Debbie Cook - the story behind the story

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
What infuriates me is that the C of S continues to make financial settlements with people, yet they don't change. If it was a multi national company and received as much bad PR, the shareholders would demand resignation, reform, change of practice and apologies.

The difference between Scientology and a corporation, is that Scientology doesn't have shareholders to make any demands. It's not like a government which can lose an election. It's not even like the Catholic Church which has cardinals and bishops who can criticize the Pope without fear of being removed.

Scientology is most like North Korea, in that it has somebody at the top with the power to destroy anybody who is critical of him. DM appears to tolerate no negative feedback.
 

Leland

Crusader
Well, it seems to me that the Debbie Cook E-mail......was an effort to do just that.....bring about a better grasp, of those she sent the Email to....about the current situation in the Cult.

Yes, there are no share holders....and yes....there is no change due to DM and how the Cult is structured...and its policy.....but I assume that Debbie had some purpose to change that....or attempt to do so...

Is there Cult policy that states that DM can dismantle Cult structure....and put top execs in "the hole"....and by pass or nullify....what I assumed were some sort of check and balances such as the Exec strata and WDC....and what ever else the Cult was morphed into such as RTC and other " management orgs"?

So...it would seem that DM violated Cult policy....and continues to do so.

( so it can be done....)

Some have posted here, that the Debbie Cook letter led to their leaving the Cult.....

I'm curious how many.....


How effective was it....?

It appears that Debbie Cook DID take on the role of a reformer....of a sorts.....

But it didn't pan out exactly as she had planned......

Edited: From what I've read...the hierarchy of the Cult has turned into some sort of "Lord of the Flies" situation.....
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
..... You actually speak shermanspeak.
That's more shermanspeak from you. .....
At least you have a big MU concerning the term "shermanspeak". But thats pretty normal for a special group of people - to throw around with terms they don´t have a clue about what they mean. It gives them an important feeling.

God, here's an ad hom I saying to you, you are a dick, and asshole.

Feel free to ban me, moderators.
I will pray for it.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
---snipped--

Part of the problem is that no one really knows why the C of S settled with Debbie, so it's all speculation.


Au contraire! I know.

REASON WHY THE C OF S SETTLED: It's the identical reason why every other one of the tens of millions of civil cases settle before going to trial. Because the potential risk/cost is too great. Settlement is an insurance policy against the risk of a devastating loss for one or both sides.

The potential downside (risk/cost) to the COS was:
a) Huge public relations loss = huge loss of future business.

b) Cost of trial (i.e. lawyers) probably 50-100 times (or more) greater
than the relatively minor cost of a quick settlement.

c) Avoidance of risk that COB gets pulled into deposition or testifying under
oath and being cross-examined, impeached, humiliated and potentially
indicted/prosecuted for perjury.

Remember, it was the COS that folded after Cook's initial testimony. If this was a boxing match, they got knocked out in the early part of the first round. They had already sustained devastating internet/media damage and like the impotent bully they are, when the very first punch to the nose was landed, they ran away crying loudly. "They", of course, means David Miscavige.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
..
What infuriates me is that the C of S continues to make financial settlements with people, yet they don't change.

If it was a multi national company and received as much bad PR, the shareholders would demand resignation, reform, change of practice and apologies.


They "don't change" because what they are doing (paying victims/whistleblowers off for their silence) works. Payoffs are a key "successful action" to their predation. Think of it like a Vegas casino that occasionally is forced to pay a jackpot to one out of a million of their losing gamblers.

On your other point ("...if it was a multi-national company.."); If it was a multi-national company, Scientology's leaders would be indicted for fraud, inurement, securities violations and RICO violations. And they'd:

* Go to jail

* Pay enormous sums for punitive damages

* Be barred from engaging in all similar kinds and varieties of business in the future.​

Yup, that's what would happen if they were a company. That's why Hubbard set it up as a church. Same reason bank robbers wear masks, gloves and use stolen getaway cars.
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
I know a few who donated to her legal fund, and when she got her settlement, they were paid back.
You could get your money back if you wrote Marty and specifically asked for it.
Because donations were made directly to a fund set up by Marty, without Debbie even knowing, or so he said.

I donated, but I didn't ask for money back.

I was just giving the money to Debbie for whatever, so I wasn't hiring her to be my gladiator against the church;)

But just to make it clear, the default setting on that deal was, Marty kept the money unless you asked for it back.

Where it went from there, I have no idea, although I seem to remember him making some post accounting for it, in some way.

I mean if it had all gone to Ray Jeffrey that would have been understandable.
But Marty offered refunds AFTER Jeffrey and Debbie had their big day in court.
Like every $cientology dealing I have ever had, I figured as a lowly minion I didn't rate any explaination of what went on. Especially the oh so prominently clandestine "behind the scenes, need to know" situations.
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
It all just smacks of a "handling" to me the more I think about it and the more I read others' recollections--as well as remember my own. Why is it always a handling?



I guess old OSA operatives never truly change all of their spots. :duh:
Word!
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
..

They "don't change" because what they are doing (paying victims/whistleblowers off for their silence) works. Payoffs are a key "successful action" to their predation. Think of it like a Vegas casino that occasionally is forced to pay a jackpot to one out of a million of their losing gamblers.

On your other point ("...if it was a multi-national company.."); If it was a multi-national company, Scientology's leaders would be indicted for fraud, inurement, securities violations and RICO violations. And they'd:

* Go to jail

* Pay enormous sums for punitive damages

* Be barred from engaging in all similar kinds and varieties of business in the future.​

Yup, that's what would happen if they were a company. That's why Hubbard set it up as a church. Same reason bank robbers wear masks, gloves and use stolen getaway cars.

OK, but what happens if and when people start refusing the money?
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
IMHO - Debbie Cook needs to do more to make up the damage.

She hurt a lot of people. Pay some of those families back that were shattered during your "tenure" Debbie. It is the right thing to do. I recall her driving a BEEMER around the Flag Land Base. She purchased it with her COMMISSION after shattering Mia Pia Gardini's life and extracting her last dime. I had forgotten about the Mia Pia Gardini Story - here it is for any lurkers:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=tIXvE_hqbUvOK1FS5WLZMQ&bvm=bv.99556055,d.cWw



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=tIXvE_hqbUvOK1FS5WLZMQ&bvm=bv.99556055,d.cWw

Scientology got $2,000,000 out of Maria Pia Gardini - she died of cancer. They destroyed her after getting all of her money.

I had friends that were OOT's during her tenure. They said she was vicious and evil.

Someone reported that she is doing well after 3 years. Someone commented on how nice that is for her - meanwhile their family NEVER recovered. I feel for the one's that are ruined and never paid anything. I have no one that was on staff, I was never on staff - but there were people in our Org that committed suicide and / or went crazy because of Scientology.

I am sick of the assholes at the top - that worked with Miscavige - they escape, become famous, write books and get paid off with BLOOD MONEY while the lowly staff member's life is ruined and they just get discarded without sorrow. BY TAKING THE BLOOD MONEY in exchange for SILENCE - they KEEP SCIENTOLOGY WORKING! Stupid morons!

She pisses me off and the fools that worship her like she is some type of god - is sickening!

I am disappointed with Mike Rinder for making her look like some kind of hero.

She needs to do MORE!

Thanks, Ethics Officer Knows! What is on my program to get back into good standing?
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Au contraire! I know.

REASON WHY THE C OF S SETTLED: It's the identical reason why every other one of the tens of millions of civil cases settle before going to trial. Because the potential risk/cost is too great. Settlement is an insurance policy against the risk of a devastating loss for one or both sides.

The potential downside (risk/cost) to the COS was:
a) Huge public relations loss = huge loss of future business.

b) Cost of trial (i.e. lawyers) probably 50-100 times (or more) greater
than the relatively minor cost of a quick settlement.

c) Avoidance of risk that COB gets pulled into deposition or testifying under
oath and being cross-examined, impeached, humiliated and potentially
indicted/prosecuted for perjury.

Remember, it was the COS that folded after Cook's initial testimony. If this was a boxing match, they got knocked out in the early part of the first round. They had already sustained devastating internet/media damage and like the impotent bully they are, when the very first punch to the nose was landed, they ran away crying loudly. "They", of course, means David Miscavige.


Actually I think it is almost certainly (c) I don't think that (a) is much of a concern for Miscavige - he is addicted to whale watching and catching. It's much easier to beat a few million more out Duggan or Cruise or whomever than it is to try and actually get people in. But (c) - now THAT scares him. He doesn't dare be deposed under oath. There are too many people now who have documentation and affidavits - one slip and he is toast.

as for Cook my opinion of her has not changed a bit. Not much to choose between her and miscavige.
 

Boomima

Patron with Honors
BB,
If you search up the threads on Debbie Cook you will see that for some people writing that email does not erase the real and terrible harm she did while she was on top. She lived very, very well for awhile and took a lot of money from people.

Your attacks on DB are really not warranted. Do your research. But I think that Knows makes a good case for the people who are not impressed by Debbie Cook.

IMHO - Debbie Cook needs to do more to make up the damage.

She hurt a lot of people. Pay some of those families back that were shattered during your "tenure" Debbie. It is the right thing to do. I recall her driving a BEEMER around the Flag Land Base. She purchased it with her COMMISSION after shattering Mia Pia Gardini's life and extracting her last dime. I had forgotten about the Mia Pia Gardini Story - here it is for any lurkers:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=tIXvE_hqbUvOK1FS5WLZMQ&bvm=bv.99556055,d.cWw



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=tIXvE_hqbUvOK1FS5WLZMQ&bvm=bv.99556055,d.cWw

Scientology got $2,000,000 out of Maria Pia Gardini - she died of cancer. They destroyed her after getting all of her money.

I had friends that were OOT's during her tenure. They said she was vicious and evil.

Someone reported that she is doing well after 3 years. Someone commented on how nice that is for her - meanwhile their family NEVER recovered. I feel for the one's that are ruined and never paid anything. I have no one that was on staff, I was never on staff - but there were people in our Org that committed suicide and / or went crazy because of Scientology.

I am sick of the assholes at the top - that worked with Miscavige - they escape, become famous, write books and get paid off with BLOOD MONEY while the lowly staff member's life is ruined and they just get discarded without sorrow. BY TAKING THE BLOOD MONEY in exchange for SILENCE - they KEEP SCIENTOLOGY WORKING! Stupid morons!

She pisses me off and the fools that worship her like she is some type of god - is sickening!

I am disappointed with Mike Rinder for making her look like some kind of hero.

She needs to do MORE!
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
He can violate policy all he wants. He has nobody senior to him who can remove him.

Maybe, but from what I gather from what others have said here he is convinced that he is running the CofS the way Ron Hubbard would have wanted, and wants it to stay that way. The sad thing is, he's probably right about the first.
 

SonatheFixer

Patron with Honors
Actually I think it is almost certainly (c) I don't think that (a) is much of a concern for Miscavige - he is addicted to whale watching and catching. It's much easier to beat a few million more out Duggan or Cruise or whomever than it is to try and actually get people in. But (c) - now THAT scares him. He doesn't dare be deposed under oath. There are too many people now who have documentation and affidavits - one slip and he is toast.

as for Cook my opinion of her has not changed a bit. Not much to choose between her and miscavige.

I get a feeling that things were about to go South big time for Debbie and what she did was for her own survival and positioning. This is purely speculation on my part.

Some things don't seem to sit right about her, but then again, she was a ruthless executive in a ruthless organization and I guess it's hard to just flip the switch on that.

There will be elements of conditioning remaining in and around her. In time I guess she may gradually shed the old persona, like most of us do or did. It may come when she feels safe enough to do so, unless the psychopathic conditioning has become too firmly entrenched. She may still be quite wary of us out in the wog world and may to some degree still consider us as the enemy as well.

I don't think I will hold my breath though.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
...

OK, but what happens if and when people start refusing the money?


ANSWER: Not very likely to occur. However, if that ever happens, people will have risen above Homo Sapiens to the elevated state of Homo [STRIKE]Novus[/STRIKE] Nobucks.
 

chipgallo

Patron Meritorious
It's not even like the Catholic Church which has cardinals and bishops who can criticize the Pope without fear of being removed.

The Pope partnered monetarily with Nazi Germany and fascist Italy during World War II and did nothing to stop the murder of millions of civilians as a result. DM has never and will never approach this level. The well-documented story is here:

"God's Bankers: A History of Money and Power at the Vatican" by Gerald Posner.
 
I get a feeling that things were about to go South big time for Debbie and what she did was for her own survival and positioning. This is purely speculation on my part.

Some things don't seem to sit right about her, but then again, she was a ruthless executive in a ruthless organization and I guess it's hard to just flip the switch on that.

There will be elements of conditioning remaining in and around her. In time I guess she may gradually shed the old persona, like most of us do or did. It may come when she feels safe enough to do so, unless the psychopathic conditioning has become too firmly entrenched. She may still be quite wary of us out in the wog world and may to some degree still consider us as the enemy as well.

I don't think I will hold my breath though.


Capture.PNGmkl.png
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
I wanted to stay out of this thread because I figured it would degenerate into a slanging match between Debbie-lovers and Debbie-haters and I'm neither (seriously:coolwink:)

But it's Saturday morning and I'm avoiding doing something strenuous for a little while longer so I've just read the last few pages of this thread.

I dunno if anyone's stated this somewhere but, as much as I like the guy, Mike Rinder's piece smacks of "an acceptable truth" to me. I know possibly more than most here about what happened (yes, all those "need to knows" stuff) and there's bits that probably will never see the light of day in the story.

Debbie and Wayne never personally harmed me. She was my Interne Sup for over a year at FSO. Wayne was then a FSO Div 6er still married happily to his then-wife. I audited him as part of my Cl IV Interneship. I also met him later many times when he was transferred to AOSH ANZO as the Flag reg there - a man whose marriage eventually floundered and he didn't know what to do about it. And the "on-Source solutions" were no help at all for him.

I liked them both as people. I saw Debbie much later very briefly during her Capt. FSO years but never interacted with her then. She wasn't the same fresh-out-of-the-RPF person I'd met when she took over the Interneship from Shaun Quirino. The tough but funny woman doing a shitty job in the insanity that is FSO. A survivor.

Unless the cult falls and Miscavige loses everything, we'll never know the full details of what happened here. Debbie was very sick at the time, the cult were making her life a bigger misery than it already was and I believe she was incredibly brave to put herself through what she did. I do know it took a heavy toll on her and Wayne. To settle would have been a huge relief. Even if it were without the rumoured large payment.

Could I do what she has APPARENTLY done and take the money and run? No. Not if I'd left that many bodies behind me like Maria Pia Gardini. But I didn't finish growing up in the CMO, hit the RPF and get labelled a "Tiger" and have to fight my way back into "The Most Ethical Group in the Universe Ever." :puke:

The story I know paints Debbie in a much better light - but it's not mine to tell. Someone who was still very much enthralled to the cult but trying to do the right thing and "Strike a blow against the enemies of the group blah blah blah.":blah::blah::blah:

Someone who was trying to do that isn't yet up to being able to look at the past horrors - in my experience, they're still very, VERY angry and reacting like Hubbard would under attack.

I've no idea how well her and Wayne have moved on from that - I'm guessing (and hoping) a lot.

I just hope she's found something good like Chris Sheldon's You-Tube channel and learned to think critically and pull herself out of the Hubbardspew we were all infested with.:yes:
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
"God's Bankers: A History of Money and Power at the Vatican" by Gerald Posner.

If the book has anything of merit in it it's almost guaranteed it's because Posner stole it from some one else's research and writing. I have no argument against Vatican getting in bed with the Nazi's and other very nefarious political maneuvering. The Vatican has always been a soap opera of power, money and politics almost since it's inception, or I should say was its foundation.

Gerald Posner is a plagiarist and creepy narcissistic plastic surgery addict. I'd never buy a book he wrote, but if I was interested in the topic would look elsewhere for the books he stole from to put his together.
 
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Billy Blinder

Patron with Honors
Uh - I think this is a bit different than a "sales pitch" from a restaurant.

Scientology ruins lives- destroys people and shatters families. Restaurants may provide a shitty meal. It won't ruin your life.

Debbie Cook got blood money in exchange for silence. How is that okay?

OK, bad example, but it's an example.

Of course I know scientology ruins lives. It creates more problems than it solves, the biggest problem being going up the Bridge to imaginary states of existence.

I think it is important to remember as Mike Rinder posted he and Marty both advised Debbie to take the money, and I think it is important to remember, at that that time in early 2012 after her email, a few months later she gets sued by the COS, I think it is important to remember both Mike and Marty were of the mindset scientology good, DM bad. I speculate Debbie was under the same mindset. Plus you have Ray Jeffrey in the mix. There are lots of things to consider, and if one put yourself in her shoes at the time, meaning still being under the influence of Hubbard's mindset.

There is also a piece of missing data that in view of all the posts posted after your response to me, is that Debbie/Ray Jeffrey countersued right after her story told on stage in the courtroom. So we don't know a lot of things.

But, I do believe, the case was settled because DM had potential to be put on the legal stand, and I don't think DM cares about the money per see as he still at the time had big whales in his pocket.

But, here is also a thought I had, and I don't know the legal of it all. IF the COS corporations can do thru their lawyers do everything possible to prevent DM from being deposed or put on the witness stand, then the COS or IAS pays the lawyers for that. And, here's my thought, if DM somehow gets put on the witness stand or is being deposed, then that action will require DM's personal lawyer and those expenses comes out of DM's pocket otherwise that could be viewed as INUREMENT. Hopefully my thought makes sense, and maybe a lawyer will know.
 
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