CoS Does NOT follow its own Disconnection Policy!

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Could someone do horrible things all their lives, then just before they die, ask to be forgiven and have a clean slate? Every Christian I asked said yes, but that made no sense to me.


Yes! That is the fundamental of christians religions - to forgive and be forgiven
As soon as one express sincere regrets and ask (jesus or god) for forgiving - she\he is forgiven. Often the priest will pay attention to the person ability to self-forgive.

At the basic of catholic religion there is a concept of perfection that is:
God created his creatures perfectly imperfect and ''He'' pays a special attention to the one who suffers , who fail, and ask other fellow human beings to be kind and generous to anyone in need.

The thing to do for the priest is just to listen sincerely with intend to help people alleviate their mental\emotional suffering - to let go a load, and to make them leave with a heart at peace. When we realize the priest is not judging, then, we can move on without carrying shame and guiltyness anymore and know we are loved the imprefect way we are.

Not different than a psych therapy - but it takes few minutes for on going stuff.
I usually do it for easter and christmas. I like. One time I just said : I have a lot and feel overwhelmed and lost...The priest, I knew hime, said Okay girl, now stop to take all onto your shoulders ($cientology sequel - holding the whole world) and be kind to you now. It was what I needed.
5 minutes it took!

And I have no problem that people say or think it is retard, crazy, stupid, funny, or laugh..I can laugh about it...SOme part ot the christians religions are retard too , some had been harmfull in the past, they lack so much respect to gay people, and womend who are forbiden to be priest..retards...they thing they are an elite...but this is the Institution.

when we were small child it was mandatory to get confessed each sunday. What would confess a small 6 yo child ??? :confused2: OH father John - I stole a candy in my sister candy jar...Okay girl - here is the prayer you shall say :ohmy:

Then, later teenagers were expected to confess kisses, and ''body scanning & exploring'' ... I've never been ask for such confession! I guess catholics parents found it safer if the priest would give a check on our sexual behavior - but they rarely did (they would avoid problems by keeping away of that). Also priests and nuns were our teachers so they already knew a big part of our sins and could help to list it:biggrin:

The catholics have tons of jokes about priests and confession as well as Jesus and God..they laugh and joke about it! No one take offense in it though!
 
Last edited:

JustSheila

Crusader
Nobody videotaped our confessions, wrote them down or recorded them. It was private. And when it was done, well, it was erased. :thumbsup:

Even at 6, a kid can feel terribly guilty over lying to a parent. Having an outlet for that was pretty cool.

How hard it must have been for our teachers and nuns to treat us with the same objectivity and to erase it all in their minds, too. They deserve some credit. I like that the actual priests who heard the confessions rarely dealt with us personally.

With Scn, one is dogged, humiliated, chastised and blackmailed by those sec checks forever.
 
Nobody videotaped our confessions, wrote them down or recorded them. It was private. And when it was done, well, it was erased. :thumbsup:

Even at 6, a kid can feel terribly guilty over lying to a parent. Having an outlet for that was pretty cool.

How hard it must have been for our teachers and nuns to treat us with the same objectivity and to erase it all in their minds, too. They deserve some credit. I like that the actual priests who heard the confessions rarely dealt with us personally.

With Scn, one is dogged, humiliated, chastised and blackmailed by those sec checks forever.


well yeeaaah, but for many people I've spoken to, the massive negative the RC church has against it, is the crippling guilt it engineers in the psyche of it's victims. It is a relief to confess, the priest can be nice, the nuns can be nice, but it is a system where they lord it over people. Why should I feel relief confessing to a priest? Because they told me so. None of them came and knelt in front of me asking to get off their overts. They were the SO of RC. Although different from the SCi-cult SO.
 

Gib

Crusader
well yeeaaah, but for many people I've spoken to, the massive negative the RC church has against it, is the crippling guilt it engineers in the psyche of it's victims. It is a relief to confess, the priest can be nice, the nuns can be nice, but it is a system where they lord it over people. Why should I feel relief confessing to a priest? Because they told me so. None of them came and knelt in front of me asking to get off their overts. They were the SO of RC. Although different from the SCi-cult SO.

That's one of the things I realized. If I confess my sins to you, then you on a turnabout confess your sins to me, and then neither of us has info over either of us confessing. And thus one can't control each other. We could even video each other (for training purposes, or I'm not auditing you, LOL).

I once read on another blog totally unrelated to religion or scientology, the tag line of the poster was something like this IIRC,

Liar, liar pants are on fire, if it only came true, the world would be better.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
well yeeaaah, but for many people I've spoken to, the massive negative the RC church has against it, is the crippling guilt it engineers in the psyche of it's victims. It is a relief to confess, the priest can be nice, the nuns can be nice, but it is a system where they lord it over people. Why should I feel relief confessing to a priest? Because they told me so. None of them came and knelt in front of me asking to get off their overts. They were the SO of RC. Although different from the SCi-cult SO.

I see your point, but rightly or wrongly, parents have used guilt trips on kids for thousands of years, with or without religion. Some fictitious being always saw what you did when the parent did not, whether it was Santa Claus, Apollo, wood sprites or the bogey man. :confused2: It's hard on kids and it's not ideal, either. Kids certainly need boundaries, but burning in hell, threats of torture and loss of eternal life are way over the top harsh. I'd love to read some recent studies on kids raised without that - based on the terrifically good effects of positive reinforcement v the reactive and de-personalising effects of negative reinforcement, I would think that the entire idea of huge, overwhelming threats is bad for any living thing and kids raised without it would be much happier and balanced in life.

My point wasn't so much about the confession, though, as the concept of forgiving one's self and others and being able to let it all go - and believing it is perfectly okay to do so. Our ability to experience guilt is pretty hard-wired and even some of the more intelligent animal species exhibit it (i.e., chimps, dolphins, some parrots and even dogs). So IMHO, we as humankind may have quite a few generations to go to not react to the guilt trigger when it is imposed on us and it may be a very long time before people stop using it to control us. I don't believe for a moment that religion created that trigger, though.

It doesn't have to be a priest. It could be a friend or therapist, but my point is, it's not the telling that has such a great relief on the person so much as believing they can get on with their lives without being burdened by guilt any longer. Guilt can be so psychologically crippling, and often over the most innocuous things we may have never been able to control or prevent in the first place. The man who blames himself for not picking up his wife and she gets killed in a car accident. Think of the puppy who sulks and hides after chewing your shoes until you finally scold him - then he's visibly relieved because the scolding is over and he doesn't even think about it again.

Sure, we are taught what is right and wrong socially and to feel bad when we do wrong, but what we aren't taught is how to unburden ourselves and let go of the guilt. That's one thing Christianity offers that is way cool. That's all I'm saying here.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
That's one of the things I realized. If I confess my sins to you, then you on a turnabout confess your sins to me, and then neither of us has info over either of us confessing. And thus one can't control each other. We could even video each other (for training purposes, or I'm not auditing you, LOL).

I once read on another blog totally unrelated to religion or scientology, the tag line of the poster was something like this IIRC,

Liar, liar pants are on fire, if it only came true, the world would be better.

Confessions are ok if they float your boat, make you come, act as psychological masturbation, relief. But love doesn't demand them or need them. Love overrules all that judging stuff....
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am a Christian. Thessalonians is clear all laws are now overcome, done. Love is the new law and only law. There are no tasks, no levels, no sins to worry over. Just love each other.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
i agree with all of this.


I see your point, but rightly or wrongly, parents have used guilt trips on kids for thousands of years, with or without religion. Some fictitious being always saw what you did when the parent did not, whether it was Santa Claus, Apollo, wood sprites or the bogey man. :confused2: It's hard on kids and it's not ideal, either. Kids certainly need boundaries, but burning in hell, threats of torture and loss of eternal life are way over the top harsh. I'd love to read some recent studies on kids raised without that - based on the terrifically good effects of positive reinforcement v the reactive and de-personalising effects of negative reinforcement, I would think that the entire idea of huge, overwhelming threats is bad for any living thing and kids raised without it would be much happier and balanced in life.

My point wasn't so much about the confession, though, as the concept of forgiving one's self and others and being able to let it all go - and believing it is perfectly okay to do so. Our ability to experience guilt is pretty hard-wired and even some of the more intelligent animal species exhibit it (i.e., chimps, dolphins, some parrots and even dogs). So IMHO, we as humankind may have quite a few generations to go to not react to the guilt trigger when it is imposed on us and it may be a very long time before people stop using it to control us. I don't believe for a moment that religion created that trigger, though.

It doesn't have to be a priest. It could be a friend or therapist, but my point is, it's not the telling that has such a great relief on the person so much as believing they can get on with their lives without being burdened by guilt any longer. Guilt can be so psychologically crippling, and often over the most innocuous things we may have never been able to control or prevent in the first place. The man who blames himself for not picking up his wife and she gets killed in a car accident. Think of the puppy who sulks and hides after chewing your shoes until you finally scold him - then he's visibly relieved because the scolding is over and he doesn't even think about it again.

Sure, we are taught what is right and wrong socially and to feel bad when we do wrong, but what we aren't taught is how to unburden ourselves and let go of the guilt. That's one thing Christianity offers that is way cool. That's all I'm saying here.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
I am a Christian. Thessalonians is clear all laws are now overcome, done. Love is the new law and only law. There are no tasks, no levels, no sins to worry over. Just love each other.

I'm with you. Accepting unconditional love relieves the necessity to feel guilt and makes one capable of loving one's self unconditionally and be your very best.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes! That is the fundamental of christians religions - to forgive and be forgiven
As soon as one express sincere regrets and ask (jesus or god) for forgiving - she\he is forgiven. Often the priest will pay attention to the person ability to self-forgive.

At the basic of catholic religion there is a concept of perfection that is:
God created his creatures perfectly imperfect and ''He'' pays a special attention to the one who suffers , who fail, and ask other fellow human beings to be kind and generous to anyone in need.

The thing to do for the priest is just to listen sincerely with intend to help people alleviate their mental\emotional suffering - to let go a load, and to make them leave with a heart at peace. When we realize the priest is not judging, then, we can move on without carrying shame and guiltyness anymore and know we are loved the imprefect way we are.

Not different than a psych therapy - but it takes few minutes for on going stuff.
I usually do it for easter and christmas. I like. One time I just said : I have a lot and feel overwhelmed and lost...The priest, I knew hime, said Okay girl, now stop to take all onto your shoulders ($cientology sequel - holding the whole world) and be kind to you now. It was what I needed.
5 minutes it took!

And I have no problem that people say or think it is retard, crazy, stupid, funny, or laugh..I can laugh about it...SOme part ot the christians religions are retard too , some had been harmfull in the past, they lack so much respect to gay people, and womend who are forbiden to be priest..retards...they thing they are an elite...but this is the Institution.

when we were small child it was mandatory to get confessed each sunday. What would confess a small 6 yo child ??? :confused2: OH father John - I stole a candy in my sister candy jar...Okay girl - here is the prayer you shall say :ohmy:

Then, later teenagers were expected to confess kisses, and ''body scanning & exploring'' ... I've never been ask for such confession! I guess catholics parents found it safer if the priest would give a check on our sexual behavior - but they rarely did (they would avoid problems by keeping away of that). Also priests and nuns were our teachers so they already knew a big part of our sins and could help to list it:biggrin:

The catholics have tons of jokes about priests and confession as well as Jesus and God..they laugh and joke about it! No one take offense in it though!

i like this. A key is that no intermediary confessor is needed; one just tells God. Also most Protestants do not do confession. If there is no need because each soul talks to God then there is no authoritarian structure to forgiveness.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Well, yeh, but I like the basic human interaction. It keeps things real and we are naturally social creatures.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Many people have a belief in a superior force, energy, creator, universe, whatever they call it God, the infinite, ....

I myself have no idea of what there is :confused2: I know I will never know :confused2:
but sometimes I felt in my life, I was carried with a loving force. I could feel I was looked after or taken in arms..really...and I can say I got a few miracles.

Often I pray, which is to say thanks. I feel the connection and it's fine. I know I have the phone set but I don't know whom I'm talking too :biggrin: Crazy..I know! :biggrin:

But sometimes, when everthing seems like thre is no issue..I pray and feel the terminal is busy somewhere else..I go see the priest...frankly, to get comforted and reassured that things will settle fine ..so I keep faith. :confused2:

The priest may act as a friend, a listener, a psych, a spiritual consultant, a god self appointed representant, a jesus brother..whatever...but I like to think there is good priest, catholic, protestants, orthodox zen monk, whatever to listen to people and give them faith in better days when they suffer. There is a lot of homeless who only have nuns to talk to..they encounter no smile in a day...only the nun's smile....
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Many people have a belief in a superior force, energy, creator, universe, whatever they call it God, the infinite, ....

I myself have no idea of what there is :confused2: I know I will never know :confused2:
but sometimes I felt in my life, I was carried with a loving force. I could feel I was looked after or taken in arms..really...and I can say I got a few miracles.

Often I pray, which is to say thanks. I feel the connection and it's fine. I know I have the phone set but I don't know whom I'm talking too :biggrin: Crazy..I know! :biggrin:

But sometimes, when everthing seems like thre is no issue..I pray and feel the terminal is busy somewhere else..I go see the priest...frankly, to get comforted and reassured that things will settle fine ..so I keep faith. :confused2:

The priest may act as a friend, a listener, a psych, a spiritual consultant, a god self appointed representant, a jesus brother..whatever...but I like to think there is good priest, catholic, protestants, orthodox zen monk, whatever to listen to people and give them faith in better days when they suffer. There is a lot of homeless who only have nuns to talk to..they encounter no smile in a day...only the nun's smile....

:) I said it on Apollo. It is too big for human knowing to conceive of something so beyond as nature. And God would be beyond that. But love is the door and it speaks true.
 

Gib

Crusader
Confessions are ok if they float your boat, make you come, act as psychological masturbation, relief. But love doesn't demand them or need them. Love overrules all that judging stuff....

I never heard of confessions until my involvement in scientology, just explain'in a new angle so as to not make it one sided, if one were to do them. LOL

And yes, Love doesn't demand them.
 

SPsince83

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am a Christian. Thessalonians is clear all laws are now overcome, done. Love is the new law and only law. There are no tasks, no levels, no sins to worry over. Just love each other.

So..........Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law. Love under will.:coolwink::bong:
 
Top