Commendation, Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder.

[CornPie]

They're not going to let those empty buildings go. They're in "many" cities, within "many" countries worldwide, established beach heads for a CIA front. Keep your eyes and ears open.

 

[nexus100]

Marty is really part of the Freezone now. He was having too many clients to handle and has been in contact with other FZ auditors to help out.

It now seems feasible to speculate what might become of COS once
DM is gone.

If it were to survive I think there would have to be massive changes. It
is not only OK to jettison old policy no longer useful, but LRH says one should.
In other words its allowed.

If who ever is at the top in future genuinely goes to the roots of providing service rather than majoring on making money it may become viable again.

The Pilot had a vision of the Church and Freezone co-operating. That is possibly the only way the COS could survive. It clearly has to get rid of disconnection, and can no longer attack people, some trained by LRH, who
deliver tech without the downsides of being involved with the current COS.

So one might go to your local class VIII FZer for auditing, and then do your study in the COS. This latter being the weak point in the FZ. Telling independant auditors what they are allowed to charge of course should no
longer be possible.

Unless DM takes it all to Bulgravia there should be enough funds to immediately pay staff at least minimum wage, and carry on operating at a loss for some time, money flowing from up lines downward. Maybe after some time operating like this the COS may even once again become an acceptable organisation.

Wow. Marty has more PC's than he can handle. This is no doubt because he is a tech "expert". And of course there is a difference between operating the tech and having any idea of understanding of life, as in how to run one's own without being a domineering ogre. One can be running any sort of operation personally but the tech is the tech.

Does this not seem a tad disjunctive?

The "key to life" is NOT THE TECH! It is UNDERSTANDING! Does that make sense? That you can actually see what is going on over an entire field of vision? You see to the point where you do not ignore a million failed operations to support a pretense of success in one little fold. All of it begins to clear up a little. It begins to make sense how one person can treat others with utter disdain yet be looked upon as the coming sunrise a moment later, by some.

The reason is THE TECH. It DOES NOT WORK. It is idiotic nonsense to operate any other way. We have PROOF POSITIVE. You do not go overboard like Marty Rathbun and become the Dalia Lama overnight. You just don't. I have no wish for harm to come to Marty. I don't believe in amends or any such BS either. That's TECH. But the idea he can step into a "power position" in FZ land is so compelling an example of that horrible mess they call TECH that I have to point it out.

Oh, the irony!

 

[Ex_SaintHill]

I would also like to commend Marthy and Mike for the courage to speak out. I would like to also say that Tommy Davis is such a loony and liar.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Wow. Marty has more PC's than he can handle. This is no doubt because he is a tech "expert".

No it's because there are still a lot of audit junkies out there who have not realized that reality is their friend and the sooner they embrace it, the sooner they can get back to being functional.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

I do applaud Rinder and Rathbun speaking out - it is good to see them finally doing something ethical.

Actually my respect goes mostly to Amy Scobee who was at INt, was in management, did not beat people up and who was willing to get out there and speak.

I wish Rinder and Rathbun all the best for he future but I wonder how they will fare when the full horror of what they have done hits them.

 

[Zinjifar]

I do applaud Rinder and Rathbun speaking out - it is good to see them finally doing something ethical.

Actually my respect goes mostly to Amy Scobee who was at INt, was in management, did not beat people up and who was willing to get out there and speak.

I wish Rinder and Rathbun all the best for he future but I wonder how they will fare when the full horror of what they have done hits them.

I wonder if it ever will. We haven't really heard much from Mike Rinder yet, and, it seems he's the one the 'Church' is more worried about. Although it's great that Marty is 'speaking out', what he has to say is eyewash. If we're to go by what he's earlier said here on ESMB, he feels little to no culpability for the activities of the 'Church', legal or not, and some of his preferred story line, such as his comments on 'disconnection' are deliberately misleading.

Maybe Mike will do better.

But, Terril's adulation *should* go a long way towards discrediting whatever flavor of 'independent' Scientology he seems to think he's representing. Bad Terril!

Zinj

 

[Terril park]

But, Terril's adulation *should* go a long way towards discrediting whatever flavor of 'independent' Scientology he seems to think he's representing. Bad Terril!

Zinj

There are such things as second chances, and thats a scientology tradition.

Note that Marty's had several years to destim. If you recall he spent 2 years on the Freewinds recieving auditing and training. He was subsequently
thought good enough to audit class XIIs.

He also auditing quite a few celebrities, and these I guess are the people
who are doing services with him. Perhaps no co-incidence that Jason Begue is on his website.

I've had comm with someone who's opinions I greatly respect who met and made peace with Marty after he left the church. Marty is also working with Ken Urquhart who is very well known in the FZ for being an outstanding auditor.

Marty is being a stand up guy and speaking up despite personal danger.

Its odd that those who wish to see the demise of DM, or the COS are quite
happy to denigrate the person who is most likely to bring that about.

You can safely leave that to Davis and his comments re "whole track prison warden". And note that he's trying to defend a current prison warden!

 

[Zinjifar]

I can hardly wait till the Churchies and the Zonies televise their 'Celebrity Face Rip'

'We've got more celebrities than you! Nyaaah nyahh''

Zinj

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

There are such things as second chances, and thats a scientology tradition.

Note that Marty's had several years to destim. If you recall he spent 2 years on the Freewinds recieving auditing and training. He was subsequently
thought good enough to audit class XIIs.

He also auditing quite a few celebrities, and these I guess are the people
who are doing services with him. Perhaps no co-incidence that Jason Begue is on his website.

I've had comm with someone who's opinions I greatly respect who met and made peace with Marty after he left the church. Marty is also working with Ken Urquhart who is very well known in the FZ for being an outstanding auditor.

Marty is being a stand up guy and speaking up despite personal danger.

Its odd that those who wish to see the demise of DM, or the COS are quite
happy to denigrate the person who is most likely to bring that about.

You can safely leave that to Davis and his comments re "whole track prison warden". And note that he's trying to defend a current prison warden!

Speaking for myself:

1. I 'ain't a Scientologist and I don't care what the traditions are.

2. I say he is a weasel. You can use the old Scientology tradition of trying to introvert me by condemning those who denigrating him (wasn't it you who said earlier on this thread about how bad it is to make someone guilty of an overt?) but I couldn't care less. Scientology traditions don't work on me anymore.

3. When DM "finds Jesus" I can't wait to see how you praise him.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

There are such things as second chances, and thats a scientology tradition.

I'm sure David Miscavige will be happy to know he is welcome with open arms to work with you according to your "second chances" tradition. The work he did directly with Hubbard will be a major asset for you.

 

[Challenge]

I wonder if it ever will. We haven't really heard much from Mike Rinder yet, and, it seems he's the one the 'Church' is more worried about. Although it's great that Marty is 'speaking out', what he has to say is eyewash. If we're to go by what he's earlier said here on ESMB, he feels little to no culpability for the activities of the 'Church', legal or not, and some of his preferred story line, such as his comments on 'disconnection' are deliberately misleading.

Maybe Mike will do better.

But, Terril's adulation *should* go a long way towards discrediting whatever flavor of 'independent' Scientology he seems to think he's representing. Bad Terril!

Zinj

Here's an off-the -wall theory for ya. Suppose DM and his henchmen have worked up a program wherein Marty ( and Rinder) are said to 'blow' COS, and soon enter the FZ. They get the names, addresses, all the data that they can on the FZ's associates, including the PCs and all other interested parties. The mailing lists. These they hand over to COS, and DM files a RICO suit against the FZ.
I know. I know. Crazy theory. But you know what? Don't put it past them. The actions of Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder in the recent past shows them , clearly, to be capable of any ugly thing that serves their purpose.
I agree with some others here. Even Roland. I think they are were scum, are scum, and always will be scum.
Terrill's promoting Marty as a Freezoner will be enough to keep the informed person as far away from the FZ as he can get. More PCs than Marty can handle? I wonder how many of them are "Churchies"?

Chlng

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

There are such things as second chances, and thats a scientology tradition. <snip>

Yea.. When you've recvovered your persoal financial ruin and have earned some more money.. But if you were declared, that wil never ever be forgotten.

Hmm.. Anticipating events.. The Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology may be about to crash.. This new story in St.Pete Times will make a lot of scilons break lose I think. And Mr.Rathbun certainly is part of the cause. Rinder and Voght too.. And Amy Scobee.

But let's not forget that they are just the latest to speak out. There has been many before. Very prominent scientologists too!

Ok, if the CoS falls now.. Remnants being taken over by 'responsible' freezoners.

Are we supposed to hop with joy and happiness?

I'm not, because I think the blueprint for the totalitarian hell on earth is in Hubbard's programme.

But I didn't use to think so.. I had bought in to CoS's PR hype for newbies with money at div 6 in the local org.

I expected scientologists to be nearly perfect citizens. With everybody being scientologists, we'd be safe against electing an idiot for president. Since clears and those above would vote really intelligently... And should we, by some mishap, end up with a psychotic dictator, we'd make short shift of such a character... In short: Scientologists would be able to create and maintain a 'theta' society. Without crime and insanity..

Well, we can observe right now, that scientologists fall helplessly into effect of a complete dimwit for a dictator. They can't observe their own most holy of holiest guideline for judging management of their own 3D, the stats! - They sit at events and cheer over obvious lies about unprecedented expansion. They gobble up hostile and evil rethoric about psychs and SP's! They're turning into bloody fascists!

The astounding thing we learn these days.. Is that Scientology and its parishoners needs the SP's and WOG's to get rid of their idiot leader!

And that was not the plan I think..

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Yea.. When you've recvovered your persoal financial ruin and have earned some more money.. But if you were declared, that wil never ever be forgotten.

Hmm.. Anticipating events.. The Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology may be about to crash.. This new story in St.Pete Times will make a lot of scilons break lose I think. And Mr.Rathbun certainly is part of the cause. Rinder and Voght too.. And Amy Scobee.

But let's not forget that they are just the latest to speak out. There has been many before. Very prominent scientologists too!

Ok, if the CoS falls now.. Remnants being taken over by 'responsible' freezoners.

Are we supposed to hop with joy and happiness?

I'm not, because I think the blueprint for the totalitarian hell on earth is in Hubbard's programme.

But I didn't use to think so.. I had bought in to CoS's PR hype for newbies with money at div 6 in the local org.

I expected scientologists to be nearly perfect citizens. With everybody being scientologists, we'd be safe against electing an idiot for president. Since clears and those above would vote really intelligently... And should we, by some mishap, end up with a psychotic dictator, we'd make short shift of such a character... In short: Scientologists would be able to create and maintain a 'theta' society. Without crime and insanity..

Well, we can observe right now, that scientologists fall helplessly into effect of a complete dimwit for a dictator. They can't observe their own most holy of holiest guideline for judging management of their own 3D, the stats! - They sit at events and cheer over obvious lies about unprecedented expansion. They gobble up hostile and evil rethoric about psychs and SP's! They're turning into bloody fascists!

The astounding thing we learn these days.. Is that Scientologys and its parishoners needs the SP's and WOG's to get rid of their idiot leader!

And that was not the plan I think..

The next marketing plan will be ...

We found out David Miscavige was doing "blah blah blah <insert excuses for Hubbard's failed "Tech"> and now that David Miscavige is out of the Church of Scientology and running the Second Chance version of Scientology in the Freezone, we can finally move forward and deliver what Hubbard promised.

All major Credit Cards are Welcome.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

And may Scientology never lack SP's and WOG's to help them get rid of their idiot leaders!

 

[Tiger Lily]

Having been just public, and never on lines at anything bigger than a class V org, I never heard these names while I was in. I don't know if they were scum. are scum, what their motivations are, anything.

But I do know that while I was in I justified all kinds of things as being OK because I was convinced it was the greatest good. I lied to my family about such things as Scientology embraces all religions (when I knew that it didn't) and pretended wins I didn't have to make it seem to them like a good thing. I fell into traps of thinking I was superior to others because i was a Scientologist. I knew about fair game but thought it was OK because Scientology was THAT important. My mind was all messed up. . . and that was at the lowest levels of involvement.

I can only imagine what I would have done with more commitment and responsibility. I'm not going to condemn these guys, even if they've done some bad things. What they are doing right now is very good.

-TL

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Adding my voice here....

Having been just public, and never on lines at anything bigger than a class V org, I never heard these names while I was in. I don't know if they were scum. are scum, what their motivations are, anything.

But I do know that while I was in I justified all kinds of things as being OK because I was convinced it was the greatest good. I lied to my family about such things as Scientology embraces all religions (when I knew that it didn't) and pretended wins I didn't have to make it seem to them like a good thing. I fell into traps of thinking I was superior to others because i was a Scientologist. I knew about fair game but thought it was OK because Scientology was THAT important. My mind was all messed up. . . and that was at the lowest levels of involvement.

I can only imagine what I would have done with more commitment and responsibility. I'm not going to condemn these guys, even if they've done some bad things. What they are doing right now is very good.

-TL

Yep, me too, TL.

EP

 

[Zinjifar]

I can only imagine what I would have done with more commitment and responsibility. I'm not going to condemn these guys, even if they've done some bad things. What they are doing right now is very good.

-TL

It's not about 'condemning' them; there's nothing we can do to them. What is important though is to realize that 'they' (actually Marty in this case, since Mike hasn't said much yet) have an agenda. That agenda is to, as far as possible, distance themselves from any crimes they and their 'Church' have committed, deny any responsibility and as far as possible distract from the systemic nature of criminality in Scientology and divert attention to a single 'target'; David Miscavige.

I would hope that any Ex or even current Scientologist reading or hearing the level of self-serving revisionism we're being served would have all the alarms and bells and whistles going off by now. What's sad is that for some, the standard cultic hero worship and adulation of 'saviors' continues.

Is Marty's statement 'useful'? Yes, certainly. But, it's *intended* to be first and foremost useful for *him*.

Zinj

 

[Terril park]

Here's an off-the -wall theory for ya. Suppose DM and his henchmen have worked up a program wherein Marty ( and Rinder) are said to 'blow' COS, and soon enter the FZ. They get the names, addresses, all the data that they can on the FZ's associates, including the PCs and all other interested parties. The mailing lists. These they hand over to COS, and DM files a RICO suit against the FZ.
I know. I know. Crazy theory. But you know what? Don't put it past them. The actions of Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder in the recent past shows them , clearly, to be capable of any ugly thing that serves their purpose.
I agree with some others here. Even Roland. I think they are were scum, are scum, and always will be scum.
Terrill's promoting Marty as a Freezoner will be enough to keep the informed person as far away from the FZ as he can get. More PCs than Marty can handle? I wonder how many of them are "Churchies"?

Chlng

Our FZ forums have had people on them who were OSA. We know that.
Just as here someone can join, never post, and get whatever names they wish. [So they could anyway here as this is a public forum], but our FZ forums are private, but operate in essentially the same way.

Whether OSA has the manpower to spare for monitoring our forums anymore I doubt, they are swamped with far more serious problems.

Note also that probably most success stories I post have the auditors name, and sometime phone no, and often the PCs name.

Off the top of my head I don't know a freezone auditor who wishes to be anonymous.

 

[Terril park]

I'm sure David Miscavige will be happy to know he is welcome with open arms to work with you according to your "second chances" tradition. The work he did directly with Hubbard will be a major asset for you.

I didn't say he'd be welcome, and he is abhored by freezoners.

 

[CornPie]

...They [Marty in this case, since Mike hasn't said much yet] have an agenda. That agenda is to, as far as possible, distance themselves from any crimes they and their 'Church' have committed, deny any responsibility...

I pulled this quote yesterday from Graham Berry's post, "However, their [i.e. former high ranking scientologists] time to move and repent [i.e. make a deal with the district attorney] is rapidly running out."

I think my inserted brackets make the quote more readable, I'm very sorry if not.

It came from his 1st post of this thread:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=12009