David Miscavige's position before the mass defections

If you look at the Scientology biography page for the top exectuves (http://web.archive.org/web/20080119...ogy.org/news-media/biographies/miscavige.html) there are a couple of very curious things about it and about Miscavige's bio. First, the fact that there are bios for all the main execs, whereas the exec bio page now only lists the public relations staff, and Miscavige has his very own page on the Scientology and RTC websites. The original versions of the Scientology and RTC websites (1996-2000) don't even bother mentioning Miscavige, and only featured a "message from the president" Heber Jentzsch. Third, on the archived bio page above, Miscavige isn't at the top of the list but the 5th one down.

I know people who defected from Int said that Miscavige was always in control, but was it all more "democratic" or consensus driven back in the 80s and 90s? That's how it comes across above. Because if Miscavige was a dictator back then, why wouldn't the execs have defected much sooner?

Even weirder is that if it was always a dictatorship under Miscavige, that the only execs would let him get away with that since he has never had legal grounds to micromanage the other orgs and projects that are not under the administration of RTC. According to the RTC website, RTC is not part of the management structure of the Church: "Religious Technology Center is not part of the management structure of the Church, nor is it involved in the Church’s day-to-day affairs."

That's pretty weird because he calls himself the "leader" of Scientology and from all accounts Hubbard did not want Scientology to have a single central leader (like the Pope) because that would undermine his position as founder and source. So Hubbard was supposed to be the only leader the Church will ever have since the Int execs only exist to carry out his policies instead of running things on their own. This is contradicted by Miscavige since puts out new policy all the time and the other execs around him then must have helped put him in that position.

What's weirder is that if the accusations are true, then the Int execs carried out Miscavige's policies for years without complaint or opposition, and crush regging for services and IAS fundraising fanaticism existed back in the 80s and 90s based on what people tell me.

The only difference I can find is that Miscavige started beating the bloody hell out of everyone at Int and sent them to The Hole and thats why they left. But it seems strange that out of the blue in 2002 Miscavige would start getting violent and go to insane extremes to imprison and torture Int execs. If true, that shit had to have been going on long before in the 90s, maybe even earlier. And nobody fought back or called the cops or FBI or IRS or anything while this stuff was happening which makes no sense since Miscavige is not equal to Hubbard and is just some flunky whose job is to protect Scientology copyrights and make sure orgs are getting in KSW.

It makes no sense because the feds will raid religious compounds if there is even a hint of violence or illegal activity going on but they've not raided any Scientology orgs in the US since Snow White. One Sea Org guy who showed me some ref about Super Power where Hubbard says that the ultimate goal of Super Power is to run it on government officials and make them into Scientologists and take over the US, and we started talking about collapse of government for some reason and he mentioned that Int has stockpiled plenty of weapons and they are ready to protect the base in case the shit hits the fan and anarchy breaks out. Just the suggestion that they have stockpiled weapons would have the feds raiding a long time ago.

What gives?
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
It's complicated. One can't act on rumor, or on statements that are made by exs and then denied by Sea org staff ( see Mike Rinder comments and Tony O articles about why the FBI had stopped investigating)

Did the Headleys And Their Lawsuit Torpedo the FBI Investigation of Scientology?
By Tony Ortega Jan 13, 2013
http://tonyortega.org/2013/01/13/di...torpedo-the-fbi-investigation-of-scientology/

FBI Investigation of Scientology: Already Over Before We Even Heard of It
By Tony Ortega Mon., Mar. 19 2012 at 8:00 AM
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/03/scientology_fbi_investigation_over.php
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
I know people who defected from Int said that Miscavige was always in control, but was it all more "democratic" or consensus driven back in the 80s and 90s? That's how it comes across above. Because if Miscavige was a dictator back then, why wouldn't the execs have defected much sooner?

In the early/mid '80's he wasn't RTC
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
He would have been in the mid-80s because RTC was formed in 1982 and Miscarriage was on the original Board of Directors. I believe he was in CMO before that.


I was there. There was no Board of Directors of RTC at the time. Were YOU there in '82-'85? He was Spec Pjt Ops under Pat B. at the time. Not part of CMOI or RTC. He was paid out of ASI.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I was there. There was no Board of Directors of RTC at the time. Were YOU there in '82-'85? He was Spec Pjt Ops under Pat B. at the time. Not part of CMOI or RTC. He was paid out of ASI.


I concur. I was there too.

Way lower on the food chain, but there.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I was there. There was no Board of Directors of RTC at the time. Were YOU there in '82-'85? He was Spec Pjt Ops under Pat B. at the time. Not part of CMOI or RTC. He was paid out of ASI.

Well I thought Spec Pjt Ops was on the CMOI org board? I know that he was the one who called John Nelson in Copenhagen to tell him that Dede had been busted and that he, Nelson, needed to come back as he was now CO CMO Int. IIRC that was January 1982. I was the one working with John.
 

JoeLarabell

Patron
Strange... Here's a link to the Articles of Incorporation from Jan 1982:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RTC-Incorporation.djvu

and Miscarriage's name is on the first page as one of the incorporators. He's also listed on page 6 as being one of the original Trustees (ok... so I said "Board of Directors" but it was actually seven Trustees). I was around then but wasn't involved in any sort of management so what I know was 2nd- or 3rd-hand at best. But the paper trail doesn't usually lie...
 

JoeLarabell

Patron
Here's a Tampa Bay Times article on Miscarriage that claims he was *head* of CMO at age 19 -- which would be around 1979, no? Of course bios can be doctored (as would be fitting of any disciple of the Old Man ;-).
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
I find it funny how the bio lists the interview with Ted Koppel that won the Emmy award as one of DM "accomplishments". I guess Miscavige is proud of that, although I'm not sure why. After that appearance, he never came on TV again. Wright writes in his book that he even had a duplicate Emmy made and keeps it in his office because, "He won Ted that award." Of course, he's right, he did, but not because the interview was profound, like a journalist speaking with Nelson Mandela or Desmond Tutu. Koppel won because D.M is a freak show and he was able to pin him down and melt him down as only a great journalist can....the only profound thing going on is his narcissism. COB just doesn't get it.
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
Well I thought Spec Pjt Ops was on the CMOI org board? I know that he was the one who called John Nelson in Copenhagen to tell him that Dede had been busted and that he, Nelson, needed to come back as he was now CO CMO Int. IIRC that was January 1982. I was the one working with John.

John lasted a very short before Marc Y. took the post of CO CMOI. DM left CMOI at that point.. "Spec Pjt. Ops" was a position under Big P. (Pat B.) at that point and was not on any "Orgs" Org Board.

He originally (under Pat) dealt mainly with V.A. and her handling of OSA running the M.A.C. He also crossed over doing stuff via Corp. Liaison (Mark & Jason) handling ASI related interests at Int. Mainly R properties (films, music, et al.)
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
Strange... Here's a link to the Articles of Incorporation from Jan 1982:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RTC-Incorporation.djvu

and Miscarriage's name is on the first page as one of the incorporators. He's also listed on page 6 as being one of the original Trustees (ok... so I said "Board of Directors" but it was actually seven Trustees). I was around then but wasn't involved in any sort of management so what I know was 2nd- or 3rd-hand at best. But the paper trail doesn't usually lie...


As you can see from the paperwork, there was no CoB. All orgs are under corporation with listed board members as required by law. They aren't and never were "posts". He invented the title after his coup. The "paper trail" has nothing to do postings within the org structures.
 

FlunkYou

Patron with Honors
The only difference I can find is that Miscavige started beating the bloody hell out of everyone at Int and sent them to The Hole and thats why they left. But it seems strange that out of the blue in 2002 Miscavige would start getting violent and go to insane extremes to imprison and torture Int execs. If true, that shit had to have been going on long before in the 90s, maybe even earlier. And nobody fought back or called the cops or FBI or IRS or anything while this stuff was happening which makes no sense since Miscavige is not equal to Hubbard and is just some flunky whose job is to protect Scientology copyrights and make sure orgs are getting in KSW.
What gives?

It might be some form of Stockholm syndrome...
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
Even weirder is that if it was always a dictatorship under Miscavige, that the only execs would let him get away with that since he has never had legal grounds to micromanage the other orgs and projects that are not under the administration of RTC. According to the RTC website, RTC is not part of the management structure of the Church: "Religious Technology Center is not part of the management structure of the Church, nor is it involved in the Church’s day-to-day affairs."

RTC is just one piece of the legal agreement/structure. There was a triad set up. CSI, RTC & CST. It was a corporate structure that granted each a certain function with checks & balances on each other. You can search and I'm certain find the explanation online.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
***
Even weirder is that if it was always a dictatorship under Miscavige, that the only execs would let him get away with that since he has never had legal grounds to micromanage the other orgs and projects that are not under the administration of RTC.
***
What gives?

First, it was not "always a dictatorship under Miscavige." Where did you get that idea? He joined the SO when he was, what, 14? And then worked and connived his way up.

FTR, dictators are not usually sworn in as "dictator" with full dictator privileges on the day they manage to get put in charge. Dictatorships acrete power and abuse their powers more and more over time.

See Hitler, Mussolini, Marcos, Batista, Amin, Duvalier, Stalin, Gadaffi, Hussein, Milosevic
 

Veda

Sponsor
RTC is just one piece of the legal agreement/structure. There was a triad set up. CSI, RTC & CST. It was a corporate structure that granted each a certain function with checks & balances on each other. You can search and I'm certain find the explanation online.

Off hand, I'm not sure where but, if one searches, IIRC, Denise Brennan, who was closely involved with creating that legal agreement/structure, and did so sincerely, ultimately realized that it had been created as a sham cover - a protective cover for the dictator, then L. Ron Hubbard.

This was not unlike the earlier sham cover of Bill Franks having been appointed by Hubbard to be Executive Director International, only for Franks to realize, some time later, that it was, essentially, a sham position.

Of course, now the dictator is Miscavige.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
It might be some form of Stockholm syndrome...

((cut))

I know people who defected from Int said that Miscavige was always in control, but was it all more "democratic" or consensus driven back in the 80s and 90s? That's how it comes across above. Because if Miscavige was a dictator back then, why wouldn't the execs have defected much sooner?

Even weirder is that if it was always a dictatorship under Miscavige, that the only execs would let him get away with that since he has never had legal grounds to micromanage the other orgs and projects that are not under the administration of RTC. According to the RTC website, RTC is not part of the management structure of the Church: "Religious Technology Center is not part of the management structure of the Church, nor is it involved in the Church’s day-to-day affairs."

((cut))

What's weirder is that if the accusations are true, then the Int execs carried out Miscavige's policies for years without complaint or opposition, and crush regging for services and IAS fundraising fanaticism existed back in the 80s and 90s based on what people tell me.

The only difference I can find is that Miscavige started beating the bloody hell out of everyone at Int and sent them to The Hole and thats why they left. But it seems strange that out of the blue in 2002 Miscavige would start getting violent and go to insane extremes to imprison and torture Int execs. If true, that shit had to have been going on long before in the 90s, maybe even earlier. And nobody fought back or called the cops or FBI or IRS or anything while this stuff was happening which makes no sense since Miscavige is not equal to Hubbard and is just some flunky whose job is to protect Scientology copyrights and make sure orgs are getting in KSW.

((cut))

What gives?

See the Panorama documentary from the 1980's, one of the interviewees describes Miscavige beating someone. Jesse Prince and Stacey might have also mentioned witnessing this in some of their interviews.

The beatings have been going on for a while. M & M act like it only started really happening later on because it would be hard to justify staying in and witnessing that for so long without trying to stop it or leaving. People have been exiting Int Base and the Church for decades. We now have "The Hole" but in the early 80's it was the running program and other forms of abuse at Int.
 
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