Dating a Scientologist - I Have Questions

[Sindy]

WOG3232,

Okay, I wasn't going to post on this thread as I am trying not to spend so much time commenting about Scientology right now while I focus on a project, however, your story is intriguing and I do have something to add though it may not be at all helpful. Who knows. It's just another angle.

First off, it sounds like you have made up your mind and broken things off. That sounds like a really good thing so I am not trying to convince you otherwise. I am just offering another side of the involved psychological puzzle that accompanies any person in a cult.

I will always contend that deep down, the person in a cult knows they are trapped in a cult even while spouting all its benefits. So, the person will do certain things to keep the door open to sanity so as not to get too involved and completely engulfed and assimilated by the Borg, so to speak. He/she will do this unconsciously but still very much deliberately.

In the case of a Scientologist, one of those coping mechanisms can be to start and maintain a relationship with a non-Scientologist.

For example, I knew I should start a relationship with a Scientologist but instead I got involved with a non-Scientologist. I had a whole, very weird double personality thing going on that was really quite insane. I would argue the merits of Scientology with him while at the same time revel in his non-Scientological viewpoint.

I was unwittingly trying to keep myself balanced and still "there". The only way I could get away with this was to occasionally work to recruit him into the fold so it appeared that I was somehow the victim of being in a relationship with a "wog" (sorry, hate that word) who just didn't get it, despite my best dissemination efforts.

Psycho stuff? Yes but all meticulously explained away and sewed up nice and tidy.

In the end, that relationship of mine didn't work (though we were together for 13 years) because of the pressure -- I couldn't straddle the fence any longer and had to choose a side. Scientology was not the only thing wrong with our relationship and what I am about to say may not be true. I'm not sure.

If he would have used good communication and laid out, step by step, why I should have gotten out, what he found out on the Internet, what books he had read, I may have left at that time. I was always a bit wishy washy about it, however if you had asked him if he felt I was uncertain about it he would have said, "no way", but he never tried to get me out in any planned and organized attempt, only by way of critical or snide remarks which only matched and verified Hubbard's tech on how a critic would act and why I shouldn't listen to that person. He never tried.

No one ever tried. Everyone walked on eggshells. I actually don't think it would have been that hard to get me out. It certainly would have taken a superman's amount of patience and skill though and really, I don't think that was his responsibility, ultimately.

I do know this for a fact: If I was completely convinced of Scientology, the lifestyle, the organization, etc., I would never have gotten or stayed in a long term relationship with a non-Scientologist. Why would I?

My guess (but what the hell do I really know) is that she likes the idea of self improvement and the feelings of accomplishment, happiness and self worth that this brings more than she loves Scn and the organization. There are other ways to achieve what she's going for but if she perceives that staying with you means giving that up, well, that's a rough choice.

 

[WOG3232]

WOG3232,

Okay, I wasn't going to post on this thread as I am trying not to spend so much time commenting about Scientology right now while I focus on a project, however, your story is intriguing and I do have something to add though it may not be at all helpful. Who knows. It's just another angle.

First off, it sounds like you have made up your mind and broken things off. That sounds like a really good thing so I am not trying to convince you otherwise. I am just offering another side of the involved psychological puzzle that accompanies any person in a cult.

I will always contend that deep down, the person in a cult knows they are trapped in a cult even while spouting all its benefits. So, the person will do certain things to keep the door open to sanity so as not to get too involved and completely engulfed and assimilated by the Borg, so to speak. He/she will do this unconsciously but still very much deliberately.

In the case of a Scientologist, one of those coping mechanisms can be to start and maintain a relationship with a non-Scientologist.

For example, I knew I should start a relationship with a Scientologist but instead I got involved with a non-Scientologist. I had a whole, very weird double personality thing going on that was really quite insane. I would argue the merits of Scientology with him while at the same time revel in his non-Scientological viewpoint.

I was unwittingly trying to keep myself balanced and still "there". The only way I could get away with this was to occasionally work to recruit him into the fold so it appeared that I was somehow the victim of being in a relationship with a "wog" (sorry, hate that word) who just didn't get it, despite my best dissemination efforts.

Psycho stuff? Yes but all meticulously explained away and sewed up nice and tidy.

In the end, that relationship of mine didn't work (though we were together for 13 years) because of the pressure -- I couldn't straddle the fence any longer and had to choose a side. Scientology was not the only thing wrong with our relationship and what I am about to say may not be true. I'm not sure.

If he would have used good communication and laid out, step by step, why I should have gotten out, what he found out on the Internet, what book he had read, I may have left at that time. I was always a bit wishy washy about it, however if you had asked him if he felt I was uncertain about it he would have said, "no way", but he never tried to get me out in any planned and organized attempt, only by way of critical or snide remarks which only matched and verified Hubbard's tech on how a critic would act and why I shouldn't listen to that person. He never tried.

No one ever tried. Everyone walked on eggshells. I actually don't think it would have been that hard to get me out. It certainly would have taken a superman's amount of patience and skill though and really, I don't think that was his responsibility, ultimately.

I do know this for a fact: If I was completely convinced of Scientology, the lifestyle, the organization, etc., I would never have gotten or stayed in a long term relationship with a non-Scientologist. Why would I?

My guess (but what the hell do I really know) is that she likes the idea of self improvement and the feelings of accomplishment, happiness and self worth that this brings more than she loves Scn and the organization. There are other ways to achieve what she's going for but if she perceives that staying with you means giving that up, well, that's a rough choice.

Sindy - Thanks so much for the perspective. Some of your post actually rings true. There are however some crucial bits of information you need to know. I did try on several occasions to present my viewpoints in a calm, fact-based manner. I shared the results of my research (good and the bad). I was even successful in getting her to start reading Lawrence Wright's book "Going Clear". I left the book with her (perhaps one day she'll read it with an objective mind). She was very defensive and it typically escallated to screaming (on both sides unfortunately). It's not my job (or anyone elses) to tell someone what they should believe in or not believe in. I can only control what I "choose" to believe and the type of people I want to bring into my life and the life of my children/family. I've said this in earlier posts - I'm in my early 40's, I'm not interested in fixing anyone or deprogramming a cultist at this point in my life. You are absolutely right in saying there are other, much better (safer) alternatives to obtaining "self improvement and the feelings of accomplishment, happiness and self worth. I hope my e"ex"girlfriend finds them. This response might sound cold and some might even say I didn't really love her if I wasn't willing to put in the time/effort to "save" her. I would say this to those people. Keep in mind I mentioned that she was very defensive about this topic and she was starting to get her children started on courses as well. If I had tried any more than I did to get her out I risked damaging the relationship she has with her kids. They (the kids) might then also start to turn on me for trying to convince their mother that she was doing something bad to them. This was a no-win situation for us. In the end I still love her and wish things were different, sadly they are what they are and I needed to move on.

 

[Sindy]

Sindy - Thanks so much for the perspective. Some of your post actually rings true. There are however some crucial bits of information you need to know. I did try on several occasions to present my viewpoints in a calm, fact-based manner. I shared the results of my research (good and the bad). I was even successful in getting her to start reading Lawrence Wright's book "Going Clear". I left the book with her (perhaps one day she'll read it with an objective mind). She was very defensive and it typically escallated to screaming (on both sides unfortunately). It's not my job (or anyone elses) to tell someone what they should believe in or not believe in. I can only control what I "choose" to believe and the type of people I want to bring into my life and the life of my children/family. I've said this in earlier posts - I'm in my early 40's, I'm not interested in fixing anyone or deprogramming a cultist at this point in my life. You are absolutely right in saying there are other, much better (safer) alternatives to obtaining "self improvement and the feelings of accomplishment, happiness and self worth. I hope my e"ex"girlfriend finds them. This response might sound cold and some might even say I didn't really love her if I wasn't willing to put in the time/effort to "save" her. I would say this to those people. Keep in mind I mentioned that she was very defensive about this topic and she was starting to get her children started on courses as well. If I had tried any more than I did to get her out I risked damaging the relationship she has with her kids. They (the kids) might then also start to turn on me for trying to convince their mother that she was doing something bad to them. This was a no-win situation for us. In the end I still love her and wish things were different, sadly they are what they are and I needed to move on.

Absolutely. I am actually quite impressed with the way you have addressed this situation. I completely understand and like I said at the beginning, I am not trying to convince you otherwise. I suppose I am merely telling you this so that, if possible, I might offer an even more well rounded view of what you may be observing and possibly it could help you as you move on and start anew.

I wish you all the best and thank you very much for coming here and telling your story. There are lots of people who read this board. It will help others and I hope it helped you.

 

[Leland]

WOG3232,

Okay, I wasn't going to post on this thread as I am trying not to spend so much time commenting about Scientology right now while I focus on a project, however, your story is intriguing and I do have something to add though it may not be at all helpful. Who knows. It's just another angle.

First off, it sounds like you have made up your mind and broken things off. That sounds like a really good thing so I am not trying to convince you otherwise. I am just offering another side of the involved psychological puzzle that accompanies any person in a cult.

I will always contend that deep down, the person in a cult knows they are trapped in a cult even while spouting all its benefits. So, the person will do certain things to keep the door open to sanity so as not to get too involved and completely engulfed and assimilated by the Borg, so to speak. He/she will do this unconsciously but still very much deliberately.

In the case of a Scientologist, one of those coping mechanisms can be to start and maintain a relationship with a non-Scientologist.

For example, I knew I should start a relationship with a Scientologist but instead I got involved with a non-Scientologist. I had a whole, very weird double personality thing going on that was really quite insane. I would argue the merits of Scientology with him while at the same time revel in his non-Scientological viewpoint.

I was unwittingly trying to keep myself balanced and still "there". The only way I could get away with this was to occasionally work to recruit him into the fold so it appeared that I was somehow the victim of being in a relationship with a "wog" (sorry, hate that word) who just didn't get it, despite my best dissemination efforts.

Psycho stuff? Yes but all meticulously explained away and sewed up nice and tidy.

In the end, that relationship of mine didn't work (though we were together for 13 years) because of the pressure -- I couldn't straddle the fence any longer and had to choose a side. Scientology was not the only thing wrong with our relationship and what I am about to say may not be true. I'm not sure.

If he would have used good communication and laid out, step by step, why I should have gotten out, what he found out on the Internet, what books he had read, I may have left at that time. I was always a bit wishy washy about it, however if you had asked him if he felt I was uncertain about it he would have said, "no way", but he never tried to get me out in any planned and organized attempt, only by way of critical or snide remarks which only matched and verified Hubbard's tech on how a critic would act and why I shouldn't listen to that person. He never tried.

No one ever tried. Everyone walked on eggshells. I actually don't think it would have been that hard to get me out. It certainly would have taken a superman's amount of patience and skill though and really, I don't think that was his responsibility, ultimately.

I do know this for a fact: If I was completely convinced of Scientology, the lifestyle, the organization, etc., I would never have gotten or stayed in a long term relationship with a non-Scientologist. Why would I?

My guess (but what the hell do I really know) is that she likes the idea of self improvement and the feelings of accomplishment, happiness and self worth that this brings more than she loves Scn and the organization. There are other ways to achieve what she's going for but if she perceives that staying with you means giving that up, well, that's a rough choice.

Very interesting Sindy. Most of my relationships during my 27 years in the Cult....were with non-scientologists.

I was thinking about the very thing you posted about above last night.....very insightful IMO.

 

[Sindy]

Very interesting Sindy. Most of my relationships during my 27 years in the Cult....were with non-scientologists.

I was thinking about the very thing you posted about above last night.....very insightful IMO.

Thank you though I didn't realize all this until I left. That's the tricky part -- trying to get a person to twig on what they will be realizing later, sooner.

 

[WOG3232]

Very interesting Sindy. Most of my relationships during my 27 years in the Cult....were with non-scientologists.

I was thinking about the very thing you posted about above last night.....very insightful IMO.

Leland & Sindy - THese last two posts were extremely helpful.

Sindy - Please don't think I was not appreciative of your post. Quite the opposite. These were things I had not even considered. In the end my decision would have been the same but this helps tremendously.

 

[Sindy]

Leland & Sindy - THese last two posts were extremely helpful.

Sindy - Please don't think I was not appreciative of your post. Quite the opposite. These were things I had not even considered. In the end my decision would have been the same but this helps tremendously.

Well, that makes me happy. Thanks.

 

[WOG3232]

To All - This has been a very cathartic experience and its turning out to be part of a healing process for me. I find the more I share and learn on this thread the more it helps. In times of great stress knowledge can be of great comfort . In this case you are all helping me to see all sides and to understand the potential challenges I would have been facing.

 

[Sindy]

To All - This has been a very cathartic experience and its turning out to be part of a healing process for me. I find the more I share and learn on this thread the more it helps. In times of great stress knowledge can be of great comfort . In this case you are all helping me to see all sides and to understand the potential challenges I would have been facing.

Do well. Who knows all the ways in which this whole experience will help you (and others) in the future. I will say that you most likely dodged a huge bullet. Who could blame you for picking up that hat -- that got blown off your head -- and moving on down the road. Damn.

Best to you.

 

[Intentionally Blank]

WOG3232,

Okay, I wasn't going to post on this thread as I am trying not to spend so much time commenting about Scientology right now while I focus on a project, however, your story is intriguing and I do have something to add though it may not be at all helpful. Who knows. It's just another angle.

<snip>

My guess (but what the hell do I really know) is that she likes the idea of self improvement and the feelings of accomplishment, happiness and self worth that this brings more than she loves Scn and the organization. There are other ways to achieve what she's going for but if she perceives that staying with you means giving that up, well, that's a rough choice.

Thank you for that, Sindy. You have no idea how helpful it was to read and how much it resonates with my situation. I needed that boost today

Blanky

 

[Enthetan]

To All - This has been a very cathartic experience and its turning out to be part of a healing process for me. I find the more I share and learn on this thread the more it helps. In times of great stress knowledge can be of great comfort . In this case you are all helping me to see all sides and to understand the potential challenges I would have been facing.

We all hope you find happiness.

This thread possibly may continue for a while, not so much covering your particular situation, but as a conversation on Scn/non-Scn relationships. It's what tends to happen to threads around here.

 

[Intentionally Blank]

Which will help others in similar situations.

It's funny, as this thread was unfolding, a friend of ours who is not a scientologist, met a scilon from the local org. They hit it off and the next thing I know the friend is calling me to get the scilon's contact info. *sigh* Now there's a rock and a hard place. I was debating how to procrastinate, refuse, or somehow not encourage them when the friend texted me to say they'd met for dinner and the scn was not his type.

Blanky

 

[Gizmo]

Which will help others in similar situations.

It's funny, as this thread was unfolding, a friend of ours who is not a scientologist, met a scilon from the local org. They hit it off and the next thing I know the friend is calling me to get the scilon's contact info. *sigh* Now there's a rock and a hard place. I was debating how to procrastinate, refuse, or somehow not encourage them when the friend texted me to say they'd met for dinner and the scn was not his type.

Blanky

Yeah, I got guy friends who are married to a woman I can't believe they could be with - but are so in love with one another & happy.

Likewise with gal friends who married a guy I consider nuts but they are in love & happy.

They are happy. That matters. My thoughts about it need to stay my thoughts as in mind my own business.

My still in scn friends ? I keep my mouth shut & respect their choice to follow what they think best for them as I try to do for myself ( way, way, way away scn ! ). Again I try to mind my own business.

This business of one scn & one not scn ( or particularly opposed to scn ? ) in my experience I've not seen work out at all.
Probably somewhere it has worked out for some, but, sort like going over Niagra Falls in a barrel - chances aren't promising.

These days I know having been once a scn'gist & knowing the belief system of it that it seems unlikely one not in it could be a full true partner in a loving relationship shared by one "in".

 

[Claire Swazey]

Terril - She's definitely not a "basic" CofS participant. WISE is just as (if not more) evil, twisted and corrupt as Narnacon, Applied Scholastic's and any of the of the other division that funnel $$ into the CofS. She literally manages and enforces the entire CofS doctrine side of her organization for 20 years. She has the tone scale on her wall, gets hourly reports from all locations about up/down-stats, up/down tone people in the office, etc. She spoke Scientologees on the phone (when she didn't 'think I could hear) to her office managers. Most (if not all) of her job entailed looking at stat reports and making sure everyone had "what they needed". I never fully understood all of it until very recently. She had that intense, "dead stare" I've been told about that Scilon's get after years within the cult. She owns tons of non "tech" or "administration" CofS books. She gets all of the CofS magazines (I found this out near the end of the relationship because she was hiding them, and throwing them away before I saw them). She kept everything for her work in the trunk of her car. Again, I didn't put it all together until recently. She even owns the laughable "All About Radiation" book and has other books by LRH all over the house (boxes and boxes of them), she even has some recent books from CofS on how to raise children. For her to leave she would need to quit and never talk to anyone at her job ever again. Her job is her life - so that is never going to happen. She's in deep and she's starting to pull her children into it as well.

The more I think about it, the more I know I did the right thing by breaking it off.

My impression was that Terrill was referring to her possibly being on The Basic Books and their courses
CofS had a bit of Bolshie revisionism where Hubbard's books were edited and rereleased by the cult and all members, regardless of degree of immersion, told to participate.

 

[Claire Swazey]

You're probably right. I was just wondering if she was tossing a number out there that might not reflect the entirety of the cost but just a portion so it wouldn't seem like it was all that much. So, "I only spent $200" without adding the "per hour for a thousand hours" part

I wonder why a 20 year member is doing basic courses, too. Aren't the $200 courses for newbies just off the street?

What if it's part of the Basic Books push?

And, as to the other, quite possible. I've used it when minimizing the cost of certain purchases to my husband.

 

[WOG3232]

What if it's part of the Basic Books push?

And, as to the other, quite possible. I've used it when minimizing the cost of certain purchases to my husband.

Claire - I "THINK" you might be on to something here. Like I said she never really opened up to me about Scientology. I think she got the idea that I was a WOG through-and-through from the beginning so she just decided to try to lead two separate lives. One where she was completely immersed in CofS and the other life she lived with me. To me it's insane that a grown adult would do that. If you're involved in something that you are not proud enough of to at least share it with the one you supposedly "love" then what the hell are you doing? She seemed to have enough money to live, but she was literally always looking for bargains on everything! I mean everything! She kept stacks and stacks of coupons, receipts, etc. and was almost like one of those extreme coupon people you see on TV. I always thought that was just "her thing", but looking back it might have been part of the way she saved money to pay for courses/books, etc. I'll never know and I really don't care anymore. Then again I might be over thinking all of this. Regardless, in the end it really didn't factor that much into my eventual decision to break it off with her.

It's been almost a week since we broke-up and I'm remembering things, certain behaviors, etc. that I would never have noticed unless I stepped out of the relationship and looked back on the past 3+ years.

1.) She definitely had a ton of CofS, WISE Tech, CD's, books, audio tapes, paperwork, charts and graphs, etc. crammed into the trunk of her car at all times.
2.) She was the main "person" that ran all of the CoS/Wise stuff and programs at her company.
3.) She told me that Thursday's were her "day off" which I always thought was weird. There was never any reason for it, but as I discovered in my research Thursday is the end of the week in CofS. Even though it was her "day off" she always seemed to have paperwork to do that day from home. This probably meant she was reporting "Stats" to CofS. Her boss is a long time CofS Silon and I know he gets some type of recognition every time he hires someone new onto his staff. Their entire program is based on Admin/Management Tech.
4.) She is heavily involved in all aspects of hiring new people into her offices (there are about 9 office all together)
5.) Her website has a direct link to MasterTechs' "PPA" "Personnel Potential Analysis". Questions include:

​

1. 
   [*=1]Could you agree to "strict discipline"?
   [*=1]Are you usually "up-to-date" on ever day affairs?
   [*=1]Can you confidently plan and work towards carrying out an event in 6 months time?
   [*=1]Do you enjoy activities of your own choosing?
   [*=1]Are you wary of people who ask to borrow money from you?
   [*=1]Do you "Turn up the volume" of your emotions just to create an effect?
   [*=1]Would you give up easily on a given course if it were causing you a considerable amount of inconvenience?
   [*=1]Do you often make tactless blunders?
   [*=1]Would it take definite effort on your part to consider quitting a long term relationship?
   [*=1]Would a disagreement affect your general relationship with another person?
   [*=1]When talking with others are you aware of
   habitual physical mannerisms such as pulling
   your hair, nose, ears or such like?
   [*=1]Do you ''wax enthusiastic'' about only
   a few projects?
   [*=1]Are you sometimes completely unable to
   enter the spirit of things?
   [*=1]Would you make the necessary actions to
   kill an animal in order to put it out of
   pain?
   [*=1]Are you rarely effusive?
   [*=1]Could someone else consider that you were
   really productive?
   [*=1]Are you embarrassed by a hearty greeting,
   if done in public?
   [*=1]Are you sometimes convinced of the
   correctness of your opinions about a
   subject even though you are not an expert?
   [*=1]Do you do much grumbling about
   conditions you have to face in life?

This last one was copied directly from the website. Bad grammar and all.
​

20. Do you consider you have many warm
​

friends?
​

Keep in mind there are 200 questions, I just pulled a few at random ones from the list. Also keep in mind this is a medical office and 80% of the staff are just front office administrative or nurse/assistance, etc. Her office has a very high rate of turn over. I would think these questions border on the bizarre for that type of company.

6.) One evening, we were playing an adult themed card game. The basic premise is this. A person draws a card with a partial phrase on it. for example the card might read: "The craziest thing in the world is _______". The other people playing the game will have 7 cards in their hand that have weird and random words printed on them. I did not know that one of those cards had the word "Scientology" on it. The woman sitting to my right had that card in her hand and showed it to me. I burst out laughing because it was the perfect card to complete that phrase, not to mention it made the statement 100% true (IMHO). My girlfriend leaned over and saw the card. She did not think it was funny AT ALL. It was a very quiet ride home that night.

There were many other behaviors, traits, etc. that I remember when I look back on our relationship. Individually none of them is really that big of a deal, but I have about 3 years worth of tiny memories that all add up.

 

[Enthetan]

5.) Her website has a direct link to MasterTechs' "PPA" "Personnel Potential Analysis". Questions include:


Keep in mind there are 200 questions, I just pulled a few at random ones from the list. Also keep in mind this is a medical office and 80% of the staff are just front office administrative or nurse/assistance, etc. Her office has a very high rate of turn over. I would think these questions border on the bizarre for that type of company.

I recognize the questions. They are from the Oxford Capacity Analysis used in Scientology. The routine is to have the person take the test, tell him "you are really screwed up in this area, but Scientology can help you with that", and get him to sign up for a service.

The high turnover is typical for a Scn company. Back when I had my company, I joined WISE and went to a WISE seminar, where I was told "most people pay their employees too much". I lost respect for the guy giving the seminar at that point. In my line of work, it takes a while to get the new person up to speed, during which they are not very productive. High turnover would kill me. Paying too low just means that you only get people who will work for you until some better job turns up. I let my WISE membership lapse.

An ulterior motive for high turnover in a WISE company could be that you got to evaluate a large number of people for susceptibility to becoming a Scientologist. Those who didn't want to become Scientologists would leave. Those who DID become Scientologists would likely be recruited by the org. Or at least that's my suspicion -- that a major purpose of a WISE company is to be a recruiting front for Scientology.

 

[WOG3232]

I recognize the questions. They are from the Oxford Capacity Analysis used in Scientology. The routine is to have the person take the test, tell him "you are really screwed up in this area, but Scientology can help you with that", and get him to sign up for a service.

The high turnover is typical for a Scn company. Back when I had my company, I joined WISE and went to a WISE seminar, where I was told "most people pay their employees too much". I lost respect for the guy giving the seminar at that point. In my line of work, it takes a while to get the new person up to speed, during which they are not very productive. High turnover would kill me. Paying too low just means that you only get people who will work for you until some better job turns up. I let my WISE membership lapse.

An ulterior motive for high turnover in a WISE company could be that you got to evaluate a large number of people for susceptibility to becoming a Scientologist. Those who didn't want to become Scientologists would leave. Those who DID become Scientologists would likely be recruited by the org. Or at least that's my suspicion -- that a major purpose of a WISE company is to be a recruiting front for Scientology.

Enthetan - 100% agree with your views and evaluation. I know for a fact that her offices were nothing more than a recruiting arm for CofS. I've actually talked to an ex-employee and she shared some horror stories about terrible work conditions, extremely low pay, an "assembly-line" style approach to patient care, running "stats" on outbound calls, mailers, and everything was about "producing" and making money above all else. Knowing my ex-girlfriend ran that entire program really make my skin crawl.

Luis Colon is the devil.

http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/l/luis-colon.html

This one is a bit long but parallels my ex-girlfriends work situation:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scient...n-miami-dentist-runs-up-patient-bills/1135436

 

[apple]

I have been reading this thread and WOG3232 I applaud your sane way of looking at things. Good luck to you. She missed out.

 

[WOG3232]

I have been reading this thread and WOG3232 I applaud your sane way of looking at things. Good luck to you. She missed out.

Thanks Apple. I won't lie, breaking up with her was very difficult. I loved her with all my heart. I do not want this post to reflect negatively on her in anyway. She is not a bad/weak person. Quite the opposite actually. She just got caught up in something 20 years ago without having any idea what it would eventually lead to and now weaved itself into all aspects of her life like a cancer. I just decided I can't be anywhere near that organization or anything having to do with it. I can tell you this, I will be researching each and everyone of the companies I patronize and most likely anyone I might start seeing in the future.