David Miscavige is very intelligent and reads a LOT of books


dm needs money to save himself from being deposed.

and the lawyers involved.

they are working double time. to save face

the COS and hubbard has nothing to do with that,

but the hubbard image does. as that keeps the money coming in.

It's my understanding that the IAS covers lawyers and court costs. DM will make sure that Scientologists will be milked to cover these costs.

But in addition......

Now that the Supa Powa building is open and running, DM has a new project next door.....building the new LRH Hall. This money will be regged for the CoS/DM's gold stash.... And if this building does ever get built, then DM will have another piece of real estate in his/CoS's portfolio. I'm sure he thinks he's a genius for all of these donation scams that he doesn't have to pay back or give anything in exchange for. He can just keep it all....supposedly for the CoS? Yeh...sure.

And everyone having to redo the Purif, and whatever other things he requires them to redo will also have a percentage of those monies going into his coffers along with whatever else he is selling that Scientologists are willing to pay for.


True Ex-Scientologist
DM has yet to utter a single idea that I can agree with. That's quite an accomplishment.

DM intelligent? Well read? Really? Class IV at 12? Who was his word clearer/sup/intern sup/CS?

Perhaps if he'd give extemporaneous talks handling comments from an uncowering audience, I'd agree. But he let Tommy do that.

DM knows a lot about Scientology and how Scientologists in the SO respond to him. I suspect he understands a lot about Scientology organizations.

Has he completed the OEC or FEBC? Internships on either? Has he audited ANYONE from raw meat to Grade IV completion? Review auditing?

Has he completed any wog college courses? Even one? A correspondence course? How about a course in ethics that addresses the giants of classical eithics.

Has he written anything that isn't parroting LRH?

He speaks like someone who has lived entirely under the cloak of the SO with virtually NO understanding of the culture outside of the SO.

Apparently no humor, no compassion, no family values, and canned speeches??.

Sure, DM is a genius and LRH was a nuclear scientist.

DM projects a very unreal image to a non-Scientologist.

IMO, DM is on an extreme end of Narcissitic Personality Disorder (LRH was too).
One description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder


Patron Meritorious
Per what I've read Miscavige never completed high school and certainly never attended college. I presume the Koppel interview is as near to spontaneous as is available to the public. I thought he came off like a jerk in that interview. Humorless, narrow minded, fixated, and defensive. In his speeches he seems like a fast talking puppet. He uses the same hackneyed phrases appearance after appearance.

I read the only deposition he ever gave. He was cagey in it. But certainly not of outstanding intelligence. In my opinion.


Per what I've read Miscavige never completed high school and certainly never attended college. I presume the Koppel interview is as near to spontaneous as is available to the public. I thought he came off like a jerk in that interview. Humorless, narrow minded, fixated, and defensive. In his speeches he seems like a fast talking puppet. He uses the same hackneyed phrases appearance after appearance.

I read the only deposition he ever gave. He was cagey in it. But certainly not of outstanding intelligence. In my opinion.

Please provide a link to that deposition if you can....I'd like to read it. I'm doing some research.


Patron Meritorious
Reads many books. Not a big deal. If one reads books that does not make them smart maybe only well read. Beats up staff, enforces abortion policy, excommunication and the RPF is very stupid.

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
David Miscavige is very intelligent and reads a LOT of books.

I believe the following observation by Mike Rinder is important.

I will add my own -- "external," if you will -- observation. The overwhelming majority of religions, "new religious movements," and cults do not survive the death of their founder. The interesting thing is not that Scientology is collapsing. The interesting thing is that Scientology has survived so long.

I offer the above on the theory that it is best not to under-estimate one's enemy.


When I refer to the "enemy," I am referring to David Miscavige, and not Mike Rinder.

I always feel as if someone is trying to manipulate "public opinion" when I read something like this from Mike or Marty.

It matters not to most of us whether miscavige is (seen as) thick as a brick or not (and of course he isn't) ... but apparently it matters to Mike and Marty, and I can't imagine why ...


I've never met the kid, but what I've seen inhis live speeches and his videoed events I would call him smooth, clever, ambitions, and a bit of a bully. My sense is he doesn't write his own speeches (most people don't).

And his is certainly not civilized.

Per Will Durant a civilized person adds wisdom to knowledge, courtesy to culture, and forgiveness to understanding.

I don't think he is into understanding and appreciating others.

And especially not into forgiveness.

And the Scientology culture seems mere fascism.

Nor with his alleged knowledge does he show any wisdom, just cunning.

The Anabaptist Jacques


Silver Meritorious Patron
While I like Mike, he to was raised as a boy as a scientologist with little formal education. Idk what Rinder's definition of "a lot of books is" but the claim doesn't impress me in the least. DM could be burying his nose in Nancy Drew mysteries, or more Hubbard dreck - so reading alone doesn't mean much - what you read and understand does.

I would be curious to know how many is "lots" and examples of what types of books. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the impression DM wanted to give to his underlings, whatever the actual truth maybe. I would be curious what outside of Hubbard DM has bothered to read.

Formal education, or lack of, doesn't determine who is smart or not. However smart DM maybe I think his low cunning and willingness to be brutal and cruel has done far more for him in the CoS than his intelligence.

What makes DM appear stupid to us is his complete ignorance of the world outside the CoS bubble. Who thinks imitating Stalin type propaganda shows are a good idea, except those with little knowledge of history?

Most everything DM does is mocked as bizarre and absurd because he has no cultural education. He believes making it bigger, with more faux gold and his idea of what "expensive" looks like is impressive - whereas it is simply absurd and tacky. His idea of art and design, used in the ideal orgs and IAS shows, could be used in design text books as the "what not to do" chapter. It reveals a culturally ignorant little shit who believe money equals taste. The godawful Hermes shirt he wore in the "We stand Tall" video perfectly captures his thinking.

His idea of how the world works is equally brutal and backwards. The money has sheltered him from learning many lessons. Gobs of cult money has served to insulate him from the trouble his stupidity and ignorance has caused. But even the most expensive army of lawyers can't keep saving him from himself. A smart man would have learned from his stupidity but DM just keeps repeating the errors and hoping the money will continue to solve his self created problems.

So while DM's actual intelligence is debatable, his ignorance is not - it is on full display with a sad regularity.


Does anyone know if it is true that D Miscavige lost 30 million $ in an " oil deal " gone bad, after he took over the reins of c of s. ( commodity futures play? )

And the rumor that he was able to pay that money back by getting those Vansetti Prints made and selling them to Scientologist thru Author Services?


Gold Meritorious Patron
The Runt Usurper may have intellectual intelligence (or may not) but He certainly lacks emotional and social intelligence.

That He managed to expand the cult after Hubbard's death is a testament to His abilities - that wasn't an easy job.

That it's all been downhill from there is a testament to His stupidity - He may have billion$ locked away in Luxemborg and real estate BUT in this post 9/11 world, even that can be clawed back. Difficult job, but not impossible.

He's a delusional LITTLE man "stuck in the wins" of the past and stupidly destroying something that He could've kept going a lot better than He has. There's never been a reason for Him to treat His minions in the shitty way He has - that alone has cost the cult very dearly. There'd be no lurid tales by former deputies and close underlings, and that's smashed the brand more than anything Hubbard could ever do.

He has an ability to keep selling turds rolled in glitter to the Faithful but that's all.


Gold Meritorious Patron
If DM's intentions are to get rid of Scientology and to take all the money, his adaptations and the things he has not handled are not stupid.....if these are his intentions.

A life in exile in Columbia with a lot of money and a corrupt government is not an intelligent choice.

DM has only adapted in ways to suck more money out of the members......getting donations for real estate for which the members get nothing in return......demanding members retrain and pay money again for services they have already done......redoing the books and reprinting them .... insisting that the members buy one or more sets and do a special course for those books.....making people get 6 month sec checks.....etc.

I don't see any adaptations DM has implemented that were for the benefit of the members or that would help them get up the Bridge or that would help Scientology to expand. I don't think those things are his intention. I don't think that he as any intention at all of doing anything that would help Scientology to survive or expand.
Agreed in full.
I think these adaptations are his way of covertly destroying Scientology from the inside,

This is where you lose me. I don't think he wants to destroy his cash cow and live in exile in Columbia. He may do if he has no choice, but he wants the money, the celebrity friends the slaves and the freedom of living in America.

We all want a healthy body AND we want the ice cream.

DM wants Scientology to work AND he wants to suck the life out of people.

He actions are inconsistent with reality.

..... while lying to the members and to the SO that it is expanding....so that he can maintain the protection of the SO while he is sucking all the money he can out of the members that are still in and still loyal. Eventually it will all implode and I think he knows this and has planned it this way so that he will be the only one left with all the money and he can then retire with all the money he ever needs to buy his own island or however else he has planned to live out the rest of his life in a way that no one can ever get their hands on him or get back at him for the things that he has done.

You are right there. He knows where this is going, but he doesn't have the intelligence to fix it. More importantly, he didn't have the foresight to not be involved with activities that he should not have been involved with.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the Ideal Orgs had nothing to do with saving Scientology.....they were just another way for DM to suck the money out of Scientologists bank accounts and into DM's control.

The only adaptations that DM has done have the intent to shrink Scientology and get rid of it, and line his coffers with gold.


The internet works in his favor....he can use it to point to and get people in Scientology to donate money to fight those dirty SP's who are on the internet....just more money in his coffers.

The internet does not work in his favour. The last 6 years have been the worst thing that has ever happened to Scientology.

I think that DM wants the CoS to die out before he does.....along with any popularity of LRH and/or Scientology. I think DM is, on purpose, slowly murdering LRH's baby and his reputation, all the while setting himself up to be very, very rich and he doesn't seem to care who he steps on or wipes out to achieve his goals. What LRH built, DM will destroy and benefit from in the process.

I think that DM wants to be the final leader of Scientology and wants it to be gone/dead before he dies so that he knows that no one else will ever take it over and try to lead it back to success. Perhaps he saw a long time ago that there is no real Bridge to OT or Route to Total Freedom, and never was, and has set out to just get rid of it, while collecting as much money along the way, as he can.

There is so much money in offshore accounts. If he wanted out, he would have made Marty king years ago, quietly left with most of the money (like a certain Enron exec who is a big landowner in Colarado now).

The supposed SP's....those who have left, those who speak out are actually helping him with the demise of the CoS by discouraging any new people from joining and by giving DM an excuse to demand more donations to 'handle' those nasty SP's out there, so that he can suck any money out of Scientologists that they might have left, before the CoS implodes. He's going to get every dime he can out of them before the whole thing ends.

These are just my thoughts. May not really be the way it is for DM.

If they are helping, why persecute them?


Gold Meritorious Patron

I always feel as if someone is trying to manipulate "public opinion" when I read something like this from Mike or Marty.

It matters not to most of us whether miscavige is (seen as) thick as a brick or not (and of course he isn't) ... but apparently it matters to Mike and Marty, and I can't imagine why ...


You mean Mike would have to admit he got conned by an uneducated alcoholic moron?

Surely you don't mean that?

Cause if you've got anything bad to say about Mike...

...I'm all ears :)

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
It was never plausible that Miscavige was really dumb, but 'highly intelligent' is like 'tall' for a tree. There's tree-in-the-park tall, and there's Giant Sequoia tall. I don't doubt that Miscavige is smarter and better read than your average high school dropout, but I've seen no evidence of anything more than that.

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Ummm, I'd like a second opinion on the Miscavige intelligence level.
DM’s test score is very high, I agree with that. But that didn’t happen because of his religious training – Scientologists take the same test over and over so their scores are bound to improve. But in real world such “IQ measurement” is a no-no. DM is the only person for whom Scientology works – it made him very rich, which shows a good judgment on his part. Perhaps, he reads a lot of books, but that doesn’t mean anything – we don’t know what kind of books he is interested in. He might as well read Hubbard crap only, or some silly comics.


Gold Meritorious Patron
You take control of a multi million dollar corporation. Your products cost nothing, delivery is negligible, no R&D costs. Your existing customers are every CEO's dream. They pay happily for a product that may,or may not, deliver some vague "something" and keep paying for more, regularly. The happiest customers dedicate themselves to make other customers happier for a billion years at virtually no cost to you. Your customers are so loyal they cannot imagine life without your product and will do virtually anything to help ensure the product continues to be available. You have plenty of funds available to you to live an amazing life while ensuring that you keep your customers happy.

What would an intelligent person do?
What did Little Davey do?


That is the most interesting point on this thread. The baby boomers, who were around at the time of Hubbard are the lifeblood of Scientology. Will their death mark the end of Scientology? A very interesting question and an intelligent interpretation of the expression 'outlive it's founder.'

You've made a good point here. Scientology was a child of the 50's, 60's and 70's and it held attraction for the generation just before the baby boomers and also the baby boomers. The generations after the boomers, such as the millenials don't seem to be attracted much to scientology except for the fact that it has in it a lot of big name celebrities. Other than the celebrity thing, younger people seem to regard Scientology as passe and out of date. As the baby boomer generation continues to age and begins dying off, that could signal an end for scn.

I don't. Scientology isn't imperfect because it wasn't finished. It is imperfect on its own merits.

It was designed to make money, it did that under Hubbard and it was a growing religion, even in spite of well funded attacks from governments and the medical profession. Who ever said it was perfect? No one has ever said that or even suggested it. Even Hubbard said only that it was a workable system, not a perfect system.

True. He has adapted. But none of these adaptations address the real problems killing Scientology. The refund stats aren't what's killing Scientology. Disconnection, constant regging, the internet, the press, the demoralizing startovers (GATII, redoing OTVII and OTVIII, redos of the basics etc. He hasn't adapted to the real problems in a realistic way.

You've got to look at what his major goal is. DM's major goal seems to be to amass a huge amount of money and to wield power over people. He seems to want to be a world class billionaire who is taken seriously. He does not really want to run a successful main stream religion which nurtures it's parishioners and holds barbecues, has Bingo nights and things of that nature. He looks down on those activities as being degraded and humanoid. He has adapted with new means of making even more money than LRH ever did, despite a dwindling membership. If you don't like the descriptive "intelligent" then call him "resourceful".

Expensive fixtures require expensive maintenance. If the orgs are insolvent, they will depreciate. Some of the ideal orgs have depreciated due to a lack of maintenance. These do not address the major threats to the survival of Scientology.

I cannot see the ideal orgs saving Scientology.

Of course they are not going to save scientology, but they are going to make a lot of money for COS and ultimately make DM a billionaire if he remains COB for a long enough time. Your points about maintenance do have merit. The deteriorating fixtures do lower values but not enough to prevent huge sums of money from being made. Let's say the parishioners purchase a $10 million building and spend $5 million on nice fixtures. COS then assumes ownership of a $15 million property and owns it free and clear. They can then mortgage the building and draw $10 million or more and do whatever they want with that money. The Org pays COS to rent back the building which the org's parishioners paid for. That rent can be used to pay the mortgage and tax payments on the building.

This is a very intricate and clever system which DM has devised - I don't thing you are sufficiently aware of how clever it is and how this all works! Let's go 12 years into the future and say the building has doubled in value from $10 million to $20 million but the fixtures have not been kept up so their value might have shrunk to $1 milliion or maybe they are even a liability with a negative worth. Had the fixtures been kept up, the building with fixtures might be worth $30 million but maybe the deteriorating fixtures have reduced this to $20 milliion. Still COS's portfolio grows, the have the option to refinance the building and pull out more money. They have the ability to raise the rent and if they cash out and sell the make a huge profit.

DM has not handled the internet. DM knew about the internet in the 90s with the work of the old guard. Arnie Lerma blew the lid on OTIII back then. Even after 2008, Tommy Davis was still denying the Xenu story. It took almost 20 years for David Miscavige to learn that he could not play hide the ball with Scientology's secrets. Even after the advent of Anonymous, when it could have occurred to him, he waited until journalists had repeatedly talked about this publicly before he conceded defeat.

As to telling people not to look at entheta, that is hardly new in Scientology.

The internet cannot be handled, it is a big thorn in his side. No one ever side that he can "handle" it. No one, not even a Steve Jobs, an Elon Musk, or a Bill Gates can handle the internet. DM does what he can. Damage occurs and he attempts to mitigate the damage with his Private Investigators and his army of high priced attorneys. A major effort is made to cover up the damages or have them mitigated by court decisions. DM is puts up a hard fight but with more and more abuses coming to light it seems to me that he is finally starting to lose ground.

As to the Superbowl ads, the fact that he doesn't realize that those ads probably did more damage to the brand indicates he is stupid. Anyone who responded to those ads by googling them would be in for a big surprise. Did he think people were going to flood the orgs? Seriously.

There is no proof that the ads did more damage than good. You have nothing to back that up. With the viewership the Super Bowl has plus the fact that most people have barely heard about scientology, it is likely that the ads stirred up some response. Maybe some people will go to an Org and buy intro services or maybe they won't. Expensive ads watched by tens of millions of people usually generate some positive interest or improve the image of one's "brand". In the case of scientology, neither you nor I have the slightest inkling of what kind of results they got from those ads.

Doing the same thing you have done previously over and over again is not adaptation.

It is one of the symptoms of stupidity.

Doing the same thing over and over is not adaptation but if each time it is done, it brings in money and causes more services to be delivered then it should still be done. Continuing a successful action is evidence of intelligence. Adaptation occurs in the reformatting and repackaging phases, making the same products look different so people think they are getting something new when they are not. It requires some sort of intelligence to dupe one's parishioners in this manner; in fact, the parishioner not only pay for the new reformatted materials but they will fight even harder to defend DM and don't realize that they have been duped. If you don't call this an exhibition of intelligence then use the word "cunning" instead.

I am probably conflating wisdom a little with intelligence, but not benevolence and kindness. I don't think the Vatican is being benevolent in adapting. I think they are acting out of self interest.

Who said anything about the Vatican? Why does acting of out self interest coincide with a lack of intelligence in your eyes? Every person must devote some portion of his/her intelligence towards acting in their own self interest in this society in order to survive!

Your closing statement aove is an understatement to say the least!! Also, denial that you are conflating benevolence and kindness with intelligence. You remarks that scientology should open up charities and that DM wants to save the scientology religion with the intent of enhancing the lives of his parishioners, etc. are all naive and assume that he has kindhearted goals about enhancing his parishioners and helping create a better world. You seem to measure intelligence by judging if various actions will achieve the goals which you believe should be achieved. The problem is that you are ascribing your goals onto DM when in actual fact, DM's goals are quite different from yours. To your credit, your goals are much more humane and less money and power oriented than DM's. Even so, determining another's intelligence by comparing his deeds to your goals is not a very effective litmus test on which to declare that someone is or is not intelligent.
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