Debbie Cook -- Exiled by Scientology - moving to the Caribbean

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Do you really think that this time with legal counsel, and excellent legal council at that, such a shanghai would occur?

Absolutely.

The case is over. The papers are signed.

Meanwhile, Debbie is sick. Her and her husband no longer have a business and no longer have an income. They are cut off from family and friends.

And the church, you can be sure, has a lot of sensitive personal information on them and knows how to hit them where it hurts.

What exactly is it that you think a lawyer is going to be able to do for them at this point? He can't make their business come back and make their family reconnect with them.

For a lawyer to be able to do anything 1) someone would have to pay for it 2) something illegal would have to be proven. Don't forget, the "Debbie Cook Fund" is gone. And I really don't think these two are up for another fight against the Machine.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Of course, we all have opinions about this and none of us know for sure what happened exactly. It's fun to speculate and I believe there are some good educated guesses here.

I believe Debbie and Wayne would have fared much better against Miscavige had they become ex-Scientolgists first, like Amy Scobee who wrote a book about the man and who worked right next to him for years. I believe I recall Amy stating she signed the same non-disclosure agreements as Debbie. Miscavige did nothing. He couldn't stand up against her truth.

It's a lot harder for the church to put the screws to you once you're not a believer. In my opinion, that's their biggest Achilles’ heel.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I believe Debbie and Wayne would have fared much better against Miscavige had they become ex-Scientolgists first, like Amy Scobee who wrote a book about the man and who worked right next to him for years.

Well, I'm sure that's true.

For one thing, you know going into it that you will be disconnected from people still in.

And their situation once again proves my point. People who leave staff: Never, ever, EVER get a job or go into a business where whether or not you are "in good standing" with the church affects your livelihood. You are almost as much the effect of COS if you do this than if you had stayed on staff.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
What happened at Int Base did not happen while an Officer of the Court looked on.

Do you really think that this time with legal counsel, and excellent legal council at that, such a shanghai would occur?

Whatever the secret agreement may be, the main Court may not be aware but certainly Debbies lawyer is aware and advised Debbie on it.

So you are seriously advocating the position that the Baumgartens went "Well we rogered DM but good and we have all these millions. Lets move far away from the family and friends to an island where we don't speak the language, have no idea what we are doing and where we have to jump through hoops to live and where the CofS could, if they wanted spread rumor upon rumor to get our residency messed with"

Sounds like awesome legal advice to me.
 

KissMyStats

Patron with Honors
Idk, even years ago the very very rare SO member who MAY have had money in the bank via commissions pretty much had to "donate" or turn it all back over to the cult via various means before they were allowed to leave, route out, etc.... Blowing would have been the only way to keep any of it and that's only if the SO member ran and never looked back.

Btw does any Ex here know of any SO member who left the cult with a fat bank account, via cult commissions or earnings? Ever? I've never heard anything remotely like it. Not saying it's never happened just I've read lots of stories and 100% are of being destitute upon leaving. I'd be curious if any one has ever encountered a SO member who left the cult ahead financially, the cult is designed to ensure no one who has involvement with it at any level comes out ahead or with more money than when they began.

I just think the controls were clamped too tight for anyone to stash away any money in the SO. Money gives a degree of freedom and thats the last thing in the world the cult wants a SO member to have - freedom or options. There's no way she could have any real money to her name without the cult being very aware of it. Even as the CO of flag she had no personal freedom - she couldn't run errands or stop by the bank on a whim. She was watched and monitored always, there no "alone" time permitted.

I think Debbie left the cult with exactly what they allowed her too - Wayne and the check for $50,000 - nothing more.

I agree. Just this month I saw a photo of two long term Flag SO members in the IAS mag. They had become Patrons and were all gussied up. Most likely they inherited it and were pressured to give it to the IAS. My husband knows of a few SO members who had money from inheritances and they were big time pressured to give it to the IAS. Common practice I'm sure.

Also, if you were secretly stashing money as an SO member, you would be walking around in fear of being found out on a sec check, your mail is monitored, no private PO Boxes allowed (this was true a few years ago, could have changed, but I doubt it) and so if someone got a statement from an investment firm showing their balance it would be found out about quick and they would be pressured to donate. There is ZERO privacy in that place. You would have to be very clever and sneaky, and somehow have it not come up in sec checks, etc. I think having a private stash in secret could be pulled off, but not without help from the outside (sounds like prison talk doesn't it) and able to not reveal in sec checks, etc.

I have also thought of the possibility that either she or her husband were left money by a relative, or that some rich friend of theirs who is an ex-Scn helped to fund them.

I personally can't wait to see the first You Tube video of Debbie grocery shopping in Guadelupe taken by a curious Anon ! More info will come out over time. I hope she spends her days writing a tell-all book and lurking on ESMB.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
As I said earlier, I have no idea what went down in the Cook/Baumgarten negotiations with the cult.

But this thread invites speculation without access to facts, so ....

Let's say I was cross-wise with the cult. Let's say I had a media spokesperson who, as they often do, speaks to the media on my behalf. Let's say I wanted to get a message out to ... the media! Let's say I told my media spokesperson what I wanted the media to print. Let's say I told my media spokesperson I was moving to ... Bumfuck in the Caribbean. Let's say my media person actually told the press what I said.

Let's say I then moved wherever the hell else I wanted to go.

:)

TG1
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
As far as we know she's still a Scientologist, still praying to Ron, and still crying about what's been done to her 'church'. I don't believe that she KO'd Miscavige and rode off into the sun with a few millions to play with. I'm thinking more along the lines of a pension, granted without any liability, as a gesture of 'good will'. No big victory, but she gets to eat.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
As I said earlier, I have no idea what went down in the Cook/Baumgarten negotiations with the cult.

But this thread invites speculation without access to facts, so ....

Let's say I was cross-wise with the cult. Let's say I had a media spokesperson who, as they often do, speaks to the media on my behalf. Let's say I wanted to get a message out to ... the media! Let's say I told my media spokesperson what I wanted the media to print. Let's say I told my media spokesperson I was moving to ... Bumfuck in the Caribbean. Let's say my media person actually told the press what I said.

Let's say I then moved wherever the hell else I wanted to go.

:)

TG1

well true - good speculation. But the ONLY ones who don;t get fooled are the CofS because they will, no speculation, spend the money to track her wherever she goes.

So apart from Ortega and us nobodies on here - what on earth would be the point? None of us are harassing here afaik.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
As far as we know she's still a Scientologist, still praying to Ron, and still crying about what's been done to her 'church'. I don't believe that she KO'd Miscavige and rode off into the sun with a few millions to play with. I'm thinking more along the lines of a pension, granted without any liability, as a gesture of 'good will'. No big victory, but she gets to eat.

I am sure that she has secured herself a better financial deal than she had. I am fairly sure that financially independent she is not.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Shades of Mayo, really.

IMO, Scn’s “Tipping Point” was in the early ‘80’s and while that was over 30 years ago, the dye is cast. I’m not negating the impact and importance of Anonymous and WWP or anyone else over all these years since.

In my view, Debbie of Arc never was the critical mass moment some Exes may hope for, nor the purifying touchstone most Indies probably seek…no one is, no one ever will be.

Exes ARE the Critical Mass…Their Voices, the Stories from their Hearts ARE the Gilded Golden Traces of Purifying Touchstones.

Scn’s and Indies will continue to do what I did…perhaps what many of us did…until they reach their own subtle to manifest personal WTF? HFS? OMG? moment…they’ll hold fast (cling) to the “Tech”, “know” that they are “Right”, be “certain” that El Ron is “Source” and secretly be scared shitless that they may not “Make It” in the “End”.

There’s a song by Eric Heatherly from the mid ‘60’s with some lyrics that just about sums up being an Scn for me:

Now, counting flowers on the wall,
That don't bother me at all.
Playing Solitaire till dawn,
With a deck of fifty-one.
Smoking cigarettes and watching Captain Kangaroo.
Now, don't tell me I've nothing to do.

Don't tell me I've nothing to do.


Peace.:coolwink:


Face:)
 
Shades of Mayo, really.

Whether or not Cooke profited from her settlement, David definitely didn't pocket a large wad of cash, nor did he get a chance to lead a "vacation life" in the aftermath of his settlement; more like he was trying to survive while avoiding continual harassment & violence from agents of the Co$. :omg:

But there are some rough similarities as you suggest in that both involved litigation resulting in settlements with resultant NDIs. Moreover, David did at one point reside on an island in the Caribbean, though not one noted at the time as a haven for the luxurious lifestyle. Still, David is a man for whom a simple lifestyle has much appeal and there is much to be said for being 'far from the madding crowd'.


Mark A. Baker
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
IMO, Scn’s “Tipping Point” was in the early ‘80’s and while that was over 30 years ago, the dye is cast. I’m not negating the impact and importance of Anonymous and WWP or anyone else over all these years since.

In my view, Debbie of Arc never was the critical mass moment some Exes may hope for, nor the purifying touchstone most Indies probably seek…no one is, no one ever will be.

Exes ARE the Critical Mass…Their Voices, the Stories from their Hearts ARE the Gilded Golden Traces of Purifying Touchstones.

Scn’s and Indies will continue to do what I did…perhaps what many of us did…until they reach their own subtle to manifest personal WTF? HFS? OMG? moment…they’ll hold fast (cling) to the “Tech”, “know” that they are “Right”, be “certain” that El Ron is “Source” and secretly be scared shitless that they may not “Make It” in the “End”.

There’s a song by Eric Heatherly from the mid ‘60’s with some lyrics that just about sums up being an Scn for me:

Now, counting flowers on the wall,
That don't bother me at all.
Playing Solitaire till dawn,
With a deck of fifty-one.
Smoking cigarettes and watching Captain Kangaroo.
Now, don't tell me I've nothing to do.

Don't tell me I've nothing to do.


Peace.:coolwink:


Face:)

I think you're very probably right. Long-timers who are still in must be the most mind-controlled people on the planet, so I'm not expecting too much from them. Most likely, the Cof$ will die of slowly losing blood, rather than any sudden collapse. People are leaving all the time I expect - quietly slipping away without any grand gestures, like most of us did. A sudden collapse would be great, but I don't see any reason to think it's going to happen soon.
 
I think you're very probably right. Long-timers who are still in must be the most mind-controlled people on the planet, so I'm not expecting too much from them. Most likely, the Cof$ will die of slowly losing blood, rather than any sudden collapse. People are leaving all the time I expect - quietly slipping away without any grand gestures, like most of us did. A sudden collapse would be great, but I don't see any reason to think it's going to happen soon.

Even I have considered leaving.

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon.
 
IMO, Scn’s “Tipping Point” was in the early ‘80’s and while that was over 30 years ago, the dye is cast. ...


Very true, Face. Personally I consider that I was very fortunate in my own fairly brief (2 year) involvement around that time.

It was definitely a time of flux where patterns & behaviors were changing rapidly throughout the church community. During my involvement I had an overwhelmingly positive set of experiences far from the mayhem of Sea Org control. Such relative freedom was vanishing at that time and rapidly became extinct during the early '80s.

It is true that there have always been abuses within organized scientology. Certainly these became worse since the development of the Sea Org in the mid-60s and the SO's increasingly 'effective' use as means of centralized institutional control. Nonetheless the process took a good 15 years to develop fully into the tyranny which controlled all scientology institutions and has been clearly manifest since the early '80s.

For me that point constitutes the 'tipping point'. Whatever benefits were to be found within the church prior to then, from that point on they were effectively diminished to the point of irrelevance and there was no going back within institutional scientology.


Mark A. Baker
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Just a passing thought, a bit tinfoily I admit, but if by chance there was some sort of deal brokered between the Cooks and CoS, I'd be pretty frikken careful where I landed, why some Island? Why down there? People myst-appear on foreign shores all the time, why not a nice chalet in Canada?
If I were them (and thankfully I am not), if there are any ties financial or other-wise, I'd be very, very, careful, ie. big dogs, a good armory, some close security etc. etc.
Just a passing thought like I said, speculate away, nobody really knows wtf is going on in their lives, really.

done.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Just a passing thought, a bit tinfoily I admit, but if by chance there was some sort of deal brokered between the Cooks and CoS, I'd be pretty frikken careful where I landed, why some Island?

As I was saying, I doubt there was a "deal". A deal implies input by both parties and an agreement that both are at least somewhat happy with. It's usually a meeting-halfway kind of compromise.

This, I am sure, wasn't a deal.

This was an ultimatum.

Somehow I doubt Debbie and Wayne got to pick where they were going to go.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Whether or not Cooke profited from her settlement, David definitely didn't pocket a large wad of cash, nor did he get a chance to lead a "vacation life" in the aftermath of his settlement; more like he was trying to survive while avoiding continual harassment & violence from agents of the Co$. :omg:

But there are some rough similarities as you suggest in that both involved litigation resulting in settlements with resultant NDIs. Moreover, David did at one point reside on an island in the Caribbean, though not one noted at the time as a haven for the luxurious lifestyle. Still, David is a man for whom a simple lifestyle has much appeal and there is much to be said for being 'far from the madding crowd'.

Times are different than they were in the Mayo days, though, so I'd expect different results. Also, I didn't intend it as a criticism of either party. I hope they're all happy.
 
Times are different than they were in the Mayo days, though, so I'd expect different results. Also, I didn't intend it as a criticism of either party. I hope they're all happy.

I didn't think you did, however a lot of people are confused about what happened with David in no small part thanks to years of lying by the Co$ and Rathbun's repeating of those lies since he has left direct involvement with the church.

As you said there are some similarities. I just wanted to point out a few of the differences for those reading the board who might be too quick to make assumptions.


Mark A. Baker
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
As I was saying, I doubt there was a "deal". A deal implies input by both parties and an agreement that both are at least somewhat happy with. It's usually a meeting-halfway kind of compromise.

This, I am sure, wasn't a deal.

This was an ultimatum.

Somehow I doubt Debbie and Wayne got to pick where they were going to go.

Oh ya think???
bullseye_target.jpg


There wasn't any 'deal' per-se, maybe a 'stfu' agreement so the whole bunch didn't start exposing the tunnel to the 'closet-of-skeletons' sort of thing, to me its just a bunch of cons all trying their best to cover their own asses while doing as much damage possible to each-other.... Look at the M&M pussy-footing around shite, they all have knives & nukes at each other's backs, this is LRon's creation at its finest imho.
:drama:

:drama:


:dance3:


Wooooooooo!
 
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