Commendation, Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder.

Nah, nothing that fabulously fancy and fantastically expensive. I'm simply talking about real basic, common sense stuff, really. Take "study tech" for example. I was raised in Catholic schools that used dictionaries, and used creative techniques of applying what you learned (much better than dinky demo kits). Had no idea how bad some public school systems had become in 21st century in U.S. until I applied for some community college courses.

I was appalled, really and truly. Then I learned that a) many students had been going through school drugged, one way or another and b) teaching methods were by rote "memorization".

as far as upper level "tech", taken from Crowley black majic and sci-fi writers like Heinlein, and Azimov, maybe.

The thing of it is, CornPie, it's just no that black and white. People have had genuine improvement in their life, and just because it happened in the midst of a hoax, doesn't mean you or anyone else can say they didn't experience it.

Talking to someone who you trust about a problem, or going to a music concert, or falling in love, or many things can help someone. And if those things happened while you were involved with something that didn't help, well, that might confuse the issue.

Hey, there comes a time when you have to decide who is holding reins of your life, but if it's someone else, you gotta know you can take them back. And then move on.

Anyone who falls for a ponzi scheme too can get a profit from it if they get out in time. That doesn't mean ponzi schemes are not a black and white issue.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
FreeZone "practitioners" support some of hubbard-Ass's policies, but they won't disclose which. Do some believe in Xenu and fairgame, and some not? Where do you stand on the FZ, can any of them be trusted?

I'd trust them less than a full-blown clam.
 
Few things in life are black and white

http://cloudworth.com/good-adolf-hitler/

This is why it's a very bad idea to surrender your capacity for objective and critical thought to a cult

True, I don't believe things are black and white. But some things can have a net aggregate effect that is either good or bad. Hitler was a nice painter too.

But to take a thing like Hitler loved his mother and equate that on an equal good or bad basis with the death and destruction he caused is not rational.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
True, I don't believe things are black and white. But some things can have a net aggregate effect that is either good or bad. Hitler was a nice painter too.

But to take a thing like Hitler loved his mother and equate that on an equal good or bad basis with the death and destruction he caused is not rational.

The Anabaptist Jacques

To act as if Hubbard created his totalitarian cult to help people just because he claims he did, is not rational either
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Commendation, Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder.

I shall start with this comment from an asshole. :-

"Marty Rathbun and everyone else in the Sea Org can play the part of victim all they want, but they will get no sympathy from me by passing the buck to Miscavige."

This is an insult to many posters here who have written of there struggles to make the Church to do right. These posters are self evidently heroes, and yet failed. Yet they are, rightly praised not condemned.

Marty and Mike have struck it seems the most effective blow against the
tyranny of Miscavidge, of OSA and the COS, and some useless keyboard warrior idiots complain and moan!

They also insult those who follow the technology of scientology. Like
Marty Rathbun. He, others, moi, are freezoners.

I suggest they go to some islamic forums and insult islam and leave their address!

There are four heroes, putting themselves in danger to make the world a safer place for scientologists and ex scientologists.

Kudos and salutations. :)

Mike Rinder, through his deeds, is worse than that asthmatic dwarf. I would like to see Mike Rinder torn apart by big dogs. I would like to keep his preserved severed hand in a draw. There is no honour in that piece of slime and never will be. I want a piece of him. I will remember Mike Rinder best from the high fives he gave the Co$ legal team when he heard that RVY had terminal cancer. I want the world to get even with that guy.
 

dexter gelfand

Patron Meritorious
Thank you Holy Cow

My point is, this day is, at least, a hallmark day of celebration. Perhaps this is a very good day to begin to respect each other and even celebrate our differences.

This kind of name calling and denigration is exactly why many of us are here on the ESMB board ... to heal from that kind of ... uhm, toilet turmoil? turd regurgitation?

Peace, dudes.:fighting: :cake:[/QUOTE]

Well stated, HC. I would add that childishly brutal attacks on those of us who found so much value in the tech while being repulsed by the behavior of certain CoS execs speaks volumes about the attacker, and at the expense of more thoughtful people who express their own disagreements in a more considerate way.
 

AnonOrange

Gold Meritorious Patron
Commendation, Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder.

I shall start with this comment from an asshole. :-

"Marty Rathbun and everyone else in the Sea Org can play the part of victim all they want, but they will get no sympathy from me by passing the buck to Miscavige."

I second the comment from the asshole.

I very much appreciate Marty's courrage and the usefulness of his statements to help Mark, Claire and Laura, but I sense that he's rehearsed that in such a way to be part of whatever remains of Scientology.
 

Martini

Patron Meritorious
Didn't see a video of Rinder but saw the one of Rathbun - powerful and significant in bringing down the cult and Miscavige (unlike the drivel found too often on this board.)

Very Well Done Marty. Carry on.
 

GoButtonIsBlowButton

Patron with Honors
Marty R. is a bit naive in this regard...

Fair Game, disconnection, the chain locker, keelhauling, sec-checks, intel, vicious attacks of perceived enemies, beans and rice, deplorable conditions for families, ridiculous pay, etc. were all part of the LRH era. The Midget COB has only magnified and intensified these reprehensible activities. And Marty's splitting hairs on confessionals versus sec-checks -- puhleez... the culling of overts, evil intentions, withholds, discreditable acts, thoughts, compulsions, sexual indiscretions, etc. FROM PC FOLDERS, NOT SEC CHECK OR ETHICS RECORDS by the GO and now OSA for use in attacking/suppressing the disaffected -- yes, Marty, it was Saint LRH.

The rest of his interview was wonderful.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I agree 100% with the asshole. I have no sympathy for either of them.

By that I mean there is no reason to believe either of them would operate differently if circumstances were the same as before. No reason to think that they have changed perspectives or are willing to offer up honest viewpoints. There is reason to believe their support of the attack on the COS is the safest route for both of them.

I think it is at best disingenuous to play the commendation card, an odiferous relic of Hubbardism, in support of auditors whose methodology has been so, so much the opposite of what spiritual freedom is supposed to create.

As I quoted earlier, politics makes for strange bedfellows.

Totally agree.
 

auntpat

Patron with Honors
Remember Gradients?

These guys are blaming DM for the abuses, etc. Who do you think DM will blame? When he is cornered he will swear that he was following LRH's policy and instructions to the letter. Don't think he won't bring up over boarding and peanut pushing and other examples of LRH's handling. I am glad they are only attacking DM because that gives those that are still in a chance to look at their words. If they were attacking LRH many would shut down and not hear a word they say.
Well done, Marty, keep up the goodd work.:happydance:
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
To be honest, I don't really care about the motivation behind it all.
I just care that this reporting heralds the end of a Suppressive Totalitarian Regime that has ruined the lives of too many good people.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Fair Game, disconnection, the chain locker, keelhauling, sec-checks, intel, vicious attacks of perceived enemies, beans and rice, deplorable conditions for families, ridiculous pay, etc. were all part of the LRH era. The Midget COB has only magnified and intensified these reprehensible activities. And Marty's splitting hairs on confessionals versus sec-checks -- puhleez... the culling of overts, evil intentions, withholds, discreditable acts, thoughts, compulsions, sexual indiscretions, etc. FROM PC FOLDERS, NOT SEC CHECK OR ETHICS RECORDS by the GO and now OSA for use in attacking/suppressing the disaffected -- yes, Marty, it was Saint LRH.

The rest of his interview was wonderful.

Yep. I agree. Marty seems to think that this was all hugely different before the days of Miscavige (at least as he says in part 12). Hubbard's paranoia started all that crap... not Miscavige. For example, Hubbard was the one to institute the over-boarding and the chain-locker punishments.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Commendation, Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder.

I shall start with this comment from an asshole. :-

"Marty Rathbun and everyone else in the Sea Org can play the part of victim all they want, but they will get no sympathy from me by passing the buck to Miscavige."

This is an insult to many posters here who have written of there struggles to make the Church to do right. These posters are self evidently heroes, and yet failed. Yet they are, rightly praised not condemned.

Marty and Mike have struck it seems the most effective blow against the
tyranny of Miscavidge, of OSA and the COS, and some useless keyboard warrior idiots complain and moan!

They also insult those who follow the technology of scientology. Like
Marty Rathbun. He, others, moi, are freezoners.

I suggest they go to some islamic forums and insult islam and leave their address!

There are four heroes, putting themselves in danger to make the world a safer place for scientologists and ex scientologists.

Kudos and salutations. :)

Hi Terril,

why is it that the biggest supporters of Scientology are those that have managed to skip most of the processing such as illegal PCs and "past life Clears"? You know that if you were in the "Church" then you would have got an R-factor years ago. No wonder you support the freezone.

Here is a little on your hero Marty Rathbun:

Thee church says Rathbun is a liar, a bully and an incompetent who screwed up task after task. Church attorney Monique Yingling cites a "phenomenon in Scientology'' when the accuser has committed bad acts he attributes to another; she says that's what Rathbun is doing.

April 19, 1994: Communication. "While I didn't spread any lies about you directly, it did become manifest to me that my actions over the past year have potentially created black PR on you. ... To me, worse than all the shortcomings and overt acts and their effects, is the potential effect they had of tarnishing your image and presence and power. I say 'potential' only because I think it would be presumptuous of me to suggest I could do any real harm to you. ... I did want you to know that I have never regretted anything as deeply as I regret having betrayed you.''

2001: Statement: Rathbun confesses to physical and degrading attacks. "In May 2001 I grabbed Yager by the shirt and lifted him into a wall when he got caught out on outright false reporting to COB as I recall. ... In April or May 2001, Guillaume gave me some 1.1 backflash and I threw him across a table. ... On about 25 occasions I severely ripped into (name blacked out). ... I called her a 'f------ c---' and a "suppressive b----,'' and a "black PR infested criminal. ... I ordered her to Ethics on about 8 occasions to get her overts, withholds, BPR and evil purposes handled in lieu of cramming orders.''

Dec. 8, 2001: Suppressive Person Declaration. Referring to himself as "Marty,'' Rathbun said he had harmed and undermined colleagues. "Marty took advantage of a number of false reports he had put in place over years giving a false picture as to his role in handling external attacks and the IRS in particular.''

"Marty then engaged in a campaign to covertly and systematically take out and undermine any executive or staff who might expose him. He did this through abusing his privilege to act as a security checker. ... He began the out-tech practice of sec checking people with no formal session set up, and brow beating hair-raising confessions out of them.''

Sept. 28, 2003: Public Announcement: Rathbun wrote: "I have developed a slick false PR technique of positioning myself as having been integral in handling threats during and after the fact, when they are actually terminatedly handled by COB. By calculation I have lost the Church 43 million dollars on losses and expenses that could have been avoided....
 
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