ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
I was in.
And I call bullshit.
<snip>
What do you really think?
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I was in.
And I call bullshit.
<snip>
And in instances such as this, if you are a "never in" then you really have no business looking down your nose at Debbie or anyone else who has come out of $cientology. You really just have no idea what you're talking about.
..snippity
You were never a member of the Khemer Rouge, and don't know what pressures and "mind control" such people were subjected to, so you can't judge..
...snappity...
I was there and saw this and I didn't see any mind control, so I feel like this shouldn't be on your list. I don't know what you're talking about. It was a good time! Hey sista, Go sista! Soul sista, Flow sista!
edit: I'm so sorry, this is so embarrassing. I meant the movie "Moulin Rouge"
She may not look at the internet - that implant runs deep - so she doesn't think anyone else does.
Do tell BunnySkull - how do I get one of these websites...seriously - I need one. I really would like to know. :wink2:
My interest isn't in Debbie Cook (or anyone else specifically) ... I just don't want to see ESMB becoming too scary (for want of a better word) for those new or just peeking because I remember when I first did so myself. I'm no shrinking violet but it took me 8 months to join and post.
I love the fiery post that CommunicatorIC just made but I'm trying to imagine someone new who may also have done some pretty shite things as a scientologist reading here.
Many of us were "lucky enough" not to have held posts that made much (if any) difference (I was one of them) but some of the people that held the nasty "exec" posts (recruited people, pulled in the money and slammed us around with "ethics" tek) effectively made our lives easier at the time (less beans and rice when the gross income was up) and were often pretty strong willed, bright and fiery characters despite being under cult influence at the time.
I would like it if the Debbie Cooks of the world posted here (she's gagged I know) but they won't if they see how they'll be treated. There must be a lot of people out there reading here and thinking "pass, I really don't need that" ... and it's a shame because the insights they have into the cult could add a whole new dimension and it would help them to move on at the same time and I have no problem with people who have been dickheads in the past moving on in whatever way they see fit.
It isn't above "forgiveness" ... though I have no problem with forgiving people (and myself) when and where it's an issue, it's about making people who are leaving or have left the cult feel welcome here whether they've been shits or not.
*snip*
"Why you Namby Pamby panty waist dilettante! We'd rather have you dead than incapable."
Pardon the inaccurate quote, haven't read that piece of garbage in decades, but I can instantly recall that much. lol
You didn't push that at all? Or word clear anyone on it?
Maybe that could be a new coined word; We'ed.
Imagine a movie about We'ed's who come to make other's think like them! I wonder if it's ever happened? Maybe they look like Dandelions.
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I don't think a new person out would mind hearing talk like this.
My interest isn't in Debbie Cook (or anyone else specifically) ... I just don't want to see ESMB becoming too scary (for want of a better word) for those new or just peeking because I remember when I first did so myself. I'm no shrinking violet but it took me 8 months to join and post.
I love the fiery post that CommunicatorIC just made but I'm trying to imagine someone new who may also have done some pretty shite things as a scientologist reading here.
Many of us were "lucky enough" not to have held posts that made much (if any) difference (I was one of them) but some of the people that held the nasty "exec" posts (recruited people, pulled in the money and slammed us around with "ethics" tek) effectively made our lives easier at the time (less beans and rice when the gross income was up) and were often pretty strong willed, bright and fiery characters despite being under cult influence at the time.
I would like it if the Debbie Cooks of the world posted here (she's gagged I know) but they won't if they see how they'll be treated. There must be a lot of people out there reading here and thinking "pass, I really don't need that" ... and it's a shame because the insights they have into the cult could add a whole new dimension and it would help them to move on at the same time and I have no problem with people who have been dickheads in the past moving on in whatever way they see fit.
It isn't above "forgiveness" ... though I have no problem with forgiving people (and myself) when and where it's an issue (and if I want to), it's about making people who are leaving or have left the cult feel welcome here whether they've been shits or not.
Great post Trouble. I think what we have here though is a clash between two different forms of "right" - the right of people who have been abused by the cult to be able to let off steam about it, and the right you describe above - that of those who may have participated in the abuse but not want out, to find a safe environment in which to look afresh in what they were involved in and their own culpability.
There probably isn't an easy answer to it, but if it came to a choice, my sympathies would be with the people who were kicked around rather than the kickers, simply because I can't imagine this board working any other way.
Just my own, very personal point of view. I still hate the cult and all others like it, but I can't hold a grudge against those who, like me, went into it thinking they were changing the world for the better.
After I first got out of this toxic cult, I began to read the Spandau Prison diary of Albert Speer. That set the tone for my next few years as it made me see that this guy had been deluded like me into thinking that he was part of a great movement that was going to reform the world into something amazingly good.
Seeing how his point of view changed over the years he spent in prison was a huge eye-opener for me. It took him an age to really understand what he'd been part of and it was fascinating to read - I'm sure it accelerated my own decompression from Co$ enormously.
Because of that, I really only wish the best for anyone who comes out of the cult - hell, I'd love to chat to Deputy Malignant some day after the dust has settled. Not too sure I'd be able to chat to the Fat Fraud Hisself without wanting to inflict serious bodily harm, tho'.
And I'm sure some of the folk who've personally screwed me over big-time I doubt I could chat even socially to - I'm only human too, not trying to say I'm a saint.
I don't condone what Debbie did, but I am sick of folk second-guessing her. I knew her before she became the FSO Captain and apparently went into SO supa-bitch mode - she's a nice person and I'm sad that she turned into a typical SO exec.. I personally refused to "climb the Org Board" myself because, early on in my cult "career," I saw what sort of arseholes my friends turned into when they did that.
It never absolves responsibility for their subsequent evil actions - I don't buy the "Nuremberg defence" at all. But there's a hell of a lot of good folk who've been turned into total turds by this cult.
And the only way I see most of them ever able to face up to that is quietly decompressing and slowly realising the truth about their lives. Turning them into lightning rods for all of "our" upsets with the crap "we" lived IMO does nothing good for any of "us."
Just my own, very personal point of view. I still hate the cult and all others like it, but I can't hold a grudge against those who, like me, went into it thinking they were changing the world for the better.
What is disappointing on this thread is the ranting and venting that lumps on Debbie ALL the crimes of the cult as though she personally had been guilty of the shit OSA pulls or the beatings meted out by Miscavage . . . .
Pretty stupid A=a=A, no?
Debbie did what she did . . . not what others in the cult did.
If you are going to be judgmental judge her for her actions, not some one else's or the cult's total crimes.
What is not being spoken here is that there are also many good people doing or who have done honest and decent service in the cult . . . deluded yes, but not committing crimes or abuses.
Time to differentiate and deal with truth: not deluded "they are all . . . " type think.
RogerB