Debbie Cook responds to SP times (Tampa Bay Times)

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Good find Sweetness, in addition on the towel thingy, a light starching will produce a variety of colors as it reacts with iron in the sweat, its an old con with the 'expelled toxins' blah-blah-blah.
People sucked into the purif-rundown hoakum obviously have not done their basic homework.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
LuLu there was a product here like a dry pad that you were supposed to stick on the soles of your wet feet after showering, and then sleep with overnight and peel off in the morning, there would be various discolorations on the pads which were supposed to show that the pads had removed "toxins" from your body via your feet. This was debunked as the pads were impregnated with chemicals that naturally turn colors when damp or wet.

The explanation was total BS, but I did find that the pads really did help relieve pain back when my pain was worse than it is now. I eventually gave them up, but I still use them for certain bad pain.

My own take on it: they work best very close to the muscle (thus soles of feet) and where it's hottest close to the surface. They don't work well in areas covered by fat (the back), but work okay on the shoulders. Best on the feet, either top or bottom, though. Top was a bit less messy but also somewhat less effective.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Hubbard's totalitarian system protects them. If you know the tech, it will protect you! It protects them from even taking serious notice of any valid criticism, and there is NO valid criticism they allow through Hubbard's totalitarian filter system.

Is that like pouring table salt in a circle around you to keep evil spirits & demons at bay? Table salt is much cheaper than cult courses.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron

Sweetness, this link is to an advert for a competitive cleansing program! Somehow I don't think that is reliable debunking. Kind of like asking a Scientologist what branch of psychology they would recommend.

I'm with Thetanic. I've used the footpads and found them helpful. I had a case of psoriasis, a toxin based condition, that was getting rather persistent clear up and not recur since.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
The Purif towel thing is a red herring. Doesn't happen, didn't happen, never happened and probably never will. People usually bring their own towels to the Purif and no Purif i/c or Staff Member has the time nor the inclination to engage in tricksy tricks of this nature (they have other tricksy tricks which occupy them fully).
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Good find Sweetness, in addition on the towel thingy, a light starching will produce a variety of colors as it reacts with iron in the sweat, its an old con with the 'expelled toxins' blah-blah-blah.
People sucked into the purif-rundown hoakum obviously have not done their basic homework.

The Purif towel thing is a red herring. Doesn't happen, didn't happen, never happened and probably never will. People usually bring their own towels to the Purif and no Purif i/c or Staff Member has the time nor the inclination to engage in tricksy tricks of this nature (they have other tricksy tricks which occupy them fully).

The towel thing doesn't happen, BUT - this is a hugely important point about starches. I didn't know they reacted with iron. Starches are made of formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is used in soaps, shampoos, fabric softeners, clothing labels and many other things. It is also an allergen.

Too easy for formaldehyde to be on one's skin or personal towel and react with the iron contained in one's sweat. I had no idea that it was the formaldehyde reacting until your post, Ogs. Thank you very much.
 

smartone

My Own Boss
Even though I don't agree with your view on the technology, I do agree with you on this one.

There will never be internal reformation of the church of scientology until the FBI or some other law enforcement agency steps in and makes some arrests.

Even if tomorrow morning Mark Yager, Guillame Lesevre and Norman Starkey would all leave at once and joined Debbie and Marty, the C. of S. would continue under the rule of DM and teh majority of the parishionners would say "Ah those bastards THEY were the SP's...".

We tend to forget history: when David Mayo left he was much more powerful than Debbie ever was. He was the Snr C/S Int under LRH. When Vicky Azanaran left, she was IG. Jesse Prince, Gleeson, Robertson, the powerful Mission Holders: nothing has changed for the C. of S.

Reformation will occur, if ever, after law enforcement steps in. That would be enough of a shock to get parishionners to change their mind.

SD

Law enforcement will not step in. If they wanted to, they would have done so by now.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
And before that

Bill Franks and Alan Walter

And before that

John McMaster

And before that

Jack Horner

And along the way A.E. Van Vogt, Julia Salmon, Wing and Smokey Angel, Nibs, many more....

Debbie Cook has the internet.

Even my friends who are OT 7 & 8 are on line daily.

When John McMaster walked away in 1970, snail mail and all the Central Files addresses on the globe, would not have created this immediate a sensation.

She is in the right place at the right time.

Whoever her team consists of, they deserve huge kudos for a job Very Well Done. It is a team effort. She isn't winging this on her own.

What did LRH say about one Clear versus a group of Clears Getting things done?

Viva the revolution :)
 

Veda

Sponsor
Viva the revolution :)

This is a special kind of revolution. It's an On-Source, On-Policy, In-Tech revolution.

:eyeroll:

Can you feel your old Scientology brainwashing being "rehabbed"? Does it feel good? Is your needle floating?

P.S. For what it's worth, perhaps I should clarify this. What Debbie is doing is supposed to influence those still in the CofS, yet I'm observing what appears to be an indirect influencing of certain people - usually outside the CofS Scientologists - in the direction of "moving toward LRH." A kind of re-affirming of the old Scientology cult mind set where almost everything is referenced around LRH instructions.
 
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Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
OK but, seriously, who in their right mind starches towels? :biggrin:

No one I know, but it seems Scientologists do. In public. Its the outer layer of the scam which removes millions from the public purse . . .

[video]http://youtu.be/WoY4gVpvhNg[/video]​


. . . Ron is gone but the con goes on.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
...
I want those goddamn Orgs closed, especially where my kids work, as I did for many years, as slaves for pennies an hour while that mother-fucking-Tom Cruise-cock sucking midget lives like a king.

Let the fucking bombs keep falling on that miserable abomination that calls itself a church!

Peace brother,

TP

HELL YEAH! :thumbsup:
I'm with you on this 1000% and for the same reason - family members still drinking the cool-aid.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
...
"There is a word in Newspeak" said Syme, "I don't know whether you know it: duckspeak, to quack like a duck. It is one of those interesting words that have two contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it is abuse; applied to someone you agree with, it is praise."...

---Orwell, 1984

http://www.orwelltoday.com/goodthink.shtml

In Scientology, anything that is not Goodthinkful is untrue, and everything that is Goodthinkful is true.

Many many many cultists will be making special efforts to demonstrate Goodthinkfulness just now.

Very good, Smilla, but there is an intermediate step that has been left out and that is where duckspeak morphs into DICKSPEAK in the presence of the Dufus Midget; it has a sort of muffled gargling choking sound and is very carefully orchestrated to be goodthinkful. :yes:
 
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Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
No one I know, but it seems Scientologists do. In public. Its the outer layer of the scam which removes millions from the public purse . . .

[video]http://youtu.be/WoY4gVpvhNg[/video]​


. . . Ron is gone but the con goes on.
LOL, well there's a definitive scientific source right there, NOT!

Believe me, it doesn't happen. Ask around amongst your friends who have been involved in running Purif programs. It's a furphy.

furphy (plural furphies)

(Australian) (slang) a rumour, or an erroneous or improbable story.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
LOL, well there's a definitive scientific source right there, NOT!

Believe me, it doesn't happen. Ask around amongst your friends who have been involved in running Purif programs. It's a furphy.

furphy (plural furphies)

(Australian) (slang) a rumour, or an erroneous or improbable story.

Do they do the same thing with toilet paper?
 
Panda, it absolutely is reality:

From: http://www.contactmusic.com/news-article/cruise-blasted-by-911-firefighters

"Tom Cruise - Cruise Blasted By 9/11 Firefighters
14 December 2005 09:43

Cruise Blasted By 9/11 Firefighters

Outspoken actor TOM CRUISE has been criticised by firefighters suffering the effects of smoke inhalation from the World Trade Center terrorist attacks (11SEP01) for his controversial views on their treatment.

The Scientology devotee has urged emergency services victims to give up their medication and inhalers as part of a 'purification rundown' which favours sauna sessions, ingestion of cooking oil and large doses of niacin as cures instead.

As co-founder of the New York Rescue Workers Detoxification Project, Cruise has also supported a new Scientology clinic preaching these remedies near the Ground Zero site.

But the unorthodox therapy has been slammed as ridiculous and potentially harmful by members of the medical profession, as well as sufferers themselves.

Deputy Fire Commissioner FRANK GRIBBON tells gossip site PageSix.com, "If our doctors are prescribing medication, and they (Scientologists) are saying 'don't take it', that's a problem for us."

He adds that the department's deputy chief medical officer Dr DAVID PREZANT has supported criticism of the wacky treatment, saying, "He (Prezant) is not pleased when patients are advised to disobey doctors' orders. That's where he drew the line."

Cruise, however, has defended the venture, claiming, "More than 500 individuals have recovered health and job fitness through this project."

Tonight (14DEC05) he will make a rare personal appearance at a fundraising dinner in New York City for the charity effort."

Panda, I believe you that in your experience of the purif, you didn't see this happen. However, back when Tom Cruise was using his Celebrity status to do fundraising and attempting to get NY City to pay for alternative "health care" via a Scientology to "treat" disabled first responders from 9-11 with the purif, touch assists and auditing, etc., there was definitely some discolored towel flapping going on in the news media. It's what prompted skeptics to debunk the whole purif towel issue, that stained white towels showed it was "working". It was done in response to

I'm happy for anyone who feels they ever got benefit from sauna, exercise, or any other alternative health practice. :) I use alternative methods myself, in addition to mainstream medicine.

I do think the purif is fundamentally flawed and can be very dangerous for those with underlying health problems (which folks don't always know about in advance). The cost is obscene. The last two people in real life I know who were doing the purif were not doing it on their own determinism, but because they were ORDERED to, one as part of punishment (an amends project) and the other before being allowed to progress in auditing their next level. Not my idea of good health care. :no:

From: http://articles.nydailynews.com/200...ero-clinic-uniformed-firefighters-association

"But Scientology-run clinic under fire
BRAVEST TAKING THE CRUISE CURE
BY GREG GITTRICH DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Sunday, December 14, 2003

Not many medical clinics frame and display a filthy gym towel.

But then, not many medical clinics are bankrolled by Tom Cruise, target ailing firefighters who worked at Ground Zero and follow the teachings of the Church of Scientology.

"We're helping people," Jim Woodworth, director of Downtown Medical, said the other day as several firefighters sat in the clinic's 168-degree sauna.

As for that soiled towel in the frame above his desk, Woodworth said its purple stains prove toxins still lurk inside rescue workers who toiled at Ground Zero.

"This is what our first patient was sweating out for 13 days," Woodworth said. "We took that to the lab. We found magnesium, mercury, aluminum.

"You know why I put that up there?" Woodworth asked. "I put that up there because that's freakin' cool."


But the Fire Department has no use for Downtown Medical and its disputed detoxification program.

FDNY officials are concerned that many of the 120 firefighters who sought help at the clinic stopped using inhalers and medications prescribed by department doctors.

Fire officials also say the department has no proof that the clinic's regimen of moderate exercise, vitamins and saunas removes toxins from the body.

"Our doctors went down there and checked it out," said Deputy Commissioner Frank Gribbon. "Their opinion was this was not a detoxification program. We don't endorse it."

This month, the city's largest firefighters union yanked its support of Downtown Medical.

The Uniformed Firefighters Association initially praised the clinic for its "unique" work. But sources said the union reconsidered after some firefighters questioned the clinic's methods and connections to Scientology - a movement described as both a persecuted religion and a dangerous cult.

A union spokesman, Tom Butler, told the Daily News that Downtown Medical "made claims that have yet to be backed up by scientific data.

"The clinic's ability to prove its case to the department's top doctors . . . is absolutely critical in gaining the union's confidence," Butler said.

Fans of the program-

Located on the fifth floor of an unimpressive office building on Fulton St., Downtown Medical is just blocks from Ground Zero.

On one day, five firefighters at the center were receiving treatments aimed at curing respiratory problems, fatigue, memory loss and other problems they attribute to Ground Zero. All of them vouched for the program.

Bob Barrett, a 62-year-old retired firefighter, who worked at Ground Zero for several weeks, said the clinic's care improved his breathing and cured nagging muscle aches.

"I felt like I owed it to my family to take advantage of this detox," he said.

The detox program follows the teachings of the late L. Ron Hubbard, a science fiction writer who founded the Church of Scientology.

The regimen includes doses of the vitamin niacin, exercise, saunas, repeated showers and the digestion of a small amount of polyunsaturated oils.

The goal of the rundown is to remove toxic chemicals stored in the body.

"We've had firemen sweat out black, yellow, gray, purple," Woodworth said. "We've had patients with yellow bowel movements, green bowel movements, purple bowel movements."

Patients undergo three-hour treatments seven days a week, from 21 to 40 days.

The regimen costs $5,200. But rescue workers pay nothing.

In many cases, Tom Cruise, perhaps Scientology's best-known adherent, picks up the tab. Woodworth said other donors also provide support.

The clinic's medical director, Dr. Kawabena Nyamekye, said the clinic does not tell rescue workers to stop taking prescription drugs but helps them get off their medicines if they insist.

"We make sure they do it safely," he said.

Clinic officials said they will have the regimen peer-reviewed, but added such research takes time.

Woodworth argued it would be unfair to deny the firefighters treatments until the research is complete. He insisted existing data prove the regimen works.

Dr. James Dahlgren, a toxicologist who teaches at UCLA, said the detox program helped a woman he monitored in 1987 who had PCB poisoning.

"I'm not a Scientologist, so I'm not interested in Mr. Hubbard's being the author," he said. "But it's something that seems to work."

But Dr. Kerry Kelly, the chief medical officer for the Fire Department, said she has seen no "objective evidence" to support Downtown Medical's claims.

"The essence of their program is you stay in it until you suddenly wake up and say, 'I feel great,'" she said. "It's hard to have faith in a program like that."

She added, "I have trouble believing in these purple-stained towels."

Downtown Medical has its roots in a pair of California groups - the Foundation for Advancements in Science and Education, and HealthMed. Both have pushed Hubbard's teachings in the secular world for about 20 years.

The foundation and HealthMed, as well as Downtown Medical, have no formal ties to the Church of Scientology. But several of their top officials are church members.

Woodworth, a Scientologist, was executive director of HealthMed's office in Sacramento until last year. He said about half of Downtown Medical's staff are Scientologists.

Like Downtown Medical, the California groups have targeted people who were exposed to toxic substances on the job.

Called a failure-

In the late 1980s, about 20 firefighters from Shreveport, La., began the detox program at HealthMed.

The City of Shreveport approved the care. But as costs mounted, the city's insurance carriers questioned the validity of the program and the city hired a consultant to evaluate it.

The resulting 1988 report, written by Dr. Ronald Gots, a toxicology expert from Bethesda, Md., found the treatments "preyed upon the fears of the concerned workers, but served no rational medical function."

Groups that monitor Scientology and consider it a cult supported that assessment. They also predicted Downtown Medical would use images of firefighters at the clinic in attempts to win credibility and funding.

"I wouldn't recommend the program to anyone under any circumstances whatsoever," said Rick Ross of the New Jersey-based Ross Institute, which tracks movements it deems cults.

Woodworth dismissed Gots, calling him a shill for insurance companies. He called Ross a thief, giving The News a 1975 article about Ross' arrest for stealing diamond jewelry when he was 22.

Woodworth, however, has his own troubled past.

He told the Daily News he was a drug addict until 1986.

"I enjoyed my pot very much," he said. "But I did the [Hubbard detox] program, and I never did another drug."

When The News toured Downtown Medical, copies of Hubbard's best-selling self-help book "Clear Body, Clear Mind" sat on a table in the lobby.

A Hubbard quotation was inscribed on the frame of a painting in the television lounge. It reads: "Whatever man strives, wherever he works, whatever he does, the good he does outweighs the evil." But Woodworth and firefighters at the clinic said no efforts are made to convert anyone to Scientology.

Joe Higgins, a retired firefighter now paid by the clinic, said: "If this was about religion, how many firefighters do you think would have gone through it? Zero. It helped me and it is helping a lot of other rescue workers."

Israel Miranda, the health and safety coordinator for the Uniformed EMTs and Paramedics union, also sits on Downtown Medical's advisory board. He has referred about 15 EMTs to the program but said he is not paid by the clinic.

While firefighters at the clinic said they seldom hear Hubbard mentioned, one name does come up constantly: Tom Cruise.

Woodworth showed The News photos of Cruise visiting firefighters at the clinic. He also offered several rescue workers passes to last week's premiere of Cruise's latest movie, "The Last Samurai."

Woodworth said Cruise, who did not return calls, co-founded the clinic and continues to provide funding.

During a Nov. 28 appearance on CNN's "Larry King Live," Cruise praised the clinic for working "miracles."

"Doctors do not know how to diagnose chemical exposures, because it can actually have mental ramifications," he argued.

"There's things that we can do to help," he added. "Scientologists want to help people."

Sigh... :no:

Panda, and all interested others, the skeptics and debunkers who researched "the towel trick", didn't just make it up or pull the idea out of thin air. Discolored towels were being used to try to convince people of the efficacy of the purif, and to promote sales of the purif and encourage charitable contributions to the Scientology Clinic, and in a stealth way, to promote Ron's writings and Scientology.

From: http://theapolloseries.blogspot.com/

"Up until it was exposed, they had success with this strategy by donating sizeable amounts of cash to the campaign of the openly gay, NY Councilwoman, Margarita Lopez, and she in turn assisted them in getting a grant for $630,000 in city funds for the New York Rescue Workers Detoxification Project, that is nothing more than another Purification recruitment center for the "Church" of Scientology.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/programs/p rograms15.html

I mention "gay" because it goes to show that Scientology will violate their own "beliefs" and "tech" by contributing to a gay politician. Per the tech, gays are 1.1 on the "tone scale" and they are all perverts and should never be trusted."
 
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GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
You would think...but there are obviously a lot of things she should know by now that she apparently doesn't.

That's always been something that amazes me about some people who leave the Sea Org but who stay "loyal". When I left, I was done. With all of it. I can't understand the selective amnesia that goes on with people like her, and Marty, and Rinder, and a lot of others. I don't get it. Never will.

It's a held-down piece of data - a determination ("LRH is a good man with good intentions", "the See Arrrrggg is the most ethical group on the planet") and decision is made and set as a stable datum, from which years of decisions and determinations are made. Setting those aside, re-examining a life takes a strength and an integrity given lip-service only by Scientology and not encouraged by them in reality, ever.
 
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