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Current CofS vs Hubbard's CofS

Peter Soderqvist

Patron with Honors
Soderqvist1: Veda, your last message doesn’t add anything of substance. I have only answered you question, but obviously you don’t like the answer!

"communication lines cut," etc. Just why Hubbard couldn't simply pick up a phone and talk to the Mission Holders, and others, and find out what's what is never explained. Was David Miscavige keeping Hubbard locked in a room? Was Hubbard strapped to a chair with duct tape?
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=306863&postcount=17
 

Veda

Sponsor
Hubbard didn't trust anyone, routinely lied to and manipulated Scientologists, was frightened of being subpoenaed, and wanted the money for his monument building projects - so what else is new? Oh that's right, Marty Rathbun is organizing a new group of "we stand tall" Scientologists. This requires the rehabilitation of "Ron's image" and the "image" of Scientology. Here we go again.

Soderqvist1: Veda, your last message doesn’t add anything of substance. I have only answered you question, but obviously you don’t like the answer!

I haven't asked you any questions.

If you want to march in L. Ron's parade then go right ahead. :p
 

Peter Soderqvist

Patron with Honors
I haven't asked you any questions.

If you want to march in L. Ron's parade then go right ahead. :p

Soderqvist1: No, but I need to be fair and objective in order to be credible. I have posted this message at Clambake org. regarding the Think-Tankers!

Soderqvist1: I like Scientology!
I have really got a piece of bread to satisfy my spiritual needs, what you and other have described more or less correct here is a hook, I hate the hook, but I love the bread, so we have a problem with a Bait and Switch Racket. Let the Revisionist have their little half-truth because I think that is the right way to go about in order to make things better. When David Miscavige is removed from power by the Revisionists, our troops will move forward and let them face the whole truth, and the truth will set them free!
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=366205#366205

True thyself, and the truth will set you free!
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
This thread represents a rare occurance.

Just a comment as an observer and participant who is an outsider -

Most message board threads, talk radio calls, cable news interviews, etc. just degenerate into name calling, bashing sessions between opposing viewpoints. Almost never is any valid data presented or analysis done to come up with a consensus of what has been achieved when all the name calling is over. Almost no one ever changes their opinion or admits they were wrong. It is primarily a low form of entertainment leading to a dead end.

On this thread, I believe the question on which the thread was based has been thoroughly answered and valid new (new to some of us) information has been presented which has opened the door to new speculations about topics senior to that on which the thread was started. This is a real achievement of magnitude!
Lkwdblds

P.S. - Just a meaningless piece of trivia. I actually knew Sherman Lenske at U.C.L.A. way back in 1959 and 1960. He was in a fraternity there which I pledged. Coincidently, he was a short man in stature, maybe 5"5" tall which is probably about the same height as DM.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Type 4 - I had similar questions to what you are asking above. I can think of two possible answers that have some plausibility.

First, there is a Hubbard precident for killing off the geese who laid the Golden Eggs. Going back to the 1960's Hubbard had no problem busitng and off loading many of his top and most dedicated people. John Mac Masters, the first Clear was busted, Otto Roos, Class XII had his Certs pulled and was kicked out, Nibs Hubbard was not paid enough to raise his family and he left, many Class XII's such as Alex Siberski and Ron Shaffron were off loaded, even David Mayo, the top tech terminal on the planet for years was unceremoniously dumped while Hubbard allowed Mary Sue to go to prison for him and he ultimately disconnected from her. He would never consent to having a Number 2 Man or Woman share the limelight with him and if somebody got too popular or too big a name with the public he would see to it that they were either quickly cut down to size and humbled or off loaded.

The other point may be that Hubbard's priorities changed as he got older and suffured more set backs to his various goals. He hoped to be embraced by mankind, the scientific community and world governments and instead he was scorned and made persona non grata by most governments. His tech was not accepted by the intelligencia, he could never find a home on Earth where he could call the shots, such as a Scientology country to be based in which he sought.

His original goal of blazing his name permanently into world history may have resurfaced as his predominant goal during his last years. He may have felt that the world in general was not worthy of him or his tech and that staffs and Orgs were not as effective as he had thought they would be after they did upper level training and processing and since they were not able to carry him to the high place in history which he sought, they deserved nothing from him at the end of his life.

If this is the way he began to see things as he aged, it is easy to see him bringing down the Mission network to get some quick cash in a last ditch effort to emblazon his name into the history books even though it reduced C of S's income and expansion potentials for the future, after he was gone. This is very consistent with the poor way he communicated to his public and staffs about his forthcoming body death and the poor way he made almost no provision as to who would be his the successors for his many hats though he had written extensive policies about passing on one's hats when leaving a post.
Lkwdblds

Hey Lkwdblds,
Thank-You for those thoughts............you definitely raised some good points. Hubbard was definitely a complicated man with seeming multiple personalities and definitely his attitudes changed in the later years.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Polar Opposites

Hubbard had two counter-opposing valences which were polar opposites.

These were there in the early fifties showing up as the negative one when

under stress. This one never resolved, but could have been if Otto Roos had

had his way, I believe, and was able to audit him on his rockslam reads.

LRH became Very Serious on that occasion. "Serious = Mass". >LRH

He created a lot of valuable tech, but in the end destroyed much of

that creation.

He never handled his serious paranoia and instead of out-creating his enemies

succumbed to them by running away from 1967 for 20 years until he died.


I've done 3 years of internet research and was reluctant to believe some

things about Hubbard, particularly the drug use, but finally saw the light

when four or more viewpoints close to him kept producing the same info.

His life is now an open book. Those in comm with him probably still don't have

the courage to bring up these things. LRH should come back and borrow a

body and take it to a good FZ auditor and get handled. I'm not kidding.

After that statement, I'll be hiding out in my cave for the next two weeks.:whistling:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Good Post

Hubbard had two counter-opposing valences which were polar opposites.

These were there in the early fifties showing up as the negative one when

under stress. This one never resolved, but could have been if Otto Roos had

had his way, I believe, and was able to audit him on his rockslam reads.

LRH became Very Serious on that occasion. "Serious = Mass". >LRH

He created a lot of valuable tech, but in the end destroyed much of

that creation.

He never handled his serious paranoia and instead of out-creating his enemies

succumbed to them by running away from 1967 for 20 years until he died.


I've done 3 years of internet research and was reluctant to believe some

things about Hubbard, particularly the drug use, but finally saw the light

when four or more viewpoints close to him kept producing the same info.

His life is now an open book. Those in comm with him probably still don't have

the courage to bring up these things. LRH should come back and borrow a

body and take it to a good FZ auditor and get handled. I'm not kidding.

After that statement, I'll be hiding out in my cave for the next two weeks.:whistling:

Blue Spirit - Good post, well stated points. Yes, I believe that the point where he rejected Otto Roos's offer to apply Class XII tech to clean up his Rock Slams, out lists and over runs was a key moment in C of S history. Had Hubbard allowed Otto Roos to go ahead with this auditing program for him, C of S may have ended up a lot different than it did, a lot more sane.

I duly note Zinjifar's comment that one would have to assume auditing has workability for Roos's program to have been able to clear up Hubbard's case. For me, I have had wrong items indicated to me and run on me and I have had processes run on me past the end phenomena and these actions always gummed up my tone arm and needle and when a repair list was run to straighten out the auditing errors, it always totally handled and cleared up the upset very quickly 100% of the time. I am totally convinced based on my own experiences as both an auditor and a pc that auditing procedures can and do quickly repair auditing errors and this is all that would have been required of Hubbard's auditing for it to give him great relief mentally.

Also, you put it well saying that Hubbard was in hiding from his enemies for nearly the last 20 years of his life. In all fairness to Hubbard, I can see his not wanting to continually have to defend himself in courts and a case can be made for him hiding out instead and developing more tech, making more movies and writing a large amount of science fiction in his last years. The thing is that he brought on the threat of being dragged into court by hiding vast sums of income from the governments and not paying taxes on it.
Lkwdblds
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I duly note Zinjifar's comment that one would have to assume auditing has workability for Roos's program to have been able to clear up Hubbard's case.

Maybe you read something I didn't say :) My point was that there's no such thing as a 'Hubbard Case' because the whole concept of 'Case' is a well planned booby trap.

Zinj
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Sorry about mis quoting you.

Maybe you read something I didn't say :) My point was that there's no such thing as a 'Hubbard Case' because the whole concept of 'Case' is a well planned booby trap.

Zinj

Sorry for misquoting you. The concepts of "case" being bogus or whether or not auditing has workability are separate concepts. In either of those two scenarios, however, Hubbard's refusal to accept Roos's auditing correction program would not have mattered at all as to how the future of Scientology unfolded after Roos's offer to clean up Hubbard's auditing errors was rejected.
Lkwdblds
 
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