Debbie Cook is back on the internet.

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Here ya go BunnySkull

Steve Hall's unique journey in and out of Scientology Inc Part 1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymFxil70ryo

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ouTube-Channel&p=941759&viewfull=1#post941759

O Rly? Do tell!

I obviously know about Mike & Marty's evolution but I thought Steve was still the hard liner of the bunch. I remember him having a falling out and being quite nasty with Marty when Marty began writing about flaws with the tech & Hubbard about two years ago. Seemed he was torn between the KSW crew and the more liberal indies. (Though he did reject the nuts at Milestone 2 elevating him to a "founder" and using his name to promote the group, he still seemed to have some overall agreement with them.)

I'd like an update on Steve, he seemed to go quiet and drop off the radar (as least as far as I could tell).
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
I'm sure the settlement Debbie & Wayne signed with the cult only required them to disappear from view for a period of time until all the attention paid to her email & the reactions to it have died down. I don't know of any legal settlement ever approved by the courts that agreed to yank one's U.S. citizenship away from them. Perhaps, it may have been different for Wayne, who was born in NZ and naturalized in the U.S.

Debbie's new venture is home-based & not registered in Texas.

http://www.healthkick.info

https://mycpa.cpa.state.tx.us/coa/Index.html

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/debbie-baumgarten/95/167/472

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004247476874
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Cook Profitability Services:

http://lookup.t-mobile.com/web.php?...ofitabilityservices.com/&ut=nxd&ep=nxd&rank=1

http://debbiecookbaumgarten.com/

Found this from 2011 (had not seen it before): http://debbiecookbaumgarten.blogspot.com/

She is back on FB:

10455285_342240852594161_1401208768319831544_n.jpg



Debbie Baumgarten

I am glad she is doing good - She sure looks better.

I wish she would talk and not stop until the cult is shut down.

“A man is as dead as he can’t communicate. He is as alive as he can communicate.” - LRH - Dianetics 55!
Posted by Debbie Cook Baumgarten at 5:57 PM

TALK Debbie - TALK!!

This is the "after" photo 2&1/2 tears following her SP Declare. A picture like this says volumes without her having to open her mouth.
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron

Thanks for the link. I have somehow forgotten about Steve's Scientology-cult site.

Just for grins, I had to look to see how the Indie 500 list is coming along. Only 25 slots left, girls and boys! And it's only been up since Feb of 2010!

Wonder how many people on the list now wish they weren't.
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
I read earlier today that she lives in Austin now and no longer has her own company but works for someone else. Her Facebook page is new and she does look a lot better. I wouldn't be surprised if she started talking again. Her original email did a lot of damage.

Improved whistleblower laws have gone into effect now, alledgedly.
They had not, unfortunately in time for Bradley Manning and others.
I haven't done a lot of research on it, but I get the feeling Debbie would come out OK if she spoke out.
The political climate feels like the IRS is hungry, and the American public is pissed about $cn. Having tax exemption.

if Debbie was so lavishly paid off, then what is she doing here?

OK, I am over the cult. However, the motherfucking captain of Flag? Errrm, I mean EX CPT.

I wouldn't underestimate her.
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
I read earlier today that she lives in Austin now and no longer has her own company but works for someone else. Her Facebook page is new and she does look a lot better. I wouldn't be surprised if she started talking again. Her original email did a lot of damage.


This probably isn't adding much to the conversation. But, I remember only about six months ago Steve finding out some new facts about Hub that truly shocked him. At the time I remember thinking he had been out plenty long enough to know some of , what I considered basic facts. However Steve hadn't heard any of it.
He will be okay, it is a long road home... Especially as a lot of us know, after leaving the cult, you have no idea where home is.

i talked to him a little bit about Dean Stokes, back in the day when he still firmly believed DM was the devil in the details. Baby Steps.

I have tried, and tried again to get along with the indies. It never works out. Looking forward to the day when they all recover from the mind fuck.
 

Gib

Crusader
I guess we can keep having this argument so here goes -

Debbie did lots of bad shit - no argument.

She copped a lot of shit in return - no-one deserves the Hole, not even Deputy Malignant. Debbie was left broken, physically and mentally.

Her email did MAJOR damage to the cult and I believe it's still a major source of grief for the Runt Usuper.:thumbsup:

She finally got bought off but she'd already taken a lot of shit from the cult and still kept going - I'm sure she could've bailed earlier and gotten a reasonable amount but she didn't. She got international coverage and it was clear she was someone who'd been tortured under DM's rule.

I personally believe that Debbie deserves the "blood money" she got - she stood up very publicly and took on DM. She had a gruelling Fair Game campaign waged against her whilst she was physically VERY ill and I don't blame her for bailing once the price was right and she'd done just about all the damage she could do. What she copped for doing what she did was horrific. And I doubt that many folk realise that.

You may disagree with me.:biggrin:

I'm glad to see that she's looking well and is probably continuing on the road out that we all travel. Hell, look where Marty and Mike have come to, and Steve Hall. There were a lot of folk here that were bitching that they'd not changed and were going to be in lock-step with Hubbardspew for Eternity.
:omg:
Give her a chance and she may surprise us all.:yes:

I agree Scooter,

however, lest not forget the COS sued Debbie Cook for speaking out, for stating scientologists were not following KSW.

Debbie Cook did not sue the COS.

But, If I have my facts right, Debbie countered sued because of the COS sueing her, because the COS sued her, and thus the COS settled with her to keep her silent. And in return keep her story from being told FULLY. But, Debbie got out the word.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
OK I'll take this up because I believe you may be referring to me as being nasty, fair enough, but i will give my reasons for not backing Debbie.

It has been stated here and probably elsewhere that she took a lot of shit from the cult. I'll agree she did BUT she also received in her service a lot of preferential treatment that many others who were part of the cult did not receive such as bonuses, beauty parlor treatment and other things.

No one deserves what was meted out at Int Base.

However, their are those who were at Int Base who left without getting $50,000 tax free but left with nothing and no idea of where to go. Jeff Hawkins comes to mind and others.

As far as believing, when in, that it was the right thing and done on altruistic principles, though for many of us that was true, their are those for whom that just wouldn't be true and, to me, Debbie was one of them. I will explain.

Debbie was Captain of the FSO for over a decade. As Captain of the FSO she had to know what was going on behind the scenes. Those things that occurred behind the scenes were an RPF with deplorable conditions such as pregnant women being kept in a garage. This was not in Debbie's time period but I doubt if conditions improved under her watch. Many people mysteriously died at the Ft. Harrison, not only Lisa McPherson' but many others. One guy found boiled in a bathtub. These are just some of the things she would have had knowledge about, things far removed or inexplicable to the Greatest Good Doctrine.

Debbie, as close as I remember, testified she would have killed babies to leave the Int Base. If she would have done that to leave the Base then what would she have done to make her stat at the FSO by Thursday at 2 under the intense pressure that she must have been under to do so? How many times was Debbie removed from post at the FSO for not performing as expected?

It has been said, and I agree, that Debbie did a lot of damage with her email to the cult but was the the email truly intended to help victims of Scientology or to show DM she can be a force to be reckoned with so pay up? Do we really know Debbie's intentions for writing that email?

Being in Scientology for as long as she was and holding the position she had as well as knowing Dave as well as she did because she , herself, spent time in the Hole, KNEW it was a dangerous endeavor. Did she do it for altruistic purposes or because she really felt she had covered up a lot for Dave and deserved her Quid Pro Quo?

Then, it is speculation that she did, got paid off a second time for her performance on the stand and to be shut up quickly before she said more.

No, we don't know she did for sure but there is strong indication that she did. For one thing, I'm sure Ray Jeffrey would not have agreed to the court order without appeal if their wasn't sufficient pay for his effort. There are pictures on the net of she and Wayne on a beach somewhere smiling and happy not long after that case ended and other signs.

Does someone deserve the treatment at the Base? No.

Did Debbie work as Captain of the FSO and not know of the dirty and dark side of Scientology for more than a decade? I seriously doubt it.

Did Debbie write that email for those being abused in and out of the cult? I lean to no.

Did Debbie suffer more than others who went through the same conditions? No. In fact she got paid once that we know of and a second time that is quite probable. Whereas others received nothing went through the same or worse and left with no idea of where to go and most of them have little sympathy for their former church.

Am I being unfair towards Debbie? Maybe, but I have reasons not to believe she is "a good girl"



Yes, Scoots above is quite right and correct.

I find it a little disappointing, even not nice, some of the criticism and labels being leveled at her.

Yes, she did the job she did while CO at Flag . . . we all acted to do the job asked of us, even if only as FSMs, while in and we did it because at the time we believed it was right.

It is a little disingenuous to be nasty towards her for doing what she and we believed to be right when "wearing our hats" while in.

We, of course, are smarter now and are right to see the tragedy of the cult and its evil . . . but we should not be nasty to those who are still coming to the truth.

We should be grateful they have seen the light and welcome them to the club of "outies" and "exies."
I
And Debbie, as Scoots points out, has performed stellar service in the cause of blowing the whistle on the evil of the cult and helping to bring an end to it.

R
 
Thanks for the link. I have somehow forgotten about Steve's Scientology-cult site.

Just for grins, I had to look to see how the Indie 500 list is coming along. Only 25 slots left, girls and boys! And it's only been up since Feb of 2010!

Wonder how many people on the list now wish they weren't.
I am on that list, and honestly, no I am not a Scientologist of any kind. But at the time I signed up, I was maybe a little? I mostly wanted to stand in solidarity with my fellow abused and mislead souls to say fuck you David MsCavaige. You can not commit the crimes. I just wanted to show my support in any way for the exes and against the sociopath. I am still OK with that. Every little bit helps.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re-identifying as a cult member to think about the rights and wrongs about cult member activities in the past is only one perspective. It has it's limitations. If people cannot be nasty about nasty business, because they identify with it, then it could be that they need to "drill" acting and reacting and responding as a "normal" person, not as someone that they were in their past, or as someone they could have theoretically been in their past.

An example of over identifying with past identity in connection with the cult is when everyone in the cult is "off the hook" for everything because "it could have been me doing that" or because "I used to go along with those ideas". --everybody in there is "off the hook - except DM and LRH.

If 'someone' thinks Debbie Cook is an effing bitch, is she not a bitch because the someone used to be like that but isn't now? Or is it that she is an EB, and the 'someone' used to be an EB too?

Scoots might be right - I don't know, but it seems healthy to me that even if he is, at least some people have very negative responses to very negative shit - even if it was in the past.

I met Debbie when she was posted as Snr Int Sup at FSO and IIRC she was just off the RPF.

She'd been labelled a "tiger" and never to hold an exec post again IIRC - she was fairly subdued when she started with us OOTs in the Interneship.

However, I came to value her because she was a bit of a hard-nosed bitch - with a compassionate inside. She actually helped me and several other internes "handle" situations that other, "Standard Tehc" sup.s would've sent us to Ethics for.

The Snr Interne Sup post carried a fair bit of a target on one's chest as it was one of the places that Flag major stats came from and also it provided the majority of the auditors for the HGCs. It also carried upholding the "reputation" of FSO as the place for training in Hubbardspew. It wasn't an easy post but Debbie didn't just shove the crap down the line to us lowly internes. She took it and held her own position well.

That she later did stuff like the Maria Pia Gardini cycle saddens me - but I also understand the forces that morph a decent person into a mini-Hubbard monster now so I've more compassion for that particular incarnation of Debbie. That she knew Maria well was from her time as Snr Int Sup and Maria obviously trusted her because of the Debbie-that-was.

Someone else has questioned whether Debbie was being altruistic or simply vengeful with her bombshell email. From the info I have (and no, you'll have to wait for my memoirs before I spill the details:biggrin:) it was the former.

She put herself into the firing line because she's a decent person. Despite what crap she dished out in her various incarnations as a cold bitch SO exec.


Your mileage may vary:coolwink:
 

RogerB

Crusader
OK I'll take this up because I believe you may be referring to me as being nasty, fair enough, but i will give my reasons for not backing Debbie.

It has been stated here and probably elsewhere that she took a lot of shit from the cult. I'll agree she did BUT she also received in her service a lot of preferential treatment that many others who were part of the cult did not receive such as bonuses, beauty parlor treatment and other things.

No one deserves what was meted out at Int Base.

However, their are those who were at Int Base who left without getting $50,000 tax free but left with nothing and no idea of where to go. Jeff Hawkins comes to mind and others.

As far as believing, when in, that it was the right thing and done on altruistic principles, though for many of us that was true, their are those for whom that just wouldn't be true and, to me, Debbie was one of them. I will explain.

Debbie was Captain of the FSO for over a decade. As Captain of the FSO she had to know what was going on behind the scenes. Those things that occurred behind the scenes were an RPF with deplorable conditions such as pregnant women being kept in a garage. This was not in Debbie's time period but I doubt if conditions improved under her watch. Many people mysteriously died at the Ft. Harrison, not only Lisa McPherson' but many others. One guy found boiled in a bathtub. These are just some of the things she would have had knowledge about, things far removed or inexplicable to the Greatest Good Doctrine.

Debbie, as close as I remember, testified she would have killed babies to leave the Int Base. If she would have done that to leave the Base then what would she have done to make her stat at the FSO by Thursday at 2 under the intense pressure that she must have been under to do so? How many times was Debbie removed from post at the FSO for not performing as expected?

It has been said, and I agree, that Debbie did a lot of damage with her email to the cult but was the the email truly intended to help victims of Scientology or to show DM she can be a force to be reckoned with so pay up? Do we really know Debbie's intentions for writing that email?

Being in Scientology for as long as she was and holding the position she had as well as knowing Dave as well as she did because she , herself, spent time in the Hole, KNEW it was a dangerous endeavor. Did she do it for altruistic purposes or because she really felt she had covered up a lot for Dave and deserved her Quid Pro Quo?

Then, it is speculation that she did, got paid off a second time for her performance on the stand and to be shut up quickly before she said more.

No, we don't know she did for sure but there is strong indication that she did. For one thing, I'm sure Ray Jeffrey would not have agreed to the court order without appeal if their wasn't sufficient pay for his effort. There are pictures on the net of she and Wayne on a beach somewhere smiling and happy not long after that case ended and other signs.

Does someone deserve the treatment at the Base? No.

Did Debbie work as Captain of the FSO and not know of the dirty and dark side of Scientology for more than a decade? I seriously doubt it.

Did Debbie write that email for those being abused in and out of the cult? I lean to no.

Did Debbie suffer more than others who went through the same conditions? No. In fact she got paid once that we know of and a second time that is quite probable. Whereas others received nothing went through the same or worse and left with no idea of where to go and most of them have little sympathy for their former church.

Am I being unfair towards Debbie? Maybe, but I have reasons not to believe she is "a good girl"

Free . . .

I am not in disagreement with all the factual points you make above. Indeed, I respect you for being insightful enough to make them.

Where we diverge is on our response to all the facts . . . and there is neither right nor wrong in this: just a matter of one's own personal preference on how, in my case, I wish to live my life.

Personally, I am into forgiveness; and when I see a person has done things to set past errors or naughties right, then I forgive. I find that helps me heal and helps me exist as a happier person . . . . so, I might even be selfish in that :melodramatic:

But, in actuality, I have found it helps the other person too . . . but the other side of the coin is that I can be a real bitch to those who won't come clean and who insist on running their shit on others. Those I will happily "burn at the stake."

Rog
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation


Debbie Cook is out of the cult now and is (finally) running her own life her way ... she doesn't have to "come clean" (that's a culty attitude if ever I've heard one) and she doesn't have to "make amends" ... she doesn't have to do a damn thing unless she wants to, that's what happens when a person really does leave the cult behind, they start to take care of business, their own business ... and cease to give a toss about how others view them.

I wish her luck as I wish anyone that escapes the insanity that is scientology.

:)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


Debbie Cook is out of the cult now and is (finally) running her own life her way ... she doesn't have to "come clean" (that's a culty attitude if ever I've heard one) and she doesn't have to "make amends" ... she doesn't have to do a damn thing unless she wants to, that's what happens when a person really does leave the cult behind, they start to take care of business, their own business ... and cease to give a toss about how others view them.

I wish her luck as I wish anyone that escapes the insanity that is scientology.

:)


Yeah, but....

If she doesn't have to make amends, that means that we don't get to give her a smug condescending look as she pathetically hands over her clipboard-attached Liability Formula, begging us to sign it. And we don't get to look at her "indicators" and grill her if she feels that she really handled her out-ethics and feels that she made up the damage, before we inform her if we deign to sign it.

And we don't get to see her grovel in guilty gratitude after we hand her sad little clipboard back to her with our precious approving signature and say something really hideously stupid like "Welcome back to the group of in-ethics Scientologists who working for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics."

Jesus, someone please tell me that I wasn't really in that majorly fucked up, dorked out cult. LOLOLOLOL
 

Jag

Patron
There is no justification for being a staff member and doing horrible things to other people. I was on staff a couple of times (Cl V Orgs) - never finished my contracts because I couldn't stand the control BS and out-tech. One very high profile org I was on staff at did some horrible things. I wrote up KR after KR but the ED was just like the cult leader, evil. I kept getting attacked mercilessly, so I left.

I have a friend who knows the lawyer that helps some of the sea org when they leave. Debbie did get a settlement (no idea how much) after the court appearance debacle. When the high profile sea org leave, and the church is paying out some serious cash, part of the settlement includes leaving the country for a period of time - Debbie went to Mexico.

I very much admire Mike & Marty for not taking a settlement and doing what they are doing. The cult needs to be attacked and destroyed.
 


Debbie Cook is out of the cult now and is (finally) running her own life her way ... she doesn't have to "come clean" (that's a culty attitude if ever I've heard one) and she doesn't have to "make amends" ... she doesn't have to do a damn thing unless she wants to, that's what happens when a person really does leave the cult behind, they start to take care of business, their own business ... and cease to give a toss about how others view them.

I wish her luck as I wish anyone that escapes the insanity that is scientology.

:)

especially so as the little i've seen of her art looks good...
 
Yeah, but....

If she doesn't have to make amends, that means that we don't get to give her a smug condescending look as she pathetically hands over her clipboard-attached Liability Formula, begging us to sign it. And we don't get to look at her "indicators" and grill her if she feels that she really handled her out-ethics and feels that she made up the damage, before we inform her if we deign to sign it.

And we don't get to see her grovel in guilty gratitude after we hand her sad little clipboard back to her with our precious approving signature and say something really hideously stupid like "Welcome back to the group of in-ethics Scientologists who working for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics."

Jesus, someone please tell me that I wasn't really in that majorly fucked up, dorked out cult. LOLOLOLOL

gruesome...

did you actually live out that scenario?

i never had to sign anyone's clipboard. it just really wasn't a bad scene at fcdc when i was there

and i still had to walk away from it
 

TKN

New Member
I tend to be incredibly sympathetic to Debbie Cook. She was as much victim as perpertrator, in my eyes. She's now years out, and everyone here has observed how different people realize at different stages what they did was wrong. Then they also hold some belief as "that wasn't wrong, that was okay due to saving humanity/eternity/planet". Then, years after, realize and apologize for something they previously didn't.

She did something gutsy (her letter, media interviews, the way she tried to handle the whole thing). She did more than a few things that took courage. It still feels like sort of not enough, and I'm sure it does to those who were crush-regged with her participation or oversight. She has time to come around.

Apologizing, making amends with specific people, and telling her entire story so that others can know what happened to them - that would be the best anyone can do. Of course, she signed away her rights to do that.

At the time, I seem to remember a copy of a letter she wrote to DM or someone, warning them not to come after her due to the knowledge she has that could hurt them (I'm looking for it, don't remember where it is). At the time most of us understood that to be knowledge about how DM was Lisa McPherson's CS, or something else similar regarding Lisa's case.

http://www.lisafiles.com/police/statements/3673.html

It's pretty obvious she lied under oath to protect DM, or others. Any gag order or settlement couldn't preclude her from telling the truth under oath, so I'd guess the only way to get the truth from her is if she's subpoenaed in another court case. In some way, that seems like the best way for her to make amends within the parameter of the settlement she signed. It's a pretty tough and unusual situation for someone to be in.
 
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