Conversations with OSA personnel in the current climate

[Feral]

Carmel certainly did the right thing, it is good manners to acknowledge a rightness even in an opponent. It is also fair to concede that they have done the right thing when in fact they do. It encourages better behavior.

A more intelligent reachable OSA may be an unrealistic dream, but I'd encourage any sensible action from the existing one.

 

[scooter]

Seems to me like there's a revolution going on and we're just seeing the tip of it.

Hubbard was adamant to never defend but "get to a safe place and speak up."

So the cult loses every time it should defend and doesn't, because it's not allowed to defend, only attack.

It violates the rules of warfare, but the ronbots can't think with that.

So to virtually admit that someone lower down the food chain got it wrong and it's now being fxed - and to a critic at that - is a major shift.

Probably born of desperation but a shift nevertheless.

But OSA, it's "Too Little, Too Late."

The Allies didn't bargain with the Nazis while the Russians were entering Berlin - they had the war won.

Right now you are besieged by Anons and Exes, governments despise you (except those few provincial ones you have safely bought) and the Press is baying for your blood.

Xenu on prime-time is just another indicator of how besieged you really are.

There's no cavalry coming over the hill.

Your look at the future has to be more than this week's stats - try looking at next month's jobs page.

I'm not being harsh.

I'm breaking it as gently as I can.

The bell is tolling.

 

[Alanzo]

Kookaberra -

I don't know if you've noticed, but "Obnoxious and UnCalled For" is my middle name.

I do not think my point is obnoxious and uncalled for, but the way I have expressed it has obviously hurt Carmel's feelings and others' sensibilities.

I am sorry for appearing to be so callous.

But let's take a look at this development from OSA: targeted little "leaks" or "releases", through trusted ESMB members, who let the board know of all the ways that the Church is improving.

It's not improvement, it's manipulation.

And we have no proof whatsoever that this staff member actually received medical care. In fact, I would not put it past them to be lying.

And, again, WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHERS? What about the systemic worldwide Church policy to deny stafff members basic medical care and human rights?

I hope that I am not the only one who is seeing that this "development" allows the Church to stay exactly the same while APPEARING to be changing to some of the people who are most vocal and most visible to the public: ESMB.

I believe that every ESMB member who allows themselves to be an OSA conduit on this caper of theirs is actually holding back progress - not forwarding it.

I'm not blaming Carmel for doing something humane. My target is THIS NEW OSA OPERATION.

Which it clearly is.

 

[Carmel]

I do not think my point is obnoxious and uncalled for, but the way I have expressed it has obviously hurt Carmel's feelings and others' sensibilities.

It wasn't that I had hurt feelings, Alanzo - your incorrect assumptions just pissed me off.

But let's take a look at this development from OSA: targeted little "leaks" or "releases", through trusted ESMB members, who let the board know of all the ways that the Church is improving.

It's not improvement, it's manipulation.

I didn't state or imply or think for one minute that the church was improving. To me this is a 'twist' of what was stated.

And we have no proof whatsoever that this staff member actually received medical care. In fact, I would not put it past them to be lying.

I do - and for the record, I didn't post about the kid getting the care he needed, until I had the proof.

And, again, WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHERS? What about the systemic worldwide Church policy to deny stafff members basic medical care and human rights?

There is no argument or debate on this. You're preaching to the converted on this.

I hope that I am not the only one who is seeing that this "development" allows the Church to stay exactly the same while APPEARING to be changing to some of the people who are most vocal and most visible to the public: ESMB.

WTF? The church changing their tack or strategy, is very different to "APPEARING to be changing"

I believe that every ESMB member who allows themselves to be an OSA conduit on this caper of theirs is actually holding back progress - not forwarding it.

Quite frankly the thought of alerting the CofS to a "potential flap" that they could avert, made me more than slightly uncomfortable. I'd rather have whatever possible, blow up in their faces. I didn't seem to have a choice on this one though. In this instance, it seemed worth it.

One of the reasons I posted about it, after the fact, was to alert others to their new tactic or strat - I found it odd to see the CofS on the defence. I too expect people to read between the lines at times.

My target is THIS NEW OSA OPERATION.

Fair enough, and so it should be.

 

[Alanzo]

Carmel -

Then why are we arguing?

Why are you getting so pissed off at what I am saying - even after I try my best to fucking explain myself - TWICE?

Why does your target seem to be ME and not the point I am making?

 

[Carmel]

Carmel -

Then why are we arguing?

Why are you getting so pissed off at what I am saying - even after I try my best to fucking explain myself - TWICE?

Why does your target seem to be ME and not the point I am making?

You are NOT my target Alanzo.

In a nutshell, I got pissed off because you have inferred or indicated that I have been sucked in by OSA and going in to bat for OSA, when nothing could be further from the truth. Despite your explanations, you have not yet acknowledged this.

It's late for me now, I'll pm you sometime in my morning.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Seems to me like there's a revolution going on and we're just seeing the tip of it.

Hubbard was adamant to never defend but "get to a safe place and speak up."

So the cult loses every time it should defend and doesn't, because it's not allowed to defend, only attack.

It violates the rules of warfare, but the ronbots can't think with that.

So to virtually admit that someone lower down the food chain got it wrong and it's now being fxed - and to a critic at that - is a major shift.

Probably born of desperation but a shift nevertheless.

But OSA, it's "Too Little, Too Late."

The Allies didn't bargain with the Nazis while the Russians were entering Berlin - they had the war won.

Right now you are besieged by Anons and Exes, governments despise you (except those few provincial ones you have safely bought) and the Press is baying for your blood.

Xenu on prime-time is just another indicator of how besieged you really are.

There's no cavalry coming over the hill.

Your look at the future has to be more than this week's stats - try looking at next month's jobs page.

I'm not being harsh.

I'm breaking it as gently as I can.

The bell is tolling.

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Failure to acknowledge...

Carmel -

Then why are we arguing?

Why are you getting so pissed off at what I am saying - even after I try my best to fucking explain myself - TWICE?

Why does your target seem to be ME and not the point I am making?

You are NOT my target Alanzo.

In a nutshell, I got pissed off because you have inferred or indicated that I have been sucked in by OSA and going in to bat for OSA, when nothing could be further from the truth. Despite your explanations, you have not yet acknowledged this.

It's late for me now, I'll pm you sometime in my morning.

Alonzo, I have spent a fair amount of time re-reading, carefully, this thread - I hope you have also done so.

Apparently, you have still not duplicated Carmel's communications and have not acknowledged them, insofar as I can see.

Your repeated "explanations" appear to be simply asserting you own rightness and leave a void where an acknowledgment is needed to end cycle.

This is how I see it - and I'm pretty sure my grandmother would agree if she were around. She certainly was never a scio - but she was as good an auditor as I've ever seen.

She would prolly have said sumphin like this to you..."would it break yer fool jaw to apologize?"

The above is my opinion, for what it's worth.

EP

 

[Alanzo]

OK

Carmel wrote:

In a nutshell, I got pissed off because you have inferred or indicated that I have been sucked in by OSA and going in to bat for OSA, when nothing could be further from the truth. Despite your explanations, you have not yet acknowledged this.

Well, when I think about this, I really don't know what else you were supposed to do, or how else you were supposed to handle it.

Maybe I did infer or indicate that you were sucked in or were going to bat for OSA, by default, because looking at it now, I can not think of any different way to handle it than you did. I didn't realize that I wasn't thinking of a better way to handle it - only reacting to what appeared to be someone assisting an OSA PR handling on ESMB.

So I'm sorry.

I truly do not know what else you were supposed to do.

And to Panda, once again, you were right. This particular inference or assumption was out of line.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

How very unusual.

 

[Panda Termint]

Fair enough!

 

[Carmel]

OK

Carmel wrote:

Well, when I think about this, I really don't know what else you were supposed to do, or how else you were supposed to handle it.

Maybe I did infer or indicate that you were sucked in or were going to bat for OSA, by default, because looking at it now, I can not think of any different way to handle it than you did. I didn't realize that I wasn't thinking of a better way to handle it - only reacting to what appeared to be someone assisting an OSA PR handling on ESMB.

So I'm sorry.

I truly do not know what else you were supposed to do.

And to Panda, once again, you were right. This particular inference or assumption was out of line.

Thanks Alanzo.

I do understand the reaction you had, but I'm glad that you are now seeing it from another perspective.

All good, mate - our realities on all this, aren't so different after all.

 

[sparrow]

Flash Raided FCDC on February 24:

At the 7:30 mark, DC OSA's Sylvia Stanard has a good time on course...

and all I got was this lousy C&D Letter!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3yXT5rxteU&feature=channel_page

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Flash Raided FCDC on February 24:

At the 7:30 mark, DC OSA's Sylvia Stanard has a good time on course...

and all I got was this lousy C&D Letter!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3yXT5rxteU&feature=channel_page

They just keep asking for Anons to come back don't they.

 

[NOTQuentinStrub]

I'd like to point out that the Department of Special Affairs is not an OSA position. While it does receive information and report up to OSA (which is ONLY located in Los Angeles). DSA personnel (officers/trainees/ect) are NOT members of the Sea Organization and thus ARE NOT OSA.

 

[Zinjifar]

I'd like to point out that the Department of Special Affairs is not an OSA position. While it does receive information and report up to OSA (which is ONLY located in Los Angeles). DSA personnel (officers/trainees/ect) are NOT members of the Sea Organization and thus ARE NOT OSA.

However, the 'hat' is filled by an OSA/SO person wherever one is available.

Zinj