bank accounts too). :eyeroll:

There can only be one plausible reason for this...

[Because of how busy things are atm, I'm not gonna waste time looking for the direct links, so I'll just link to one very telling post. Other people will likely remember most of the other stuff anyway.]

[In (very) rough chronological order.]

  • Larry Brennan posts in a casual response to someone on WWP (I think), about having been approached by a group of people looking to stage a coup, and take back the Church. His response was that he had no interest, as in his opinion there was nothing worth saving. It *may well* not have been Marty and co., as Larry didn't say, but I'd say there's a more than even chance that it was.

  • Marty enters the scene on ESMB, emphasising that he WON'T be speaking to the FBI.

  • "T. Paine" [who the CofS claims is Marty, (no idea either way, though the style of writing's certainly VERY similar; at the very least it's undoubtedly "Marty Approved")] posts the following Message to OT's :

  • When praising various people on his blog (I think some of the new "Independents,") one of the things that he specifically praised at least one of them for, was not going to the authorities/enemies of the Church at a time when many others might.

  • Oh yup, and then obviously the recent "Noise" blog post, and his subsequent refusal to be specific about the people he was clearly referring to.

Lots more instances, but I'm sure ya get ma drift.

Any damage he does cause, I think in his mind, is simply a necessary evil to discredit DM, increase dissent within the Church (dissent that he no doubt hopes will bolster his "independent movement,") whilst in the medium term, building a degree of credibility with the SO. [What current SOrger is not gonna be quietly pleased to know that Marty assisted the Headley's in obtaining full and proper compensation for their work?]

Based on everything I've seen, I think that Marty's idealised plan, was/is to create a strong external Scientology movement (preferably with celeb endorsement), pressure key financial supporters of the "Church" to join his side, and create a situation sufficient that he's able to offer DM an "offer he can't refuse": a quiet retirement abroad (no doubt with a well laden golden parachute), or face certain criminal prosecution. [I think this is the ONLY circumstance in which he'd choose to see DM prosecuted.]

[ALL of the above is based on public comments made either by Marty himself, or his closest supporters.]

FWIW, when I first saw the SP Times vidz, whilst I was convinced that he wanted to take over the Church. I was also willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and actively argued for a bit of tolerance for him on WWP.

However, the only way I can seem changing now, is if external forces cause some dramatic change.

Having said all that, I don't see any reason to attack him either. It's certain that he will at least pull some people out of the "Church," will (hopefully) maintain his commitment to assist the Headley's in court, and is definitely a MAJOR thorn in DM's side. There are also a couple of things that would stop him dead in his tracks in the unlikely event that his plan was ever successful.

My personal hope is that what Geir is doing will lay the groundwork for the future of Scientology (the subject), as I think that he's a genuinely decent person, with no ulterior motives, who would never support the kind of criminality that's defined the CofS to date. [Yes, I know he's not a leader, nor probably wants to be one, but if his board is successful, then his attitudes, integrity, and general aims will inevitably help set the tone for what follows.]

Interesting post. Thanks.
 

byte301

Crusader
I will judge people by their actions.

Not the Euphoria they create. I was sucked into that for years.

Factually, if I could see any blow struck against DM I would welcome it. To date I have not seen any blow.

When I see the "blow" against DM, someone let me know. Not that it matters.

DM is not the cause of your problems. No more than Ron is the answer to your good health. DM dying tomorrow would not change a thing.

The Sea Org dying, now that would be a beautiful thing. And DM leaving the SO would not change the SO one, little, bit.

And anyone thinking it would, clearly can not see that DM is not a renegade.

He is not an outlaw.

He is not off policy.

Eveything he has done is on-policy 100%. Even hitting Marty was in line with policy.

And in there, lay the terrifying truth.

DM is applying Scientology 100%. And that is why the Sea Org is the way it is.

Remember, DM thinks it is OK. And believes it.

What does Marty think? I have no idea. He hasn't told anyone yet.

I can assure you, follow Marty on the line he is going and you will not get 100% pure Scientology. You will 100% pure Sea Org control.

Possibly Marty and his goals and ambitions to regroup the SO is about as dangerous as it was to throw away the GO and establish OSA. It just became more effective and terrifying.

I can not support him. But I won't hate him either.

I actually don't hate him either, Aaron. I have absolutley no respect for him but I don't hate him. I save my hate for CoS policy.

We're a forgiving group here for the most part. If Marty actually came clean and told the truth I think the majority of us here would be more then forgiving or welcoming.

I doubt if he has the desire or even ability to do that however.

I just don't want to see the people leaving the cult right now getting sucked back in via Marty. And that's what Marty is selling imo.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Re Aaron's comment

DM keeps to the shitty policies. DM breaches the policies that are either not shitty or are less shitty.

DM does what DM wants to do.

it's a cult.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think Marty fears being wrong. There is a vast rightness and wrongness to Scientology, intentionally installed by ol' LRH himself. No one inside can quite see it from my observation. To be inside that box becomes no fun, with way way too much necessity of holding to a position. If you can't hold you aren't you, which is death, or worse.

Auditing is the system that holds it all in place, my opinion. It is not a freeing technology and wasn't intended to be. It is a nasty trap disguised as freedom. The pushers tend to be the most pegged in.

Marty is very well trapped by the need to be Marty, to be right, to hold his position. When that becomes less important maybe he can relax and look a bit.

I'm not holding my breath, but you never know.
 
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