death by auditing

[Voltaire's Child]

Hi,

I feel the same way. I've changed my mind about a number of things, to various extents. And the people I've met here- wow!

 

[uniquemand]

The difference between Scientology auditing and normal psychotherapy is that in the second there is only a single life to deal with. In Scientology the subject imagines many past lives. This is not real and blocks the proper functioning of his thoughts. In normal therapy a patient can lie if he wants to; there is no control by an E-meter. He can decide what to talk about. In auditing the direction of his thoughts is guided by the auditor acting on the rules laid down ultimately by Hubbard. He has no free choice. Normally a patient or subject can choose which problems to work on.

Depends on the therapy type. There are therapists, outside of scientology, who deal in past lives. It is not limited to scientology, or to what people call scientology spin-offs. E-meters don't stop a person from lying. They are only used to determine whether or not there is still "charge" on a subject, whether that charge be lies, things that haven't yet been reported, or just "more there" (at least in theory). You do have a point about "what to work on", though in the early going, in Scientology, there is a entry service called "Life Repair", in which the subject determines what topics to cover.

Why can't you have an agreement with an auditor to onley do single life auditing. And avoid certain subjects.

Like not asking an 12 year old girl about sexual things.

In Scientology services, there cannot be such an agreement, because it would create a situation called "mutual out-rudiments", where the practitioner didn't want to talk about certain things, or where the subject didn't want to talk about certain things. Almost by definition, those things would be the areas that were heavily charged. Auditing with an agreement not to touch on the topics that were heavily charged is a useless activity.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Also, there are many different sorts of auditing processes in Scn. Some of them have the auditor SPECIFICALLY telling the pc that it's about this life ONLY.

 

[AnonKat]

In Scientology services, there cannot be such an agreement, because it would create a situation called "mutual out-rudiments", where the practitioner didn't want to talk about certain things, or where the subject didn't want to talk about certain things. Almost by definition, those things would be the areas that were heavily charged. Auditing with an agreement not to touch on the topics that were heavily charged is a useless activity.

Well I don't want to discuss my BDSM activities in great detail with anyone.

Woulsd a Freezoner understand that ?

 

[uniquemand]

FreeZoners don't always apply "Standard Scientology Tech". You might find one that would make such an agreement. If you did, however, I wouldn't expect to make progress. Having such an agreement, about unwillingness to discuss some things, would undermine any therapeutic relationship.

I'm not a scientologist, but I would make no such arrangement. When I give my orientation/intake, I make it clear that some topics we discuss will be difficult and trying. The topics covered will be chosen by the "subject"/client. However, if they get into something that associates with a topic they are uncomfortable with, I won't FORCE them to talk about it, but I make it clear that unwillingness to communicate about a subject is an indicator of charge, and that I wouldn't expect them to be able to make progress without handling any charge that comes up.

 

[AnonKat]

FreeZoners don't always apply "Standard Scientology Tech". You might find one that would make such an agreement. If you did, however, I wouldn't expect to make progress. Having such an agreement, about unwillingness to discuss some things, would undermine any therapeutic relationship.

I'm not a scientologist, but I would make no such arrangement. When I give my orientation/intake, I make it clear that some topics we discuss will be difficult and trying. The topics covered will be chosen by the "subject"/client. However, if they get into something that associates with a topic they are uncomfortable with, I won't FORCE them to talk about it, but I make it clear that unwillingness to communicate about a subject is an indicator of charge, and that I wouldn't expect them to be able to make progress without handling any charge that comes up.

So you would do auditing without any stops if you chose to do it ?

 

[uniquemand]

So you would do auditing without any stops if you chose to do it ?

Without any stops? Basically, the theory is that communicating about a subject is what allows a person to contact suppressed emotion and handle it, rather than not communicating about it. So, either you do the activity, or you don't. Being unwilling to communicate about certain topics would be unproductive.

It's kind of like saying "I'm willing to go spelunking, but just not into any caves."

 

[AnonKat]

Without any stops? Basically, the theory is that communicating about a subject is what allows a person to contact suppressed emotion and handle it, rather than not communicating about it. So, either you do the activity, or you don't. Being unwilling to communicate about certain topics would be unproductive.

It's kind of like saying "I'm willing to go spelunking, but just not into any caves."

Why does this look different than ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOlteNk0UkI

 

[uniquemand]

It doesn't look different, to me. Very standard auditing.

 

[Nicole]

What I understand is that a lot of people like it to some extent

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16703

and that the way it is set up in the church is crap.

With nothing understand I meant, that a twelve year old child shouldn't sit on an E-Meter. It should play, hang around with friends etc. It wasn't a personal attack. It was the topic that was wrong for me. I excuse me, if you understand it wrong and if I choose the wrong words.


@Voltaire Child: I am having my experiences too and I am only a human like you.

 

[AnonKat]

It doesn't look different, to me. Very standard auditing.

Why are people so afraid of this ? And I mean this, just this. Is it because this is what kept then in ?

 

[Voltaire's Child]

With nothing understand I meant, that a twelve year old child shouldn't sit on an E-Meter. It should play, hang around with friends etc. It wasn't a personal attack. It was the topic that was wrong for me. I excuse me, if you understand it wrong and if I choose the wrong words.


@Voltaire Child: I am having my experiences too and I am only a human like you.

So a twelve year old child shouldn't go to church, either, or see a psychotherapist, because he or she should be playing?

Of course they should have their childhood. But the world is full of non Scn'ist children and pre teens who DO get counselling in addition to their childhood activities.

 

[uniquemand]

Why are people so afraid of this ? And I mean this, just this. Is it because this is what kept then in ?

I'm not afraid of it. I would, however, be highly opposed to someone sitting outside waiting to sell him his next course or auditing, waiting to compel him to write a "success story" for use in sales and marketing, and I would be highly opposed to an ethics officer sitting outside ready to use what was given in session as fodder for compelling the person to change his behavior in accordance with command intentions.

 

[AnonKat]

I'm not afraid of it. I would, however, be highly opposed to someone sitting outside waiting to sell him his next course or auditing, waiting to compel him to write a "success story" for use in sales and marketing, and I would be highly opposed to an ethics officer sitting outside ready to use what was given in session as fodder for compelling the person to change his behavior in accordance with command intentions.

What if all those things were stripped off like the freezone apparantly allready has done.

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

So a twelve year old child shouldn't go to church, either, or see a psychotherapist, because he or she should be playing?

Of course they should have their childhood. But the world is full of non Scn'ist children and pre teens who DO get counselling in addition to their childhood activities.

Actually, no. Apart from training in the basic social graces, we should NOT be programming our children with garbage that fucks up the rest of their lives.

 

[uniquemand]

What if all those things were stripped off like the freezone apparantly allready has done.

You speak of the freezone as if it were one application, one organization, etc. Are you sure of this? Does everyone in the freezone operate free of these practices?

Even if they did, I would still think that these activities should be regulated by the sectors of their society which regulate psychotherapy, as well.

However, that said, I am emphatically NOT against the activity that you showed in that youtube video. I think that is highly valuable. It is the reason that I continue to discuss scientology with people nineteen years after they threw me out and declared me a suppressive person.

 

[AnonKat]

You speak of the freezone as if it were one application, one organization, etc. Are you sure of this? Does everyone in the freezone operate free of these practices?

Even if they did, I would still think that these activities should be regulated by the sectors of their society which regulate psychotherapy, as well.

However, that said, I am emphatically NOT against the activity that you showed in that youtube video. I think that is highly valuable. It is the reason that I continue to discuss scientology with people nineteen years after they threw me out and declared me a suppressive person.

Everybody is different.. And yes the Freezone is divers and that is a good thing.

Their are a lot of counsiling activities not regulated. But there is a possibility to list it under alternative theraphy I think in my country.

Psychotherapy is alsoo a divers field.

 

[Infinite]

KSW should be burned and Xenu laughed at. other than that freezoners have freedom of religion.

If you say so. I didn't.

 

[Infinite]

The difference between Scientology auditing and normal psychotherapy is that in the second there is only a single life to deal with. In Scientology the subject imagines many past lives. This is not real and blocks the proper functioning of his thoughts. In normal therapy a patient can lie if he wants to; there is no control by an E-meter. He can decide what to talk about. In auditing the direction of his thoughts is guided by the auditor acting on the rules laid down ultimately by Hubbard. He has no free choice. Normally a patient or subject can choose which problems to work on.

An uneducated, wife beating, child hating, racist, criminally minded, drug addled liar and conman? And he should be handed the keys to meddle in the minds of the innocent under the guise of "religious practise" so as to avoid consumer protection laws? What a crazy world we live in.

 

[AnonKat]

An uneducated, wife beating, child hating, racist, criminally minded, drug addled liar and conman? And he should be handed the keys to meddle in the minds of the innocent under the guise of "religious practise" so as to avoid consumer protection laws? What a crazy world we live in.

I agree with everything but he was NOT uneducated