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'Confront' with $cientologists

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
I have been chatting to my daughter, who is still 'in' on Facebook for quite a while now.
Its a great way to keep up with her.
As she is still 'in' altho inactive, we have good contact.
We tend not to discuss the subject of the cult.

Just a few days ago her Grandmother (about 70 and still in, ex-SO)) joined Facebook, which pretty much completes the whole family being on there, and able to read everybody's posts, joke about etc.
I noticed she had joined and we became 'friends'.
It has been many years since we saw eachother.
We exchanged a few mails, wishing eachother the best etc, and astounded at how long it had been. (she has been very ill and had to leave the SO )
I could tell her Grandma was elated at all the contacts and just happy about things.
Sometimes on there I will post a link to a site for my friends to see as part of my daily blog, sometimes a video from youtube.
I know my daughter can see this, but she accepts that I am 'out' and is fine about it.
Today I posted a link to the 'ex-scientology-kids' site, which the Grandma can see on my daily blog (if she looks).
I noted that the site was created by David Miscavige neice, and reported on the abuses in the SO.

Promptly just hours after me posting it I noticed that the Grandma has removed me as a 'friend'.

Isn't this just typical of the $cientologists?
Just try and pretend its all not there and bury your head in the sand.

I do forgive her, as she is a lovely person really.
For this type of abused SO member I really wonder if they will EVER wake up.
But its ok.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I have been chatting to my daughter, who is still 'in' on Facebook for quite a while now.
Its a great way to keep up with her.
As she is still 'in' altho inactive, we have good contact.
We tend not to discuss the subject of the cult.

Just a few days ago her Grandmother (about 70 and still in, ex-SO)) joined Facebook, which pretty much completes the whole family being on there, and able to read everybody's posts, joke about etc.
I noticed she had joined and we became 'friends'.
It has been many years since we saw eachother.
We exchanged a few mails, wishing eachother the best etc, and astounded at how long it had been. (she has been very ill and had to leave the SO )
I could tell her Grandma was elated at all the contacts and just happy about things.
Sometimes on there I will post a link to a site for my friends to see as part of my daily blog, sometimes a video from youtube.
I know my daughter can see this, but she accepts that I am 'out' and is fine about it.
Today I posted a link to the 'ex-scientology-kids' site, which the Grandma can see on my daily blog (if she looks).
I noted that the site was created by David Miscavige neice, and reported on the abuses in the SO.

Promptly just hours after me posting it I noticed that the Grandma has removed me as a 'friend'.

Isn't this just typical of the $cientologists?
Just try and pretend its all not there and bury your head in the sand.

I do forgive her, as she is a lovely person really.
For this type of abused SO member I really wonder if they will EVER wake up.
But its ok.

That's sad mate.
Give her time, maybe curiosity will make her change her mind after a while. :yes:
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
Yeah, its normal - Scnists remove any entheta off their lines, effectively burying their heads in the sand.

I recently recieved a letter from someone still in, Id told him why I left staff, and can he please let his wife know why. He said he will not pass that data on to his wife, and if I continue to "distribute" my opinion, he will advise my ex husband to take legal proceedings against me (one of the big reasons I left was because my ex was violent).

There is no duplication, only "this is not pro-Scn, get it off my lines".
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I recently had a chance to interact with a true-blue Scientologist who was no longer in the Church.

I was making a play for this person to get involved on ESMB because I thought they would be a valuable asset here. What I got back was something I've seen from so many Scientologists over the years, and it helped me to identify a pattern in the Scientology Mindset:

This person first talked about all the vitally important work they were doing, and how busy, busy, busy they were in handling all that they were handling. (They were Very Very IMPORTANT)

And then this person said this:

I need to make sure that there is no negativity on my lines so I can keep doing what I am doing. My interpretation of this was - "I need to keep being who I am".

These weren't the exact words, but this was the essential concept that was being delivered to me.

I thought about it.

"Entheta" and "Negativity" are very much frowned upon in the Scientology Mindset because these two phenomena contain ideas that might run counter to the ideas you want to FOCUS ON in your head at all times.

And that's all.

The idea here is that differing viewpoints might get you thinking in ways that you have decided are not what you want to see, or ways that you haven't considered. And seeing things that you do not want to see, or seeing things in ways that have not yet occurred to you might change your mind about what you want your mind to be focused on - so these differing viewpoints are to be shunned at all costs.

Now, here's a question: WHO actually benefits from this mindset?

WHO was the one who FIRST came up with this way of operating that made it so vital for you to follow? Who made you believe that this operating basis would ever be successful?

I don't think it was the Scientologist himself, originally.

This way of operating was installed by L Ron Hubbard because THAT'S WHAT HE NEEDED TO KEEP YOU LOYAL AND PAYING HIM.

This person has simply adopted the idea that other viewpoints are BAD for your effectiveness.

What? How did that consideration ever get adopted?

When you really look at that, it is easy to see that it is TOTAL BULLSHIT.

Other ideas, and other viewpoints, HELP a person to evaluate their own actions. They introduce new ideas and strategies that you, alone, may not have thought of.

There is no such thing as "entheta".

There is only your own monoideastic drive to keep things the way they are in your own mind at all costs.

Again - I think it was not your original purpose.

I think it was L Ron Hubbard's.
 

ILived1984!

Patron with Honors
Wow. The Grandmother is out of the SO b/c she is very ill. There goes the part of the SO where they take care of medical. Sad to hear that.

I had a friend who was recently declared (2 months ago) who had a bunch of Facebook friends who were still "in". People started deleting their friends link to my friend and I recieved two messages from two different people warding off communication to her. I told both of those people to screw off, no one tells me who to be in touch with (very paraphased as I also went into how illogical it was to just stop being a friend of someone when they haven't done anything to warrant it). In the end almost 100 "in" Scns left her Facebook in a matter of a few weeks!

I have been chatting to my daughter, who is still 'in' on Facebook for quite a while now.
Its a great way to keep up with her.
As she is still 'in' altho inactive, we have good contact.
We tend not to discuss the subject of the cult.

Just a few days ago her Grandmother (about 70 and still in, ex-SO)) joined Facebook, which pretty much completes the whole family being on there, and able to read everybody's posts, joke about etc.
I noticed she had joined and we became 'friends'.
It has been many years since we saw eachother.
We exchanged a few mails, wishing eachother the best etc, and astounded at how long it had been. (she has been very ill and had to leave the SO )
I could tell her Grandma was elated at all the contacts and just happy about things.
Sometimes on there I will post a link to a site for my friends to see as part of my daily blog, sometimes a video from youtube.
I know my daughter can see this, but she accepts that I am 'out' and is fine about it.
Today I posted a link to the 'ex-scientology-kids' site, which the Grandma can see on my daily blog (if she looks).
I noted that the site was created by David Miscavige neice, and reported on the abuses in the SO.

Promptly just hours after me posting it I noticed that the Grandma has removed me as a 'friend'.

Isn't this just typical of the $cientologists?
Just try and pretend its all not there and bury your head in the sand.

I do forgive her, as she is a lovely person really.
For this type of abused SO member I really wonder if they will EVER wake up.
But its ok.
 

ILived1984!

Patron with Honors
Alanzo, this is extremely well put! :thumbsup:

When you asked "Now, here's a question: WHO actually benefits from this mindset?", I was totally saying HUBBARD!!!!

Again, great post! :D

I recently had a chance to interact with a true-blue Scientologist who was no longer in the Church.

I was making a play for this person to get involved on ESMB because I thought they would be a valuable asset here. What I got back was something I've seen from so many Scientologists over the years, and it helped me to identify a pattern in the Scientology Mindset:

This person first talked about all the vitally important work they were doing, and how busy, busy, busy they were in handling all that they were handling. (They were Very Very IMPORTANT)

And then this person said this:

I need to make sure that there is no negativity on my lines so I can keep doing what I am doing. My interpretation of this was - "I need to keep being who I am".

These weren't the exact words, but this was the essential concept that was being delivered to me.

I thought about it.

"Entheta" and "Negativity" are very much frowned upon in the Scientology Mindset because these two phenomena contain ideas that might run counter to the ideas you want to FOCUS ON in your head at all times.

And that's all.

The idea here is that differing viewpoints might get you thinking in ways that you have decided are not what you want to see, or ways that you haven't considered. And seeing things that you do not want to see, or seeing things in ways that have not yet occurred to you might change your mind about what you want your mind to be focused on - so these differing viewpoints are to be shunned at all costs.

Now, here's a question: WHO actually benefits from this mindset?

WHO was the one who FIRST came up with this way of operating that made it so vital for you to follow? Who made you believe that this operating basis would ever be successful?

I don't think it was the Scientologist himself, originally.

This way of operating was installed by L Ron Hubbard because THAT'S WHAT HE NEEDED TO KEEP YOU LOYAL AND PAYING HIM.

This person has simply adopted the idea that other viewpoints are BAD for your effectiveness.

What? How did that consideration ever get adopted?

When you really look at that, it is easy to see that it is TOTAL BULLSHIT.

Other ideas, and other viewpoints, HELP a person to evaluate their own actions. They introduce new ideas and strategies that you, alone, may not have thought of.

There is no such thing as "entheta".

There is only your own monoideastic drive to keep things the way they are in your own mind at all costs.

Again - I think it was not your original purpose.

I think it was L Ron Hubbard's.
 
related issues which come to mind.

I have been looking on the net about "controlling-types".
I read that they do not "get" the person(s) they are controlling.
They do not see them properly because they are thinking too much about ways to be in control - that leads them to define other people rather than see how others reveal themselves to be. Scio teaches people to define others
incessantly and it does make it seem, when you do that, that you are in control of things.

Another thing is the avoidance of "entheta". I have noticed that it is not just scientologists that do that. When you just want to say you feel like crap because you have the flu, some people instantly put up barriers. Sometimes I want to say "for fuck sake, I am not going to ruin your day by talking about how bad I feel for three hours, - I just want one or two sentences."
Shit happens. It is ok to listen for a minute and move on.
 

riptide

Patron with Honors
"Entheta" and "Negativity" are very much frowned upon in the Scientology Mindset because these two phenomena contain ideas that might run counter to the ideas you want to FOCUS ON in your head at all times.

And that's all.

The idea here is that differing viewpoints might get you thinking in ways that you have decided are not what you want to see, or ways that you haven't considered. And seeing things that you do not want to see, or seeing things in ways that have not yet occurred to you might change your mind about what you want your mind to be focused on - so these differing viewpoints are to be shunned at all costs.
.

Alonzo, yes i see your point. Briefly I want to add that I believe the "head in the sand" knee jerk reaction is a function of social programming, and that the person (the "good" Scientologist) will instinctively seek to attenuate anything that reminds them of the long trail of instances where reality and integrity were comprimised. These may be very heavily suppressed, but they are there, hence, considered at one time, but suppressed.

In otherwords, I see a person with a bag over their head, and then sticking it in the sand. Multi phase mechanic. Now I need a cookie I am so proud of myself.
 

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
my daughters comment on this

In the mean time my daughter has commented on my link (on my Facebook page)

---------------------------------------------
She says:

"oh dad, I wish you wouldnt post that. I really dont like seeing that. I know its your right to look up whatever you choose and share and all, but this makes me a bit uneasy..."
---------------------------------------------

The thing is, she knows that all the members and friends we have can see my blogs on my page, but she would prefer everything to be all positive and withouth 'Entheta', and then we would all get along fine etc.

I replied to her comment on there:

"Somtimes its important to look at both sides of a subject, not just the side propgated by a group. I think its called in the jargon 'confront',.....sorry....."

She didn't grow up with me, but we have had contact over the yrs, and when we met after many yrs, just 3 months ago, I did tell her that I would not 'shove' my awakening from the cult down her throat, but may now and again give her sometihng to read, and that I would find it good if she would actually read it, to which she agreed.
But I did say I was not going to be doing that very often, and that I love her whatever her decision is.

She is actually meant to be doing a 'basics' course, but doesn't seem to be onlines much at all, due to leading a pretty active private life, which I love to observe and take part in on the Facebook site. (lots of partying...lol)

Her Grandma, however, who I mentioned before, and is also on the basics course leaves messages on her site about how great $cn is, and how wonderful it all is.
On their site I can see the links to the front groups on Anti-drugs and Anti-psychs.

Ok, I can accept that.
And I did tell her that I found some basic stuff in $cientology useful, and that she should be careful about parting with large sums of money.
(which she deosnt have anyway?

My daughter is in an awkward situation, as her mother and I (her biological father) have seen the fraud and read stuff on the net and have told her about our getting 'out', but she has siblins and grandparents, and friends still 'in'.
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
"Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone" has been around for a long time, and Norman Vincent Peale's "The power of positive thinking" (interestingly this was published in 1952). And for the most part, I agree with not being a whiner and keeping a positive attitude. Of course. Kind of goes without saying.

But what is so stupid about the Scientology mindset is the complete discounting of anything that is different than your reality, and the assumption that any other veiwpoint is bad or "entheta". In real life, you have to deal with alternative viewpoints. You have to be able to evaluate them and work with them. This is one of the reasons Scientology won't succeed. . . Scientologists can't work with anyone, or communicate effectively because there is only one reality. They live in an artificial world that's going to crumble.


It's so ironic that Scientologists believe that they are becoming better at communicating, and better at seeing other viewpoints, all the while tightening their blinders. It's truly a mindf---.

But the fact is that staying positive and keeping your eye on the prize is a good thing. BUT in order to do that you have to use the resources around you. You have to be aware of what's going on in your sphere of influence. Sticking your head in the sand is not a highly recommended model for success or happiness.


-TL
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
"Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone" has been around for a long time, and Norman Vincent Peale's "The power of positive thinking" (interestingly this was published in 1952). And for the most part, I agree with not being a whiner and keeping a positive attitude. Of course. Kind of goes without saying.

But what is so stupid about the Scientology mindset is the complete discounting of anything that is different than your reality, and the assumption that any other veiwpoint is bad or "entheta". In real life, you have to deal with alternative viewpoints. You have to be able to evaluate them and work with them. This is one of the reasons Scientology won't succeed. . . Scientologists can't work with anyone, or communicate effectively because there is only one reality. They live in an artificial world that's going to crumble.


It's so ironic that Scientologists believe that they are becoming better at communicating, and better at seeing other viewpoints, all the while tightening their blinders. It's truly a mindf---.

But the fact is that staying positive and keeping your eye on the prize is a good thing. BUT in order to do that you have to use the resources around you. You have to be aware of what's going on in your sphere of influence. Sticking your head in the sand is not a highly recommended model for success or happiness.


-TL

I was going to say that I have seen this operating basis elsewhere than in Scientology.

I know a guy who was a champion golfer in college. And today, he uses the same kind of mindset in whatever he does: decide that your goal is perfect and block out all negative information to that goal.

Works well on a golf course.

In real life, not so much.
 
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