Commodore's Messenger tells all

[strativarius]

In my life away from ESMB I am very tolerant of other people's beliefs. I've got friends and family from different cultures, with different religious beliefs, and from different political parties. We've never let that get in the way of relationships.

But here on ESMB which is (in part) a discussion forum about Scientology, it's different. This board cannot really serve any real purpose if we're not allowed to express our honest opinions about CoS, Scientology, and related subjects, or to comment on the opinions of others.
While many friendships have been made here on ESMB over the years, most people don't come here with that as their primary purpose.
Many come in an attempt to figure out WTF happened to them, or to understand the true nature of Scientology and the CoS, and to recover from the damage suffered by having gotten sucked into a cult. But if we refrain from being honest with each other out of fear of offending others I feel we're doing a disservice to each other, and to those lurking here.

If someone wishes to practice Scientology in their life and believe that Hubbard was the reincarnation of Buddha or whomever, people have a right to believe whatever they wish, as long as they're not harming others.

What I do take issue with though is when someone comes here to ESMB with an agenda to promote Scientology as a positive thing and promote Hubbard as "mankind's greatest friend" or some other similar bullshit. Because that IS harmful to others, and can cause others to fall into a trap many of us got out of.

And if someone does such a thing on ESMB we can and should respond to it IMO.

The trick is to do it in a way which aligns with a post from Ethercat and @Mick Wenlock from 6 years ago (both Admins at the time) which included this:


In heated arguments I've been guilty of violating that in the past, but try my best these days to adhere to it.
If someone says something I disagree with I might respond to it, but target the idea, not the one promoting it.
Many genuinely good-intentioned people have beliefs that are false and/or harmful. But attacking them
personally isn't going to lead them to any realization.

All that said, if someone newly out of the CoS comes here to ESMB, I'm not going to jump all over them, forcefully refuting their ideas they may have about Scientology. That would just overwhelm some people, causing them to leave. It can take years to remove the cult BS out of your head, and many newly out don't even realize yet that it's in their head.

A great post T4, and there's not a word in it that I disagree with.

 

[Wilbur]

Those "suitcases stuffed with cash" SFAIK are undocumented rumor

Indeed. Just like the abilities gained on OTVIII. And OTVII. And the Ls. And the Super Power Rundown. And the ten million current members of the CoS.

 

[Wilbur]

Los Angeles Times ~~
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-04-16-me-764-story.html

Ron Hubbard, the Scientology founder and author who died last year, left more than $26 million in assets, excluding trust funds, according to documents filed by the executor of his estate.
Total assets listed in the inventory amount to $26,305,706. They include "$25 million even" in copyright and trademark materials and $1,305,706 in oil, gas and business investments, said
attorney Charles Ogle of Morro Bay.​

Well, he did earn a penny a word as a fiction author. Presumably he must have written, and saved the proceeds from, 130,570,600 words of fiction. That would have to exclude the works of fiction that have been included in the $25 million listed copyrights and trademarks. Which must mean that there are 130,570,600 words of books out there by Hubbard under pen-names, that didn't get bought back.

I heard on the rumour line that "George Orwell" was just a pen-name. When was 1984 written again? 1948? Around the time that Hubbard was penning the Original Thesis, which is, what, 50,000 word? That's funny. 130,570,600 - 50,000 = 130,520,600, which happens to be the exact number of words that Sigmund Freud wrote after 1917, when Hubbard was around the age of 6, plus the entire literary output of the Buddha.

Oh, wait! It's all beginning to make sense now. Shit, where is that bulletin on how to do the A-E steps again?

 

[EZ Linus]

In my life away from ESMB I am very tolerant of other people's beliefs. I've got friends and family from different cultures, with different religious beliefs, and from different political parties. We've never let that get in the way of relationships.

But here on ESMB which is (in part) a discussion forum about Scientology, it's different. This board cannot really serve any real purpose if we're not allowed to express our honest opinions about CoS, Scientology, and related subjects, or to comment on the opinions of others.
While many friendships have been made here on ESMB over the years, most people don't come here with that as their primary purpose.
Many come in an attempt to figure out WTF happened to them, or to understand the true nature of Scientology and the CoS, and to recover from the damage suffered by having gotten sucked into a cult. But if we refrain from being honest with each other out of fear of offending others I feel we're doing a disservice to each other, and to those lurking here.

If someone wishes to practice Scientology in their life and believe that Hubbard was the reincarnation of Buddha or whomever, people have a right to believe whatever they wish, as long as they're not harming others.

What I do take issue with though is when someone comes here to ESMB with an agenda to promote Scientology as a positive thing and promote Hubbard as "mankind's greatest friend" or some other similar bullshit. Because that IS harmful to others, and can cause others to fall into a trap many of us got out of.

And if someone does such a thing on ESMB we can and should respond to it IMO.

The trick is to do it in a way which aligns with a post from Ethercat and @Mick Wenlock from 6 years ago (both Admins at the time) which included this:


In heated arguments I've been guilty of violating that in the past, but try my best these days to adhere to it.
If someone says something I disagree with I might respond to it, but target the idea, not the one promoting it.
Many genuinely good-intentioned people have beliefs that are false and/or harmful. But attacking them
personally isn't going to lead them to any realization.

All that said, if someone newly out of the CoS comes here to ESMB, I'm not going to jump all over them, forcefully refuting their ideas they may have about Scientology. That would just overwhelm some people, causing them to leave. It can take years to remove the cult BS out of your head, and many newly out don't even realize yet that it's in their head.

Excellent words! I very much agree. Your post revitalizes me. It really does. Thank you.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

What result do you expect to achieve for Birdie (or anyone else for that matter) at this stage in his life by getting him to see the "error of his ways" strat style?

Are you perfect yourself?

Did everything you wanted to achieve in life happen?

Are you a veteran?

I expect most of us have fallen flat on our faces at times, some of us may have needed a bit of help and some of us managed to scramble back up and get things back together alone ... but none of us needed someone on the sidelines yelling at us while we were down and attempting to remove the one thing that was comforting "for our own good" ... and that is all I have been trying to convey.

When you are living on the street at the age of 70 with extreme ill health you may have a bit more right to offer others in similar circumstances your advice ... I hope that never happens.

Well, it's not extreme ill health and we christians are directed by scripture to be content so lng as we have our clothing and our food.

So much as I would love greater material prosperity I'm actually fairly well able to abide scripture especially as I am neither in a war zone or a mental hospital currently

And...

Though I am not in possession of laurels to rest on, I have done some pretty nifty things over the years

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Yes, you're right lotus, I'm probably a bit deficient in the empathy and humanity department where CP is concerned. Having said that, for him to constantly complain about his circumstances when he only has himself to blame does annoy me.

And then there's the irony of the situation. He constantly informs us that scientology and dianetics are wonderfully effective at improving the lives of us all, but just look at his circumstances ...

I know I should just grin and bear it and keep my mouth shut as telling him to get a grip and grow a pair obviously doesn't work, but I can't resist chiding him. I'm going to have another go at doing that.

I don't delight in baiting CP because he's weak and vulnerable, I may be many things, but a bully isn't one of them, and if I think somebody is talking bollocks I'll tell them to their face whoever they are.

What's that line from a well-known song ... 'Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way'. Maybe on the other side of the pond not being so quiet about your trials and travails is more acceptable, but for me his appeals for sympathy are toe-curlingly embarrassing and I find myself literally squirming when I read some of what he writes.

I'll have another go at keeping my nasty remarks about CP to myself from now on.

Always welcome for any comment especially if you can turn a phrase doing it Stratsie.

If I was weak and vulnerable I would have split long ago.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Well, he did earn a penny a word as a fiction author. Presumably he must have written, and saved the proceeds from, 130,570,600 words of fiction. That would have to exclude the works of fiction that have been included in the $25 million listed copyrights and trademarks. Which must mean that there are 130,570,600 words of books out there by Hubbard under pen-names, that didn't get bought back.

I heard on the rumour line that "George Orwell" was just a pen-name. When was 1984 written again? 1948? Around the time that Hubbard was penning the Original Thesis, which is, what, 50,000 word? That's funny. 130,570,600 - 50,000 = 130,520,600, which happens to be the exact number of words that Sigmund Freud wrote after 1917, when Hubbard was around the age of 6, plus the entire literary output of the Buddha.

Oh, wait! It's all beginning to make sense now. Shit, where is that bulletin on how to do the A-E steps again?

Hubbard got top line royalties on his books. CoS covered his primary living expenses and he didn't live ostentatiously. Using his substantial royalty income to make investments $25 mil is sensible enough.

And...

If he was moving church funds around they went back to CSI

I don't begrudge the man a penny he ever took in personally and if you think about it, considering he's been dead more thirty years, HOWLING about his prosperity doesn't make for first rate discussion of he IDEAS.


"First rate people talk about ideas, second rate people talk about things, third rate people talk about people."

 

[Wilbur]

"First rate people talk about ideas, second rate people talk about things, third rate people talk about people."

I'm not in any of those categories. I was J&Ding, using ideas (the idea that there are unacknowledged Hubbard works knocking around), things (books) AND people (Hubbard, Orwell, Freud and Buddha). Which presumably puts me in a fourth category?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I'm not in any of those categories. I was J&Ding, using ideas (the idea that there are unacknowledged Hubbard works knocking around), things (books) AND people (Hubbard, Orwell, Freud and Buddha). Which presumably puts me in a fourth category?

J&D?

It's gotta be good; it don't have to be truthful, kind, wise or socially acceptable

It's gotta be good...

Books...

Fall in the category of ideas as usually does allusion to Orwell Freud and Gautama Siddhartha

Hubbard is resoundingly excoriated as a person in order to negate and avoid the ideas

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

you're welcome there bud. I have you might say done a chronological history of Hubbard and his brainchild AKA Dianetics and Scientology, and trying to piece together the dots from various sources from Heinlein/Campbell/Hubbard personal letters pre 1950 to accounts by exmembers and others after 1950 to present time.

There is one time period I have not been able to put my finger on. and that is the time period from 1952 or so when Hubbard introduced Scientology and the sublime concept of OT, for which he thus created a religion, and then went to St Hill, 1959, I believe.

Janis story and other stories of the Apollo era are after when Hubbard went to St Hill and then created the Sea Org.

But what happened between 1952 or so and when he went to St Hill to fully develop scientology and the Sea Org? This is a mystery to me and I haven't found anything filling in that gap.

All kinds of nuggets in "The Compleat Aberree" https://www.aberree.com from 1954

The Aberree was a 'zine, or newletter, published from 1954 through 1965. The editor, Alphia Hart, and the publisher, Agnes Hart, put out ten issues a year.

example:
FOURTH: The number of trustees selected for the first year of the existence of the said corporation shall be three and the names and post office addresses shall be as follows:
Names Post Office Addresses
L. Ron Hubbard, Sr., Medford Lakes, N.J
Mary Sue Hubbard, Medford Lakes, N.J
John Galusha, RR.1, Box 394, Pueblo, Colo.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, we have hereunto set our hands and seals this 18th day of December, 1953.
L. Ron Hubbard, Sr. (Seal)
L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. (Seal)
Henrietta Hubbard (Seal)
John Galusha (Seal)
Barbara Bryan (Seal)
Verna Greenough (Seal)
Signed, sealed and delivered in the presence of:
Florence M. Davis
STATE OF NEW JERSEY:
COUNTY OF CAMDEN :
BE IT REMEMBERED, that on this 18th day of December, in the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and fifty-three before me, the undersigned authority personally appeared, L. Ron Hubbard, Sr., L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., Henrietta Hubbard, John Galusha, Verna Greenough and Barbara Bryan, who I am satisfied are the persons who executed the foregoing Certificate of Incorporation and acknowledged that they signed, sealed and delivered same as their act and deed. All of which is hereby certified.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

YES!!!

The Church of American Science!!!

Originally conceived as a church for christians to study dianetics

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

That's not party line.

There was NO prosecution against Hubbard when he left DC. NONE.

And the move to sea was planned for years before it happened. People who were there have posted many stories about the lengthy preparations which preceded Ron's departure from Saint Hill and once again there was NO prosecution being leveled against Hubbard in England. NONE.

The Internal Revenue Service awarded tax exemption to the California and Washington, D.C. churches in 1956 and 1957 respectively. In 1958, however, the Washington church lost its tax-exempt status on the grounds that its tenets and practices did not constitute an exclusively religious or educational activity.[7] A key factor in the revocation of its exemption was the issue of private inurement – the use of tax-exempt monies to benefit a non-tax-exempt individual or entity. The Court of Claims found that Hubbard and his family had profited from the Washington Church of Scientology. He had been given $108,000 over four years by the church, with the free use of a car and a private residence. His family had withdrawn thousands of dollars from the church's funds, and his wife Mary Sue had earned over $10,000 from renting property to it. Hubbard had also been tithed ten percent of the church's gross income.[8] The church appealed to the US Court of Claims, but lost. The court ruled that Scientology was a "business, a profit-making organization run by Hubbard for his personal enrichment."[7]
In 1959, Hubbard moved to England where he purchased Saint Hill Manor in East Sussex to serve as a family home and world headquarters of Scientology.[9] Over the following seven years, he tried repeatedly to establish a tax-exempt corporate vehicle in the United Kingdom by establishing multiple limited companies under the aegis of various Scientology entities and applying for non-profit status. However, the British Inland Revenue consistently refused the applications

******

I'll repeat the audited FACTS
In 1958,,,,,,,,,,, private inurement – the use of tax-exempt monies to benefit a non-tax-exempt individual or entity. The Court of Claims found that Hubbard and his family had profited from the Washington Church of Scientology. He had been given $108,000 over four years by the church, with the free use of a car and a private residence. His family had withdrawn thousands of dollars from the church's funds, and his wife Mary Sue had earned over $10,000 from renting property to it. Hubbard had also been tithed ten percent of the church's gross income.[8] The church appealed to the US Court of Claims, but lost. The court ruled that Scientology was a "business, a profit-making organization run by Hubbard for his personal enrichment."[7]
In 1959, Hubbard moved to England

 

[Bill]

<snip>
Hubbard is resoundingly excoriated as a person in order to negate and avoid the ideas

Nope, you have it backwards, as usual. Hubbard's "tech" wasn't negated by Hubbard being bad-mouthed Hubbard was bad-mouthed because his "tech" was invalidated -- by his own ever-moving promises that never happened.

 

[Type4_PTS]

<snip>
The Court of Claims found that Hubbard and his family had profited from the Washington Church of Scientology. He had been given $108,000 over four years by the church, with the free use of a car and a private residence. His family had withdrawn thousands of dollars from the church's funds, and his wife Mary Sue had earned over $10,000 from renting property to it. Hubbard had also been tithed ten percent of the church's gross income.[8] The church appealed to the US Court of Claims, but lost. The court ruled that Scientology was a "business, a profit-making organization run by Hubbard for his personal enrichment."[7]
<snip>

Adjusted for inflation, $108,000 would be equivalent to about $900,000 at present, about $4325/week when spread over 4 years.
Not too bad when he also had free use of a car and a private residence.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Adjusted for inflation, $108,000 would be equivalent to about $900,000 at present, about $4325/week when spread over 4 years.
Not too bad when he also had free use of a car and a private residence.

The whole world should be grateful. Rounding the figures somewhat that is a mere dime per person who has gotten on the bridge to total freedom . Ron, mankind's greatest friend.

Myself, I am investing in low altitude glaciers coz either I win big or the swimming fish will win. Fish still swim don't they?

Speaking of Ron, the more of his messengers we hear from, the more beneficial this thread will be to the whole mosaic.

 

[Gib]

All kinds of nuggets in "The Compleat Aberree" https://www.aberree.com from 1954

The Aberree was a 'zine, or newletter, published from 1954 through 1965. The editor, Alphia Hart, and the publisher, Agnes Hart, put out ten issues a year.

example:
FOURTH: The number of trustees selected for the first year of the existence of the said corporation shall be three and the names and post office addresses shall be as follows:
Names Post Office Addresses
L. Ron Hubbard, Sr., Medford Lakes, N.J
Mary Sue Hubbard, Medford Lakes, N.J
John Galusha, RR.1, Box 394, Pueblo, Colo.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, we have hereunto set our hands and seals this 18th day of December, 1953.
L. Ron Hubbard, Sr. (Seal)
L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. (Seal)
Henrietta Hubbard (Seal)
John Galusha (Seal)
Barbara Bryan (Seal)
Verna Greenough (Seal)
Signed, sealed and delivered in the presence of:
Florence M. Davis
STATE OF NEW JERSEY:
COUNTY OF CAMDEN :
BE IT REMEMBERED, that on this 18th day of December, in the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and fifty-three before me, the undersigned authority personally appeared, L. Ron Hubbard, Sr., L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., Henrietta Hubbard, John Galusha, Verna Greenough and Barbara Bryan, who I am satisfied are the persons who executed the foregoing Certificate of Incorporation and acknowledged that they signed, sealed and delivered same as their act and deed. All of which is hereby certified.

I read those, have you read the letters between hubbard and heinlein, and between heinlein and campbell?

which are before those aberree write-ups?

I might add, Agnes and the Aberree letters, never knew of the hienlein letters between hubbard and heinlein, and between heinlein and cambell, at the time. If they only knew at the time they may have written different things like it's all rhetoric.

 

[Gib]

Well, he did earn a penny a word as a fiction author. Presumably he must have written, and saved the proceeds from, 130,570,600 words of fiction. That would have to exclude the works of fiction that have been included in the $25 million listed copyrights and trademarks. Which must mean that there are 130,570,600 words of books out there by Hubbard under pen-names, that didn't get bought back.

I heard on the rumour line that "George Orwell" was just a pen-name. When was 1984 written again? 1948? Around the time that Hubbard was penning the Original Thesis, which is, what, 50,000 word? That's funny. 130,570,600 - 50,000 = 130,520,600, which happens to be the exact number of words that Sigmund Freud wrote after 1917, when Hubbard was around the age of 6, plus the entire literary output of the Buddha.

Oh, wait! It's all beginning to make sense now. Shit, where is that bulletin on how to do the A-E steps again?

What cracks me up, laughing, is that Hubbard never wrote millions of words, it's all a PR stint. the actual truth is hubbard spoke millions of words into recording devices and those words were transcribed in words, and yet Hubbard and the COS say he wrote millions of words.

So, in actual fact, hubbard monetized his spoken word to a captive audience and at a pretty penny, and it is PR'd as written. LOL

DM has capitalized on this, or monetized, Hubbards words, spoken and written.

In the end it's all bullshit, as no clears or OT's.

What a money machine to a captive metaphysical audience.

 

[Gib]

Hubbard got top line royalties on his books. CoS covered his primary living expenses and he didn't live ostentatiously. Using his substantial royalty income to make investments $25 mil is sensible enough.

And...

If he was moving church funds around they went back to CSI

I don't begrudge the man a penny he ever took in personally and if you think about it, considering he's been dead more thirty years, HOWLING about his prosperity doesn't make for first rate discussion of he IDEAS.


"First rate people talk about ideas, second rate people talk about things, third rate people talk about people."

his IDEAS thru dianetics and Scientology was that a individual could achieve clear and then OT.

The man's idea's are false.

How many people you clear or audit to OT or audit to clear?

 

[Gib]

In my life away from ESMB I am very tolerant of other people's beliefs. I've got friends and family from different cultures, with different religious beliefs, and from different political parties. We've never let that get in the way of relationships.

But here on ESMB which is (in part) a discussion forum about Scientology, it's different. This board cannot really serve any real purpose if we're not allowed to express our honest opinions about CoS, Scientology, and related subjects, or to comment on the opinions of others.
While many friendships have been made here on ESMB over the years, most people don't come here with that as their primary purpose.
Many come in an attempt to figure out WTF happened to them, or to understand the true nature of Scientology and the CoS, and to recover from the damage suffered by having gotten sucked into a cult. But if we refrain from being honest with each other out of fear of offending others I feel we're doing a disservice to each other, and to those lurking here.

If someone wishes to practice Scientology in their life and believe that Hubbard was the reincarnation of Buddha or whomever, people have a right to believe whatever they wish, as long as they're not harming others.

What I do take issue with though is when someone comes here to ESMB with an agenda to promote Scientology as a positive thing and promote Hubbard as "mankind's greatest friend" or some other similar bullshit. Because that IS harmful to others, and can cause others to fall into a trap many of us got out of.

And if someone does such a thing on ESMB we can and should respond to it IMO.

The trick is to do it in a way which aligns with a post from Ethercat and @Mick Wenlock from 6 years ago (both Admins at the time) which included this:


In heated arguments I've been guilty of violating that in the past, but try my best these days to adhere to it.
If someone says something I disagree with I might respond to it, but target the idea, not the one promoting it.
Many genuinely good-intentioned people have beliefs that are false and/or harmful. But attacking them
personally isn't going to lead them to any realization.

All that said, if someone newly out of the CoS comes here to ESMB, I'm not going to jump all over them, forcefully refuting their ideas they may have about Scientology. That would just overwhelm some people, causing them to leave. It can take years to remove the cult BS out of your head, and many newly out don't even realize yet that it's in their head.

I thought scientology, the so called religion, was not about beliefs?

It's supposed to be about certainty. LOL


Scientology is a crock of shit, and it ain't no religion.

Jeez.

I mean if you believe sientology is a religion, then you believe you can go "clear" and the OT.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

I read those, have you read the letters between hubbard and heinlein, and between heinlein and campbell?

which are before those aberree write-ups?

I might add, Agnes and the Aberree letters, never knew of the hienlein letters between hubbard and heinlein, and between heinlein and cambell, at the time. If they only knew at the time they may have written different things like it's all rhetoric.

Ain't read those.I know you recommended them ...but my days are quite full..maybe I will just try to grok them next time I am laying at the bottom of the pool holding my breath for the first real Clear to appear.