Debbie Cook responds to SP times (Tampa Bay Times)

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Back to the subject of "Debbie Cook responds to SP Times"; how many here believe that Debbie wrote the response? Doesn't it read a lot like a typical Sci-lawyer PR piece?

I actually think she wrote it.

If she had caved in to COS, she would have written something where she totally backpedaled on everything she said.

Think Vicky Aznaran or Minton/Brooks.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
And before that

Bill Franks and Alan Walter

And before that

John McMaster

And before that

Jack Horner

And along the way A.E. Van Vogt, Julia Salmon, Wing and Smokey Angel, Nibs, many more....

Debbie Cook has the internet.

Even my friends who are OT 7 & 8 are on line daily.

When John McMaster walked away in 1970, snail mail and all the Central Files addresses on the globe, would not have created this immediate a sensation.

. . . <snip> . . .

Then there's Joseph Augustus Winter, M.D., who warned of the axiomatic flaws in the tech and the dangers of its application within an increasingly totalitarian environment. That was in 1951.

But, now, as you say . . .

oh-fuck-the-internet-is-here.jpg


. . . Debbie is still to fully cognite on the level of support she has yet to access, especially if she has DOX and is prepared to use them. Its time now Scientology was subject to a good old fashioned, sans lube, forensic audit, wog style. The cult has had enough warnings.
 
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Feral

Rogue male
Even though I don't agree with your view on the technology, I do agree with you on this one.

There will never be internal reformation of the church of scientology until the FBI or some other law enforcement agency steps in and makes some arrests.

Even if tomorrow morning Mark Yager, Guillame Lesevre and Norman Starkey would all leave at once and joined Debbie and Marty, the C. of S. would continue under the rule of DM and teh majority of the parishionners would say "Ah those bastards THEY were the SP's...".

We tend to forget history: when David Mayo left he was much more powerful than Debbie ever was. He was the Snr C/S Int under LRH. When Vicky Azanaran left, she was IG. Jesse Prince, Gleeson, Robertson, the powerful Mission Holders: nothing has changed for the C. of S.

Reformation will occur, if ever, after law enforcement steps in. That would be enough of a shock to get parishionners to change their mind.

SD

See my bolded.

I think the recently increased frequency of departures has got to impinge on even the most solid of the faithful.

Sort of like water eroding a dam wall in a flood, eventually the key rocks get washed out and down it comes.
 
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chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
Chuck, I think you are closest to the truth on this. Debbie seems like such a devout scieno and should therefore believe that a correctly done Comm Ev would not only exonerate her but bring about real change in the cos.

How many of us ex-scios began our trip out with similarly well-thought out KR's? (which were ignored)

It would be interesting to know what sequence of events over the past year brought Debbie to the point of writing The Letter. The Letter didn't simply pop up, she was provoked.

BooJum,

I've been doing my superficial survey of who quit Debbie, and as of 6 days after her email, she's down to only 3 of the 12 friends I handpicked on Monday, for my superficial survey

The 3 of the 12 still supporting her, one's a public, one's an old Lisa McPherson business teammate who was also employed by Benetta Slaughter, and the third still Debbie's friend is an old ex FSO top ranking staffer.

This led me to seek out MORE people who might still NOT have buckled to the pressure (the spreading word on Facebook by the likes of Jojo Albert and the official members themselves spreading the word that Debbie's a "bad girl") to un-friend Debbie.

I found that ex staff, I found 3 other ex FSO staff who have so far NOT un-friended Debbie, and 1 very famous ex Sea Org high ranking officer who's not unfriended Debbie, and a famous CLO WUS much liked ex exec who has still not unfriended Debbie.

It seems the "know best" ex Sea Org members are the majority of the people who still have NOT buckled to pressure to unfriend Debbie, of my additional search for who is NOT unfriending her.

And 3 of the 5 people I've found who are still her friends, knew her pretty well, as they were FSO staffers during her time at the FSO!
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
With all due respect to Debbie, she needs to wake up.. she's delusional if she thinks she's going to make any constructive changes in the cult under Miscavige, or see's a future for herself in the cult.

Ex-Scio Skip Press said it best....

"THERE IS NO TECH. It's all made up by Hubbard or stolen from other places. Dianetics is nothing more than abreaction that was developed by Freud and Breuer and abandoned. Debbie Cook is doing what ALL former high-ranking Scientologists do upon leaving.

When they reach out to other Scientologists, they make sure to state their "ranking" such as what OT levels they finished, certificates they gained, ranks they held in the Sea Org. That's a way of convincing themselves that - as in Cook's case - they WASTED decades of their lives on b.s. and they're trying to make it OK in their mind.

Follow LRH? You mean, the "super intellect" who died in a trailer in Creston, CA screaming at unseen disembodied space alien "body thetans" he thought were attacking him? Debbie Cook ,- this is your life."

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/01/scientology_coo.php
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
Even though I don't agree with your view on the technology, I do agree with you on this one.

There will never be internal reformation of the church of scientology until the FBI or some other law enforcement agency steps in and makes some arrests.

Even if tomorrow morning Mark Yager, Guillame Lesevre and Norman Starkey would all leave at once and joined Debbie and Marty, the C. of S. would continue under the rule of DM and teh majority of the parishionners would say "Ah those bastards THEY were the SP's...".

We tend to forget history: when David Mayo left he was much more powerful than Debbie ever was. He was the Snr C/S Int under LRH. When Vicky Azanaran left, she was IG. Jesse Prince, Gleeson, Robertson, the powerful Mission Holders: nothing has changed for the C. of S.

Reformation will occur, if ever, after law enforcement steps in. That would be enough of a shock to get parishionners to change their mind.

SD

Hubbard's totalitarian system protects them. If you know the tech, it will protect you! It protects them from even taking serious notice of any valid criticism, and there is NO valid criticism they allow through Hubbard's totalitarian filter system.

One of the reasons dogmatic groups are so hard to penetrate.

It's Hubbard's tech that is protecting them, making the personalities the "who's" as well as the scapegoats, and NEVER is the "tech" allowed to be criticized.

Hubbard's fiction turned into reality as church policies and his concepts, he's proofed his writing output from any editors or critics. I guess that's what we get from letting a mediocre fiction writer who hated editors have his way with his religious scriptures forcing his followers NOT ever criticize his "tech" and "policy!"
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
actually there have been several very real reforms. numerous gross and egregious practices such as telling people auditing cures cancer were stopped. and there have been many more merely cosmetic changes most notably the fair game cancellation which didn't cancel fair game.

but the most needed reforms are unlikely. they are too well cloaked and like prisoners of war tied to the front of a tank they are sheilded by the goodhearted decent people who are the majority

the powerless deceived majority
Interesting point. There was another reform that comes to mind. When Anonymous started leaking all of the lectures online, I remember them taking down any lectures that involved Marcab or any sort of space opera but accepting that Xenu was going to be leaked. Some of these space opera references appear to be taken out of current set of basics etc.

They stopped putting starch and iodine on the towels on the purif to do the purple ooze magic trick.

Unfortunately, none of the things that matter were actually reformed. Disconnection, fair game, forced abortions.
 

Pooks

MERCHANT OF CHAOS
Debbie's playing her cards real close to her chest, giving us all a chance to speculate on what she's actually up to and how well planned out this move is.

You don't hold the post of CO FSO for 17 years without knowing how to play Miscavige and the Scn game.

I got lots of popcorn.

Here's to hoping she doesn't cave in.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
There'll be what the stock brokers call a dead cat bounce. A lot of aging Scientologists will feel a great resurgence of hope and enthusiasm when DM falls, and they will make a lot of very long blog entries, and maybe go as far as holding some exciting conferences in nice locations.

I love the expression "dead cat bounce." Always have.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Back to the subject of "Debbie Cook responds to SP Times"; how many here believe that Debbie wrote the response? Doesn't it read a lot like a typical Sci-lawyer PR piece?

I am pretty sure Debbie wrote it. She has played it precisely as LRH requested and has used ethics gradients on DM. She has requested that Scientologists follow LRH policy. She has not retracted ONE WORD.
Then she adds some PR fluff in the last paragraph. Let's see OSA try to refute THAT!

Debbie is no dummy, neither is she naive. She KNOWS she has passed the point of no return as a Scientologist in good standing in DM's regime. But she has certainly held her ground as a defender of standard LRH tech.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Debbie's playing her cards real close to her chest, giving us all a chance to speculate on what she's actually up to and how well planned out this move is.

You don't hold the post of CO FSO for 17 years without knowing how to play Miscavige and the Scn game.

I got lots of popcorn.

Here's to hoping she doesn't cave in.

^^^^^what she said^^^^^^

Absoluetly!

I think this whole thing is meticulously planned. She is after Miscavige and she may well take him out. I certainly hope so.

:drama:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Interesting point. There was another reform that comes to mind. When Anonymous started leaking all of the lectures online, I remember them taking down any lectures that involved Marcab or any sort of space opera but accepting that Xenu was going to be leaked. Some of these space opera references appear to be taken out of current set of basics etc.

They stopped putting starch and iodine on the towels on the purif to do the purple ooze magic trick.

Unfortunately, none of the things that matter were actually reformed. Disconnection, fair game, forced abortions.

Don't forget fraud, bait and switch, psychological manipulation, exploitation, and abuse by way of a system of intimate mental probing and conditioning, also known as "Hubbard Guidance" and the "Grade Chart."

Scientology's game has been to make things so bad, that by making them slightly less bad, we are supposed to be relieved. Tighten the screws, loosen the screws, tighten the screws, loosen the screws, etc.

Disconnection and Fair Game extend logically from Hubbard's earliest writings, going back to his Tone Scale writings of 1951. The first half of Fair Game is trick and lie to.

Miscavige has tightened the screws and Debbie Cook wants them loosened slightly.

And it's natural to be relieved when the screws are loosened.

I'd feel more confident in the demise of Scientology if predictions similar to the ones now being made had not been made in the 1980s and the 1990s. Realistically, if Scientology really does have billions of dollars of accumulating interest in foreign bank accounts, and a collection of interlocking international corporate entities, it can go on existing with 5,000 members very easily. How many people does it take to run the mafia?

Miscavige knows that this is the monument-building phase of Scientology, and that's mainly what he's doing, with Scientologists being the caretakers of the monuments. It takes money to ensure preservation of monuments in perpetuity.

Miscavige also knows that Hubbard lied when he told Scientologists that there were lots of OT levels above the already existing ones and, more than anything, the missing piece, resulting from the absent upper upper OT levels, is what is perplexing and demoralizing Scientologists.

Apparently, Debbie still believes that these upper upper OT levels exist, and hasn't grokked concerning Hubbard's "real goal" of establishing an LRH fan club that will care for his monuments and preserve and protect his name and "image."

In the meantime, Scientology still has a big front door and a big back door and, while its orgs may not be crowded, and some even empty, it continues to snag new people here and there, and to "run them through the Org."

If the obnoxious Miscavige is replaced with a charming new leader, and this charming new leader somehow finds - or concocts - a bunch of upper upper OT levels "from LRH," and makes a convincing show of it, who knows?

I mean, the hard part has already been done, including bringing the USA IRS to submission, and that happened eight years after Hubbard's death, at a time when, by many predictions, Scientology should have been fading into obscurity.

Even if the institution of Scientology, and its corporations and bank accounts were to magically disappear tomorrow, there would still be plenty of "walking wounded" to deal with. But that institution is not likely to disappear any time soon.

And, speaking of walking wounded, Independent-Scientology Hubbard-fan-club member #1, Marty Rathbun, will be coming out with his book in a few months so, as depressing as this post may have been - sorry about that - there is some comic relief in sight.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Nope. The FBI raid occurred in July 1977. The GO was disbanded in 1983 per that Wikipedia article. As I remember it, it got shredded around 1982 (months and months of a large truck taking shredded GOWW issues from the Manor to the concrete slab at Saint Hill where the incinerator was) and there was really nothing visible at org level for a year or so before OSA got announced.

Paul

Correct. It was after MSH and the rest of the "Seven" were found guilty of the crimes proven partly as a result of the raid (the other part of the proven guilt was Michael Meisner splitting from his protectors in the church to turn informer after their typical abuse of him as a "risk," etc., etc.)

As told to me by the guy who supervised the FBI raid in LA, "they (the FBI) had all they needed to prosecute the case before the raid."

I was disgusted in around late '81 when at FSO for more NOTs etc., to be hearing some of the younger SO types referring to MSH and the GO as a bunch of criminals . . . at that time those who had GO connection were being sec-checked to death, with the full killing of the GO and take over as sole management of the Cof$ by the midget's gang in '82 but nothing on public lines of this till '83.

R
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
BooJum,

I've been doing my superficial survey of who quit Debbie, and as of 6 days after her email, she's down to only 3 of the 12 friends I handpicked on Monday, for my superficial survey

The 3 of the 12 still supporting her, one's a public, one's an old Lisa McPherson business teammate who was also employed by Benetta Slaughter, and the third still Debbie's friend is an old ex FSO top ranking staffer.

This led me to seek out MORE people who might still NOT have buckled to the pressure (the spreading word on Facebook by the likes of Jojo Albert and the official members themselves spreading the word that Debbie's a "bad girl") to un-friend Debbie.

I found that ex staff, I found 3 other ex FSO staff who have so far NOT un-friended Debbie, and 1 very famous ex Sea Org high ranking officer who's not unfriended Debbie, and a famous CLO WUS much liked ex exec who has still not unfriended Debbie.

It seems the "know best" ex Sea Org members are the majority of the people who still have NOT buckled to pressure to unfriend Debbie, of my additional search for who is NOT unfriending her.

And 3 of the 5 people I've found who are still her friends, knew her pretty well, as they were FSO staffers during her time at the FSO!

Chuckles

That is a good little marker you have put in place and thanks for the review of those who are maintaining a line.

I wonder - in addition - how many of those still connected are people who don't check facebook very much. the reason I ask is that in reading some of the "in" peoples' walls they seemed mainly concerned with exuding how "on source" they were and that seems to get very boring after a while. After all Scientologists are like the people in the uSSR - always afraid to commit to something publicly for fear that the prevailing rules will change later and - off to the camps...
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Snip:

"27. Goodthink

"What was she like, your wife?" said Julia.

"She was - the newspeak word goodthinkful - meaning naturally orthodox, incapable of thinking a bad thought. She had not a thought in her head that was not a slogan, and there was no imbecility, absolutely none that she was not capable of swallowing if the Party handed it out to her." 'The human sound-track' he nicknamed her in his own mind....

The man with the strident voice was still talking remorselessly away. He held some important post in the FICTION DEPARTMENT. It was just a noise, a quack-quack-quacking. Every word of it was pure orthodoxy, pure Ingsoc. This was not a real human being but some kind of dummy. It was not the man's brain that was speaking, it was his larynx. The stuff that was coming out of him consisted of words, but it was not speech in the true sense: it was noise uttered in unconsciousness, like the quacking of a duck....

"There is a word in Newspeak" said Syme, "I don't know whether you know it: duckspeak, to quack like a duck. It is one of those interesting words that have two contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it is abuse; applied to someone you agree with, it is praise."...

---Orwell, 1984

http://www.orwelltoday.com/goodthink.shtml

In Scientology, anything that is not Goodthinkful is untrue, and everything that is Goodthinkful is true.

Many many many cultists will be making special efforts to demonstrate Goodthinkfulness just now.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
In Scientology, anything that is not Goodthinkful is untrue, and everything that is Goodthinkful is true.

Many many many cultists will be making special efforts to demonstrate Goodthinkfulness just now.


You have captured it so perfectly!
 

Telepathetic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Seems to me she is playing a masterful hand in all of this :biggrin:

How can the innies fault her based on that email? :no:

Yet, she is on course to bring significant changes to the cult . . . . even if those changes are only getting innies sticking to "standard tech" and refusing to cough up $$$'s and getting pissed at abuse and leaving.

Yum, Yum.

I like this girl more and more

RogerB

Roger I tend to agree with you Roger. Others are questioning whether she has been handled by OSA but, she is still, in her response to the news paper, insisting on reform; unless that is what OSA, and the Tiny Tyrant, want, it would otherwise seem to me that she is playing this, as you said, masterfully.

Scientology is in the news again. There is conflict! Sure she's still a deluded and fanatical Scilon but, I don't give a shit so long as there is dissension, any dissension in the ranks!

I want those goddamn Orgs closed, especially where my kids work, as I did for many years, as slaves for pennies an hour while that mother-fucking-Tom Cruise-cock sucking midget lives like a king.

Let the fucking bombs keep falling on that miserable abomination that calls itself a church!

Peace brother,

TP
 

Veda

Sponsor
Correct. It was after MSH and the rest of the "Seven" were found guilty of the crimes proven partly as a result of the raid (the other part of the proven guilt was Michael Meisner splitting from his protectors in the church to turn informer after their typical abuse of him as a "risk," etc., etc.)

As told to me by the guy who supervised the FBI raid in LA, "they (the FBI) had all they needed to prosecute the case before the raid."

I was disgusted in around late '81 when at FSO for more NOTs etc., to be hearing some of the younger SO types referring to MSH and the GO as a bunch of criminals . . . at that time those who had GO connection were being sec-checked to death, with the full killing of the GO and take over as sole management of the Cof$ by the midget's gang in '82 but nothing on public lines of this till '83.

R

The irony of it is that Mary Sue was a criminal, as was her co-conspirator husband. The same husband who issued the order to place the CMO - Commodore's Messenger Organization - over the G.O., effectively firing his wife from the top position without saying a word to her.

In the 1970s, L. Ron Hubbard was, secretly, the boss of the G.O. and, then, after the fit hit the sham, placed the CMO over the G.O., and secretly ran the CMO. There was no takeover in 1981, and there was none in 1982. It was same person running things from behind the scenes. Whenever Hubbard "lost it" is vague, but he hadn't "lost it" yet. He was still the boss at that time.
 
Never heard this before. What's that about?

From: http://194.63.248.138/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=298227

"Here's a substance that combined with aspirin, was clear when dry but when wet TURNED PURPLE:
Quote:
Perhaps you have noted that aspirin tablets, when exposed to moist air, will produce the faint odor of vinegar, which is 5% acetic acid. As a result of the slow hydrolysis reaction, the purple color slowly appears, indicating the complexation of iron(III) ions and free phenol group of the SA.

from:
http://www.chemheritage.org/educational ... /phony.htm

My theory is the person was given a dry unstained towel, that was secretly impregnated with aspirin and that other chemical. When he got it damp from his sweat, the purple stain appeared. No miracle - no healing - just sweat."

LuLu there was a product here like a dry pad that you were supposed to stick on the soles of your wet feet after showering, and then sleep with overnight and peel off in the morning, there would be various discolorations on the pads which were supposed to show that the pads had removed "toxins" from your body via your feet overnight. This was debunked as the pads were impregnated with chemicals that naturally turn colors when damp or wet.

Skeptics and de-bunkers have shown that the same "trick" can be used with the Purif towels to help convince people that they are sweating our toxins via their skin while doing the purif...

In other words....SNAKE OIL! (A fraud or con.)

Now, anyone who has ever taken a sauna or had a good facial with steam has seen how skin that they previous thought was "clean" will discharge some oils and dirt, etc. from out of their pores, but it is highly unusual for anyone to have lots of purple or brown or other discoloration coming out of their skin for any reason, and is NOT proof that the purif "works".

These towels could be sprayed or rinsed with any number of elements which would make this trick happen...like vinegar, even, a common household cleaning agent...

For more about the foot pads: http://healthinsider.hubpages.com/hub/foot_detox_pads
 
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