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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I have been caused by recent events to look at what might in fact be the biggest tragedy and travesty of what is “scientology.”

I will later post on the nature of the “recent events,” but for now will post on what I see the great trap of Scientology to be.

Hubbard made many absolute claims: and in this he was either delusional or a knowing liar. One can later argue which, or whether it was both at once or at different times.

The fact is he claimed absolute, complete and accurate answers.

And the tragedy of this is that those who have accepted this have a false situation and scenario in their existence. They have incomplete and also messed up case situations masked and misrepresented by the falsehood that each part addressed of their particular “case area/scenario” is handled.

And the consequence of this is that the difficulties they continue to have with their “case”: the BPC, life difficulties and upsets are often made unfixable because the truth of what is out is masked and hidden below a false belief that there is nothing there because it has been handled . . . and this results in these folks searching elsewhere in “all the wrong places for the wrong whys” of their difficulties.

And that, indeed, is a catastrophic situation for them.

Had Hubbard been more honest, more real, it would have been a valid endeavor had he presented his work on the basis that it is a work in progress and that there is much to do and that we will be needing to continue to search and work to get it all complete.

But NO! He presented it as complete with all right answers known. And that is a falsehood.

I hope knowing this benefits those with an interest in these things.

RogerB


Don't worry yourself Roger, because as soon as a person dumps scientology they are able to also dump the silly concept of "case" ... and free themselves of all the pointless over thinking and become whomever they really are again.

There is no need at all for concern and definitely no need to replace one silly tek with another.

It's all good ... nothing to worry about at all.


:happydance:




 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
'Case' as put forward by Hubbard, doesn't exist. Just live your life according to your own best judgement. Trust yourself and trust the process of life. Hubbard makes it all much more difficult.
 

draetti

Patron
I have been caused by recent events to look at what might in fact be the biggest tragedy and travesty of what is “scientology.”

I will later post on the nature of the “recent events,” but for now will post on what I see the great trap of Scientology to be.

Hubbard made many absolute claims: and in this he was either delusional or a knowing liar. One can later argue which, or whether it was both at once or at different times.

The fact is he claimed absolute, complete and accurate answers.

And the tragedy of this is that those who have accepted this have a false situation and scenario in their existence. They have incomplete and also messed up case situations masked and misrepresented by the falsehood that each part addressed of their particular “case area/scenario” is handled.

And the consequence of this is that the difficulties they continue to have with their “case”: the BPC, life difficulties and upsets are often made unfixable because the truth of what is out is masked and hidden below a false belief that there is nothing there because it has been handled . . . and this results in these folks searching elsewhere in “all the wrong places for the wrong whys” of their difficulties.

And that, indeed, is a catastrophic situation for them.

Had Hubbard been more honest, more real, it would have been a valid endeavor had he presented his work on the basis that it is a work in progress and that there is much to do and that we will be needing to continue to search and work to get it all complete.

But NO! He presented it as complete with all right answers known. And that is a falsehood.

I hope knowing this benefits those with an interest in these things.

RogerB

That's the best short summary what happened which I have run across. (Best = of course: most in agreement with my views.) The only concept in it which I protest is: "to get it all complete". It never will be complete - it may once become so obsolete that it's of no significance anymore, but that's very different to complete ...

draetti
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Behind all involuntary replications are Ascension Experiences.

THE INVOLUNTARY REPLICATION DESTRUCTIVE PHENOMENA

The basic destructive problem that lies inherent in an
involuntary replication is that it creates, unknowingly to you, a
telepathic projector of negative images that compulsively attract
unknown and hidden others who have similar or identical negative
images. These similar or identical negative images then compulsively
and obsessively fuse together with your negative images and create
massive negative agreements that become physical universe realities.

The destructive activity of an involuntary replication is a
guarantee of failure, poverty, and unhappiness.

Elimination of involuntary replications is a guarantee of
success, prosperity, and happiness.

Alan C Walter

I was wondering Rog, if after experiencing an AE, if the involuntary repl is unknowing and hidden then how is that handled?

I understand you run the celebration of wins, but how does that prevent the negative side from the higher state you now have moved up into from coming in to mess you up? Seems you would have to just keep on moving up and up, AE after AE until you reached godhood to keep ahead of the new case that would keep coming in on you.

Which R/D is it that is used to handle involuntary replications?

Alan also talks (elsewhere) about role education as being needed after an AE, what does that entail?

I'm looking to rehab my L11 AE, but there was no role change that I am aware of. Or is this a delayed thing that comes some time after the blowout session?

Thanks
 

RogerB

Crusader
I was wondering Rog, if after experiencing an AE, if the involuntary repl is unknowing and hidden then how is that handled?

That's a good and sensible question:yes:

The answer is, funnily enough, the same as in finding any other area or subject of case that is "unknown" to the client . . . you ask for it. Case by definition is "unknown and out of control spiritual Life-Force." That is, to put it another way, it's automatic stuff running on an unknowing basis. When a person has had an apparent (and it is apparent, not actual) loss of gains as happens in the ascension crash and burn, the person knows and feels that something has moved in on them.

The first thing the person needs to know is that there is the subject of the "involuntary replication." That's part of the role education.

How you handle the thing of the involuntary replication is too long and complex an answer with too many variables to write up here.


I understand you run the celebration of wins, but how does that prevent the negative side from the higher state you now have moved up into from coming in to mess you up? Seems you would have to just keep on moving up and up, AE after AE until you reached godhood to keep ahead of the new case that would keep coming in on you.

You run the Celebration of Wins on the win and when the win occurs . . . when you have it, not later. That is you do it to prevent the shit from moving in to occlude the win and regained abilities and powers. The R/D addresses your use of the recovered powers to remove that which can restim to cause any crash when trying to use the recovered power or ability. That cleans up your cause side of the game.

It also addresses any unpleasant sensation or pleasant sensations and/or moods associated with the recovered state of Being, powers/abilities to clean up other areas of case that could restim to cause a crash. That cleans up your experience side of the game.

Then you find another area of case or subject to handle. This leads to the next big win-ascension.

Which R/D is it that is used to handle involuntary replications?

Alan also talks (elsewhere) about role education as being needed after an AE, what does that entail?

The Involuntary Replications Handling.

There is a course called: The Optimum Ascension Being Course . . . it hats the guy up on the whole subject. It hats you up on the subject of ascensions and being ascended. This from/as the PC side of the show. Training as a processor to handle all this is another whole parade.

I'm looking to rehab my L11 AE, but there was no role change that I am aware of. Or is this a delayed thing that comes some time after the blowout session?

Thanks

The standard $cn "rehab" tech totally misses what has to be handled.

As to not being aware of a "role change" . . . is likely because nobody introduced you to the idea that any ascension you have puts you in a new condition with new powers and abilities that you then have to properly manage and be responsible for :biggrin: and that it can put you into a new level of game to play. All these things need to be articulated and knowing responsibility implemented on them.

Knowing all this and getting hatted on the fact that it is a subject to know is the role education Alan speaks of. And this, the omitted tech of role education for those who experience ascensions, is perhaps the greatest goof in $cn.

It is a why folks who had gains later felt they lost them or didn't actually get them.

Rog
 
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That's a good and sensible question:yes:

The answer is, funnily enough, the same as in finding any other area or subject of case that is "unknown" to the client . . . you ask for it. Case by definition is "unknown and out of control spiritual Life-Force." That is, to put it another way, it's automatic stuff running on an unknowing basis. When a person has had an apparent (and it is apparent, not actual) loss of gains as happens in the ascension crash and burn, the person knows and feels that something has moved in on them.

The first thing the person needs to know is that there is the subject of the "involuntary replication." That's part of the role education.

Rog

This indicates as something truthful to me. I'd like to clarify what I believe are some protocols necessary for an effective modern spiritual therapy.

A great advantage of neo-cybernetic therapies is the knowing, in theory at least, that insights have to be processed autonomously and without invalidation and/or diagnostic translations. This is light years ahead of most other contemporary therapies and also the future of education.

-Sensitivity to the life-cycle phase the individual is in. There will be powerful motives that are not universal that are present in a given person due to the social and life-cycle role they are in. A therapy is facilitating a life-cylcle transition and of itself not really capable of doing anything - hence a very humble approach on part of practitioners is requisite in a sense.

-Understanding etymology and the root meanings of words and symbols and their historical development. I think a lot of problems are due to miseducation - and simply need to be addressed as educational problems - this should naturally lead to spiritual literacy for many people.

-The therpuetic model should not foreshadow past life-karma handling - a therapeutic model must not itself open the gate to past imaginings because of failing to handle the presenting problems and situations of today in today.

-The respect for the personality of the subject. I think Jung's typology system or the yin/yang theory of personality are very important indicators of different typologies of personality and hence different arcs of therpuetic development.

I have been studying Maslow, Kelly and Personality Type - and think that they have some very valuable methods to help changing our therapuetic modalities so that they can help people where they are at - and not demand the role imbalances of the knower-expert vs amateur/victim dynamics that too often lead therapies into dependent or putting-in-the-fix type of relationships, which are ultimately exploitative imo.

I would like to be able to work on studying/receiving help that can do this along these lines. I do beleive if an idea has therapuetic validity - there are different contexts in which it can be applied successfully. Id like to collaborate with folks who want an ethical way to help each other develop customized for each person involved - not necessarily tape out the road out for all mankind.

RogB are those issues I mentioned addressed in your advancing methods? If so I would like to study them further as many of your spiritual dynamics indicate for me as being truthful and hence useful to any sound approach to personal development.
 

RogerB

Crusader
This indicates as something truthful to me. I'd like to clarify what I believe are some protocols necessary for an effective modern spiritual therapy.

A great advantage of neo-cybernetic therapies is the knowing, in theory at least, that insights have to be processed autonomously and without invalidation and/or diagnostic translations. This is light years ahead of most other contemporary therapies and also the future of education.

-Sensitivity to the life-cycle phase the individual is in. There will be powerful motives that are not universal that are present in a given person due to the social and life-cycle role they are in. A therapy is facilitating a life-cylcle transition and of itself not really capable of doing anything - hence a very humble approach on part of practitioners is requisite in a sense.

-Understanding etymology and the root meanings of words and symbols and their historical development. I think a lot of problems are due to miseducation - and simply need to be addressed as educational problems - this should naturally lead to spiritual literacy for many people.

-The therpuetic model should not foreshadow past life-karma handling - a therapeutic model must not itself open the gate to past imaginings because of failing to handle the presenting problems and situations of today in today.

-The respect for the personality of the subject. I think Jung's typology system or the yin/yang theory of personality are very important indicators of different typologies of personality and hence different arcs of therpuetic development.

I have been studying Maslow, Kelly and Personality Type - and think that they have some very valuable methods to help changing our therapuetic modalities so that they can help people where they are at - and not demand the role imbalances of the knower-expert vs amateur/victim dynamics that too often lead therapies into dependent or putting-in-the-fix type of relationships, which are ultimately exploitative imo.

I would like to be able to work on studying/receiving help that can do this along these lines. I do beleive if an idea has therapuetic validity - there are different contexts in which it can be applied successfully. Id like to collaborate with folks who want an ethical way to help each other develop customized for each person involved - not necessarily tape out the road out for all mankind.

RogB are those issues I mentioned addressed in your advancing methods? If so I would like to study them further as many of your spiritual dynamics indicate for me as being truthful and hence useful to any sound approach to personal development.

Well Heche,

I'm in accord with what I'm getting from the above, as much as I can get as you have expressed it all in rather different terms than I might have :p

I note you posted only 20 time in nearly 4 years :biggrin: looks like you are being very selective :thumbsup:

As to your question: "are those issues I mentioned addressed in your advancing methods?" The answer is that the practice of this tech either works in accord and facilitates what you posit or it directly applies some of the principles.

The fact of life is, and many here will attest, I am not into grabbing people and putting them into session and having them dependent on any guru-ness. I provide the material for them to solo apply it under their own steam. And the first point you make is a very important one. To engage in "diagnostic translation" of what is perceived is to put a label and/or additive in on top of the thing and only screws up the area.

And our tech is very anti-cookie-cutter . . . each individual progresses as he/she progresses.

The accent is on addressing your powers and abilities, restoring them to being under your full knowing control and empowering them. The tech is oriented to helping you attain your spiritual wants. It is not geared to finding what's "wrong" with you based on some sort of arbitrary criteria of what is supposed to be "right" or the "norm."

I will post something I wrote to a private list recently that might give some insights on this.

Heche, PM me with you direct email so I can relay more and full info and materials.

Here is a link to a guy of whom I have the utmost respect whose writing, materials and practice I think you will really be in accord with.
http://workabletechnology.com/

Rog
 
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RogerB

Crusader
The basis of case and the route out.

(Originally posted elsewhere December 28, 2012)

This is the first of what will be a number of quick write-ups on the subject of “case” and the making our way on the route out.

These will be pithy statements. I don’t have the time to do huge explanations, nor the time to regurgitate and make available all the tapes or written materials produced by Alan and/or the tech items developed by me with him.

I expect you guys are bright enough to get the points that will be conveyed by my reducing what is presented to the essence of the issues involved.

The first thing to say on this subject is that, the basis of our case is a positive: not a negative.

Let me repeat that. The basis of our case is A POSITIVE not a NEGATIVE.

That is the first simple thing to point out. There are nuances such as that quite a lot of the case that is to be handled is mutual, but that is a mere little complication to the basic truth that all the upsets, charge, force and mass; wrong answer solutions, etc., that is the case we wrestle with as humans is all based on a POSITIVE.

The game we got ourselves into, long, long ago was begun positively with a want. (You and I and we all wanted something that was high-toned and positive)

For various reasons I’ll explain in later posts the game scenario declined and we ended up with upsets and solved the upsets with wrong answers. These altered and got heaped on the positive which positive became thereby occluded.

The negative upset and charged, by-passed charge scenario we now suffer is simply empowered by our effort to continue to solve the chain stemming from the old early upset POSITIVE. That is, the upset and negatives on the case are empowered because we have attention . . . our spiritual Life-Force . . . directed on them; and this enlivens them.

Thus the current scenario is that the positives that are truly us and our game are masked and buried under the later developed charge, force, mass and accumulated upsets.

Auditing is used to knowingly revivify and then dismantle the charge, force, mass, upsets and wrong answers.

But the BIG error in the techs used to date has been the failure to address and restore the prior positives. Tech has mainly focused on getting rid of negatives: not restoring the prior wanted positives.

I give you this as a basic datum you can align much else to.

Roger
 
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Gadfly

Crusader
The basis of case and the route out.

(Originally posted elsewhere December 28, 2013)

Roger

You posted this already - in the future?

Damn, you must be doing well with those OT abilities!!!!! :biggrin:

True and total cause over space and TIME. :coolwink:
 
Procedures Galore

.
Procedures Galore

Dear reader,

Roger made the following entry on another thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?27983-The-Pilot-Excerpts-from-his-Writings . As the thread is concerned with the Pilot's work, and what I wanted to say about what Roger says in the following is much broader, I have moved it to here.

The whole thread starts with some thing by the Pilot at: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...xcerpts-from-his-Writings&p=809145#post809145 which has the title The Book Self Clearing - Why OT Drills Early in it.

Roger's contribution is as follows (from http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...xcerpts-from-his-Writings&p=809500#post809500 )

Thanks for these two posts: #220 and #221, Ant.

Much could be commented on therein.

The first thing, and perhaps the most important thing that struck me in reading them was the mention of the C/S 53 and the whole screwed up think behind “high TA” and such. This coupled with the Pilots correct observation that folks too often ran into strife as they paddle across the standard grades chart.

Interestingly enough, the C/S 53 misses the real why/what behind high TA.

Example: over-running a process doesn’t necessarily cause high TA any more than cleaning a clean does . . . but over-running a process INTO some other area of case does, and particularly so if the process won’t handle what gets restimed. Similarly, a PC can have a big win and the big win ascends the person UP into a new area of case that then moves in: this will put the TA up.

Thus, the thing I’m pointing out is that it’s not the O/R or the going past an EP that sends the TA up . . . it’s the running on into something else that does not get handled!

I’ve run into a phenomenon recently that has exemplified this. Routinely I am having big session wins with my daily solo sessions . . . all is sweet and dandy at end of session with a correct EP, big win and often even ending session on a “detached state” where all case has moved off of me. BUT, next morning at start of session the TA is high and begins soaring the moment I begin to look to my case in the terms that I last dealt with it! What I’ve had to recognize is that a new area of case or subject has moved in or been accessed; and this usually due to my ascended, higher awareness. And it is this that has sent the TA up and it is this that has to be handled: not some other cookie-cutter line-up of what is “supposed to be.”

And tragically, this newly accessed and revivified case, not being on the “standard grade chart” or sequence of handling and nor on the C/S53, continued to get bypassed by the standard KSW handlings.

In actuality, the great catastrophe of the KSW line-up is that it continuously bypasses the PC’s and client’s own case that is there ready to run but runs some other KSW determined thing.

As Alan Walter so rightly said: client’s cases open up the way they open up, and that ain’t in accord with the cookie-cutter KSW line-up.

Pilot’s idea that we can/should move straight in to addressing and empowering our native abilities and powers is a good one. What is missing in his line-up is an articulation of how to handle what becomes available when the PC/client ascends up into higher levels of awareness and power.

The Ruds and Grade Chart stuff or the KSW correction list items are not likely where it’s going to be at. It will be something else that the PC needs handled.

Rog

My viewpoint (given more fully, with LRH extract is at http://www.antology.info/articledetails.php?id_art=22 ) is that since I came into Scientology in 1954 I have seen it becoming more and more complicated, with more and more levels, more and more things one must watch out for, and more and more remedies to things. More and more procedures. The question of high tone arm is just one thing. The meter I have from about 1952 does not have anything that I recognise as a TA. Meters were not used for a while after that, and the first meters using transistors (their not having been invented might have been a reason for dropping e meters), were not (so far as I can remember) calibrated with 2 and 3 a definite number of ohms.

And Scientology survived, and produced results.

And results were produced in the very early days – not by every one, but by some. And Ron , as far as I can see wanted every one to be able to audit, and he seems to have been forced to achieve that goal by introducing more and more procedures, rather than making people more able to produce the results the few made in the early days.

And what about the e-meter? It seems to have become a stable datum of all Scientologists. I have dropped using it, though when I get audited, I submit to my auditor using one, and we have come to an agreement that he does not evaluate by calling floating needles.

I had an unpleasant experience in 2009. I was asked (by the person's mother) to help someone who had been badly misaudited. The auditor had convinced the person that what he was doing was standard tech, and although the person was very uncomfortable, continued getting the auditing (in fact he developed the goal to get auditor training to find out why the auditor did such unpleasant things).

I was in a position where anything resembling (the other auditor's) "standard tech" would key the pc in. Fortunately I was used to auditing without an e meter, and the pc had a knowledge of repeater technique and was willing use it. I pulled the person (over a year) out of the worst of the unhappiness he was in (I believe he has a way to go yet), and was told by another well trained auditor who came on the scene later that my auditing was just as out tech as the other auditor's; clearly results were unimportant.

Guess I still have bypassed charge on that!.

So back to my point, which is that unfortunately the emphasis has been on a mass of procedures, rather than the ability to be really with the pc, know the basics of life, ARC, service facsimile, etc. etc. and have the gumption to audit off the cuff the case in front of you (not the one a c/s saw described through the eyes of an examiner or D of P 24 hours earlier).

I was very pleased with what Roger wrote – I had not thought of that. But afterwards I thought more on the lines of why on earth are auditors looking at e meters and tone arms instead of auditing, with a deep knowledge of the basics of life, the person in front of them.

That is not what is on the home page reference I gave you above of mine. I got carried away. (You see I am rather a frail character, tending to get blown around by what ever gust of wind comes, and with no understanding of my own importance in this world.)

Hope you get over this and have a good day (every worker in shops and supermarkets orders you to "good day" here in Denmark).

All the best,

Ant
 
Re: Procedures Galore

Procedures Galore


Mother's bringing you up by the book.

In the subject I have just mentioned – Procedures galore – I have just remembered two preclears I had where I spent hours running out many ARC breaks with the pc's mother. In both cases the mother had good intentions, but seemed totally incapable of even thinking of consulting the child’s reality. Both cases happened some years ago. I think in both cases the mother was dead when I audited the pcs, but the pc had not really forgiven her.

My cognition, not the pcs, I did not discuss it with them, was that the mother was bringing the child up according to some current authority in bringing up children, and seemed rather proud of herself. In one case the mother put the preclear and his younger brother in a home for four weeks giving them little notice and without an R factor at all. No explanation of why or how long they would be there. She took them out after four weeks (she had been away on a holiday I think) and thought it rather funny that the younger child did not recognise her when she collected the pair, and explained (in the presence of my preclear) how funny it was that the boy did not recognise her. My preclear was there at the time and noticed that the three or four woman friends who heard this, were far from amused - but the mother appeared not aware of their reaction.

My guess is that both these mothers were doing procedures "by the book" = standard upbringing of the time.

Does that describe some Scientology (in and out of the church) today?

All best wishes,

Ant

PS. A name or half remember being talked of was Dr. Spock, with regard to bring up children.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Procedures Galore

.
Procedures Galore

Dear reader,

Roger made the following entry on another thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?27983-The-Pilot-Excerpts-from-his-Writings . As the thread is concerned with the Pilot's work, and what I wanted to say about what Roger says in the following is much broader, I have moved it to here.

The whole thread starts with some thing by the Pilot at: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...xcerpts-from-his-Writings&p=809145#post809145 which has the title The Book Self Clearing - Why OT Drills Early in it.

Roger's contribution is as follows (from http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...xcerpts-from-his-Writings&p=809500#post809500 )



My viewpoint (given more fully, with LRH extract is at http://www.antology.info/articledetails.php?id_art=22 ) is that since I came into Scientology in 1954 I have seen it becoming more and more complicated, with more and more levels, more and more things one must watch out for, and more and more remedies to things. More and more procedures. The question of high tone arm is just one thing. The meter I have from about 1952 does not have anything that I recognise as a TA. Meters were not used for a while after that, and the first meters using transistors (their not having been invented might have been a reason for dropping e meters), were not (so far as I can remember) calibrated with 2 and 3 a definite number of ohms.

And Scientology survived, and produced results.

And results were produced in the very early days – not by every one, but by some. And Ron , as far as I can see wanted every one to be able to audit, and he seems to have been forced to achieve that goal by introducing more and more procedures, rather than making people more able to produce the results the few made in the early days.

And what about the e-meter? It seems to have become a stable datum of all Scientologists. I have dropped using it, though when I get audited, I submit to my auditor using one, and we have come to an agreement that he does not evaluate by calling floating needles.

I had an unpleasant experience in 2009. I was asked (by the person's mother) to help someone who had been badly misaudited. The auditor had convinced the person that what he was doing was standard tech, and although the person was very uncomfortable, continued getting the auditing (in fact he developed the goal to get auditor training to find out why the auditor did such unpleasant things).

I was in a position where anything resembling (the other auditor's) "standard tech" would key the pc in. Fortunately I was used to auditing without an e meter, and the pc had a knowledge of repeater technique and was willing use it. I pulled the person (over a year) out of the worst of the unhappiness he was in (I believe he has a way to go yet), and was told by another well trained auditor who came on the scene later that my auditing was just as out tech as the other auditor's; clearly results were unimportant.

Guess I still have bypassed charge on that!.

So back to my point, which is that unfortunately the emphasis has been on a mass of procedures, rather than the ability to be really with the pc, know the basics of life, ARC, service facsimile, etc. etc. and have the gumption to audit off the cuff the case in front of you (not the one a c/s saw described through the eyes of an examiner or D of P 24 hours earlier).

I was very pleased with what Roger wrote – I had not thought of that. But afterwards I thought more on the lines of why on earth are auditors looking at e meters and tone arms instead of auditing, with a deep knowledge of the basics of life, the person in front of them.

That is not what is on the home page reference I gave you above of mine. I got carried away. (You see I am rather a frail character, tending to get blown around by what ever gust of wind comes, and with no understanding of my own importance in this world.)

Hope you get over this and have a good day (every worker in shops and supermarkets orders you to "good day" here in Denmark).

All the best,

Ant



There we have it. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Way to go Ant !
 

RogerB

Crusader
Well Ant, your two posts above are spot on. Particularly your post you linked to on your own site relating the conversation with one of my other favorite people, Hank Levin, on the issue of what makes a good auditor.

Funny thing about looking at the history of $cn and the development of the tech, is this.

There are two things that are basically wrong with the in-session auditing tech set up as taught in $cn. :omg:

  1. The whole parade of the auditor training is based on and intended to instill in the auditor the “ability” and “power” of cause and control in session . . . this particularly became an issue of focus in around ’57-’59 with the advent of the objective processes and upper indoc TRs. But it also exists in the indoctrination imparted in the basic TRs 0-4. It’s all geared to being in control of and at cause over the PC. (This of course morphed into org management domination and control of staff and public.)
  2. The basic required element of the “auditing comm.-cycle” that makes it work it not taught or drilled in auditor training. And what is that vital and basic element? It is the ability to receive the emanations of the PC. Hanks remark that he is “curious” in session is a practice of this . . . he has the wonderful ability to ask a question and then switch to inflowing the answer from the PC! To be noted is the fact that it is the “itsa-ing” off of the answer by the PC that makes a session work.

In my presentation at the 2009 FZ Conference I related these facts and that I created for Alan Walter a drill that is now part of his “Basic Powerhouse Training Drills” (a vastly improved address to the Training Routines (TRs). The drill I created is #3:

KNOWINGLY RECEIVING & DUPLICATING ANOTHER’S EMANATION

Purpose: To enable the Student to knowingly and with ease receive and duplicate the emanations of another while maintaining their presence and span from their Receiving Position to their At Point. (There is a diagram that defines/shows the “At Point” as being the point/position At which the student has delivered his question/command to the coach and from which he then receives the answer.)​

To be noted is the fact that this skill and practice of receiving from a PC in session is not part of $cn auditor training! What the auditor is only trained on is the creating of an effect on the PC and the maintaining of control of the PC. Yet the vital reciprocal of asking a question is being able to receive the answer!

It has often been mentioned here on ESMB how therapeutic an action it is for a person to be listened to! Had this understanding been fully grasped in $cn it is unlikely the “Procedures Galore” syndrome you rightly speak of would have occurred.

You are perfectly correct when you refer to the days when we audited without a meter . . . we had attention on our PCs! (Novel idea!) Not on the meter! And we received and understood their answers and understood their condition . . . and we addressed their PT condition and upgraded it: not some mythical list of supposed-to-be’s as dictated “by the book.”

Rog
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Of course there's no need for a 'meter' and there's no need for lists, jargon and the technical training of faux therapists in pretending to care either (auditors) ... most people have friends and family and those that don't would almost certainly do better if gently encouraged to go out and find people that they feel comfortable with and talk to them now and then about the normal issues that we all have, theres no need and it's potentially harmful to create false issues with 'engram hunting' and other hubbard force fed nonsense to fill in time and make the 'auditor' feel validated and worthwhile (and that is all it does).

Normal relationships include people 'chatting' back and forth, listening and being listened to (neither pretending to be a therapist, lecturer or philosopher) and things gradually fall into place this way, its called life and it's a healthy way to resolve things as they come up without turning people into dependent, needy 'preclears' ... the absolute last person I would want near my loved ones if they were in need of support, empathy or genuine caring would be a scientologist (or one of the many versions of one) with or without an 'e-meter' because I know how they really think and its usually cold and uncaring but 'technically' dressed up with some phony warmth (called ARC) and a truck load of hubbard insanity.

Seriously, you 'auditors' ... it's time to get over yourselves and leave people to sort themselves out or better still, be a good friend to them if you genuinely care ... you are creating issues where often there are none and that is a disgrace.

:yes:
 

RogerB

Crusader
An Analysis of a Screwy Tech!

I was wrestling with whether I should put this post in another thread under the title of "Screwy, Destructive 'Tech'" . . . but this old thread is live, so here we go!
______________________________

Ethics Conditions

For those who were not in $cn prior to the release of the “Operating Conditions” and their Formulas in the mid-1960’s, what I am about to write might come as either a bit of a shock, a funny, an Aha! moment or even be offensive . . . :omg:

Hubbard said some interesting things over the years: some of it accurate. Here’s one: “You know them by their product.” That is, you can observe the worth of any action, datum or person by observing what they produce.

A major change for the worse occurred in $cn at the time of two things:
1) the creation of the SO and the giving it “ethics power” over and control of the orgs and,
2) the introduction of the “Ethics Conditions.” I cite the “Ethics” Conditions and hold them as distinct form the “Operating Conditions”.

In the early days up till the latter part of 1967 Orgs were happy places to be. Folks pretty much honored each other and helped each other get the “show on the road.” It was a very fun and productive scene!

While we had a tape on the “conditions” circa ’65-’66 and an HCOPL listing the operating conditions non-existence to power, the formulas only addressed these “operating conditions” — not any conditions below non-existence which were not released until late 1967.

In October ‘67 Hubbard put out the first version of what would be later referred to as the “Ethics Conditions” below non-existence with their formulas. HCOPL dated 6 October 1967 titled “Condition of Liability” listed them as Liability, Treason, Doubt, Enemy in that order. (These were later re-ordered)

Interestingly enough, concurrent with this Hubbard fired off his first SO Mission into St. Hill and the GO with total Ethics Powers.

And here with these two events began the INTERNAL destruction of the Scientology enterprise. The orgs went into self-destruct mode along with the cutting-itself-off-from-society mode, which is also a method of self destruct. (If you don’t believe me on that one, ask what happened to the now non-existent “Shakers.”)

And this self destruct by the orgs themselves is a direct result of the application of this screwy, very screwy tech of assigning enemy conditions willy-nilly to people and “things.” To be noted is the fact that Hubbard states a person in “the Condition of Liability” has taken on “the color of the Enemy” . . . and indeed is treated as though an enemy! Indeed anyone assigned in any of the conditions below non-existence is treated as an enemy in $cn!

And look at the attitude of the “innies” in the orgs towards those outside who either disagree or do not accept $cn — they are treated as the enemy! And the response? Of course the orgs and their “innies” are regarded as a bunch of cultist idiots and enemies of good societal order and treated as such!

Of course, some, who are into domination and the putting of others down or otherwise are into intellectualizing the wonders of the good of such screwy things without actually looking at what’s involved and the actual outcomes, think this assigning conditions of enemy all about is such clever stuff! But then, they too often live in cocoons, often in self created delusion, and are oblivious to true and actual outcomes. (And can’t figure why they have less than optimum lives or accomplishments, including poor health.)

And so it was with the advent of this “tech” that the orgs embarked on the madness of the dedicated finding, creating and destroying of enemies both within and without :duh:

Let’s look at what’s involved and what actually happens as the outcome when this screwy tech is applied.

Here are some comments by the person who led the first SO mission fired into action by Hubbard revealing some of the stupid tragedy of it all. Though he is in actuality trying to relay a history of the period and the fun that was had by all, he also (possibly unwittingly) reveals how utterly insane the scene and Hubbard was.

The full write-up by Joe van Staden is here on ESMB:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?16669-Birth-of-the-Sea-Org

My reply to Joe which paints a very different picture to his jolly report, is here:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?16669-Birth-of-the-Sea-Org&p=385164&viewfull=1#post385164

These are some of Joe’s comments made as he paddled along. They pertain to the 1967 period when the Ethics Conditions were introduced, and their subsequent outcome.

“Where the bond between people is the telling factor the top brass is inclined to see total commitment to The Cause as being undermined by too close a connection between friends and family. Hence, throughout history instilling fear of those in command has been adopted more often than not. And as is clear to ex SO members, the latter is SOP in the SO.”

(And here we see a why of the brutality towards staff and public along with the dictates of disconnections.)

“A clue as to the direction the Sea Org was heading was provided one evening during a visit by LRH to the ship. He announced that it was time the Sea Org came out of non-existence – it was time to make an impact on the orgs out there beginning with St Hill. It was mission time. The mission’s purpose was mainly to assert and affirm SO authority and presence. As it turned out the three members of this first SO mission was my wife Jill, Fred Payer and me.”

Here is the beginnings of the destructive control that was then practiced and leveled at orgs and throughout $cn. This is the infamous mission where a dagger was flung into the roof of the Monkey Room at St. Hill Manor as a means of demonstrating “SO dominance” of those present. This is the event in which occurred the wasting and loss of one of LRH’s closest confidants and supporters, Reg Sharpe (he loaned Hubbard the money to buy the manor!).

“What a waste!

“I have gone down the list of declared SP’s, the vast majority of whom I don’t know. But of the names I do recognize most of them were at one stage dedicated, experienced, well trained Scientologists. They all added value to the organization and most of them would probably still have been active had it not been for the seriously flawed benchmarks (policy) in accordance with which the value of a staff member is measured.

“In simple terms, these people were measured not by what they gave to the organization but by the extent of their submission to “source”. The individual contribution by many was considerable; in some cases vital to the survival of the organization. Some such stories have been told but many more remain unacknowledged.


“In the final analysis, what I am trying to say is that the organizational mindset of Scientology is inclined to waste its most valuable resource; highly trained, experienced and creative people. Looking at most of the people I know on the list of Scientology enemies I see “what could have been” had different benchmarks been used to measure the value of people.”

And that, of course, is the product and outcome of screwy, very screwy tech — waste of goodness and of good people!

“By this time most ethics conditions had been formulated and were being implemented. But, it would be awhile yet before the mindless application of these conditions would become a dominant characteristic of many SO members. Consolidation at its worst.”

In the context of the above and of what this “mindless application” of screwy tech has produced since it was introduced, that is a very telling comment by one of the first to actually apply that shit to orgs!

Here, below, is a note by Joe that speaks to Hubbard’s deviousness and machinations resorted to to get his way. Joe makes this comment following recounting some particular events which he recognizes might appear to be a little unbelievable to folks . . .

Now I won’t blame any ex SO members or those still in, to question or simply dismiss the validity of this story. Imagine LRH casually admitting to what amounts to the manipulation of ethics policy to get his way and what’s more, admitting to having failed at it.”

So, what’s with this assigning others/things/groups “low conditions”? What does it actually do to the person or group doing the assigning — this apart from what it does or attempts to do to the person/groups being assigned the condition. How come it has set in motion the shrinking and destruction of the $cn enterprise from within?

Well, let’s look at how folks who do the assigning treat those who have been assigned in lower Conditions than non-existence. They behave as an enemy to the person who has been assigned the low condition! They go into the mindset that the person assigned into the lower condition is no better than shit! Go into any org and see it going on! Even those who did not actually deliver the assignment on the victim, but who accept it as valid, treat the victim as shit. Their behavior is that of an enemy to the person assigned in the lower condition! They go into being an enemy to the victim!

In other words, this screwy tech is creating everyone in the group who practices it as an enemy to everyone else in the group each time the tech is implemented. This screwy tech is and has set up the existence of constant enmity within the $cn enterprise. They are at war internally as though all, even if only gradiently, are enemies or potential enemies.

And what’s the greatest fear dramatized by $cn? Fear of those they think are or might be enemies to $cn!

And certainly there is the constant fear of “being declared in or assigned one the lower conditions of enmity to the group — and that is not conducive to a happy life-style. :no: :no:

And so, the simple message here is that those who run about assigning others or things a condition of “enemy” are actually being destructive to and damaging themselves. At a minimum because they are putting themselves in a low condition towards that which they are putting down. But in actuality they are severing the harmonious relationship that ought be there and practicing a form of undeclared disconnection. And they make themselves smaller by their shattering of connection and their misalignment of relationship.

I have often written that $cn and the orgs create their own enemies! They make enemies. The above is how it’s done: they “assign” the condition to another or others. Internally it destroys the cohesion and operating power of the group itself, but externally the result of assigning enemy to those who disagree or do not accept the org’s dictates is that they MAKE that person or group an enemy to it by creating alienation.

You see, the trap is that when you project onto another that they are an enemy, you are putting yourself in the position of and as being as enemy to them.

And the “innies” wonder why we “ex-ies” and “not-ever-been-in” types are pissed at them and are acting as enemies to them!

In short, the “Ethics Conditions and assignments” are used as a destructive control and domination mechanism upon those who are stupid enough to go along with and accept that barbarity.

Later on I will likely do a write up on the relevance of the above to the failure of the “SP/PTS tech.” The actuality is that having to “disconnect” from another because they disagree with your beliefs or are “nasty to you” is such a glaring example of the failure of the auditing tech and what the tech of human development and betterment claims to be able to accomplish, it is astounding that the “innies” haven’t seen the stupidity of the situation.

Alan Walter once did a lecture (taped) titled: “No Enemies.” It’s a big concept. It’s based on the point that the tech exists that can undo all enmity. Of course $cn practices exactly the opposite! Alan created a series of processes known as the “Connection Series.” They restore harmonious alignment — now that is a correct “handling.” :yes:

RogerB
 

Gib

Crusader
Of course there's no need for a 'meter' and there's no need for lists, jargon and the technical training of faux therapists in pretending to care either (auditors) ... most people have friends and family and those that don't would almost certainly do better if gently encouraged to go out and find people that they feel comfortable with and talk to them now and then about the normal issues that we all have, theres no need and it's potentially harmful to create false issues with 'engram hunting' and other hubbard force fed nonsense to fill in time and make the 'auditor' feel validated and worthwhile (and that is all it does).

Normal relationships include people 'chatting' back and forth, listening and being listened to (neither pretending to be a therapist, lecturer or philosopher) and things gradually fall into place this way, its called life and it's a healthy way to resolve things as they come up
without turning people into dependent, needy 'preclears'
... the absolute last person I would want near my loved ones if they were in need of support, empathy or genuine caring would be a scientologist (or one of the many versions of one) with or without an 'e-meter' because I know how they really think and its usually cold and uncaring but 'technically' dressed up with some phony warmth (called ARC) and a truck load of hubbard insanity.

Seriously, you 'auditors' ... it's time to get over yourselves and leave people to sort themselves out or better still, be a good friend to them if you genuinely care ... you are creating issues where often there are none and that is a disgrace.

:yes:

There you go. :thumbsup:

Transference baby.

What would Ron do? :laugh:

Just do what Ron says to do. Try to figure that one out.
 
Well Ant, your two posts above are spot on. Particularly your post you linked to on your own site relating the conversation with one of my other favorite people, Hank Levin, on the issue of what makes a good auditor.
Snipped, and transferred to below
Rog

Thank you Roger. I have sort of assumed that the major purpose of Ex Scn. Message Board is (on all flows) to enhance quality of life, in the individual terms of reference of the individual. I consider RogerB's contribution above (An Analysis of a Screwy Tech! Ethics Conditions) a good contribution in this direction. I certainly got a touch of enlightenment out of it. Though I suppose at some point you "go release" and even risk an overrun in hearing more stories. For example of how an individual got treated in the "church" before being declared or how they got declared clear, and undeclared a few times.

In the direction of enhancing life, truth is quite an important factor, and in the comment RogerB made on my contribution, I find some ambiguity, or lack of clear definition of words, which I will take up here. Perhaps the major outpoint is generality. Any way I have commented below on what RogerB wrote.
I have marked quotes from Roger in blue

Funny thing about looking at the history of $cn and the development of the tech, is this.
There are two things that are basically wrong with the in-session auditing tech set up as taught in $cn. :omg:

"as taught in $cn" seems to me a generality (or missing time – I could ask "when?). I was trained on Scientology course in 1954/5, 1959, (both London Org) 1960 (SH East Grinstead) and 1981/2 (AOSH EUAf) I did not notice much of what Roger talks about below.

  1. The whole parade of the auditor training is based on and intended to instill in the auditor the “ability” and “power” of cause and control in session . . . this particularly became an issue of focus in around ’57-’59 with the advent of the objective processes and upper indoc TRs. But it also exists in the indoctrination imparted in the basic TRs 0-4. It’s all geared to being in control of and at cause over the PC. (This of course morphed into org management domination and control of staff and public.)



  1. "based on and intended to instill.." is not my reality.
    "’57-’59 with the advent of the objective processes"; what does Roger mean by objective processes? I think there is ambiguity there (which I have been guilty of – it takes one to catch one :) )
    The first professional auditing I received in 1954 included a lot of opening procedure by 8c, which is a much older process.
    "the indoctrination imparted in the basic TRs 0-4" For the record, there were no such thing as Trs in Scientology before 1957. In December1956 I was on a one week course on Dummy auditing drills, which were the "beta verson" of the Trs, which came out shortly afterward. Rosina Mann was instructor, and Mary Sue Hubbard and Peggy Conway were on the course. I did not see much indoctrination. But when you are dealing with a coach and a student, neither of whom could communicate, you have a tough journey. I remember on that Dummy auditing course, the instructor, Rosina Man, stopping the session where I was student, saying to me "put more life into it", and I being totally incapable of understanding how you put life into spoken words.
    "It’s all geared to being in control of and at cause over the PC" I do not see that. Of course any professional would have some control over his client, to the degree necessary to get the job done.
    "all geared" seems to be another generality (I wondered why I was niggled by Roger's piece – I think there is data about generalising and ARC breaks)

    [*]The basic required element of the “auditing comm.-cycle” that makes it work it [?was] not taught or drilled in auditor training. And what is that vital and basic element? It is the ability to receive the emanations of the PC. Hanks remark that he is “curious” in session is a practice of this . . . he has the wonderful ability to ask a question and then switch to inflowing the answer from the PC! To be noted is the fact that it is the “itsa-ing” off of the answer by the PC that makes a session work.


Well, is that a generality? There was a change in the late 50's. From 1958 until 1959 I was an HPA instructor. The word Instructor was (later) changed to Supervisor and the student did not necessarily need to know the subject the student was studying. He (she) was supposed to know study tech. Robots making robots was an easy situation to sink into. In fact Robots programmed to achieve a statistic which did not relate to any valuable final product (it is all a big joke, really, so why not enjoy it? Life is a game :) .

In my presentation at the 2009 FZ Conference I related these facts and that I created for Alan Walter a drill that is now part of his “Basic Powerhouse Training Drills” (a vastly improved address to the Training Routines (TRs). The drill I created is #3:

KNOWINGLY RECEIVING & DUPLICATING ANOTHER’S EMANATION


Purpose: To enable the Student to knowingly and with ease receive and duplicate the emanations of another while maintaining their presence and span from their Receiving Position to their At Point. (There is a diagram that defines/shows the “At Point” as being the point/position At which the student has delivered his question/command to the coach and from which he then receives the answer.)​

On the surface this is commendable. But one more drill? It seems a bit like a solution (broadly to the fact that not all people were "natural auditors". Something like the solution to a problem becoming a new problem.

To be noted is the fact that this skill and practice of receiving from a PC in session is not part of $cn auditor training! What the auditor is only trained on is the creating of an effect on the PC and the maintaining of control of the PC. Yet the vital reciprocal of asking a question is being able to receive the answer!

An ability natural to a person who has gone up the tone scale. RogerB is communicating here a real problem. A solution might be in the order of cutting back to basics, most of which are in early Scientology, for example much of the early auditors code.

It has often been mentioned here on ESMB how therapeutic an action it is for a person to be listened to! Had this understanding been fully grasped in $cn it is unlikely the “Procedures Galore” syndrome you rightly speak of would have occurred.

You are perfectly correct when you refer to the days when we audited without a meter . . . we had attention on our PCs! (Novel idea!) Not on the meter! And we received and understood their answers and understood their condition . . . and we addressed their PT condition and upgraded it: not some mythical list of supposed-to-be’s as dictated “by the book.”

As I just mentioned, I was niggled (old English for slightly ARC broken) by RogerB's post.

When he talks about "objectives" I suspect he is talking about CCH 1 to 4.I have quite a comment here. They were released (together with the Drill called Upper Indoc, which became labelled Tr 7 or Tr 9). I was in Dublin at the time (managing to stop a failing org from collapsing, failing to turn it round, and suffering rather from having to do an executive job I was totally incapable of). When I came back and got on staff in London there was quite a lot of confusion about the fact that they (or we discovered, the first two processes) were Tone 40. Tone 40? What was Tone 40? The top of the tone scale? Something we (or I for sure) had very little hope of achieving. There were clumsy attempts at being Tone 40 (one I remember was where an auditor thought he had to repeat the auditing command in exactly the same intonation, each time). However there was a certain amount of theory about why they worked, most of which made a lot of sense to me. Ignoring what the pc said did not make sense – it is not part of Antology.

Move the time track to about 1990. I have been kicked out of the church (by the back door). I had stablised a bit from the loss of stable terminals and had audited a bit (successfully). I had one pc who I had run dianetics on (three or four flow on a very rough Roman Arena incident, after struggling very hard he turned to me in surprise saying something like "You know, if I did not mock this up it would not be there"). This man came to me a little later with this story: He had been sleeping with his girl friend, when she woke up in the middle of the night in deep terror, and his head had turned into a wolf's head. He had then tried to run dianetics, without success, and would I take her on? I knew at once that this was a case where I would have difficulty controlling her thinkingness, and I should run CCH 1-4. Some trepidation on my part, but I took her on. It was difficult, made more so by the fact that she was very unstable and rang me up at various times, and he rang me up a number of times to insist that I ran engrams on her. On the first session CCH 1 ran OK ("Give me that hand"). On the second command cycle of CCH2, when she was half way across the room she collapsed suddenly on the sofa, in terror exclaiming "Oh My Good" (but in Danish). My head had turned into a wolves head. This sort of thing happened to her in daily life, so it was difficult for her to hold a job down (she also had spent half her school years in a psychiatirc area, which meant her schooling was not too hot). I got her to a state where I ran 7 hours of opening procedure by duplication without my head turning into a wolves head.

Scientology can work, but it is only a tool, and like any tool, it can be used for good or for bad.

And it is alright to point out (and perhaps blow some charge in some readers with a correct indication) errors in "Scientology" training.

But don't generalise or (and here I am threatening) I will ARC break again.

All best wishes,

Ant
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Though I suppose at some point you "go release" and even risk an overrun in hearing more stories.

Ant

This sort of thinking is the result of looking at everything from a Scientology framework.

A person in good shape could and would simply just be there and look, with no reaction, no effect of any sort, at "stories". They are just "stories". :duh:

How does a person go "release", other than in some vague metaphorical sense, from hearing "stories"? Applying this concept of "flattening the chain" to everything gets . . . old.

I am glad that I, for the most part, no longer view and experience the world through some convoluted framework of Scientology ideas.

I suppose that actually what happened is that I have "as-ised" the framework and I am "exterior" from it all (only kidding). :biggrin:
 

RogerB

Crusader
Thanks for the well thought out and courteous comment, Ant.

Sorry to have niggled you :nervous: and I hope all that good training and early Scn experience you had did not feel invalidated, Ant. (if that’s what my missive may have done) :ohmy:

What I wrote is simply my observation: it doesn’t have to be true or right for everyone.

The fact, however, is that the TR’s train a person to deliver an auditing command/question. They do not train the person to receive the answer or other emanations of the PC—this aspect of the auditing cycle is absent from the training. And so as to put some time on it for you and/or otherwise knock out any generality, that is the PT scene and it is the scene that has existed since the TRs were introduced, as you correctly say, in 1957. Prior to the introduction of the TRs the training line-up was different, and I am not commenting on that period or pre-1957 training techniques: I did cite the omission as part of the TRs . . . and please note my comments all actually spoke in the present tense using words “as taught” (not as has been or was taught) and “is.” (I have a typo where I have “it” instead of “is” in one paragraph.)

Of course, TR6 trains the auditor to be able to exercise “8C” (body control) of the PC (“moving another body than their own” is cited in the TR).

TRs are a good exercise. They drill specific abilities and in doing so actually also “run out” any inability or back-off in the area or subject being drilled. Drilling things/actions is a process that is used in many professions and areas of life: the military, police, airline pilots, the Coastguard, professional athletes. The biggest benefit of “drills” as a process is that they often introduce and put in place a needed ability or capacity that had been unknown or absent prior to doing the drill.

As to “the Objectives Processes” . . . well, I used the term in the context and with the meaning as defined in the Tech Dictionary (Page 274 in my edition). I won’t type up all the definitions (fingers too old for that) but will type up the reference #2 that began the whole subject of “Objective Processes/ing.”

This from HCOB 2 November, 1957RA: “ . . . look around or physical contact processes are “objective.” PCs who have been on drugs obviously have to be run on object not subjective processes. Anyone can be brought more into resent time with objective processes.” (The bold is as per the dictionary).

There is another, even better definition of it in the dictionary from the 30 September, 1971 HCOB. “Objective Processes deal with body motions and observing and touching objects in the auditing room.”

Thus, the “Objective Processes” are all those wonderful goodies we spent so many hours on :melodramatic: “book and bottle,” SCS (8C), CCHs, even clay table healing.

You’ll remember in ’58-’59 HPA’s (US HCA) had to go get re-trained on this stuff to have “Validated” added to their certs. Thus we became an HPA (Val) and new trainees who did a course that included these Objective Processes earned the freshly minted HPA (Val) cert.

Rog
 
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