Having been just public, and never on lines at anything bigger than a class V org, I never heard these names while I was in. I don't know if they were scum. are scum, what their motivations are, anything.
But I do know that while I was in I justified all kinds of things as being OK because I was convinced it was the greatest good. I lied to my family about such things as Scientology embraces all religions (when I knew that it didn't) and pretended wins I didn't have to make it seem to them like a good thing. I fell into traps of thinking I was superior to others because i was a Scientologist. I knew about fair game but thought it was OK because Scientology was THAT important. My mind was all messed up. . . and that was at the lowest levels of involvement.
I can only imagine what I would have done with more commitment and responsibility. I'm not going to condemn these guys, even if they've done some bad things. What they are doing right now is very good.
-TL
Hi TL,
There is a moral difference in lying to your family about something you are embarrassed about and lying to the authorities about how somebody in your care died.
There is a huge moral difference between lying about your wins and beating someone up.
Just because you had the same sort of feeling of motivation does not excuse what they did.
It also casts a pall over what they are doing NOW.
Mike Rinder was a friend of mine in my SO days, we did a mission together, we bumped into each at various times during our careers. I like Mike, I enjoyed his company and I would probably enjoy it again.
But that's beside the point of the uncomfortable moral aspect of things.
For the last 20 or so years - both Mike and Marty have, by their own statements helped Miscavige run a reign of terror on Scientologists and Sea Org members.
Families have been split up by their actions, people have lost jobs, people have gone bankrupt.
What would it take for you to condemn people who have done that sort of thing?
I was in international management, I helped set up and run the IAS/IMU, I was the CO of AOSH EU, I was the D/CO EU. I did missions - so many of them I have lost count.
In all my time, and in all my stressful situations NOT ONCE did I ever lay a hand on anyone - in fact I never raised a hand even at a distance, I never "got in someone's face" and yet, unlike Miscavige Rinder and Rathbun - I actually have a history of being in fights prior to my time in the SO. I actually fought people who fought back. I was a biker.
In all my stressful situations I never once regged someone just because I was ordered to - in fact I refused on several occasions, once because I thought that the prospect did not understand what he was doing - even though he had the money.
So the truth of the matter is that no-one needs to sell his or her conscience to be in the SO - you only need to sell it if your position, your power means more to you than your own personal integrity (and I don't mean that bogus "integrity" Hubbard waffled on about).
Neither Rathbun nor Rinder stood up to MIscavige, neither told him to fuck off when he ordered them to do things that they obviously did not feel right doing. They preferred to do unto others rather than be done unto.
Both of them lied to Miscavige in order to keep their positions - why on earth would you assume they are speaking the whole truth now? I applaud them being interviewed and answering the questions but that does not buy them any grace.
