Debbie Cook - the story behind the story

freethinker

Sponsor
[h=1]18 U.S. Code § 1512 - Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant[/h](b) Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to— (1) influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding;

(2) cause or induce any person to— (A) withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an official proceeding;

(B) alter, destroy, mutilate, or conceal an object with intent to impair the object’s integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding;
(C) evade legal process summoning that person to appear as a witness, or to produce a record, document, or other object, in an official proceeding; or
(D) be absent from an official proceeding to which such person has been summoned by legal process; or

(3) hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense or a violation of conditions of probation [SUP][1][/SUP] supervised release,, [SUP][1][/SUP] parole, or release pending judicial proceedings;

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512







Late to the thread, but I'm curious....

Because she took a settlement, she can't write more about Scientology?

Can she be called as a witness in a civil case such as Garcia? Perhaps not.

But what about a federal case?

Under what circumstances could she be FORCED to testify, regardless of any nondisclosure agreements?

Anyone know?
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
You're such a rosey tinted pastsy!
What about responding to the actual content of my post?

Do you have any actual information to back up your allusion that Marty's actions in advising Cook to "take the settlement" were somehow motivated by personal gain or are you just making shit up? :confused2:
 

Lone Star

Crusader
What about responding to the actual content of my post?

Do you have any actual information to back up your allusion that Marty's actions in advising Cook to "take the settlement" were somehow motivated by personal gain or are you just making shit up? :confused2:

Oh yeah? Well what about....well...you know...uh...responding to the...uh...actual content of his shit? Mmmmmm?

He took the trouble to make it up and everything ya know.

Mister Man. All high and mighty. Pffft!
 
.
.

Unless I have misread, Marty was part of Debbie Cook's legal team, as an adviser. He had to bow out on some aspects of the settlement procedure. I assume that was demanded by CoS. However, as an important adviser to Jeffrey and Cook, I assume Marty got paid. If he did, he would have had some financial interest in whether Cook should settle or not.

You're such a cynic. I doubt that personal financial reward had anything to do with the "take the settlement" advice given by Marty, Mike and Marc.

You're such a rosey tinted pastsy!

What about responding to the actual content of my post?

Do you have any actual information to back up your allusion that Marty's actions in advising Cook to "take the settlement" were somehow motivated by personal gain or are you just making shit up? :confused2:

You called it an allusion. I don't think it is exactly that, but it's near enough I guess. Now, your criticism is why didn't I respond to your........your what? Your opinion? You just gave an opinion, with nothing to back it up, but criticise me for making a comment. Note that i did not claim that Marty did anything. I just pointed out part of the reality of the overall situation. This apparently makes me a 'cynic'. Perhaps I am, but that is irrelevant. You used it as an ad hom. Since you did that, I decided to throw something of equivalence back at you --.

There are other things that a 'cynic' could say about other possible benefits Marty could have derived from advising D. Cook to settle. I don't claim to know his motives and you haven't shown that you do either. Questioning motives of people who are in a situation like the one that Marty was in, in the settlement process, is healthy IMO.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
You called it an allusion. I don't think it is exactly that, but it's near enough I guess. Now, your criticism is why didn't I respond to your........your what? Your opinion? You just gave an opinion, with nothing to back it up, but criticise me for making a comment. Note that i did not claim that Marty did anything. I just pointed out part of the reality of the overall situation. This apparently makes me a 'cynic'. Perhaps I am, but that is irrelevant. You used it as an ad hom. Since you did that, I decided to throw something of equivalence back at you --.

There are other things that a 'cynic' could say about other possible benefits Marty could have derived from advising D. Cook to settle. I don't claim to know his motives and you haven't shown that you do either. Questioning motives of people who are in a situation like the one that Marty was in, in the settlement process, is healthy IMO.

Yeah Panda! Just......Yeah! :p

Okay, that aside....I'm still having a hard time believing that Marty really advised her to settle. I believe that Rinder probably did, but still scratching my head on the Marty doing so. I keep getting the feeling that this is a spin.

But, who knows? Cognitive dissonance is active in both the Scilon and Ex-Scilon world.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Late to the thread, but I'm curious....

Because she took a settlement, she can't write more about Scientology?

Can she be called as a witness in a civil case such as Garcia? Perhaps not.

But what about a federal case?

Under what circumstances could she be FORCED to testify, regardless of any nondisclosure agreements?

Anyone know?


Surely in a court of Law. She signed NDOs on leaving CO$ and DM thought his
wishes werer senior to the law of the land. Yet she testified.
 

Billy Blinder

Patron with Honors
OK, bad example, but it's an example.

Of course I know scientology ruins lives. It creates more problems than it solves, the biggest problem being going up the Bridge to imaginary states of existence.

I think it is important to remember as Mike Rinder posted he and Marty both advised Debbie to take the money, and I think it is important to remember, at that that time in early 2012 after her email, a few months later she gets sued by the COS, I think it is important to remember both Mike and Marty were of the mindset scientology good, DM bad. I speculate Debbie was under the same mindset. Plus you have Ray Jeffrey in the mix. There are lots of things to consider, and if one put yourself in her shoes at the time, meaning still being under the influence of Hubbard's mindset.

There is also a piece of missing data that in view of all the posts posted after your response to me, is that Debbie/Ray Jeffrey countersued right after her story told on stage in the courtroom. So we don't know a lot of things.

But, I do believe, the case was settled because DM had potential to be put on the legal stand, and I don't think DM cares about the money per see as he still at the time had big whales in his pocket.

But, here is also a thought I had, and I don't know the legal of it all. IF the COS corporations can do thru their lawyers do everything possible to prevent DM from being deposed or put on the witness stand, then the COS or IAS pays the lawyers for that. And, here's my thought, if DM somehow gets put on the witness stand or is being deposed, then that action will require DM's personal lawyer and those expenses comes out of DM's pocket otherwise that could be viewed as INUREMENT. Hopefully my thought makes sense, and maybe a lawyer will know.

from an earlier tread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...th-Debbie-Cook&p=682528&viewfull=1#post682528

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...th-Debbie-Cook&p=685737&viewfull=1#post685737

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...th-Debbie-Cook&p=685304&viewfull=1#post685304

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...th-Debbie-Cook&p=685422&viewfull=1#post685422

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...th-Debbie-Cook&p=685551&viewfull=1#post685551

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...th-Debbie-Cook&p=685942&viewfull=1#post685942

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...th-Debbie-Cook&p=685737&viewfull=1#post685737

These Emails by DC to COS are important, as posted in this linked repeated from above links:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...th-Debbie-Cook&p=685942&viewfull=1#post685942
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Yeah Panda! Just......Yeah! :p

Okay, that aside....I'm still having a hard time believing that Marty really advised her to settle. I believe that Rinder probably did, but still scratching my head on the Marty doing so. I keep getting the feeling that this is a spin.

But, who knows? Cognitive dissonance is active in both the Scilon and Ex-Scilon world.

Marty took up a collection of thousands of dollars at his blog, for her legal defense, unbeknownst to her. That tells me that he was hoping to help her lawyer-up. And, Marty knows that the cult will bring in a team of lawyers and try to drag it out for as long as possible. The incentive to settle is there, and built-in to meeting the cult in court.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
OK, bad example, but it's an example.

Of course I know scientology ruins lives. It creates more problems than it solves, the biggest problem being going up the Bridge to imaginary states of existence.

I think it is important to remember as Mike Rinder posted he and Marty both advised Debbie to take the money, and I think it is important to remember, at that that time in early 2012 after her email, a few months later she gets sued by the COS, I think it is important to remember both Mike and Marty were of the mindset scientology good, DM bad. I speculate Debbie was under the same mindset. Plus you have Ray Jeffrey in the mix. There are lots of things to consider, and if one put yourself in her shoes at the time, meaning still being under the influence of Hubbard's mindset.

There is also a piece of missing data that in view of all the posts posted after your response to me, is that Debbie/Ray Jeffrey countersued right after her story told on stage in the courtroom. So we don't know a lot of things.

But, I do believe, the case was settled because DM had potential to be put on the legal stand, and I don't think DM cares about the money per see as he still at the time had big whales in his pocket.

But, here is also a thought I had, and I don't know the legal of it all. IF the COS corporations can do thru their lawyers do everything possible to prevent DM from being deposed or put on the witness stand, then the COS or IAS pays the lawyers for that. And, here's my thought, if DM somehow gets put on the witness stand or is being deposed, then that action will require DM's personal lawyer and those expenses comes out of DM's pocket otherwise that could be viewed as INUREMENT. Hopefully my thought makes sense, and maybe a lawyer will know.

No. Real churches have a legal department, usually regional.
 

Billy Blinder

Patron with Honors
No. Real churches have a legal department, usually regional.

as far as I'm concerned, if I did not receive that email, why I'd still be in the COS following DM's command intention.

All of the rest of this speculation is beyond me nor do I care about the speculation of her getting a pay-off or not or was it just or not or she needs to do more.

From a selfish point of view, that email got me to LOOK and research, and it got me to then tell others to look and research. And then it's up to the person to look and decide, all the while being under the radar.
 
as far as I'm concerned, if I did not receive that email, why I'd still be in the COS following DM's command intention.

All of the rest of this speculation is beyond me nor do I care about the speculation of her getting a pay-off or not or was it just or not or she needs to do more.

From a selfish point of view, that email got me to LOOK and research, and it got me to then tell others to look and research. And then it's up to the person to look and decide, all the while being under the radar.

I don't think anyone is arguing against you, that Cook helped you and many others by writing the email.

You seem to see it as an either-or thing.....If she helped you and others personally, then that is all there is to say or enquire about Cook's settlement. There are lots of things to think about, if anyone wants to, in addition to the fact that she helped people.
 

Billy Blinder

Patron with Honors
I don't think anyone is arguing against you, that Cook helped you and many others by writing the email.

You seem to see it as an either-or thing.....If she helped you and others personally, then that is all there is to say or enquire about Cook's settlement. There are lots of things to think about, if anyone wants to, in addition to the fact that she helped people.


As I said, she got me to Look. No doubt you have. But time matches on, and things need repeating.

For what does the COS do in their endless repeating of promo and letters to CF and Promo out stat at low cost?

You get it, or are you thick? Stop with the stupid questions, LOL

It works both ways, get it?

There are new members here all the time. Get it or are you thick?
 
I don't think anyone is arguing against you, that Cook helped you and many others by writing the email.

You seem to see it as an either-or thing.....If she helped you and others personally, then that is all there is to say or enquire about Cook's settlement. There are lots of things to think about, if anyone wants to, in addition to the fact that she helped people.

As I said, she got me to Look. No doubt you have. But time matches on, and things need repeating.

For what does the COS do in their endless repeating of promo and letters to CF and Promo out stat at low cost?

You get it, or are you thick? Stop with the stupid questions, LOL

It works both ways, get it?

There are new members here all the time. Get it or are you thick?

My post was not meant to be confrontational or insulting in any way. In the first sentence I was making an effort to say I get where you're coming from.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
snip...

The only only fucking handling is that there are no clears or OT's or space asnonauts. And fuk'in scientology is but a scam and a PR and Marketing scheme hidden under religion.

...snip..

Why don't you nitpick about the scam of it all... snip....

..Snip....

But what gets me is......

How many deaths of Cult Members while at Flag....must Debbie Cook have information about?

How many "cover ups" must she have been involved in?

How many blows....were brought back....under her Command...?

Certainly it is a huge number of which many are found in the detailed stories of ex-scientologist...and which certainly can be seen as torts and crimes under the laws of many nations

No, they [ CLEAR AND OT ] don't exist which ..

POINTS to the beginning of the whole 65 years of fraudulent claim of a bridge to get to the Non-extant states

In a situation like this, I always wonder why now? Why is Rinder bringing this all up now?

Is it because of her book? Or is the other shoe about to drop?

And what's the other shoe?

I suggest it will only drop when enough lawmakers, law enforcement and departments of justice are not being manipulated through PR, Blackmail and unscrupulous mis-use of the legal and justice systems or if we will call it for what it is... fear tactics and even psycho-political-financial terrorism. Perhaps Santa Claus and his merry little elves are hard at work preparing the shoes for a Christmas gift.

When she said she knew where the bodies were hidden, I didn't get the sense she was speaking metaphorically.

So ...since Debbie didn't reveal ALL that she knew, but only turned the screws (state's evidence) partially until she got offered clemency from scientology, when will the duty bound government bodies pull the string and obtain and use what she knew and Marty and Mike and others know and take the gloves off and reveal and prosecute in full technical colour. Isn't it their duty as part of the government of the people, by the people and for the people and be effective with the votes and the good will and the taxes at their disposal?

Surely, just because a whistleblower gets some compensation I don't see any reason for the full capabilities of the government to not follow through, digging well below the tip of the iceberg from Hell and get all the data and evidence from those whistleblowers and acquire whatever restitution is possible for the multitude of remaining victims.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't think it is fair to claim this is like a David and Goliath. I don't know my history well but perhaps it took more than one battle to bring about the Fall of Rome. And I suggest it is not really fair to belittle those brave enough to take up arms and lead or at the least fight prior the coming legion of a growing army which is weakening and which will hopefully defeat utterly the despicable beast.

Don't we honour our veterans and compensate them for their contribution even though individually they did not individually win the war but rather gave their best and retreated under the cover and protection of their fellow combatants?

This is not a praise of all the wrongs that were done by Debbie while under the 'influence' but a recognition of the benefits so many will receive from her email and testimony in court regardless of the underlying motives be they solely self preservation and or co-joined by an awakening and a regained sense of reality and some sort of attempt at redemption.

...





def.

PC's PECULIAR PECUNIARY PARADOX: The irreconcilably hypocritical event wherein a conscientious ex-Scn whistleblower (who has been ranting & reporting on the cult's financial abuse, corruption & fraud) takes a gargantuan financial settlement from Scientology--who pays them with loads of cash coerced from the very same victims that their financial whistleblowing was ostensibly intended to help.
 

Billy Blinder

Patron with Honors
I don't think it is fair to claim this is like a David and Goliath. I don't know my history well but perhaps it took more than one battle to bring about the Fall of Rome. And I suggest it is not really fair to belittle those brave enough to take up arms and lead or at the least fight prior the coming legion of a growing army which is weakening and which will hopefully defeat utterly the despicable beast.

Don't we honour our veterans and compensate them for their contribution even though individually they did not individually win the war but rather gave their best and retreated under the cover and protection of their fellow combatants?

This is not a praise of all the wrongs that were done by Debbie while under the 'influence' but a recognition of the benefits so many will receive from her email and testimony in court regardless of the underlying motives be they solely self preservation and or co-joined by an awakening and a regained sense of reality and some sort of attempt at redemption.

I agree with what you post.

But I do believe HH was only pointing out the paradox of scientology, in general, but with a specific example.

It's too bad we don't have other high ups in scientology that could send a similar e-mail to the crowd of scientology public. Mike and Marty, and the Headleys all blew and did not sign NDA's nor get $50,000 initial leaving staff proper routing form money. While, of course, lower ranked (unknownable about the actual goings on with DM and only got maybe $500).

Debbie Cook was in a very unique situation having been not declared, and having many public scientology connections. In essence she had the COS mailing list, which Hubbard said was one of the most important things. And she used it proper.

PS. In the wog world, companies pay for mailing lists, and companies create mailing lists, all to sell their wares, as you know.
 
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