Course Sup and husband OT VIII - LEAVE THE CULT OF SCIENTOLOGY

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
:unsure:
But, don't you get it, they have to manage to say that "the current Scn organization is NUTS", but also that "we LOVE RON"! :happydance:

It takes time, and many words, and leaps of logic, and all sorts of mental gymnastics to make sense of nonsense. THAT is what any of these long-winded DOUBT FORMULAS are. They involve trying to explain how crazy it all is, meaning how crazy the Scientology ORGANIZATION is, while still viewing it all (examining it) through the lens of Hubbard's Scientology policies, statements, claims and dogma.

Of course, I didn't bother reading it, so I might be wrong, but so far, it has been true that "if you read one of them then you have read them all"! :yes:


I have read most all of those Doubt Formulas posted over at MartyWorld.

They get a lot of wins repeating back what Ron taught them in Chinese School.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
But, don't you get it, they have to manage to say that "the current Scn organization is NUTS", but also that "we LOVE RON"! :happydance:

It takes time, and many words, and leaps of logic, and all sorts of mental gymnastics to make sense of nonsense. THAT is what any of these long-winded DOUBT FORMULAS are. They involve trying to explain how crazy it all is, meaning how crazy the Scientology ORGANIZATION is, while still viewing it all (examining it) through the lens of Hubbard's Scientology policies, statements, claims and dogma.

Not that I disagree but it's easy for people who have their heads on the right way round to mock the afflicted. However this is not very kind or helpful.

But I wish, with a great wish, that there was an abbreviated, tick-this-box Doubt Formula that didn't look like a final year essay project. tl;dr is tl;dr.

Of course, I didn't bother reading it, so I might be wrong, but so far, it has been true that "if you read one of them then you have read them all"!

And there are 20,000 more to come (YMMV).
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
..

Snip:

All of it was pretty standard fair (literally and figuratively) but one thing really stood out for me. The constant reference back to what "RON SAYS".

The smell of fear and insecurity of grown adults relying on someone else to tell them what to do and what to think is.......soul deadening!

In Scientology where there's smoke, there's burnt out people who clearly did not make it thru the "wall of fire" because they are ridiculously overwhelmed by Ron and his delusional ideas. Freedom from overwhelm? LOL.

I wish them better days. They won't find what they are looking for in Scientology but right now they haven't the slightest clue that they are still in the same cult.

Is this mean? No. It's just honest.

That's why I'm only half-joking when I refer to Marty's flock as Ron's Witnesses.

His blog is mainly a place for people to express their Scientological Piety by loudly proclaiming their love and admiration for Hubbard and his Tech'. It's a Charismatic, born - again style of Scientology. and your faith in Ron has to be shouted out loud and often. You have to witness. You have to worship.

Do you have L Ron Hubbard in your heart?

Have you given your life to him?

Are you saved?


1992_does_god_care_22_large.jpg


*As regards these recent defectors, good luck to them.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Not that I disagree but it's easy for people who have their heads on the right way round to mock the afflicted. However this is not very kind or helpful.

But I wish, with a great wish, that there was an abbreviated, tick-this-box Doubt Formula that didn't look like a final year essay project. tl;dr is tl;dr.



And there are 20,000 more to come (YMMV).

I agree and I think this would be a great task for Hellie: mock up the tick box doubt formula and leaving the church routing form. :biggrin:
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
..

I forced myself to read almost all of it. Kinda like those serial killer movies where the detective has to get into the mindset of the killer and goes to a very dark place (starting to go insane), but in the end catches him.

I like to occasionally get down on the mean streets and hear and feel the sounds of the ghetto to know what's really out there.

All of it was pretty standard fair (literally and figuratively) but one thing really stood out for me. The constant reference back to what "RON SAYS".

The smell of fear and insecurity of grown adults relying on someone else to tell them what to do and what to think is.......soul deadening!

Adults are supposed to think and reason for themselves. These folks are frozen in some kind of stultified freeze frame arrested development.

It's really awful to see the terrible shape they are in psychologically while they are reporting big wins over at indie world. Not long before that they were reporting big wins at COS world.

The "wins" are smoke.

In Scientology where there's smoke, there's burnt out people who clearly did not make it thru the "wall of fire" because they are ridiculously overwhelmed by Ron and his delusional ideas. Freedom from overwhelm? LOL.

I wish them better days. They won't find what they are looking for in Scientology but right now they haven't the slightest clue that they are still in the same cult.

Is this mean? No. It's just honest.

QFT
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
That's why I'm only half-joking when I refer to Marty's flock as Ron's Witnesses.

His blog is mainly a place for people to express their Scientological Piety, by loudly proclaiming their love and admiration for Hubbard and his Tech'. It's a Charismatic, born - again style of Scientology. and your faith in Ron has to be shouted out loud and often. You have to witness. You have to worship.

Do you have L Ron Hubbard in your heart?

Have you given your life to him?

Are you saved?


*As regards these recent defectors, good luck to them.

The MARTYANS are now going to chinese school this... :hysterical:
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
I have not posted recently but I simply HAVE to now! Yes, you are right there are lots and lots of us "under the radar".

Each of us have our own reasons for not speaking up yet.

I just received a panicky sounding call from a friend at my org. she received Susan Cranes doubt formula in her private email account. She wanted to know if I had received one. I told her no.

Well, I checked another account I rarely use and there it was!

All I can say at the moment is they must have a HUGE list. This account is not the one I use for any scientology related comm!

So huge that I still can't get my name off of it and I've been out for many, many years. At least the Susan Crane email said you could ask off the email list. which I will do after I finish my coffee.

If the list is getting people to LOOK, I guess I can suffer being called a ' Dear Scientologist' this one last time.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Not that I disagree but it's easy for people who have their heads on the right way round to mock the afflicted. However this is not very kind or helpful.

But I wish, with a great wish, that there was an abbreviated, tick-this-box Doubt Formula that didn't look like a final year essay project. tl;dr is tl;dr.

And there are 20,000 more to come (YMMV).

Note: I am not talking directly to any of them, am not in a position to be kind or helpful, and if I was, I would manage my comm quite differently.

I am here on ESMB talking to MANY other people who are largely "out", and who also "get the ridiculousness" of these "doubt formulas". My comm was directed to THEM. I was having a conversation with them. These goofy Doubt Formulas are the topic of this conversation.

Now, if someone comes over here and reads this (and a great many other things), and feels "mocked", well, as the saying goes, they can "change the channel". Which explains why few show up HERE.

Here is a better version of an HONEST Doubt Formula:

1. Inform oneself honestly of the actual intentions and activities of that group, project or organization, brushing aside all bias and rumor.

As for intentions, the REAL intentions of Scientology are to MAKE MONEY and CONSOLIDATE POWER AND CONTROL OVER OTHERS. I have never seen any real life examples where the CLAIMED intentions were realized through any application of Scientology Tech, such as making a better world, freeing people, increasing free speech, improving honesty, or reducing crime.

The activities are largely a pretense. Scientology pretends to be helping people. It pretends to be able to change conditions for the better. A major activity of Scientology is PR. For the most part, what parades around as "positive activities" is PR of such things, as seen in endless events, briefings, Chinese School, etc.

Through non-stop PR and indoctrination, Scientology spreads the rumor and builds a firm bias in members that a) Scientology is Man's only hope, b) Scientology possesses the ONLY valid data on life on planet Earth, and 3) anyone against any aspect of Scientology must be EVIL. Thus, any over-indoctrinated Scientologist is incapable of doing an honest Doubt Formula, because the BIAS has been set deeply already (for all things Hubbard & Scientology).

A key activity is the non-stop lying of the Church of Scientology, which originated with the endless fictions of Hubbard (which exist as PART of the subject of Scientology).

A key activity of Scientology is forced diconnection, based on the policies (theories) of Hubbard. This activity constantly breaks up families and disrupts sane and decent communication.

Another key aspect of Scientology is "handling" anyone who disagrees with anything Hubbard or the C of S ever said or did. This aspect involves HURTING innocent people, such as Paulette Cooper. Over many years MANY people have been intentional hurt by the application of Fair Game, "handling critics", initiating overwhelming lawsuits, sending paid PIs after people, and generally causing pain and pressure into people's lives (to change their behavior to a way Scientology desires). This intention and activity stems from exact LRH policy.

I could go on an on. I could attach many many pages of real life examples. This is the BRIEF version.

2. Examine the statistics of the individual, group, project or organization.

There are no actual Clears who exhibit what Hubbard defined and claimed.

There are no actual OTs who exhibit what Hubbard defined and claimed.

There are many broken families.

There are many upset people.

This group causes endless hardship to people by faithfully applying Hubbard's "hard sell", thus sucking them dry of time, energy and money.

The accepting and following of Scientology data creates FANATICS on a continual basis.

Number of Lies - in AFFLUENCE

Number of False Claims Made by Hubbard and the C of S - in AFFLUENCE

Number of Nasty Covert Ops Run by OSA (hidden from all staff and public) - in AFFLUENCE

Amount of Negative Media Coverage - in AFFLUENCE

3. Decide on the basis of "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics" whether or not it should be attacked, harmed or suppressed or helped.

Attacked, harmed and suppressed. The Scientology subject materials, as the basis of the poor stats, intentions and activities, should also be open to intensive analysis, criticism, and severely attacked.

Hubbard and the Church of Scientology aim and succeed at deceiving many people. THAT needs to be attacked and suppressed.

4. Evaluate oneself or one's own group, project or organization as to intentions and objectives.

To expose and stop the real or imagined intentions and real activities of Hubbard & Scientology.

and so forth . . . . . .

What is so often missing from these "generic" Doubt Formulas that are written when one abandons the corporate Church is the admittance and acknowledgment that HUBBARD is THE SOURCE of all the crazy policies, that when followed directly result in the POOR STATS and INEFFECTIVE, DECEITFUL AND NASTY ACTIVITIES.

But if these folks bother, they will probably write a few more Doubt Formulas along the way. One of the more important formulas will be written on Hubbard hisself. This is tricky though because Hubbard HID his intentions so very well under a veil of repeated PR and exaggerated claims, PR and claims which spring from the pages of any book or policy. Or from any taped lecture. One has to figure out that the claims, and the majority of the positive goals and aims that you agree with ARE ONLY PR and of the nature of loud assertions and noisy statements that only pretend to be true, and which the Scientology member accepts and believes to be true (but isn't).

The trick is figuring out the ACTUAL INTENTIONS, which is nuts really, because NOBODY can figure out what others are "truly thinking". Hubbard RIGS the Doubt Formula. Best to ONLY look at ACTIVITIES and STATS. In that regard, no matter what Hubbard or Scientology intends, or claims, or promotes on endless PR lines, the raw result is that involvement with Scientology creates a bunch of babies who can't think for themselves, who live and breathe on "references", who come to exist in an oppresive environment of constant control, who contribute to hurting innocent people in the name of their "religion", and who are WASTED (thrown away) once their usefulness has faded.

The big cognition of a properly done Doubt Formula is that the intentions and stats of Scientology are all phony, contrived and basically a lie. As is Hubbard in what he says about himself and many other things.
 
I think it is fear that motivates them to say how wonderful the tech is, how Ron _____ (fill in the blank). Fear of eternal loss of their spiritual freedom. Somehow, a new, kinder, gentler Scientology will arise form the ashes of David's firestorm. And if they avow themselves true to LRH and the tech, but not the SP with the can of gasoline in one hand and a lit match in the other, they will be readmitted into Scientology 2.0 and will be allowed to pick up where they left off on their bridges.

I think this because I felt that same fear when I was first declared. I think it is pretty damn deep seated, and in a dark corner of their minds, they hope it wasn't a waste to be a Scientologist, that there is a future, and the pendulum will swing the other way and all will be right with the world.

I see indies who refuse to confront the concept Ron was anything less than a genius and discovered the road to man's freedom. I guess they haven't confronted that fear either.

OR!

Marty has a Doubt Formula checksheet / format that he hands out: My name is____ My post was____ DM is a_____ and he violated policy____ and Ron is _____. It begins to sound like reading (no insult intended) the Islamic style of writing:
Ron, may His Glorious name live for ever, who's Glorious Churches have been defiled by the evil spawn of the devil, COB, who shall live in hell forever, bla bla bla

Mimsey
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Marty has a Doubt Formula checksheet / format that he hands out: My name is____ My post was____ DM is a_____ and he violated policy____ and Ron is _____. It begins to sound like reading (no insult intended) the Islamic style of writing:

Ron, may his name live for ever, who's Glorious churches have been defiled by the evil spawn of the devil, COB, who shall live in hell forever, bla bla bla
Mimsey

:hysterical: :thumbsup:

Yeah, in Martyland there is a "Doubt Formula Routing Form"! :biggrin:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
All of this about what sticks these ex-Church members is covered in my essay "The Three Basic Scientology Beliefs".

This Scientology Belief Triangle (SBT) can be expressed as:

1) Your life, everyone's life, the world and the entire universe will fail for all eternity unless you succeed with Scientology. You will endure eternal pain and suffering, and even eventual extinction as a spiritual being UNLESS Scientology succeeds.

2) Scientology has the ONLY correct understanding of life, and the ONLY effective methods able to address and handle life. Scientology is the ONLY subject and activity capable of reversing the pain and suffering described in Belief One. ONLY Scientology possesses an effective Path to Salvation (Scientology's “Road to Freedom”, “The Bridge”).

3) L. Ron Hubbard, the author and creator of Scientology, is incapable of error. Everything he says about anything perfectly describes that reality and the related situations. It is only necessary to understand what he says and to do it. To do otherwise is to interfere with the Path to Salvation (Scientology's “Road to Freedom”) mentioned in Belief Two, and works to ensure the pain and suffering described in Belief One.


Until a person starts to break apart THAT trinity of quite arbitrary and unwarranted beliefs, he or she will remain on Marty's side of the fence. He or she will continue to be duped. He or she will choose to remain a SUCKER!

If you read any of these Doubt Formulas and examine them against the above three beliefs, these three beliefs are what still hold them in their stuck viewpoint. This stuck viewpoint allows them only ONE WAY to do the Doubt Formula. These CONSIDERATIONS are, how shall I say it, "basic on the chain" of continued entrapment within the Scientology paradigm. Until one dissolves and jettisons THESE beliefs (aka "as-is"), one is caught in the trap.

Ah, but one wants so much to BELIEVE!

A person cannot continue to be a Scio-Dummy if he or she no longer harbors these beliefs. They are the foundation upon which the Scientology scam sits.

One cannot be a Scientologist if one disagrees with these three beliefs. So of course, Hubbard, the Church of Scientology, and people like Marty work HARD to fan the flames of these key beliefs. In Scientology, none of the adherents actually admit or know that they "believe", and instead, they claim to be "certain" of these things. They KNOW! :hysterical:

They are True Believers. And, until they STOP being a True Believer, they will remain caught in this web of deception. They don't even need to recognize this in themselves, that they are each a "true believer" whose belief parades about as "certainty", though it helps in the long run. They need to just STOP believin'.
 
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Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am really glad to see this writeup, and to find out that it is broadly disseminated. Still ins will listen to someone like this, but they would never listen to an SP critic no matter what we said. So it is brilliant that so many are doing this. :clap:

With the couple that left (this thread) the number is probably down to 19,998.

The IAS MEMBERSHIP LIST is probably more confidential at this point than the OT III and OT VIII materials.

I wonder if they take all the members off the list when they leave Scientology. I never bought an IAS membership of any kind. I absolutely refused as they tried to cancel my HASI lifetime membership a week after I bought it. I was absolutely incensed. But then when I was in the SO I was simply presented with a lifetime membership card. Apparently they were regging public to pay for memberships for SO members. I don't know if this membership is still listed or not. Poor public being ripped off paying for lifetime memberships for SO who then leave and another "lifetime" membership cancelled. :eyeroll:

Per the latest census in Australia, we've only managed to knock off a little over 300 out of 2500 since 2007. So one in eight Scientologists have decided to look for themselves.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Marty is like a beginner's bike with training wheels.

In the Indie world it is a crime to take them off. So unless they break the Indie scripture, they never will learn how balance and steer and ride a bike on their own power, normally.

Fully grown adults with training wheels is pretty embarrassing actually.


Fact remains, that when people want to know about those who've just left the cult and who are announcing it (and since those folks are newly out, they tend to think they might want to stick with Scn as an ology. Many of them later change their minds but not right away.) they find out from Marty's blog.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
There are lots of Exes that do the same thing. Marty is not entitled to any kind of special recognition.

I didn't say "special recognition".

However, he does get the word out farther and more often than some folks. And some folks do as well as he does or even better.

And so it goes.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
..

Well, silly me, I read these doubt formulae and often chase up the tech references to see what else is mentioned in them. My conclusion is that Scientologists moving away from the cult cherry pick not only the actual references but also statements from within them. One example from these most recent formulae is the reference to the lecture "A Summary of Study". There are any number of illogical and patently false statements within the lecture, not the least of them being:

. . . There’s guys like Einstein. He sat around and did a wonderful—he had a total doingness that was of significance. He figured and figured and figured and figured and figured and he figured everybody into a hole. But he sure stimulated guys. More mathematicians were made trying to understand Einstein than any other single man that ever worked. The joke of it is, there might be nothing in his work at all. It’s sort of idiotic to say that—somebody comes along and tells you that the speed of light is ‘c’, and it’s never any different.

What’s he talking about? What light? Well, now, I don’t even think he says it’s the light between 3,600 angstroms and 5,600 angstroms. I don’t think he got that definite. He just said, “The speed of light.” Well, that’s great. Does he mean light as we normally see light? Well, light, in actual fact is simply the light vibration that you see, don’t you see? By definition, that’s light. Well, then he must have meant that light, visible light. Well, great. I’m glad he did because when it goes through a prism, it no longer travels at ‘c’ . . .

And that comes from the man who claimed to be one of only two people at George Washington University who fully understood E=mc². If L Ron Hubbard can state such nonsense in one part of this lecture, it hardly credits any other part with additional veracity.

Also applicable, and as all good students of the University of Hoaxology know, is the L Ron Hubbard Law of Commotion which applies in every instance - i.e., for every tech reference in every doubt formula there is an equal and opposite piece of tech which is not referenced. This observation seems to indicate that a decision to leave the cult has already been made and so it becomes a matter of justification. The problem for people who have been in the cult for decades is that the only tool they have available for the justification process is the tech itself and, thus, the cherry picking.

What's absent, of course, is the metaperspective afforded by moving away from the pernicious "L Ron Hubbard says . . . " trap. Such a metaperspective will show that the entire lecture referenced is designed to steer Scientologists away from considering the fact that L Ron Hubbard's work lacks any academic quality and anyone who wishes to apply any academic consideration to it is PTS to what he erroneously defines as "education". A wider metaperspective on the tech itself will provide an even greater realisation. Even Marty, if he can be taken at face value, is perceiving a glimmer of that wider realisation as evidenced by his recent blog on the fraudulent aspects of KSW Standard L Ron Hubbard Scientology. Alas, the process is frustratingly slow. Its a bit like watching someone put together a jigsaw puzzle using the wrong box lid and starting with the middle bits.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
With the couple that left (this thread) the number is probably down to 19,998.

The IAS MEMBERSHIP LIST is probably more confidential at this point than the OT III and OT VIII materials.

The last membership list that was published had exes and declared SP's on it, as I remember. Now that the defections are getting louder and spammier, I bet the Co$ will have to ditch that false stat too.

How delicious is that caek? The only expansions I'm seeing have to do with the volume and (unfortunately) length of these defector emails. And for once, the expansion is much more rapid than 5.4x.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Einstein's work was never particularly challenging to mathematicians, though I expect his General theory of relativity must have stimulated extra interest in Riemannian geometry.

Hubbard doesn't quite get the wavelength range of visible light; it's about 3900 to 7500 Angstrom units (390 to 750 nanometers).

He's right in saying that visible light travels more slowly through a prism — that is, through glass. That's why lenses work. I think this may be the first correct statement about physics that I've found Hubbard making.

But Hubbard must have been quite ignorant of physics to have wondered at all about which wavelengths Einstein meant by the term 'light'. The issue is the one universal speed at which electromagnetic waves, of any and all wavelengths, spread through vacuum. The understanding that this fundamental speed is universal and unique was the crown jewel of 19th century physics. It's part of the electrodynamics of Clark Maxwell. Einstein's contribution in his theories of relativity was to bring all the rest of physics into line with Maxwell's electrodynamics.

Kids studying physics today still get T-shirts and coffee mugs with Maxwell's equations on them. They're great. And Maxwell was quite a cool guy. He dropped cats, to find out how they manage to land on their feet. He did lasting fundamental work in thermodynamics as well as electrodynamics. He figured out what Saturn's rings really are. He wrote a song about rigid body dynamics. By all accounts he was a fun guy to be around. Unfortunately he died rather young, or he might well have become even more famous than he actually is. As it is, he's clearly the third greatest physicist of all time, with Newton and Einstein fighting over the top two slots.
 
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