CoS Srikes Back! Well, Sort Of....

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
The only OSA can defend themselves is by attacking the character of another.

They don't deal with any of the actual allegations, other than saying they never happened.

It is the only thing they are allowed to do per their own policy. Yet they still think the policy works. They are in a time warp and can never, ever get out of it. They are in a loop by virtue of following their policy. I used to think scientology was a self-correcting organization now I really see how self-defeating an organization it really is. This is the information age. They cannot rise to the occasion. They have no ability, through their own "training" to negotiate the level of communications required or expected in today's world. Their ability is limited by a) Hubbard's writings, b) the date of Hubbard's writings and c) the level of ability of their staff who are mostly uneducated and paid nothing...and if they are educated or have any common sense it is negated by scientology training/brainwashing and the fact they are only allowed to operate on "policy." See a. It's a loop. It is self-defeating. Yea!!
 
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LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
First step of the Emergency formula is promote. Since they spend half their statement (much more than usual) gushing, this fiasco over Debbie must have hit them pretty hard.

This is a new one: defrocked apostates. Since defrock means "1. To strip of priestly privileges and functions" and apostate is "a disloyal person who betrays or deserts his cause or religion or political party or friend etc," does that mean that ordinary run-of-the-mill apostates are still frocked?

Paul

Frock if I know! :hysterical:
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
I dont think you read or understood my post. I'm not going to bother to break it down any further but I will address your points below.

(also I do judge things differently depending on who says it. I said what was done to Cook was inexcusable, but unfortunately I can also say the same for some things she did to others. Some of the people you named were never in a position to cause great harm to others, or just never engaged in the abuse of others. Debbie is difficult because she engaged in some of the same behaviors she was a victim of later.
What is inaccurate is likening this woman to a whore - something I find extremely insulting, not to mention hypocritical. She's no more of a whore than you are, or anyone else doing their best to do a post in a Scientology organisation. So if she's a whore then every staff member is, which is frankly ridiculous.

Its your right to feel insulted, I won't send you to ethics. But also don't expect anyone to care whether you're insulted, free speech results in others being offended regularly.

Obviously the term "whore" is being used as an analogy, not literally. When applied as an analogy its implying someone is doing something immoral for money/status/ gain, hence why I didn't find it so off base. Crude? Sure. I think it ridiculous you think something applicable to Debbie is applicable to all staff. She was the top flag exec. It's like saying if the US Secretary of Defense is an asshole, so must every soldier in the US military. Debbie is in a much higher and different league than some lowly staff or even SO grunt.

Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in the fact many staff and SO members do immoral and abusive things to meet stats or make things "go right."

I will also guess you must be from an older generation where the word whore was a huge deal, was literal or used to shame women. Now a days men can be whores, people are political whores, label whores, etc... For better or worse It's obtained common usage beyond meaning hooker having sex for money and that's because people related the behaviors associated with broader behaviors within society, just like the poster found similarities in the book he read about a pimps methodology with his victims/ whores with DM's behavior towards his execs.

Besides, I think the main point the poster was making was DM behaving like a pimp. Why didn't that get your dander up too????



In my opinion torture of ANY PERSON is not justified for any reason. The ends DO NOT justify the means.

I totally agree. I just wish LRH, DM, Cook and others did too. Unfortunately LRH taught Scientologists the ends do justify the means, his policies teach anything is permissible if it's for the greater good of Scientology. Hence why we have such a huge problem and so much evil manifested in Scientology. Hitler and Stalin would have applauded KSW.
 
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Yes, I agree that all things considered, the physical abuse she described was not extreme. Her torture was largely psychological in nature.



She made choices that led her there after she was thoroughly indoctrinated in the Scientology mindset. Her decisions were all based on and around Scientology. She started her training in her early teens, was a kid when she signed her billion year contract. All she knew was Scientology. So her decisions were made based on her belief that Scientology was the only hope of man. It’s right out of Lifton’s 8 Criteria for Mind Control. Point 5: Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.

Incredibly easy to justify your actions in light of such a ‘truth”.



Being Captain FSO meant making money, first and foremost, so I am sure Debbie did or condoned a lot of messed up things to make the almighty target. I'm sure she degraded and abused her share of people. I'm also sure she was degraded and abused over the years. It was my experience that occasional abuse and degradation are part and parcel of life on staff. I can’t count the times I was reamed out by a senior and then bitched out for responding and told to “get my TRs in” or go to ethics. Enough “bullbait” whether on course or on post, and you start to be numb to it. I am in no way saying that is a good thing. I’m just saying that it happens.



I have my own theories. Mind you, I’m no expert but I play one on the internet! :p

I think Debbie was heavily traumatised and very ill when she finally left. She was probably in a great deal of fear, emotional pain and spiritual crisis. It took her a couple of years to reach the point where she was angry enough to confront her abuser.

It’s common for people who are leaving a cult to still adhere to or defend certain aspects of it. She hasn’t started to question “Source” and I don’t think that she will until DM is long gone. He’s too perfect an example of the Hubbard SP for her to see beyond that.

Illnesses which go on and on wearing you down, keeping you stressed are themselves abusive IMO. The term "abusive" is not quite right because it is not being down by someone, but it feels like abuse, because it doesn't let up, it won't resolve, like the flu or other illnesses which have a recovery or cure to look forward to. So it feels just like abuse. Then in her case, there is the human inflicted abuse on top of it.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
I don't disagree with anything you say. I do understand Cook, via indoctrination, rationalized everything she did as being for the greater good and/or on policy. My main issue with is that while I understand all this, I can not always tolerate it as an excuse. It's a slippery slope, but we didn't forgive the Nazis or Khmer Rogue because they truly thought they were doing it for the greatest good or were throughly indoctrinated. Civilized people decided "just following orders" doesn't wash and has been said many times the road to hell can be paved with the best of intentions.

I don’t think anyone should get a free pass on crimes of any nature, even if it means going to prison as an accomplice in order to make the crime known. I’m not preaching forgiveness. Just understanding and compassion for a person who became a member of an incredibly destructive cult at a very young age and has decades of heavy indoctrination. It takes time to decompress. Everyone is different.

I guess I just see there is a certain amount participating, allowing and being silent about abuse that many execs pass in their ambition to get to the top of the org board that can't be rationalized or excused due to indoctrination. For instance Witnessing abusive, depraved incidents towards children (cadet org) and the obscene conditions they lived in. People do know deep down certain things are wrong, cruel, sadistic - but they push down their natural reaction for a variety of reasons. (if they don't have those natural reactions then they are sociopaths and that's another ballgame.)

FWIW I agree and I can’t explain it to my own satisfaction, outside the context I mentioned earlier of recovery and decompression. I reported the crimes I witnessed.

I guess what bothers me the most is as Debbie wakes up to what via her work and dedication to Scientology created, she still is supporting it. It seems she is mainly upset with the last few years when she collided with DM, but describes most of her career until then in glowing terms.

She hasn’t woken up in that direction IMO. I think she sees DM as the absolute source of ‘what’s wrong with Scientology”. She sees HIM as the thing she helped create and everything else as an offshoot of his poison.

It bothers me to no end that people can live and see the horrible, fucked up reality that is the end result of their belief system yet still promote and embrace it because they have some fantasy about how it should be if was only followed 100% correctly by everyone. I hate to use this comparison but it's like defending National Socialism by saying Hitler just did it wrong, or communism is a great system but others have just done it wrong. Fuck that, you got the reality not the fantasy. What Scientology is today is reality, it is FACT. Just because you fantasize it would be different in your dreamworld is bullshit. She is promoting a system where she knows firsthand what the end result, the factual reality IS just because she's holding on to a delusion of what she thinks it "should" be. That's my main beef with Cook and others in this mindset. Until your precious beliefs aren't in practice in the real world destroying lives and sadistically abusing people then it is irresponsible and evil to keep promoting them just because you "believe" it "could" be different in some altered non-existent reality in your head.

She built her entire life around Scientology, so I imagine it might take quite some time for her to ever directly connect her belief system with her experiences. Keep in mind, Hubbard wrote his policies in such a way as to trigger acceptance in the reader. It’s easy to find benevolence if that’s what you are expecting to find. I did it for years.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
Illnesses which go on and on wearing you down, keeping you stressed are themselves abusive IMO. The term "abusive" is not quite right because it is not being down by someone, but it feels like abuse, because it doesn't let up, it won't resolve, like the flu or other illnesses which have a recovery or cure to look forward to. So it feels just like abuse. Then in her case, there is the human inflicted abuse on top of it.

I agree. Chronic conditions, even if low level, can wear a person out. Chronic bullying, or living in a constant state of anxiety, fear and impending unknown disaster, can be devastating. What feels worse though is the idea that the situation is never-ending and can't be changed by anything one does. Loss of hope is killing.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
(also I do judge things differently depending on who says it. I said what was done to Cook was inexcusable, but unfortunately I can also say the same for some things she did to others. Some of the people you named were never in a position to cause great harm to others, or just never engaged in the abuse of others. Debbie is difficult because she engaged in some of the same behaviors she was a victim of later.


Its your right to feel insulted, I won't send you to ethics. But also don't expect anyone to care whether you're insulted, free speech results in others being offended regularly.

Obviously the term "whore" is being used as an analogy, not literally. When applied as an analogy its implying someone is doing something immoral for money/status/ gain, hence why I didn't find it so off base. Crude? Sure. I think it ridiculous you think something applicable to Debbie is applicable to all staff. She was the top flag exec. It's like saying if the US Secretary of Defense is an asshole, so must every soldier in the US military. Debbie is in a much higher and different league than some lowly staff or even SO grunt.

Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in the fact many staff and SO members do immoral and abusive things to meet stats or make things "go right."

I will also guess you must be from an older generation where the word whore was a huge deal, was literal or used to shame women. Now a days men can be whores, people are political whores, label whores, etc... For better or worse It's obtained common usage beyond meaning hooker having sex for money and that's because people related the behaviors associated with broader behaviors within society, just like the poster found similarities in the book he read about a pimps methodology with his victims/ whores with DM's behavior towards his execs.

Besides, I think the main point the poster was making was DM behaving like a pimp. Why didn't that get your dander up too????

Sexual slurs on men are not the same as sexual slurs for a woman. There is no real equivalent degrading term for men as 'slut' for a woman. Yes, it does get my dander up because it's a cheap way to degrade a woman - to put her down - especially when sex has nothing to do with it. It's also as ridiculous as likening her to Stalin and Pol Pot. Unless you are inferring that Debbie was deliberately involved in Lisa McPherson's death. I just don't think that's the case. She was and is a deluded follower of an evil con game, and really I don't see any difference in the way she behaved to the way I behaved except that she held a higher post. As you said, staff violate their consciences and principles quite often when posed with impossible problems. Marty understood Debbie's position as messenger for that order and that she didn't want to do it. In a way that was another form of psychological abuse - to use the power differential to coerce others to abuse. Also, Debbie did alert fellow Scientologists to the realities of the Hole in her New Year's Eve email - saying how wrong it was, so I don't know where people get the idea that she didn't care about Heber and the others.

The other problem I have with these threads is that an ex comes out and speaks publicly and as soon as they stick their heads up, at the time when they most need support, people start attacking them and tearing them down. It boggles my mind that any former high level executive would be willing to speak out given the crap they get for their trouble - not only from Scientology but from people who did the same things themselves - regged the public for all they were worth, or put people through hell in ethics and fucked with their minds in a totally unqualified and often dangerous fashion. We had introversion rundowns in ACT org FFS. We did exactly the same things. Why am I less guilty than Debbie Cook? Why is any staff member? We regged a guy for his complete redundancy package once - in an org the size of a flea.

Anyway, whatever.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
really I don't see any difference in the way she behaved to the way I behaved except that she held a higher post.

I think we've found the root of the problem.

Also, Debbie did alert fellow Scientologists to the realities of the Hole in her New Year's Eve email - saying how wrong it was...

NO she did not. What letter did you read? She didn't even mention DM by name.

Maybe this is why you aren't understanding my posts, you only read what you want too not what's actually there.

The other problem I have with these threads is that an ex comes out and speaks publicly and as soon as they stick their heads up, at the time when they most need support, people start attacking them and tearing them down. It boggles my mind that any former high level executive would be willing to speak out given the crap they get for their trouble - not only from Scientology but from people who did the same things themselves - regged the public for all they were worth, or put people through hell in ethics and fucked with their minds in a totally unqualified and often dangerous fashion. We had introversion rundowns in ACT org FFS. We did exactly the same things.

There are many people here who were victims under Debbie's rule at flag, so should they just get on the bandwagon and let bygones be bygones? Should we do the same for DM if leaves and tells tales out of school?

I find it disturbing you think people should be gagged from speaking about Debbie as anything but a victim to be praised - the fact is she is both a victim and a perpetrator. It would be much easier if she fit into some easy stereotype we could all feel one way about, but she doesn't.

Plus Debbie has found plenty of support since leaving - people paid for her defense! They have donated thousands to help her and the media has certainly portrayed her ordeals with the utmost compassion. But you're upset because some people here want to discuss the broader implications of her 25 year career with CoS, because we aren't all celebrating her as a model to emulate? This type of black and white, good vs bad thinking, simple minded thinking about people or ideas is what gets people sucked into cults.

It's important to have discussion, about people taking responsibility for their actions even if they were in the cult.

Without hard truths and discussions people like Debbie will continue to believe Scientology is wonderful, the only problem is DM, or improper tech application, and lots of other bullshit some people use to keep believing the con LRH sold them. If Debbie never faces the fact her actions at Flag were harmful, under KSW, she will never wake up, she will continue the delusion. Just because she suffered, the harm and suffering she caused is not erased. However, I think people would be a lot more accepting and forgiving if she wasn't at the same time detailing the horrors, promoting how wonderful Scientology is - that's dangerous, delusional and it needs to be pointed out.

I think if Debbie ever wakes up she probably will be apologizing to those she harmed, and the apologies will be appreciated and accepted. But until that happens Debbie continues to think any harm for the greater good of Scientology is acceptable and is encouraging everyone to adopt the mindset that caused all this suffering. Like a communist apologizing to victims of the gulags, but at the same time assuring them Stalin and communism are still really great!

Will you accept DM with open arms if he leaves and tells everyone it was all because of LRH's teachings and policies? Will you get upset if people question his crimes because he was under the spell of the cult think?

Why am I less guilty than Debbie Cook? Why is any staff member?

Again I think your reaction is due to your personal issues. Many posters here have dealt with varying levels of remorse because of things they did while in the cult. I think it shows their true humanity and healing has occurred that they no longer rationalize things they did with Hubbard's thinking, or simply play a victim. Everyone who "worked" in Scientology seems to have regrets or guilt for things they did to others in the name of KSW, the levels depending on various factors. I think this healthy, part if their healing and true growth after leaving and something they will eventually be at peace at.


We regged a guy for his complete redundancy package once
That's awful, I hope he didn't end up in the streets as a result. Sucking another person dry to their last dime is somehow celebrated in CoS and that's my whole point - it reverses your moral compass, ends justify the means.



Anyway, whatever.[/QUOTE]
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
I think we've found the root of the problem.

The root of the problem is Scientology.

NO she did not. What letter did you read? She didn't even mention DM by name.

This. From her email:

"Well, after that I got to spend some quality time with Heber, Ray Mithoff, Norman Starkey, Guillaume, as well as the entirety of International Management at the time, who were all off post and doing very long and harsh ethics programs. These have gone on for years and to the only result of that they are still off post. There is no denying that these top executives have all gradually disappeared from the scene. You don’t see them at the big events anymore or on the ship at Maiden Voyage."

"David Miscavige has now become the “leader” of the Scientology religion. Yet what LRH left behind was a huge structure to properly manage all aspects of the Scientology religion. He put a complete and brilliant organizational structure there, not one individual. There never was supposed to be a “leader” other than LRH himself as the goal maker for our group."

Which letter did you read?


Maybe this is why you aren't understanding my posts, you only read what you want too not what's actually there.

See above.

There are many people here who were victims under Debbie's rule at flag, so should they just get on the bandwagon and let bygones be bygones? Should we do the same for DM if leaves and tells tales out of school?

I find it disturbing you think people should be gagged from speaking about Debbie as anything but a victim to be praised - the fact is she is both a victim and a perpetrator. It would be much easier if she fit into some easy stereotype we could all feel one way about, but she doesn't.

Plus Debbie has found plenty of support since leaving - people paid for her defense! They have donated thousands to help her and the media has certainly portrayed her ordeals with the utmost compassion. But you're upset because some people here want to discuss the broader implications of her 25 year career with CoS, because we aren't all celebrating her as a model to emulate? This type of black and white, good vs bad thinking, simple minded thinking about people or ideas is what gets people sucked into cults.

It's important to have discussion, about people taking responsibility for their actions even if they were in the cult.

Without hard truths and discussions people like Debbie will continue to believe Scientology is wonderful, the only problem is DM, or improper tech application, and lots of other bullshit some people use to keep believing the con LRH sold them. If Debbie never faces the fact her actions at Flag were harmful, under KSW, she will never wake up, she will continue the delusion. Just because she suffered, the harm and suffering she caused is not erased. However, I think people would be a lot more accepting and forgiving if she wasn't at the same time detailing the horrors, promoting how wonderful Scientology is - that's dangerous, delusional and it needs to be pointed out.

I think if Debbie ever wakes up she probably will be apologizing to those she harmed, and the apologies will be appreciated and accepted. But until that happens Debbie continues to think any harm for the greater good of Scientology is acceptable and is encouraging everyone to adopt the mindset that caused all this suffering. Like a communist apologizing to victims of the gulags, but at the same time assuring them Stalin and communism are still really great!

Will you accept DM with open arms if he leaves and tells everyone it was all because of LRH's teachings and policies? Will you get upset if people question his crimes because he was under the spell of the cult think?

Actually I thought ESMB was to heal, meet old friends and support each other. Not tear each other down for what we did while we were in Scientology.

And as far as taking responsibility - how has anyone done that more than going - "Yeah, I did that and it sucked"? Has anyone paid back the money they regged from somebody?

What do they owe? What is their responsibility? I would say where crimes have been committed that person is answerable for that. Where a staff member has done things they're ashamed of then all they can do is learn from that and maybe apologise and MOVE ON. The point is not to be stuck in the past forever, any more than any other human being.

Again I think your reaction is due to your personal issues. Many posters here have dealt with varying levels of remorse because of things they did while in the cult. I think it shows their true humanity and healing has occurred that they no longer rationalize things they did with Hubbard's thinking, or simply play a victim. Everyone who "worked" in Scientology seems to have regrets or guilt for things they did to others in the name of KSW, the levels depending on various factors. I think this healthy, part if their healing and true growth after leaving and something they will eventually be at peace at.

My reaction is due to a lifetime of hearing women called "sluts". I think it's disgusting, usually hypocritical, and uncalled for. Why can't people just live and let live? Why do they have to tear other people down?

That's awful, I hope he didn't end up in the streets as a result. Sucking another person dry to their last dime is somehow celebrated in CoS and that's my whole point - it reverses your moral compass, ends justify the means.

No. He easily could have been though. And yes Scientology does reverse your moral compass. It's always the ends justify the means.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
True, but it is a good point. The word torture is strong and most people associate
it with the obscene treatment POWs have endured - and though what Cook and others endured is horrible it is not on the same level as POWs in Vietnam, Russia, Germany, etc... I do think mental torture/torment is what Cook endured, the physical end of it was minor in comparison.

I have not yet checked to see if anyone else has mentioned what I am about so if it is redudant I apologize.

With her having Fibromyalgia the torture did move into the physical aspect, regardless of whether the CoS intended that or not. And granted it is not like hte torture of PoWs and MIAs but the physical damage was amplified due to the Fibromyalgia.

Based on my knowledge of MS and after speaking to a person with MS I conclude that Debbie Cook did indeed go through some physial torture by virtue of her debilitation, a debilatation which the CoS would ignore due to the vaunted tech of LRH.

Rd00
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
True, but it is a good point. The word torture is strong and most people associate
it with the obscene treatment POWs have endured - and though what Cook and others endured is horrible it is not on the same level as POWs in Vietnam, Russia, Germany, etc... I do think mental torture/torment is what Cook endured, the physical end of it was minor in comparison.

The other end of it was Debbie did make choices that led to INT and the hole. She saw the criminal conduct and abusive practices at Flag - they did horrible things to public and SO members alike. Did she really think an organization with such inhuman policies and behavior, which she oversaw at flag for 20 years, was going to treat her with kid gloves when displeased with her?

I won't ever say Cook deserved what was done to her in the hole. By the same token the people in the hole didn't deserve her abuse, nor did the countless people at flag. However, there were lots of red flags Cook observed over the years she chose to ignore or accept -there was a long history that led to the hole at int. One doesn't get called to Int as a golden girl by Miscavige due to their compassion and fair treatment of others.

I still can't fathom if Cook was so outraged and upset by her treatment in the hole how she could sleep at night knowing fellow SO was still sleeping on the floor, infested with ants, in baking temp wondering if someone would burst in at 3 am to frog march them for a dunk into a pond full of scum. Nor how she can still encourage others to believe in Scientology when that is what created this situation and for every "win" she gloats about I am certain almost every person she knows heavily involved in Scientology ended up hurt, victimized, financially ruined, etc..

She still has yet to shake off the ingrained cognitive dissonance. She has worked not to see the outpoints as outpoints for her entire adult life. She has taken the blinders off in four years to where she sees something is not right.

First she had to step up to where she stopped blaming herself for her own failings and transgressions, and then move beyond the basic mindfuck that she has lost her eternity.

Now she is trying within the confines of "Scientology and LRH are valuable and this guy is not following policy" to find a way through.

The people in the hole deserve it, they obviously pulled it in, she thinks. She probably thought she pulled it in at one point.

She might eventually become compassionate, empathic. But that's quite a stretch from what she made herself as Flag Captain for so many years. You'd have to become nothing and re-form...
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
The root of the problem is Scientology.

This. From her email:

"Well, after that I got to spend some quality time with Heber, Ray Mithoff, Norman Starkey, Guillaume, as well as the entirety of International Management at the time, who were all off post and doing very long and harsh ethics programs. These have gone on for years and to the only result of that they are still off post. There is no denying that these top executives have all gradually disappeared from the scene. You don’t see them at the big events anymore or on the ship at Maiden Voyage."

"David Miscavige has now become the “leader” of the Scientology religion. Yet what LRH left behind was a huge structure to properly manage all aspects of the Scientology religion. He put a complete and brilliant organizational structure there, not one individual. There never was supposed to be a “leader” other than LRH himself as the goal maker for our group."

Which letter did you read?

I thought she was careful not to mention DM by name, I was wrong.

However, I don't think a "harsh ethics program" = telling everyone about the hole. The average Scio has 0 reality about INT and DM's abuses. They do however have experience in ethics so I don't see how the average cult member would ever equate "harsh ethics" equal to "locked in a trailer, infested with ants, in 100 degree heat and abused constanly via a variety of methods and group forced confessionals."

If anything it was her attempt to speak in code. DM and others with actual info like us could read "harsh ethics at Int" & years off post to mean the hole, but the average Scio that letter was intended for would never make that huge mental leap. They could only imagine their own ethics experience, notch it up a bit and extend its duration.

She was extremely careful not to overtly mention anything in that letter she thought would violate that crazy agreement. I would love nothing more than a follow up letter where every indignity and fact about the hole is detailed in depth to the bots. Using the term "heavy ethics" just makes it too easy for them to write off as something justified under LRH policy or tech.

I think you interpret ANY criticism or discussion of Debbie as some how meaning she's not supported here or her actions aren't respected. I respect the fact Debbie finally broke her silence after 4 years via that letter, it took courage.

However, I have detailed here that I think when people leave the cult due to being personally mistreated haven't really "left" and have a long road out. Those who leave because they have insight into the con or the fiction, will have much better results breaking the mental shackles. Debbie, unfortunately, only left because SHE was abused, not the mistreatment of others, not because of any insight into the mechanism that created that enviro or abuse. She's still a KSW gal and I think many here can't become total cheerleaders for anyone still promoting that schtick.

BTW, ESMB maybe a place for healing, but healing also means confronting past actions, not glossing over them. It's a part of the process. A major caveat is Debbie is not a member here, she would never hang out or speak with all the DBs and SPs here. She is allowed to think that way, but by the same token it doesn't endear us to have a "no criticism" allowed policy on poor Debbie either.
 
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La La Lou Lou

Crusader
I have not yet checked to see if anyone else has mentioned what I am about so if it is redudant I apologize.

With her having Fibromyalgia the torture did move into the physical aspect, regardless of whether the CoS intended that or not. And granted it is not like hte torture of PoWs and MIAs but the physical damage was amplified due to the Fibromyalgia.

Based on my knowledge of MS and after speaking to a person with MS I conclude that Debbie Cook did indeed go through some physial torture by virtue of her debilitation, a debilatation which the CoS would ignore due to the vaunted tech of LRH.

Rd00


Wow! yes really good point!

Stress caused pain hurts. Physically!
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
BTW, what is the next action in this San Antonio court case, and when will it happen? I've lost track of that.

TG1
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
BTW, what is the next action in this San Antonio court case, and when will it happen? I've lost track of that.

TG1

Next was supposed to be Scientology's motion for summary judgement but apparently the church's attorneys have yet to file for it. I keep checking for info but so far, nothing.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
Wow! yes really good point!

Stress caused pain hurts. Physically!

The person that I talked to who has MS but who also understands Fybromyalgia said that sometimes even just touching the person with Fybromyalgia can cause great pain.

I know the hell this person with MS goes through sometimes and I just have to state unequivocably that Debbie Cook was going through hell.

MS and Fibromyalgia have similar symptons. Sad thing is that when Pope on a Rope catches wind of this he will merely view it as her being PTS and having overts and she pulled it in and now she is dramatizing being an SP.

Scientology is the only game where everybody wins because after all they know that we are more than bodies and what the hey, it's just a body, if the body is crapped out just drop it and move on and get another one, there is work to do in this fun game of Scientology.

Rd00
 

Lone Star

Crusader
STATEMENT ON DEBBIE COOK--PART II
17 February 2012

Much hoopla has been made over the so-called fact that Debbie Cook was a revered and respected Captain of the FSO in Clearwater, FL. Actually Ms. Cook was never the Captain of anything within the Sea Organization. "Captain" was merely a humorous title given to her by fellow staff members. For example: "There goes Captain Debbie, strutting around like she runs the place". The fact is we were all very patient with Debbie's delusions of grandeur. We all tried to help her and rehabilitate her. But the technology of Scientology only works if you are honest and give up your overt and withheld actions. Ms. Cook obviously never did that fully and as a result she blew and is blaming the leadership for the very crimes that she herself committed. Please look up the definition for Overt motivator sequence in our Tech Dictionary, available for sale at any of our local Orgs.

There is no such thing as "The Hole". The RPF is a relaxing retreat for staff members who need a rejuvenating break. We deny that Ms. Cook even came to California during the past decade. There is no record or memory of her being here. She is delusional. The "missing" executives she listed in her Black PR email are all on double top secret assignment to infiltrate the suppressive Government of Bulgravia in order to make that zone safe for Scientology. Thanks to her email their efforts are now blown and will now be reassigned to Australia. They will each undergo plastic surgery and receive new identities.


Despite all of this evil intention to destroy the Church we are growing by leaps and bounds. That is all anyone needs to consider. Rising stats indicate that we are the most ethical organization the planet, and within the planetary confederation of which "Earth" is a member. Since our first Statement two days ago we have received the updated stats, at 2:01 in the afternoon yesterday, Thursday. All stats in the first Statement are now 2Xed. We expect a further doubling in the coming week.

Kathy True is available for any questions regarding the Church and it's leadership. We only select the most ethical among us to be our Spokesperson. David Miscavige is busy right now compiling more heretofore undiscovered writings by our Founder. A New Release will be announced this Fall, which greatly angers Debbie Cook, hence her attempts to derail us. Our members eagerly await the New Release, and will gladly and voluntarily pay for it.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
I have not yet checked to see if anyone else has mentioned what I am about so if it is redudant I apologize.

With her having Fibromyalgia the torture did move into the physical aspect, regardless of whether the CoS intended that or not. And granted it is not like hte torture of PoWs and MIAs but the physical damage was amplified due to the Fibromyalgia.

Based on my knowledge of MS and after speaking to a person with MS I conclude that Debbie Cook did indeed go through some physial torture by virtue of her debilitation, a debilatation which the CoS would ignore due to the vaunted tech of LRH.

Rd00

I don't disagree with your point at all but I would like to say Fibromyalgia and MS are very different. MS is a horrible, medically verified, neurological disease. A good friend of mine in high school had to care for his mother with MS and it was a really awful disease to watch ravage the body. She was a severe case, had lost the ability to walk, etc...

Fibromyalgia is more of a grey area in medicine. I know people who say they have it say it is painful. It is usually viewed as a neuropsychiatric condition, which makes total sense with Debbie if you consider what she endured on a psychological level - maybe in a quest to ensure she would leave that environment physical problems manifested to prevent her from continuing her work which was so damaging.

Anti-depressants are considered very effective treatment for the pain of many FM patients, which is really awful because I bet Debbie won't take anything she thinks is a "psych med" that could probably really help her condition. It would shatter some of her brainwashing about psychs and their meds if she took a "psych med" and she had a "win" with it by it relieving some of her pain.

Also, I will admit a bit of bias when it comes to FM. A relative who is a doctor had a lot of bad experience with people claiming "FM" in order to get prescriptions for pain killers and abuse pain medications. It became the "disease du jour" as he put it because there is no diagnosis available besides the patients' word and any of them can read the symptoms. This then was picked up by pill addicts as the perfect thing to complain about to try and get pain pills. I'm certainly not saying this is true of FM patients in general, but it quickly got a bad rap due to this.

I do believe their is a big connection between mental trauma/ depression and FM.

FM also tends to be one of those strange "western diseases." You don't see any significant diagnosis of it occurring in Africa, Asia, Russia, and other cultures. (Whiplash is another example, very little incident of "whiplash" outside of the USA.)

Sorry, don't want any derail on this subject because their are bound to be some posters here with FM who will have a different point of view. I tend to ramble but my main point is the psychological stress and trauma Debbie experienced was probably a major factor behind her FM diagnosis.
 
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