Convicted Scientology Criminals

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I think I get your point well enough Mick. I just don’t necessarily agree with all of it.

Leaving aside the fact that I was an abject failure at getting others into Scientology, perhaps my heart wasn’t in it? Does it matter that I was part of a suppressive group (for want of a better term)? The fact is, I believed at that time that what I was doing was right and my intentions were to do good. If I were to start judging all my previous actions by what I know now, not what I knew then, I would probably go mad.

In any case, I definitely changed as a result of Scientology. Some good, some bad.

And, perhaps none of it was unique to Scientology, but so what? If I got something positive from it, it was because I was a Scientologist. If someone said “My life has changed because of the teachings of Jesus Christ”. Would you say, “Well that’s not valid because Buddism or some other practice offers something similar”?

I don’t call myself a Scientologist now, but I like think that my time in wasn’t all wasted.

Axiom142

I understand the point about changing - yes we all changed because of our time in Scientology, no doubt about that.

You said in your original reply:

Whether or not I became more ethical is a debatable point, but I do believe that I have become more aware of my actions and the effect they might have on others. There are numerous principles and guidelines that I picked up during my time in the CoS that I find to be of benefit in helping me to live a better life.

and I asked you which ones they were.

AS for the comment "If I got something positive from it, it was because I was a Scientologist." - I am not sure what this means? Does it mean that you would never have gotten that point? Does it mean you only got that point because you were in Scientology? I am interested - I am not trying to score a debate point here, I promise.

Well yeah - we joined Scientology with the best of intentions - is that an excuse? I challenge the concept that people become more "ethical" when they join Scientology. I think the opposite is the case - Scientologists are, by and large, the biggest liars, the least helpful and one of the least ethical groups on the face of the earth.

It is OK with Scientologists to lie outright to non-Scientologists and, indeed, to other Scientologists - just one example. Scientologists stand by and watch families torn aart and do nothing - because they fear losing their own status. When Lisa McPherson lay dying in the Fort Harrison anyone could have called the Paramedics on 911 - not one person did so. I have yet to hear of any Scientologist anywhere stadning u at an event and challenging the speaker.


That you became a better person Axiom is something for you to be proud of and for us to appreciate - but the praise and kudos belong to you (IMHO) not to Scientology.
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
AS for the comment "If I got something positive from it, it was because I was a Scientologist." - I am not sure what this means? Does it mean that you would never have gotten that point? Does it mean you only got that point because you were in Scientology? I am interested - I am not trying to score a debate point here, I promise.

Mick, the point I was trying to make was that I found Scientology and because I applied it to my own life, I found myself undergoing changes to the way I thought and acted. Some of these changes were negative and I am still trying to undo the effects. But, some of them were positive, or at least that’s how they appear to me at the moment. Quite possibly I might have made similar changes to myself if I had taken up TM or become a Buddhist or something else. Or perhaps not, but in any case I became a Scientologist, so that’s what defined my life for over 20 years. That’s what I did, not something else.

Some of the things that I benefitted from are to do with looking honestly at my own actions and being able to assume another’s viewpoint and accepting that I might not always be right. And the most powerful one is taking responsibility. Not as blame, as happens so often in the CoS, but as a way of taking ownership and thus being in a position to correct a problem or improve things. I hate it when people say that things just happen to them and there is nothing they can do!

Well yeah - we joined Scientology with the best of intentions - is that an excuse?

It doesn't excuse everything, but if you don't have bad intentions in your heart, should you be castigated if things don't turn out the way you meant them to because of the actions of others with evil in their hearts?

I’m not trying to make excuses for what I did and what I believed in. Thankfully, I wasn’t a very good Scientologist in terms of getting others in and I don’t think that I was really nasty to anyone in the course of participating in Scientology. I’m sure that I was rather arrogant and ignorant at times, but I hope that I didn’t do anyone any lasting harm.

Unless you count making someone almost wet themselves at my antics while bullbaiting! :ohmy:

I challenge the concept that people become more "ethical" when they join Scientology. I think the opposite is the case - Scientologists are, by and large, the biggest liars, the least helpful and one of the least ethical groups on the face of the earth.

Undoubtedly this is very true for a great number of ‘dedicated’ Scientologists. Getting up the Bridge, or ensuring the safety of the ‘church’ or just bringing enough money in to survive can become the most important thing in the universe and thus justifies almost any action. “That person is a wog – serves them right if I don’t repay a loan – they are out ethics. Tax is a suppression of the up-stat – I shouldn’t pay it. It’s Ok to tell a few white lies if I can get a product, besides they’ll thank me in the end”.

I’m sure most of us have seen examples of this type of thinking. Trouble is, it leads you down a very dark and slippery path. Pretty soon, there’s no return.

That you became a better person Axiom is something for you to be proud of and for us to appreciate - but the praise and kudos belong to you (IMHO) not to Scientology.

I’m not trying to pretend that I’m anyone wonderful (I’d like to, but there are several on ESMB who have met me and know the truth!), but I do try and lead an honest life. There are certain principles and beliefs that are important to me. And I think that is true of many Scientologists – that’s why they joined. But, I also think that to remain in the CoS, you have to be willing to set aside many of these principles and beliefs. Otherwise, you just couldn’t fit in.

Axiom142
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
You're a good guy Axiom. That much is obvious from your postings; IRL not necessary.

But, I don't think I'll 'Thank Ron' or Scientology for that. Even if you do.

Zinj
 

shadow

Patron with Honors
http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0823067/index.shtm
Scientologist owned National Forclosure Relief...Chele and David are both Scientologists as are most of thier associates.

I worry about the criminals that do not get reported to the authorities because Sci has its own internal "justice" system? This prevents these people from facing real justice and allows them to continue doing what they do...similar to the priests the catholic church moved around and kept quiet about to protect the chruch's reputation. This self protection is demostrated by the sci group that allows bad acts to continue...that is not a good kind of "ethics" no matter how much benefit an individual is receiving.
 
Are there any Scientologists that have been convicted of a serious criminal offence that are still (as far as you know) serving in the church?
 

DCAnon

Silver Meritorious Patron
Are there any Scientologists that have been convicted of a serious criminal offence that are still (as far as you know) serving in the church?

Well, the ones convicted of murder, child rape and terrorism are still currently serving their sentences. Many of the people convicted for fraud, tax evasion, and monetary crimes are still members of the church. Off the top of my head, I can name Rick Pendery and Herb Zerden who are convicted criminals and current members. Unless I'm mistaken, Zerden is also at least an OTVI. I believe quite a few of the convicted Snow White conspirators and GO officials also returned as active members of the CoS.
 

DCAnon

Silver Meritorious Patron
Update 6/24/2009

Ben Kasle - convicted on June 4th 2009 on Count A ( a tier I sex offense reguiring sex registry in OH) after pleading nolo contendre ( neither admission or denial) to raping a child of 13-14 inside the Cincinnati Church of Scientology. [*]

Suzanne Montangero was sentenced in Switzerland with a suspended 15 days arrest, 2'000 Swiss francs torts and all the legal costs to pay in 2003 for diffamation of a critic (Jurg Stettler & Gabriella Arm. Les délits sacrés de la scientologie) and had a three days arrest commuted to a fine of 1'000 Swiss francs in 2002, for insubordination to a decision of the authority. (http://forums.whyweprotest.net/15-m...and-scientology-replacement-15385/#post285188)
 
Criminals

Someone should investigate Chris Estey.. I hear he's got quite a rap sheet here in Clearwater....I could name several other people that I personally know who have committed crimes and got away with it because the Scientology justice system of Wise does nothing to really seek justice, they just want both parties to keep quiet and stay off Flag lines!
 

byte301

Crusader
Let's not forget Wally Hanks, the perv who molested little girls at the Mace-Kingsley Ranch in New Mexico. The CoS protected him so he never had to answer for his crimes. He is still a member of the cult.
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
I never saw this thread either!

I think this name should be added, although Manson decided to move on and become his own Cult leader:

Charles Manson:

Vincent Bugliosi, prosecuting attorney in the Manson trial, made frequent mention of Scientology and one-time Scientologists with reference to Manson's life and career in his best-selling account of the case, Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders, published in 1974. Bugliosi served up all the details of Manson's drifting, troubled youth -an illegitimate child, he bounced from town to town, engaging in a haphazard string of petty crimes and larcenous acts. Seventeen of Manson's first thirty-two years were spent in jails and prisons, yet, Bugliosi noted, Manson's criminal record to that time showed no sustained history of violence.

"Burglar, car thief, forger, pimp," he wrote, "was this the portrait of a mass murderer?"

It was in prison, apparently, that Manson became interested in Scientology. According to Helter Skelter, in the early sixties, Manson's tutor in Scientology was another convict, Lanier Rayner, and under his direction Manson claimed to have achieved Scientology's highest level, which he described as "Theta clear:" Bugliosi wrote that Manson, whose career goal was to gain recognition as a rock musician, remained interested in Scientology longer than in any other subject except music. A prison progress report written during that period asserted that Manson "appears to have developed a certain amount of insight into his problems through his study of this discipline."

A lot more at this link:
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyscandals/charlesmanson.htm
 

Mystic

Crusader
Where have I been? I've n'er seen this thread before either.

So DCAnon, you can be a pain in my arse whenever you want.
 

PTSPal

Patron with Honors
Please correct me if I'm wrong;

:unsure: Wasn't Moxon involved in op snow white? didn't his name come up in the documentation?
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Please correct me if I'm wrong;

:unsure: Wasn't Moxon involved in op snow white? didn't his name come up in the documentation?

'Unindicted co-conspirator' is the phrase I've heard in connection with this.

"The New York Times reported that Scientology attorney, Kendrick L. Moxon, Esq., who was also an unindicted co-conspirator in the United States v. Hubbard prosecution, had paid over one million dollars to private investigators to “dig up the dirt” on I.R.S. officials. There are persistent allegations that Scientology agents set up either the I.R.S. Commissioner or his son in a statutory rape sting and then used that to blackmail the I.R.S. into waiving over a billion dollars of past-dues taxes, interest and penalties against the Scientology enterprise and its leader David Miscavige."
from http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5954
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Re: Convicted Scientology Criminals + One Guilty Plea -- Updated December 12, 2013

Adding Scientology's Devon Campbell Newman to this revelatory thread. :ohmy:

While waiting for updates from the Rathbun v Scientology hearing tomorrow, this thread* is an excellent source of information to review.
(*It's also fun/educational to spot the 'derail tek' failures.)

Link to ESMB thread about the guilty plea here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...r!-(Raw-Story)&p=886139&viewfull=1#post886139

Scientologist pleads guilty in sovereign citizen plot to kidnap and kill a police officer
By Travis Gettys
Thursday, December 12, 2013 15:17 EST

A former high-ranking Scientologist pleaded guilty Thursday in connection with a plot to kill Las Vegas police officers to advance her sovereign citizen views.

Devon Newman, a former paralegal and public relations director of Scientology’s “Celebrity Center,” accepted a plea agreement on conspiracy to commit false imprisonment, a gross misdemeanor that carried a possible one-year jail term.

But a judge gave the 68-year-old Newman one year on probation and ordered her to have no contact with her former co-defendant, David Allen Brutsche.

The 42-year-old Brutsche, a convicted sex offender from California, remains jailed on $200,000 bond pending a March 10 trial on a felony conspiracy to commit kidnapping charge that carries a possible six-year prison term.

<snip>
Read Full Story: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/1...olice-officer/


Link to original ESMB thread when the story first broke in the main stream media in August 2013 here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...nter-Arrested!&p=837178&viewfull=1#post837178

JB
 
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