Commendation, Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder.

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
<...snip>
Here is a little on your hero Marty Rathbun:

Thee church says Rathbun is a liar, a bully and an incompetent who screwed up task after task. Church attorney Monique Yingling cites a "phenomenon in Scientology'' when the accuser has committed bad acts he attributes to another; she says that's what Rathbun is doing.
<....snip blah, blah, blah>
.

It's quite unusual to see you doing OSA's work for them, Roland.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
It's quite unusual to see you doing OSA's work for them, Roland.

Being high up in the "Church" is like the old occult societies in London where you had to provide proof that you had done a murder before you could be accepted. You have got to be as scum as the highest scum in Scientology before you can hold one of those top posts. That is why scum like Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun will not get sympathy from me. I want one of their hands to keep in my draw.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
I understand that BUT I can't quite see the logic in using the CofS/OSA dead-agent material to besmirch the character of those now assisting in the expose. I wouldn't be forwarding Church DA lines, especially at this time.
The enemy of my enemy etc...
 
I understand that BUT I can't quite see the logic in using the CofS/OSA dead-agent material to besmirch the character of those now assisting in the expose. I wouldn't be forwarding Church DA lines, especially at this time.
The enemy of my enemy etc...

He's only being honest about what he thinks of these individuals. I think Rathbun and Rinder are the same low-lifes they were when they were still in Scientology. They are motivated by their self-interest now as they were then.

It is the reporters who are uncovering the truth, not Rinder and Rathbun.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Tim Skog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I won't commend Rathbun and Rinder, nor will I condemn them. They both have a long way to go in making good on the bad that they were part of while working closely with Da Midget.

By the same token I sure as hell don't trust the Church's spin about these two guys now, and I certainly don't trust the Church's so called documentation about the bad character of either Marty or Mike.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
I will commend them for speaking up.
They have seen it's wrong and this is an ethics gradient for DM and Scientology.


Well done guys and girl!!:thumbsup:
 

Feral

Rogue male
To be honest, I don't really care about the motivation behind it all.
I just care that this reporting heralds the end of a Suppressive Totalitarian Regime that has ruined the lives of too many good people.

Exactly.

We don't know what these guys will do with the cult, they see Ron's work with rose colored glasses and I want no part of the future of scientology or the bridge to nowhere, but they are exposing DM and the abuses of the past.

For now that's more than good enough for me and I'm happy to see and even assist them in exposing little Nap and blowing apart his scam.

Who knows? They might even make Scientology user friendly, end the SO, coerced abortions, pay a living wage, shut down OSA, end fair gaming and revamp the abusive ethics and justice tech. Hell they might even start respecting the confidentiality of the confession.

Scientology manages to contradict itself so many ways that if you cherry picked, as all 'execs' have in the past you might even make it an evolving science.

Then again, maybe not. But right now any one that doesn't see that it is finally going in the right direction seems kinda odd to me..
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Were you on staff? Were you in the SO? Were you a progressing public?

All of what you say here can be said about any and all of those in the categories listed above. That includes me.

I've witnessed a number of staff members and public who harassed, insulted and intimidated other scilons on a routine basis. That's what being an 'on purpose' scilon is all about; it's the means to achieving 'a cleared planet'. The vast majority of people who tried sci would have never continued for long unless the were relentlessly pursued by other staff and public who use any number of trained tactics to get at others and MAKE THEM DO IT. This is common scilon activity.

After leaving it took me a decade to fully realize that I was still running my arrogant 'I know more than you and thus am superior' bullshit on just about everyone I knew.

Just because some lower ranking scilons only 'pull off fingernails' in comparison to upper level staff or public who 'dismember whole limbs' does not make one a deplorable 'low life'; Scilonville breeds this type of psycho terrorist into every single one of it adepts. One's onslaught of others and the resulting damage to those targeted naturally increases as one moves 'up' the chain in processing or training whether public or staff.

Every person who makes it out deserves the chance to 'find out who they really are' but FOR REAL- not as described in the idiot's guide to ethics by L Con Hub.

Those who lay the blame on 'the management' are IMO trying to deflect attention away from their own wrongs and whoring days...


-snip- I think Rathbun and Rinder are the same low-lifes they were when they were still in Scientology. They are motivated by their self-interest now as they were then. -snip-

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
Exactly.

We don't know what these guys will do with the cult, they see Ron's work with rose colored glasses and I want no part of the future of scientology or the bridge to nowhere, but they are exposing DM and the abuses of the past.

For now that's more than good enough for me and I'm happy to see and even assist them in exposing little Nap and blowing apart his scam.

Who knows? They might even make Scientology user friendly, end the SO, coerced abortions, pay a living wage, shut down OSA, end fair gaming and revamp the abusive ethics and justice tech. Hell they might even start respecting the confidentiality of the confession.

Scientology manages to contradict itself so many ways that if you cherry picked, as all 'execs' have in the past you might even make it an evolving science.

Then again, maybe not. But right now any one that doesn't see that it is finally going in the right direction seems kinda odd to me..

It's been going in the right direction for quite some time, the cult has been crumbling for a while now and of course this is all very good news.

The point here is Hubbard's policies are what drives the evil discussed in the article. Trying to distance and shelter Hubbard from his evil policies is insane. Miscavige is one of many criminals who used Hubbard's insane policies to justify his total disregard for the law. Once Miscagive is in prison and the names of the policies are sugar coated yet again, another hit man will take Miscagive's place to carry on the wash, rinse, spin cycle of Hubbard's totalitarian mind control cult known as Scientology.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
He's only being honest about what he thinks of these individuals. I think Rathbun and Rinder are the same low-lifes they were when they were still in Scientology. They are motivated by their self-interest now as they were then.

It is the reporters who are uncovering the truth, not Rinder and Rathbun.

The Anabaptist Jacques
TAJ, I get it, believe me!

I have no particular love for either of them and think Terril mispoke when he used the term Commendations, a loaded word for many here.

My actual point seems to be getting missed; Roland is not only telling us that he personally doesn't like them, he's using the CofS/OSA-provided dead-agent bullshit to explain why we should also consider feeling that way. Tell me your opinion by all means but don't bother telling me CofS' opinion of these guys, I already recognise the smell of bullshit-as-usual.

From previous exchanges with Roland I'm quite sure that he had no real intention of unthinkingly forwarding Command Intention on this matter but that's exactly what he did!

I think he should think about it and perhaps seek first aid for that bleeding foot! :)
 
TAJ, I get, it believe me!

I have no particular love for either of them and think Terril accidently mispoke when he used the term Commendations, a loaded word for many here.

My actual point seems to be getting missed; Roland is not only telling us that he personally doesn't like them, he's using the CofS/OSA provided dead-agent bullshit to explain why we should also consider feeling that way. Tell me your opinion by all means but don't bother telling me CofS' opinion of these guys, I already know he smell of bullshit-as-usual.

From previous exchanges with Roland I'm quite sure that he had no real intention of unthinkingly forwarding Command Intention on this matter but that's exactly what he did!

I think he should think about it and perhaps seek first aid for that bleeding foot! :D

Terril just got his panties in a bunch because he's having a hard time accepting the fact that the root of all this evil is Hubbard and his policies.

Miscavige is a criminal but the abuses will not end with him they were created by design by Hubbard and not Miscavige. The only difference between Hubbard and Miscavige is Hubbard got off on ordering people to degrade and torturing his followers, where as Miscavige enjoys doing it himself. Miscavige and the Slave Org are just an extension of Hubbard himself.
 

MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
The fact that they expose the dictator, but not the Tech, I believe is a plus point. They may reach more people in, on a closer level of reality to get their agreement that the church need a change. We must get Scientologists to withdraw blind support to Co$, and start looking.

The priority, in my view, is the removal of the suppressive criminal dwarf and put an end to church crimes (disconnection, deceit, lies, staff & public abuse). Only when that is done, we will keep on fighting to make sure a new church (if there will be one) will not be based on lies, force and deception as the current one.
 
Last edited:

Terril park

Sponsor
Exactly.

We don't know what these guys will do with the cult, they see Ron's work with rose colored glasses and I want no part of the future of scientology or the bridge to nowhere, but they are exposing DM and the abuses of the past.

For now that's more than good enough for me and I'm happy to see and even assist them in exposing little Nap and blowing apart his scam.

Who knows? They might even make Scientology user friendly, end the SO, coerced abortions, pay a living wage, shut down OSA, end fair gaming and revamp the abusive ethics and justice tech. Hell they might even start respecting the confidentiality of the confession.

Scientology manages to contradict itself so many ways that if you cherry picked, as all 'execs' have in the past you might even make it an evolving science.

Then again, maybe not. But right now any one that doesn't see that it is finally going in the right direction seems kinda odd to me..

Marty is really part of the Freezone now. He was having too many clients to handle and has been in contact with other FZ auditors to help out.

It now seems feasible to speculate what might become of COS once
DM is gone.

If it were to survive I think there would have to be massive changes. It
is not only OK to jettison old policy no longer useful, but LRH says one should.
In other words its allowed.

If who ever is at the top in future genuinely goes to the roots of providing service rather than majoring on making money it may become viable again.

The Pilot had a vision of the Church and Freezone co-operating. That is possibly the only way the COS could survive. It clearly has to get rid of disconnection, and can no longer attack people, some trained by LRH, who
deliver tech without the downsides of being involved with the current COS.

So one might go to your local class VIII FZer for auditing, and then do your study in the COS. This latter being the weak point in the FZ. Telling independant auditors what they are allowed to charge of course should no
longer be possible.

Unless DM takes it all to Bulgravia there should be enough funds to immediately pay staff at least minimum wage, and carry on operating at a loss for some time, money flowing from up lines downward. Maybe after some time operating like this the COS may even once again become an acceptable organisation.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
If who ever is at the top in future genuinely goes to the roots of providing service rather than majoring on making money it may become viable again.

Teensy-weensy problem — the past. There has been SO much criminality involving so many rip-offs that putting it right would be a Herculean task. I don't see it happening, without even getting into the question of whether or not it would be advisable. As soon as someone in authority in the CofS admits that the CofS has ripped people off in some way that opens the door to a huge number of lawsuits.

Imagine the IAS having to repay a large percentage of their fraudulently-obtained donations, for instance.

Paul
 

CornPie

Patron Meritorious
...It is not only OK to jettison old policy no longer useful, but LRH says one should...

...The Pilot had a vision of the Church and Freezone co-operating...
Would somebody please remind The Amalgamated cOs-FZ, that when somebody laughs in their face about Xenu and BT's -- they should just learn to deal with it, rather than hide like scared mice -- as they do on L ron hubbard-Ass Blvd when protesters show up. Hopefully the Amalgamation will conclude that fairgaming is no longer "useful", as you say.

Other "religions" learned to deal with snickering people -- hundreds of years ago -- rather than unleashing hordes of Private Investigators (PI's) who harass them.
 
Would somebody please remind The Amalgamated cOs-FZ, that when somebody laughs in their face about Xenu and BT's -- they should just learn to deal with it, rather than hide like scared mice -- as they do on L ron hubbard-Ass Blvd when protesters show up. Hopefully the Amalgamation will conclude that fairgaming is no longer "useful", as you say.

Other "religions" learned to deal with snickering people -- hundreds of years ago.

It's easier said than done when the founder of your religion was a coward who never learned to confront reality himself. The man died in seclusion hiding from reality and clinging to his imaginary science fiction characters he created.

I wonder if Hubbard would have felt the need to create these imaginary playmates to entertain him if he grew up with siblings to play with as a child instead?
 

Feral

Rogue male
Teensy-weensy problem — the past. There has been SO much criminality involving so many rip-offs that putting it right would be a Herculean task. I don't see it happening, without even getting into the question of whether or not it would be advisable. As soon as someone in authority in the CofS admits that the CofS has ripped people off in some way that opens the door to a huge number of lawsuits.

Imagine the IAS having to repay a large percentage of their fraudulently-obtained donations, for instance.

Paul

This is very true, and despite who gets to run the CofS I still want my IAS money repaid. I also expect them to discharge their accumulated liabilities to staff and bilked public.

They may be selling a lot of buildings to pull this off, and will undoubtedly emerge much smaller than they are today.

I expect it will look like a feeding frenzy for a while.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

LRH says one should.
In other words its allowed.

-snip-

No need to cancel anything.

LRH wrote (publicly) that "Disconnection, Sec Checking, and Fair Game were cancelled in 1968."

With the mind f__k of the "OT levels/Class 8" still in place, and the ol' prevaricating paranoid megalomaniacal founder still revered by his trusting followers, all that's needed is to show them the "Reform Code" of 1968. Tell them that SPs ignored LRH, and it was all those SPs, SPs, SPs, and that "LRH Tech was out," etc.

Then they can proceed up the "Bridge" to Xenu at their Hubbard Guidance Center.

Sounds good. :clap:


:screwy:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Teensy-weensy problem — the past. There has been SO much criminality involving so many rip-offs that putting it right would be a Herculean task. I don't see it happening, without even getting into the question of whether or not it would be advisable. As soon as someone in authority in the CofS admits that the CofS has ripped people off in some way that opens the door to a huge number of lawsuits.

Imagine the IAS having to repay a large percentage of their fraudulently-obtained donations, for instance.

Paul

As they say about lawyers at the bottom of the sea, "thats a
good start". :)

I suspect that there has been very little achieved in service to humanity from such donations, but with some accurate accounting, if thats possiible,
certain percentages could be returned. Then one should also look at what the money was used for and whether it was a valid purpose.

As Feral says, a lot of buildings will have to be sold. Downsizing in terms of
active members started long ago.

If deserved reparations re financial matters alone reduce drastically the size of COS and its members, that would be just.

What one sows one reaps, and Karma is a bitch.
 
Top