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Debbie Cook - the story behind the story

Discussion in 'Debbie Cook' started by Free to shine, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The difference between Scientology and a corporation, is that Scientology doesn't have shareholders to make any demands. It's not like a government which can lose an election. It's not even like the Catholic Church which has cardinals and bishops who can criticize the Pope without fear of being removed.

    Scientology is most like North Korea, in that it has somebody at the top with the power to destroy anybody who is critical of him. DM appears to tolerate no negative feedback.
  2. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Well, it seems to me that the Debbie Cook E-mail......was an effort to do just that.....bring about a better grasp, of those she sent the Email to....about the current situation in the Cult.

    Yes, there are no share holders....and yes....there is no change due to DM and how the Cult is structured...and its policy.....but I assume that Debbie had some purpose to change that....or attempt to do so...

    Is there Cult policy that states that DM can dismantle Cult structure....and put top execs in "the hole"....and by pass or nullify....what I assumed were some sort of check and balances such as the Exec strata and WDC....and what ever else the Cult was morphed into such as RTC and other " management orgs"? would seem that DM violated Cult policy....and continues to do so.

    ( so it can be done....)

    Some have posted here, that the Debbie Cook letter led to their leaving the Cult.....

    I'm curious how many.....

    How effective was it....?

    It appears that Debbie Cook DID take on the role of a reformer....of a sorts.....

    But it didn't pan out exactly as she had planned......

    Edited: From what I've read...the hierarchy of the Cult has turned into some sort of "Lord of the Flies" situation.....
  3. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    At least you have a big MU concerning the term "shermanspeak". But thats pretty normal for a special group of people - to throw around with terms they donĀ“t have a clue about what they mean. It gives them an important feeling.

    I will pray for it.
  4. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Au contraire! I know.

    REASON WHY THE C OF S SETTLED: It's the identical reason why every other one of the tens of millions of civil cases settle before going to trial. Because the potential risk/cost is too great. Settlement is an insurance policy against the risk of a devastating loss for one or both sides.

    The potential downside (risk/cost) to the COS was:
    a) Huge public relations loss = huge loss of future business.

    b) Cost of trial (i.e. lawyers) probably 50-100 times (or more) greater
    than the relatively minor cost of a quick settlement.

    c) Avoidance of risk that COB gets pulled into deposition or testifying under
    oath and being cross-examined, impeached, humiliated and potentially
    indicted/prosecuted for perjury.

    Remember, it was the COS that folded after Cook's initial testimony. If this was a boxing match, they got knocked out in the early part of the first round. They had already sustained devastating internet/media damage and like the impotent bully they are, when the very first punch to the nose was landed, they ran away crying loudly. "They", of course, means David Miscavige.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  5. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    They "don't change" because what they are doing (paying victims/whistleblowers off for their silence) works. Payoffs are a key "successful action" to their predation. Think of it like a Vegas casino that occasionally is forced to pay a jackpot to one out of a million of their losing gamblers.

    On your other point ("...if it was a multi-national company.."); If it was a multi-national company, Scientology's leaders would be indicted for fraud, inurement, securities violations and RICO violations. And they'd:

    * Go to jail

    * Pay enormous sums for punitive damages

    * Be barred from engaging in all similar kinds and varieties of business in the future. ​

    Yup, that's what would happen if they were a company. That's why Hubbard set it up as a church. Same reason bank robbers wear masks, gloves and use stolen getaway cars.
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Patron Meritorious

    You could get your money back if you wrote Marty and specifically asked for it.
    Because donations were made directly to a fund set up by Marty, without Debbie even knowing, or so he said.

    I donated, but I didn't ask for money back.

    I was just giving the money to Debbie for whatever, so I wasn't hiring her to be my gladiator against the church;)

    But just to make it clear, the default setting on that deal was, Marty kept the money unless you asked for it back.

    Where it went from there, I have no idea, although I seem to remember him making some post accounting for it, in some way.

    I mean if it had all gone to Ray Jeffrey that would have been understandable.
    But Marty offered refunds AFTER Jeffrey and Debbie had their big day in court.
    Like every $cientology dealing I have ever had, I figured as a lowly minion I didn't rate any explaination of what went on. Especially the oh so prominently clandestine "behind the scenes, need to know" situations.
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Patron Meritorious

  8. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    OK, but what happens if and when people start refusing the money?
  9. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    He can violate policy all he wants. He has nobody senior to him who can remove him.
  10. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Thanks, Ethics Officer Knows! What is on my program to get back into good standing?
  11. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Actually I think it is almost certainly (c) I don't think that (a) is much of a concern for Miscavige - he is addicted to whale watching and catching. It's much easier to beat a few million more out Duggan or Cruise or whomever than it is to try and actually get people in. But (c) - now THAT scares him. He doesn't dare be deposed under oath. There are too many people now who have documentation and affidavits - one slip and he is toast.

    as for Cook my opinion of her has not changed a bit. Not much to choose between her and miscavige.
  12. Boomima

    Boomima Patron with Honors

    If you search up the threads on Debbie Cook you will see that for some people writing that email does not erase the real and terrible harm she did while she was on top. She lived very, very well for awhile and took a lot of money from people.

    Your attacks on DB are really not warranted. Do your research. But I think that Knows makes a good case for the people who are not impressed by Debbie Cook.

  13. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Maybe, but from what I gather from what others have said here he is convinced that he is running the CofS the way Ron Hubbard would have wanted, and wants it to stay that way. The sad thing is, he's probably right about the first.
  14. SonatheFixer

    SonatheFixer Patron with Honors

    I get a feeling that things were about to go South big time for Debbie and what she did was for her own survival and positioning. This is purely speculation on my part.

    Some things don't seem to sit right about her, but then again, she was a ruthless executive in a ruthless organization and I guess it's hard to just flip the switch on that.

    There will be elements of conditioning remaining in and around her. In time I guess she may gradually shed the old persona, like most of us do or did. It may come when she feels safe enough to do so, unless the psychopathic conditioning has become too firmly entrenched. She may still be quite wary of us out in the wog world and may to some degree still consider us as the enemy as well.

    I don't think I will hold my breath though.
  15. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    ANSWER: Not very likely to occur. However, if that ever happens, people will have risen above Homo Sapiens to the elevated state of Homo [STRIKE]Novus[/STRIKE] Nobucks.
  16. chipgallo

    chipgallo Patron Meritorious

    The Pope partnered monetarily with Nazi Germany and fascist Italy during World War II and did nothing to stop the murder of millions of civilians as a result. DM has never and will never approach this level. The well-documented story is here:

    "God's Bankers: A History of Money and Power at the Vatican" by Gerald Posner.
  17. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

  18. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    I wanted to stay out of this thread because I figured it would degenerate into a slanging match between Debbie-lovers and Debbie-haters and I'm neither (seriously:coolwink:)

    But it's Saturday morning and I'm avoiding doing something strenuous for a little while longer so I've just read the last few pages of this thread.

    I dunno if anyone's stated this somewhere but, as much as I like the guy, Mike Rinder's piece smacks of "an acceptable truth" to me. I know possibly more than most here about what happened (yes, all those "need to knows" stuff) and there's bits that probably will never see the light of day in the story.

    Debbie and Wayne never personally harmed me. She was my Interne Sup for over a year at FSO. Wayne was then a FSO Div 6er still married happily to his then-wife. I audited him as part of my Cl IV Interneship. I also met him later many times when he was transferred to AOSH ANZO as the Flag reg there - a man whose marriage eventually floundered and he didn't know what to do about it. And the "on-Source solutions" were no help at all for him.

    I liked them both as people. I saw Debbie much later very briefly during her Capt. FSO years but never interacted with her then. She wasn't the same fresh-out-of-the-RPF person I'd met when she took over the Interneship from Shaun Quirino. The tough but funny woman doing a shitty job in the insanity that is FSO. A survivor.

    Unless the cult falls and Miscavige loses everything, we'll never know the full details of what happened here. Debbie was very sick at the time, the cult were making her life a bigger misery than it already was and I believe she was incredibly brave to put herself through what she did. I do know it took a heavy toll on her and Wayne. To settle would have been a huge relief. Even if it were without the rumoured large payment.

    Could I do what she has APPARENTLY done and take the money and run? No. Not if I'd left that many bodies behind me like Maria Pia Gardini. But I didn't finish growing up in the CMO, hit the RPF and get labelled a "Tiger" and have to fight my way back into "The Most Ethical Group in the Universe Ever." :puke:

    The story I know paints Debbie in a much better light - but it's not mine to tell. Someone who was still very much enthralled to the cult but trying to do the right thing and "Strike a blow against the enemies of the group blah blah blah.":blah::blah::blah:

    Someone who was trying to do that isn't yet up to being able to look at the past horrors - in my experience, they're still very, VERY angry and reacting like Hubbard would under attack.

    I've no idea how well her and Wayne have moved on from that - I'm guessing (and hoping) a lot.

    I just hope she's found something good like Chris Sheldon's You-Tube channel and learned to think critically and pull herself out of the Hubbardspew we were all infested with.:yes:
  19. BunnySkull

    BunnySkull Silver Meritorious Patron

    If the book has anything of merit in it it's almost guaranteed it's because Posner stole it from some one else's research and writing. I have no argument against Vatican getting in bed with the Nazi's and other very nefarious political maneuvering. The Vatican has always been a soap opera of power, money and politics almost since it's inception, or I should say was its foundation.

    Gerald Posner is a plagiarist and creepy narcissistic plastic surgery addict. I'd never buy a book he wrote, but if I was interested in the topic would look elsewhere for the books he stole from to put his together.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2015
  20. Billy Blinder

    Billy Blinder Patron with Honors

    OK, bad example, but it's an example.

    Of course I know scientology ruins lives. It creates more problems than it solves, the biggest problem being going up the Bridge to imaginary states of existence.

    I think it is important to remember as Mike Rinder posted he and Marty both advised Debbie to take the money, and I think it is important to remember, at that that time in early 2012 after her email, a few months later she gets sued by the COS, I think it is important to remember both Mike and Marty were of the mindset scientology good, DM bad. I speculate Debbie was under the same mindset. Plus you have Ray Jeffrey in the mix. There are lots of things to consider, and if one put yourself in her shoes at the time, meaning still being under the influence of Hubbard's mindset.

    There is also a piece of missing data that in view of all the posts posted after your response to me, is that Debbie/Ray Jeffrey countersued right after her story told on stage in the courtroom. So we don't know a lot of things.

    But, I do believe, the case was settled because DM had potential to be put on the legal stand, and I don't think DM cares about the money per see as he still at the time had big whales in his pocket.

    But, here is also a thought I had, and I don't know the legal of it all. IF the COS corporations can do thru their lawyers do everything possible to prevent DM from being deposed or put on the witness stand, then the COS or IAS pays the lawyers for that. And, here's my thought, if DM somehow gets put on the witness stand or is being deposed, then that action will require DM's personal lawyer and those expenses comes out of DM's pocket otherwise that could be viewed as INUREMENT. Hopefully my thought makes sense, and maybe a lawyer will know.