. . .
A few "best of" posts by David Mayo from my archives.
Commenting begins just after David had watched the recently
surfaced and posted
Shiona Fox-Ness video [YouTube link]
Yes, Veda. We were all naive. I was. You must have been too, if you were there, as were the all the others with happy smiles on their faces and looking so alive!
Yes, we were so naive. We thought we had "the tech".
We were naive about so much, especially me. I am still naive about many things. BUt ...
Was that all fake? No way. It was real. Real people, with real smiles.
Would I use the same techniques today? Not at all.
I have learned so much since then. From experience, from studying psychology --and believe it or not from studying basics of physics and maths. But by far the most I have learned has been from people. I listen to people. I empathize with people, I really like almost all of the people I have known. When I was a toddler I knew almost nothing. But I wanted to learn everything I could. I am not alone. I know so many people on this ESMB who also want to learn all they can, who want to be all they can be. You, perhaps above all, want that too.
Watching that [Shiona Fox-Ness] video again yesterday brought tears to my eyes. Not because I lost the AAC. Not because I was squashed. Not because I failed. No, it is because that venture showed what could be done, despite our "false data," despite our indoctrination, because we all wanted to help people.
And we did.
End of story.
Thank you Veda for helping me to see so much more than I had,
David
Believe me, I think it was harder for me to watch [the Shiona Fox-Ness video] than most anyone I know! Can you imagine the shame I felt knowing what I now know of the techniques then being used and who and why came up with them? The embarrassment I felt when I know I could have walked a different path had I gone on to university and become a research physicist? I read a book I had managed to borrow when I was 14 years of age by Moller, a Danish Professor of physics at Copenhagen university, on Einsteins General Theory of Relativity. Yet I abandoned that because ... I was naive and thought I could do more for mankind by joining this New Age group whose leader promised all.
But didn't almost everyone here? We dreamed the dream and woke with a headache. Let's move on.
David
Shiona Fox-Ness, now deceased, was a wonderful person in many ways. She was creative, she loved people, she loved life, she loved to help, in short she was one among the best people I have known. Ever.
David
Yes it was great but it was not enough. The worst of it is that we, too, carried on the promise of "higher states" that did not exist, could not be delivered, ever. To my eternal dismay, I believed in and perpetuated that falsity. How does one get over that? Never. What has been, has been. An indelible record in the annals of time.
David
I can't respond to Marty. He sure made sure of that!
David
Having experienced ill will and ill treatment from more than one religion during my life, I finally became utterly jaundiced against them. Of course there are evil belief systems but even for those belief systems that are not so negatively inclined, the harm happens when someone sets out to enforce their ideas, beliefs or opinions on other people.
Others have posted similarly enlightening comments on this thread, too and I thank them for their clarifications. I bow to your having "put the icing on the cake" for me,
David
I haven't been keeping up with all the threads and posts. I would like to say that I appreciate more than I can express the appreciation I feel toward all you wonderful people who have remembered me and who have wrtten kind things about me and about Julia.
After too many adversities one can feel, even become, downtrodden and IMHO can even become physically sick. Kindness is definately one of the great healers of both the soul and the body.
Thank you to all who have cared and who have cared to express their good will toward us!
With love, David Mayo
[re: body thetan question]
Yes. People sometimes find it easier not to look directly at what is [there] but instead use a via to look at or through. Unfortunately, the more one does this, the more of these "vias" there will appear to be. If you were paying for such a service you could part with a lot of $ and feel that that there is even more to handle than you started with. Does this ring a bell for anyone?
Before I take any questions, I would like to move this discussion over to a new thread which I will call Misconceptions.
David
Simply Emma. The person who made so much possible through the ESMB. Never lose sight of that, nor of what you have done and what you can and will do.
And if people are desperate to talk to their space cooties, or think that there are space cooties, that would bother me immensely. IT IS NOT WHAT I INTENDED nor what I expected. That is a misconception.
David M
I acknowledge that you are right in that I worked in a cult that was destructive in some ways but I don't agree that it was only destructive. It was also constructive in some ways. While it is true that I worked in it, it is not true that I 'helped create the cult ...' But tell me how you think I may have done that? and what you think I should have done?
I am willing to listen to what you have to say. And I may learn from it.
David
The point is that the old organization was promising heights that could not be delivered, taking money for them and disappointing people. We (you and I and many others) were not. Huge difference.
David
Despite not having read the blog/spot etc., I question the combination of words; 'Scientology Ethics Technology'. Is that not one of the greatest misnomers since time began? Methinks so.
David
Are you asserting that I am still a true believer – distinctly got that impression. If that is what you are doing you are mistaken.
David
My opinion, often if not always religions promise something they can't deliver in order to attract, and to keep, adherents.
David
So true. My attitude when I first got out was "Tech" good, management bad.
David
(“still couldn't get it”) Trying to get something when there is nothing to get! That's the problem.
David
Karen started this thread based on the premise that RTC was Miscavige's RTC as evidenced in the title of this thread. Would it not be more profitable to look at whether it was Misc's RTC or LRH's RTC that resulted in the deplorable matters Karen mentioned such as the situation with her and her son? Or the somewhat controversial, yet very on topic, incident of The President's Wife?
David
IMHO, whether man is a "spiritual being" is definitely worth thinking about but it is definitely not wise to come to any conclusion about. And disastrous to accept any one's assertions about.
PS See my Sig. for what I consider to be nearer to the truth on this subject.
David
Signature:
Religion is an insult to human dignity.
With or without it you would have
good people doing good things
and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things,
that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
Nobel Laureate in physics
The punch line: In my life long pursuit of what is it in belief systems or therapies that makes a person better or worse I have concluded that helpful (definitely non harmful) techniques and the empathy of the practitioner are paramount. I wish to emphasize, the empathy of the practitioner.
Goodbye and good luck,
David
Now here's something I will comment on.
I started windsurfing 10 years before Rin's pontifical pronouncement suggests, in about 1984. No payoff from any of the 3M's required. Just a love of nature (sailing among turtles, blue Flying Fish and sometimes a Tiger shark). This followed a recognition that exercise is an invaluable part of becoming/remaining healthy.
I also realized that three of the factors to a good life are: exercise, a healthy diet and reduction of stress. My wife and I practiced and promoted those with, dare I say, astounding results!
And a new life, not entangled in "knots" (wink, wink, say no more) began!
"Mr. Squirrel"
David
After I got out I took a psychology class which I enjoyed. And I've sometimes had dinner with a practicing psychiatrist. Among other things we discussed the power of empathy as a healing agent. It would be nice to spread that idea around more on ESMB.
Thank you for your kindness,
David
Since you asked:
1. No, I did not KR people, neither before I left, nor after I left. I loathed that and similar "Ethics" practices. Always did, always will.
2. I believe you do have a right to '...question you (Julie), Karen, David or anyone else.' Question away. And I will tell you what I think, wherever I can.
3. It does NOT seem to me that 'Caroline's post had the purpose of discrediting Karen.' Show me if you can (even PM me if you can't do it publicly). I have known Karen since the 1970s. I have known Caroline for a much shorter period of time and was impressed with how forthcoming and honest she was. In my opinion Caroline rates among these people I admire: Gerry, Veda, Arnie, Alanzo --and several others you wouldn't have heard of as they were before your time.
4. How many times have you had threats against your life? Who stood up for you then? Who would have turned you in in a flash to save their own arse?
David
Veda, I hold your posts in the highest of regard both as to their accuracy and your courage in posting them!
David
I don't agree that the human brain cannot imagine non-existence. I have. Including when my life has been threatened.
I agree that the human brain (usually) makes up stuff that is imaginary --when desperate to believe in a hereafter. I have done that, too.
Yes, this may be 'just pondering' but believing in past or future lives are both just pondering, too. My final conclusion is agnostic --I don't know but I lean (strongly) toward the belief that I have not had any past lives, nor will I have any future lives. I can now, reasonably happily, live with this for as long as do I live.
As far as I know, every religion (belief system) has asserted that if one behaves as they prescribe one will enjoy some form or after life but if one does not so conform one will suffer (in death? even if dead?). My opinion here is that any belief system is an attempt to control those it can latch onto.
My advice to myself and to anyone who thinks similarly, is to live life as best you can for yourself and for others --which I have found to make my life more enjoyable most of the time and despite adversities. As for the hereafter, if there is one, "come what may".
This may offend some but truth is better than fiction.
My best wishes,
David Mayo