David Miscavige Treason Condition

Gadfly

Crusader
It never fails to amuse me how Scientologists assign conditions - to individuals, groups or even the planet, as if they had either the authority or the capacity to enforce their ways. Deluded arrogance at its finest. Think of a dung beetle scuttling into an elephant reserve who decides that those dumb beasts should change their behavior. Then he returns to his dunghill to receive frenetic applause from the fellow bugs. And the elephants never noticed a thing.

Excellent analogy! :thumbsup:
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
I realize that my views may be controversial, but here they are anyway. I think that the latest batch of defectors are pretty brilliant in talking about how out-tech and out-KSW the pope on a rope is being. LRH-worshipping self-delusion aside, I think that the strategy has potential. It speaks to the still-in Koolaid drinkers in a way that no critics or anons ever could.

And yea, I get it that Marty's lot is self-deluded and Ron's Orgs are, well, Ron's Orgs. But I'm willing to deal with that later. I don't have any quarrel with people who believe weird shit just as long as they don't belong to an abusive organization like Co$.

For my part, I want to see moar like this treason condition. Hell, Mah-tay may even be able to afford Goldenrod paper to print Dwarfenfuhrer's SP declare. How sweet is that?
 

Captain Koolaid

Patron Meritorious
I realize that my views may be controversial, but here they are anyway. I think that the latest batch of defectors are pretty brilliant in talking about how out-tech and out-KSW the pope on a rope is being. LRH-worshipping self-delusion aside, I think that the strategy has potential. It speaks to the still-in Koolaid drinkers in a way that no critics or anons ever could.

And yea, I get it that Marty's lot is self-deluded and Ron's Orgs are, well, Ron's Orgs. But I'm willing to deal with that later. I don't have any quarrel with people who believe weird shit just as long as they don't belong to an abusive organization like Co$.

For my part, I want to see moar like this treason condition. Hell, Mah-tay may even be able to afford Goldenrod paper to print Dwarfenfuhrer's SP declare. How sweet is that?

True, but here's the problem: If we don't learn from our mistakes, we're prone to repeat them. The abuse is hardwired into 'the tech', so we'll probably see sinister cult 2.0 in the making.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I realize that my views may be controversial, but here they are anyway. I think that the latest batch of defectors are pretty brilliant in talking about how out-tech and out-KSW the pope on a rope is being. LRH-worshipping self-delusion aside, I think that the strategy has potential. It speaks to the still-in Koolaid drinkers in a way that no critics or anons ever could.

And yea, I get it that Marty's lot is self-deluded and Ron's Orgs are, well, Ron's Orgs. But I'm willing to deal with that later. I don't have any quarrel with people who believe weird shit just as long as they don't belong to an abusive organization like Co$.

For my part, I want to see moar like this treason condition. Hell, Mah-tay may even be able to afford Goldenrod paper to print Dwarfenfuhrer's SP declare. How sweet is that?

I am on the same page as you.

I watched Marty interviewed on NBC for some Brian William's piece.

He talked about how HE HIMSELF ordered people to be spied on. He talked about how insanely tight the control of staff was.

And, he often does NOT say things like, "and it is all because of David Miscavige", and "Ron never meant for this".

The things Marty often says ARE TRUE, and they paint a very nasty and ugly picture of the Church of Scientology. As I see it, regardless of what he may actually think about Flubbard, he is doing a "very good thing". :yes:

He, more than many others, are out there making the Church of Scientology LOOK BAD. :yes:

And, THAT is wonderful. :thumbsup:

Also, just as you say, very often the over-indoctrinated Scientologist is NOT receptive to critics and "entheta", BUT they can be swayed by "using Scientology ideas to attack the Church of Scientology". Like how some people have used a "doubt formula" to LEAVE the Church of Scientology.

As long as the momentum is AWAY from participation with and support for the Church of Scientology, it is all good to me. The centralized Scientology organization, operating on Hubbard's "Admin tech", is the fundamental cancer that neebs to be irradiated or cut out of existence.

Everything happens on a "gradient". The Scientology believers got involved on a gradient, and they will "get out" on a gradient. That "getting fully out" might seem slow to some of us, but I don't mind if some park themselves in the Free Zone Indie realm, just as long as they have fully "disconnected" from the Church of Scientology.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
True, but here's the problem: If we don't learn from our mistakes, we're prone to repeat them. The abuse is hardwired into 'the tech', so we'll probably see sinister cult 2.0 in the making.

It is only hard-wired into the subject if the people who use the subject don't "pick and choose".

While Marty might not talk about that, there are MANY people out there in the Indie realm who DO pick and choose, and who have no use for the ideas or practices of SP declares, disconnection, Fair Game, Hard Sell, noisy investigations, attack tactics, the justice policies, and so many of the nuttier aspects of Scientology.

Yes, if a persojn remains a robot to ALL of the subject materials, yes, what you say is true. But, outside of the control of a centralized outfit like the C of S, people can be and are much less severe in their fundamentalistic interpretation of the "dogma".

It is the same with Christianity or Islam. There are a great many NUTTY ideas in the literature, BUT, some or many people choose to ignore and NOT follow those nuttier ideas.

As long as people can pick & choose, the idea of being "hard-wired" is NOT pertinent.

But, only time will tell.

This is all theoretical and abstract anyway. You will not EVER be able to outlaw or get rid of "beliefs" or "subject materials". What you can get rid of are the nastier behaviors of an outfit like the C of S.

In modern societies people are guaranteed the freedom to think and believe whatever they choose. I agree with that. But, in enacting those ideas and beliefs, they are NOT free to harm others.

This tension/conflict between ideas and behaviors with Scientology will continue as the dialetic process unravels on many levels - personal, social and within the Scientology groups.

The Church of Scientology will remain the recipient of ever-growing attacks until it either changes or dies. It will probably die, but who knows?
 

Veda

Sponsor
I realize that my views may be controversial, but here they are anyway. I think that the latest batch of defectors are pretty brilliant in talking about how out-tech and out-KSW the pope on a rope is being. LRH-worshipping self-delusion aside, I think that the strategy has potential. It speaks to the still-in Koolaid drinkers in a way that no critics or anons ever could.

And yea, I get it that Marty's lot is self-deluded and Ron's Orgs are, well, Ron's Orgs. But I'm willing to deal with that later. I don't have any quarrel with people who believe weird shit just as long as they don't belong to an abusive organization like Co$.

For my part, I want to see moar like this treason condition. Hell, Mah-tay may even be able to afford Goldenrod paper to print Dwarfenfuhrer's SP declare. How sweet is that?

About thirty years ago this batch were saying the same things. In a year or two, most of them realized how silly they looked, and that what they were protesting was not "altered Scientology" but Scientology.

6494349523_2cdfafc099.jpg


This latest batch, over all, is slower, and their leader, Marty Rathbun, having been out of organized Scientology for eight years, seems to be changing very little (except, in certain circumstances, for PR consumption by "wogs").

Not to worry though. This batch of very slow cogniters will be syncronized perfectly for the eventual depature of David Miscavige, and the beginning of a new era of IN-LRH Tech:

ab371.jpg


None of these people were "brilliant." They were just still brainwashed and didn't know it. That ain't brilliance. :)
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
About thirty years ago this batch were saying the same things. In a year or two, most of them realized how silly they looked, and that what they were protesting was not "altered Scientology" but Scientology.

...

This latest batch, over all, is slower, and their leader, Marty Rathbun, having been out of organized Scientology for eight years, seems to be changing very little (except, in certain circumstances, for PR consumption by "wogs").

Not to worry though. This batch of very slow cogniters will be syncronized perfectly for the eventual depature of David Miscavige, and the beginning of a new era of IN-LRH Tech:

...

None of these people were "brilliant." They were just still brainwashed and didn't know it. That ain't brilliance.

The one thing that's different this time, and which makes it much more interesting, is that Hubbard isn't around any more.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
The one thing that's different this time, and which makes it much more interesting, is that Hubbard isn't around any more.

What's more, Marty et al. have posted their opinions of "what would Ron do" all over the interwebz. Makes it harder for them to back away from all this promised reform.

Also, Marty (the alpha of the Indies) never met LRH, so it's possible he really believes that all this malevolence comes from only Der Dwarfenfuhrer.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
The one thing that's different this time, and which makes it much more interesting, is that Hubbard isn't around any more.

Another thing that is VERY different this time involves the "information highway".

Back 30 years ago, information about Hubbard & Scientology was not so voluminous or so readily available.

Back then the staff and public could be lied to SO MUCH easier, because there wasn't a near endless barrage of contrary ad critical information.

The variables involved NOW are markedly different.

Today there are just so MANY more "decent people" who have been declared and expelled from the Church of Scientology. They talk, and many of the members still "in" probably recognize to some degree that all their past friends and family are not "really SPs". Today, they are kids who have grown up in the Sea Org who TALK about it. All of this was non-existent 20-30 years ago. Now there is 20-30 years of rampant Scientology STUPIDITY being freely talked about on a great many venues.

It will be interesting to see how the Church of Scientology, using the SAME old tired LRH ploys and gimmicks, manages to "handle" what it is facing TODAY. At some point you would think that some at INT levels would say, "gee this tech isn't working". :duh:

The Internet blew the lid off of "information" about Hubbard and Scientology. And, these days journalists and media outlets do NOT seem to "fear" the litigation threats as they did in the past. In a very real sense the game has changed, and while Hubbard's GO/OSA "tech" has, in the past, managed to "change the playing field in their favor", I don't see that they can succeed at that nearly as well as they did in the past.

While there are similarities between today's situation and the past, there are also MANY MARKED differences. I suspect that some of these differences will work AGAINST the behemoth known as the Church of Scientology. We can only hope!! :happydance:
 

Veda

Sponsor
The one thing that's different this time, and which makes it much more interesting, is that Hubbard isn't around any more.

One difference was the character and quality of the leadership. Compare Marty Rathbun, 8 years after leaving the CofS, with David Mayo, 3 years after leaving the CofS. Can anyone imagine Marty Rathbun giving an interview such as this, 3 years after leaving, or even, now, 8 years after leaving?

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm

Nope.

Despite the existence of the Internet, these folks are on the s_l_o_w boat...


"Every individual person has their own comm line to LRH. And certain things have happened in the Church over a number of years that have gotten in between that comm line... ARC broken... whatever it is, that serves to cut across your comm line with LRH...

"Whatever is going to facilitate your own comm line with LRH is going to be the most pro-survival thing for you..."


Dan Koon, editor for 'What's Wrong with Scientology?'
 

Veda

Sponsor
What's more, Marty et al. have posted their opinions of "what would Ron do" all over the interwebz. Makes it harder for them to back away from all this promised reform.

Also, Marty (the alpha of the Indies) never met LRH, so it's possible he really believes that all this malevolence comes from only Der Dwarfenfuhrer.

Marty Rathbun - in a "PR damage control" situation (modified by being) in the Internet/Information age - is knowingly, and willfully, bullshitting on behalf of L. Ron Hubbard and L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology.

He's on a (apparently self-assigned) "mission," as he calls it.

"Back away from promised reform"?

You must have missed the briefing on Scientological double-talk. :)

2011-09-29-1543-49.jpg
 
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Gadfly

Crusader
One difference was the character and quality of the leadership. Compare Marty Rathbun, 8 years after leaving the CofS, with David Mayo, 3 years after leaving the CofS. Can anyone imagine Marty Rathbun giving an interview such as this, 3 years after leaving, or even, now, 8 years after leaving?

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm

Nope.

Despite the existence of the Internet, these folks are on the s_l_o_w boat...


"Every individual person has their own comm line to LRH. And certain things have happened in the Church over a number of years that have gotten in between that comm line... ARC broken... whatever it is, that serves to cut across your comm line with LRH...

"Whatever is going to facilitate your own comm line with LRH is going to be the most pro-survival thing for you..."


Dan Koon, editor for 'What's Wrong with Scientology?'

:thumbsup:

Yeah, the CORRECT COGNITION is that the best thing to do IS to cut your comm line with Hubbard!

People who actually think in such terms kill me!!!! :hysterical:

To me this is the correct viewpoint and approach:

Completely decimate all comm lines with L. Ron Hubbard as quickly as possible and in every way possible! :happydance:

Dan Koon, you big stupid dumbass! Severing all connections with Hubbard in every regard is the "most pro-survival thing for you". :yes:

Dan, in Scio-speak, Hubbard is the basic SP on the case!!!! :ohmy:
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Fix scientology with scientology.
Use scientology ethics tech to correct scientology.

That is all complete & utter insanity.

Put DM in treason ? What a fucking joke. The ethics conditions are pure cult think - at best.

Who the fuck cares if Ron had 1 or 4 or 7 children ? Or had I or 4 or 7 ) wives ?
That is NOT where he did the most damage ( yeah, I know he may have had several of his own family killed ). Where he did real fucking serious damage was to those who followed him, their families, friends, & love ones plus the same for his enemies (whetger real - or just imagined).

The ranting & ramblings of a madman ( plus what he stole & altered ) are NOT going to ever fix that massively jumbled insanity called scientology.

But, those like Marty the rat bum, who insist on going down to that ( called scientology ) Titanic thinking they can raise it & sail it to it's former)(alleged ) glorious days by farting their beans & rice into it ? Well. Go for it.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased

Great Scot! Another blatant Big Brother pic!

Where the hell are you pulling these out of, Veda?

These would make a great thread as a parody of Where's Waldo or the Playboy bunny on the covers.

Where's Ronnie! How come I never seen this before?

Good Lord!
 

Boomima

Patron with Honors
True dat, but still...got my facts wrong on first sight, so I had to take a tiny mental pinch. I assumed he wrote that diatribe, he did'nt (though publishing that bullshit is a sin of it's own), I corrected, thing's done. :)

Well, riddle me this, Batman. What is meant by "we believe they had four kids?" Setting aside his children with his two other wives, is there some mystery about how many children LRH and MSH had?



LRH was happily married to Mary Sue and we believe they had four kids - Diana, Arthur, Quentin and Suzette. LRH wrote much tech for raising kids, educating them and maintaining a flourishing family.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Did Marty completely forget that he worked for many years, supporting everything David Miscavige did, committing the crimes that Miscavige ordered, abusing people for Miscavige, lying for Miscavige, covering up for Miscavige?

Did Marty completely forget that he supported Miscavige fully, completely and absolutely -- and punished Scientologists who did not completely support Miscavige?

Did Marty completely forget his crimes?

We don't and we won't.

God, what a hypocrite! What condition did he assign himself? "Power"?
 
No matter what happens to Scientology, no matter who is next in charge, no matter if it splinters into a thousand groups, anyone and everyone who is involved will suffer to the degree they are involved in the perpetual and self-generating self-delusion known as Scientology.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
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