death by auditing

[MrNobody]

<snip>An Auditor controls the Session in the same Way a Carpenter controls his Power Tools, in that each has an intended, and desirable End Result. I had already earlier posted the Definition of "Auditing" and what its objectives are.<snip>

I work with wood occasionally, and I can basically shape a piece of wood into almost any form I want. The thought of doing that to some human brain functions is not a desirable one to me.

 

[Infinite]

I work with wood occasionally, and I can basically shape a piece of wood into almost any form I want. The thought of doing that to some human brain functions is not a desirable one to me.

Yes. Its that real dichotomy in Scientology where, on the one hand there's all this blather about spirituality then, on the other, an overriding rigid, mechanistic materialism wherein the human being is conceptually reduced to little more than a broken calculator that needs fixing. It seems we're all stuck buttons which display the wrong digits and prevent the Clear function from working.

 

[olska]

I have agreed with everything you said right up to the second clause of your next-to-last sentence.

Goodbye, and any other Scientologist, is NOT free to do to others whatever they can convince them to submit to.

Licensing is a practice that governments use to protect the public from ignorant, unskilled, or destructive people operating in fields that can be dangerous to society.

For instance, if a plumber does not know what he is doing, he can hook the sewer up to the water faucets of every apartment in an apartment building, and sicken or kill every one in it. So they license plumbers, and require that they have the relevant training, and that they do all their work per code. And when a licensed plumber makes too many mistakes, or harms too many people, they pull his license and do not let him practice on people any more.

Given what we have all seen from the dangers of auditing, I believe that it is quite necessary to license auditors, just as other therapists are licensed, in order to protect the public from ignorant and destructive practitioners of Scientology - which are everywhere nowadays.

The Church of Scientology's training and certification program has proven to be a complete joke, and they have proven themselves to be thoroughly untrusted to protect the public from harm.

It is time to delete Scientology's "rights" as a religion, move them over into being a therapy business - just like all other hypnotherapists - set standards for their practice, and license them.

Then, the next person to receive Scientology services who kills their mother like Jeremy Perkins, or any of the other tragedies that came about as a result of Scientology, those who caused the situation will have their licenses pulled, and face prosecution.

People will still be free to practice Scientology as much as they want.

But they will no longer be free to submit people to harm.

Unfortunately, in the USA there is currently no licensing (that I know of) required for people who practice off-beat "spiritual" practices like scientology. All they need is a willing subject.

 

[Ladybird]

I have agreed with everything you said right up to the second clause of your next-to-last sentence.

Goodbye, and any other Scientologist, is NOT free to do to others whatever they can convince them to submit to.

Licensing is a practice that governments use to protect the public from ignorant, unskilled, or destructive people operating in fields that can be dangerous to society.

For instance, if a plumber does not know what he is doing, he can hook the sewer up to the water faucets of every apartment in an apartment building, and sicken or kill every one in it. So they license plumbers, and require that they have the relevant training, and that they do all their work per code. And when a licensed plumber makes too many mistakes, or harms too many people, they pull his license and do not let him practice on people any more.

Given what we have all seen from the dangers of auditing, I believe that it is quite necessary to license auditors, just as other therapists are licensed, in order to protect the public from ignorant and destructive practitioners of Scientology - which are everywhere nowadays.

The Church of Scientology's training and certification program has proven to be a complete joke, and they have proven themselves to be thoroughly untrusted to protect the public from harm.

It is time to delete Scientology's "rights" as a religion, move them over into being a therapy business - just like all other hypnotherapists - set standards for their practice, and license them.

Then, the next person to receive Scientology services who kills their mother like Jeremy Perkins, or any of the other tragedies that came about as a result of Scientology, those who caused the situation will have their licenses pulled, and face prosecution.

People will still be free to practice Scientology as much as they want.

But they will no longer be free to submit people to harm.

My thoughts exactly Alonzo. I wrote about this years ago but OCMB is still down so I can't retrieve my earlier posts about how liscenced practioners have fees and insurance to pay, continuing education requirements and only charge an average of 20 dollars and hour for legitimate and peer reviewed science based researched and SAFE supervised therapy.

Scientologists (including freezoners) charge hundreds and even thousands of dollars an hour for pure quackery. They call it "religion" and take absolutely no responsibility for the damage that results.

 

[olska]

A question for the person posting as Goodbye

Goodbye, and any other Scientologist, is NOT free to do to others whatever they can convince them to submit to.

Licensing is a practice that governments use to protect the public from ignorant, unskilled, or destructive people operating in fields that can be dangerous to society.
<>
Given what we have all seen from the dangers of auditing, I believe that it is quite necessary to license auditors, just as other therapists are licensed, in order to protect the public from ignorant and destructive practitioners of Scientology - which are everywhere nowadays.
<>
It is time to ... set standards for [scientologists'] practice, and license them.

Then, the next person to receive Scientology services who kills their mother like Jeremy Perkins, or any of the other tragedies that came about as a result of Scientology, those who caused the situation will have their licenses pulled, and face prosecution.

People will still be free to practice Scientology as much as they want.

Goodbye, since you are obviously a scientologist, I'd like to see your opinion on the proposition that scientology auditors ought to be licensed, as outlined above by Alanzo. Please share?

 

[Voltaire's Child]

FreeZoners do not charge thousands of dollars an hour and in many cases, their fees are less than a hundred dollars an hour. I've also known them to waive fees all together. I'm not sure how someone who's spent such a large amount of time reading Free Zone posts and talking to present and ex Free Zoners would come up with "hundreds and thousands of dollars an hour". I'm going to take that as hyperbole to make a point.

Now as to whether it's quackery or not, I'll just say that licensing a practice does not confer legitimacy or efficacy. There are a lot of practices that are accredited and/or licensed in some venue that are still experimental. TIR would be one of those. There also are some types of psychotherapy that are licensed and yet are quite divergent from the norm and which also are experimental. And, of course, as we know, there are quite a few New Age and other practices out there besides Scientology and Dianetics which are available and which also aren't licensed. We have freedom of belief in much of the world and that's why those things are available.

 

[Nicole]

Yes, you could fit scientology under the large umbrella of "psychotherapy". <snip>

The difference between Scientology auditing and normal psychotherapy is that in the second there is only a single life to deal with. In Scientology the subject imagines many past lives. This is not real and blocks the proper functioning of his thoughts. In normal therapy a patient can lie if he wants to; there is no control by an E-meter. He can decide what to talk about. In auditing the direction of his thoughts is guided by the auditor acting on the rules laid down ultimately by Hubbard. He has no free choice. Normally a patient or subject can choose which problems to work on.

 

[AnonKat]

Do Islam and Christianity have "confidential" scripture which underpins the early stages of indoctrination so that neophytes have no idea of the insane destination? I see the destruction of a personality as akin to murder and, from that perspective, and not even including the collateral damage to families, those that adhere to KSW are far, far worse than the other religious nutters; they use bombs which, at least, grant a quick and permanent death. Scientology uses slow-acting spiritual poison so that a person may be alive yet in suffering for a whole life time.

KSW should be burned and Xenu laughed at. other than that freezoners have freedom of religion.

 

[AnonKat]

Deflection bullshit. Which is just another example of what a bullshitter you really are.

awwwww I love you too.


I will tell you this the Factors be it flawed as they are as well as the axioms make more sense to me than the Story of Adam and Eve and talking bushes.

 

[AnonKat]

The difference between Scientology auditing and normal psychotherapy is that in the second there is only a single life to deal with. In Scientology the subject imagines many past lives. This is not real and blocks the proper functioning of his thoughts. In normal therapy a patient can lie if he wants to; there is no control by an E-meter. He can decide what to talk about. In auditing the direction of his thoughts is guided by the auditor acting on the rules laid down ultimately by Hubbard. He has no free choice. Normally a patient or subject can choose which problems to work on.

Why can't you have an agreement with an auditor to onley do single life auditing. And avoid certain subjects.

Like not asking an 12 year old girl about sexual things.

 

[Alanzo]

Why can't you have an agreement with an auditor to onley do single life auditing. And avoid certain subjects.

Like not asking an 12 year old girl about sexual things.

You don't actually know anything about Scientology technology, do you?

 

[AnonKat]

You don't actually know anything about Scientology technology, do you?

I just don't see a problem with the freezoners practicing it.

And I know what I poroposed was heavy squirreling .

But I am fascinated by the auditing process to do two things. To get rid of Trauma and to raise the Mental abilities of a person.

I am urging towards a study of the processes and of the method of auditing and the processes with Indies joining up with the Study of Neurosciences at the University of Wisconsin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C-oRO6Bxz4


I am not intrested in how Hubbard dressed it up.

 

[MrNobody]

I just don't see a problem with the freezoners practicing it.

And I know what I poroposed was heavy squirreling .

But I am fascinated by the auditing process to do two things. To get rid of Trauma and to raise the Mental abilities of a person.

I am urging towards a study of the processes and of the method of auditing and the processes with Indies joining up with the Study of Neurosciences at the University of Wisconsin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C-oRO6Bxz4


I am not intrested in how Hubbard dressed it up.

DOES Auditing get rid of a trauma? DOES it raise the mental abilities of a person? So far I haven't seen any proof of that. And no, burying a trauma under a pile of other traumas from a gazillion of lifetimes doesn't count. Doing the same IQ test over and over again doesn't count either.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

<snip> But I am fascinated by the auditing process to do two things. To get rid of Trauma and to raise the Mental abilities of a person. <snip>

Hmm.. I've seen people get rid of traumas they got in epic space battles in galaxies far far away where they were eaten by sarlaccs... I've seen mental ability to be an arrogant and conceited asshole raised to phenomenal hights.

I was hardly fascinated!

 

[AnonKat]

Neuroplasticity

DOES Auditing get rid of a trauma? DOES it raise the mental abilities of a person? So far I haven't seen any proof of that. And no, burying a trauma under a pile of other traumas from a gazillion of lifetimes doesn't count. Doing the same IQ test over and over again doesn't count either.

That is why I am happy that there are allready connections between the University of Wisconsin and Independents Scientologist. I hope it will be followed up. The restructuring of the brain by these proccesses and auditing can be studied this way. And IQ tests are not the onley tests.


Keeping the research confined to this lifetime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkXtz72hjDI

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I've often thought of auditing as a so many steps forward, so many steps back proposition. I don't think it's as good as is represented but I think it can and does help to an extent.

 

[Nicole]

Why can't you have an agreement with an auditor to onley do single life auditing. And avoid certain subjects.

Like not asking an 12 year old girl about sexual things.

I am speechless...

You understand nothing...

 

[AnonKat]

I am speechless...

You understand nothing...

What I understand is that a lot of people like it to some extent

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16703

and that the way it is set up in the church is crap.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I think AnonKat understands some of it. Sure he doesn't know all of it, but neither do you, Sauerlanderin. You might want to lay off the value judgments of other contributors. That's at least two of us you've spoken to, thus. We all have our experiences and what we've read. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, areas where we see clearly, and areas where we have blindspots.

 

[Good twin]

I think AnonKat understands some of it. Sure he doesn't know all of it, but neither do you, Sauerlanderin. You might want to lay off the value judgments of other contributors. That's at least two of us you've spoken to, thus. We all have our experiences and what we've read. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, areas where we see clearly, and areas where we have blindspots.

That's why I love ESMB. It's the perfect community to sort things out. Somehow seeing others say what's on my mind helps me to see what I actually think. Then I am free to change my mind. And of course I do. Since joining ESMB I've changed my mind over and over. Just as you have Fluffy. And many many others. That's why I love ESMB and all of you.

I don't post as much as I used to, but I sure can't quit you guys.