Debbie Cook's Trial

[Kookaburra]

What I am hoping is that Debbie is not actually in it for the money. I am hoping that she is still a raving fanatical Scientology idealist, whose aim is to EXPOSE the current sorry state of her religion.

While she deludedly continues to try to "save her religion" from the evils of DM, in fact, what she will be doing is bringing it down.

Debbie, please continue as a devoted zealot!

The only remotest possibility of Scientology being "saved" at the moment is if it collapses completely. That is the level of shake-up it needs even begin to sort out the mess that it's in. That should wake up most of the zombies that are just going along with things and ignoring the evidence. It would require every individual in Scientology to thoroughly re-evaluate every bit of it and participate in cleaning it up. Full disclosure of everything and a grass roots sort-out.

Won't happen.

Quote Originally Posted by NoName View Post
Can someone please tell me wtf she is referring to?

"But I am still an important part of the biggest cover up in Scientology history.
And for that, I expect a certain quid pro quo."

Is this Lisa MacPherson's death? What happened to Shelley? What happened to LRH? Inurement?

Seriously, does anyone here know wtf? Can anyone speculate?

Thanks for pointing out that tidbit.

There have been so many! Maybe even something not yet leaked. Trying to take the POV of a still-believing 30 year veteran SO member, my guess is the absolute biggest one would be the circumstances of LRH's death, followed closely by the machinations surrounding his estate and the leadership and structure of the church (oh, that's what you meant by inutrement, right?) I've not heard of Debbie having been directly involved in any of that, but who knows. Maybe she never considered there was anything irregular about all that, and believed what she was told. If so, it was something that came afterwards, and again, there have been so damn many to choose from.

Perhaps Debbie expected that remark to elicit a MWH response.

Debbie was nowhere around LRH at his death and had nothing to do with his estate. She was an Intern sup at Flag around that time.

She was, however, CO of the org in which Lisa MacPherson was C/S'd by David Miscavige, which led to her meltdown and subsequent incarceration and death. There was no way she wasn't involved in this and no way she doesn't have ALL the dirt on it.

I do hope that the CoS doesn't back out of this case before this gets aired in court. DM could be up for murder after all.

 

[ClearEyed]

The only remotest possibility of Scientology being "saved" at the moment is if it collapses completely. That is the level of shake-up it needs even begin to sort out the mess that it's in. That should wake up most of the zombies that are just going along with things and ignoring the evidence. It would require every individual in Scientology to thoroughly re-evaluate every bit of it and participate in cleaning it up. Full disclosure of everything and a grass roots sort-out.

Won't happen.



Debbie was nowhere around LRH at his death and had nothing to do with his estate. She was an Intern sup at Flag around that time.

She was, however, CO of the org in which Lisa MacPherson was C/S'd by David Miscavige, which led to her meltdown and subsequent incarceration and death. There was no way she wasn't involved in this and no way she doesn't have ALL the dirt on it.

I do hope that the CoS doesn't back out of this case before this gets aired in court. DM could be up for murder after all.

I completely agree with your first point. The whole damn thing has to be dissolved, put into receivership and some sort of funds or trusts established to help those who've been damaged, and help the remaining SO members make new lives for themselves.

If anyone still wants to do scientology in the field, let them, but without the ill gotten gains from corporate scientology.

Thanks for clarifying on Debbie's threat. I kinda figured that.

 

[degraded being]

I completely agree with your first point. The whole damn thing has to be dissolved, put into receivership and some sort of funds or trusts established to help those who've been damaged, and help the remaining SO members make new lives for themselves.

If anyone still wants to do scientology in the field, let them, but without the ill gotten gains from corporate scientology.

Thanks for clarifying on Debbie's threat. I kinda figured that.

I wonder how the amount of money put in by the big payers will affect the break up of the cult. Their money is already down the gurgler, but they don't know that. When they see that all that money they put in is not going to maintain their version of what the nightmare should be, there will be some desperate squabbles to get back their "investment". That could hasten the collapse, but will probably happen suddenly near the end.
Any ideas on that?

 

[ClearEyed]

I wonder how the amount of money put in by the big payers will affect the break up of the cult. Their money is already down the gurgler, but they don't know that. When they see that all that money they put in is not going to maintain their version of what the nightmare should be, there will be some desperate squabbles to get back their "investment". That could hasten the collapse, but will probably happen suddenly near the end.
Any ideas on that?

I guess they would have to make claims of sort. Maybe it would be handled similarly to Enron, or Bernie Madoff. Except in those cases, there wasn't much money left, and the church reportedly has multi-millions in reserves. Maybe Hellofahoax can weigh in on this. But I'll tell you what. No matter what the scenario, some lawyers are gonna make a lot of money out of it.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Is Xenu there?

Only in spirit.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Latest updates. This isn't the Debbie Cook Trail. This is a hearing on the TRO that the cult has on Debbie and Wayne.


8:49 am. Ray Jeffrey just entered Judge Pozza's court with his two assistants. We're waiting now for her to get to the Cook case. She's got a line of attorneys at the bench, waiting to learn what court they'll be in today.

8:55 am. In walk Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder. They clean up well.

​

9:09 am. Pozza now reading the docket. Just met Joe Childs. Hot damn.

9:30 am. It's Judge Martha Tanner. We're headed for the 4th floor.

Rathbun: "They moved to exclude the media. She told them to shove it."

Judge Tanner's bench is decorated with the following signs...

"The witch is in"

"Yes I'm a witch, deal with it"

And

"Thou shalt not whine"

Three television cameras showed up. They're setting up one to serve as a pool feed.

Tom Tobin just introduced himself to me. What a hell of a thing.

Debbie Cook and Wayne Baumgarten are now at the table with their attorney Ray Jeffrey and his two assistants. On the other side, the church appears to have five attorneys.

OOOhhh! She's a GOOD witch!

 

[Sandie]

Debbie needs to speak with the FBI.. who needs to make an unannounced visit with health officials to the "Hole".

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[namaste]

Debbie needs to speak with the FBI.. who needs to make an unannounced visit with health officials to the "Hole".

But haven't the FBI already been made well aware, by others, of these atrocities and haven't the FBI chosen to ignore them.
I think that DM/CoS has some dirt on the government which is not surprising, knowing our government.
I read on some post a little while back that DM & Rathbun, if I recall correctly, stormed into an office of the IRS? unannounced and had a little talk with someone before they were granted their tax-free status.
I wish I knew what that was all about. My guess is the the truth of that meeting will come out eventually.

If not, I'm afraid we may have to take the matter into our own hands one day -- the freeing of the prisoners at Int base (or wherever they have been moved to now) that is -- having given our government their fair chance to make it right in a "lawful" manner.

 

[NoName]

Sorry, I don't know how to do a quote within a quote. So hopefully this makes sense.

Well I think Baker just cleared this up.

I was speaking about Truman specifically. Roosevelt and Stalin actually were on somewhat good terms, as I understand it, so the alliance was not morally repugnant for FDR like it was for Truman. He did continue a pre-existing alliance made by FDR, but qualified his willingness to do so with this real gem of a quote that I can't find right now. Basically that he'd be willing to arm and support whichever side (Hitler or Stalin) in order to bring about mutually assured destruction.

That sums up how I feel about most of Scientology both in and outside the Co$.

You omit something rather important. The troops were sent to the Soviet Union in 1919. And the Americans also sent troops. They left in 1920.

Methinks you are slightly mixed up on this.

That's possible, but I wasn't referring to what happened in Russia after WWI. I was referring to the Soviet Union (in the expansive sense) in '45-'46. Because I am a child of the Cold War and admit that what I was referring to may have been revisionist history. But I was referring to some former British Colonies and attempted British Colonies bit further south than what went on in 1919-1920. The way I heard it, the British were the boots on the ground assisting what was mainly done by the natives of the various central-Asian republics (Iran, Iraq, and some of the "--stan"s), and the Americans threw money at it (just as they did Greece and Turkey rather than deploying troops).

But in the U.S. this barely gets mentioned in general college history courses (maybe 1-2 sentences before the Marshall Plan and Truman Doctrine), and the place I learned about it happening as a cold war kid in the 60's had some motivation to revise.

The U.S. did have boots on the ground in Germany and Central/Western Europe, but that wasn't disputed Soviet territory. That's a whole separate ball of wax, though.

to each his own.

Agreed. You know 10 years ago I was appalled that the Taliban was using U.S. weapons (freely given to fight the Soviets in the 80's) against U.S. soldiers. But the more I think about it, there is some security in knowing what it is that one will be fighting. Like I'd much rather know what got sent to Afghanistan than have this big mystery surrounding the "major nuclear advance" that Iran is going to be announcing in the coming days. That scares me far more than knowing that Afghans have some obsolete U.S. military equipment (that was obsolete when they got it in the 80's).

No matter how thin you slice bread it will always have two sides, right?

 

[NoName]

A cycle of violence has long permeated in the Church of Scientology, and it hasn't just been DM doing the punching. What people outside the cult, and the media have a hard time understanding is why Scilons didn't stand up to the abuse? People have a hard time sympathizing with others who relent to being human punching bags.

I don't know about that. A lot of advocacy groups have gone to great lengths to try and educate people about domestic violence and why people stay in those situations. It really wouldn't take much to make an analogy with domestic violence and Davey Boy. Particularly since Davey Boy is in charge of your eternity, whereas an abusive spouse may only be in charge of your wallet.

 

[cayce-case-um]

No matter how thin you slice bread it will always have two sides, right?

Can't resist -- sorry: Not if it is the heel, and not if you give it a half twist and make a one-sided Moebius strip.

 

[Stat]

This meme humbly tendered as a gif to mankind.

​

I would totally rather lick the bathroom floor vs. trying to push a peanut round the decks with my nose. http://www.forum.exscn.net/blog.php?13371688-Sautez&do=comments

"He (Guess who? Not DM.) could be capable of incredible cruelty. On the ship there was an old man on the Royal Scotman who he made push a peanut round the decks with his nose. He had to get down on his hands and knees, he had to go round the deck, quite a long distance in a race with one or two others also in trouble. The first one back got let off and the last one got a double penalty. It was really tough on this old guy, Charlie Reisdorf (Must be a fictional character). The surface of the deck was very rough wood, prone to splinter, so after pushing peanuts with their noses, they all had raw, bleeding noses, leaving a trail of blood behind them. I not only saw it but the entire crew of the ship was mustered - a mandatory attendance - we were required to watch this punishment, to make an example of it for the rest of us. Reisdorf was in his late 50s probably. His two daughters were messengers, they were 11 or 12 at time and his wife was there also. It was hard to say which was worse to watch: this old guy with a bleeding nose or his wife and kids sobbing and crying at being forced to watch this. Hubbard was standing there calling the shots, yelling, "Faster, Faster!". It was indignity, degradation and breaking a person's will, and making people watch. It was disgusting."

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/bfm/interviews/mayo.htm

Ahh, that's one way to make amends in the most sane, ethical group!

You people are so off the rails and not appreciative! (Sarcasm).

 

[Kookaburra]

Hey, I was going to recommend to Gadfly that you be the one to break this down today. Fine job and thank you as my mind was not up to it as I have been on this board until 4 or 5 am practically every night this week.

Don't mean to derail. Carry on.

Well, I guess that's what you have to do to stay on top of it. I'm about 200 posts behind ATM. And that's just this thread!

 

[cayce-case-um]

Cook vs. Miscavige vs. Hubbard -- narcissistic leadership styles?

​

1. "Researchers found that people who score high in narcissism tend to take control of leaderless groups" Winner: Miscavige

​

2. "Narcissists profess company loyalty but are only really committed to their own agendas, thus organizational decisions are founded on the narcissist's own interests rather than the interests of the organization as a whole, the various stakeholders, or the society in which the organization operates.[7] As a result, "a certain kind of charismatic leader can run a financially successful company on thoroughly unhealthy principles for a time. But... the chickens always come home to roost." http://www.grandiosity.net/narcissistic_leaders/encyclopedia.htm; Winner: Miscavige (whatever else one thinks about Cook, she appears loyal to Hubbard, misguided though that may be); maybe Hubbard gets a half-point if he only was a half true believer in his own work

​

3. "productive narcissists still tend to be over-sensitive to criticism, over-competitive, isolated, and grandiose," but considered that "what draws them out is that they have a sense of freedom to do whatever they want rather than feeling constantly constrained by circumstances," and that through their charisma they are able to "draw people into their vision, and produce a cohort of disciples who will pursue the dream for all it's worth."http://www.grandiosity.net/narcissistic_leaders/encyclopedia.htm: Winner LRH; DM possibly disqualifies himself by failing to have the ability to keep a cohort of disciples in any way but fear (what if the gnostic book of Thomas we found out that Jesus had sent his top disciples to a little torture/prison camp whenever they couldn't get their minds right -- that's the genius/stupidity of DM: if you decapitate the leadership of your organization, you have proven one thing -- you are an idiot)

​

4. "Narcissistic rage is the uncontrollable and unexpected anger that results from a narcissistic injury - a threat to a narcissist's self-esteem or worth. Rage comes in many forms, but all pertain to the same important thing, revenge. Narcissistic rages are based on fear and will endure even after the threat is gone .... To the narcissist, the rage is directed towards the person that they feel has slighted them; to other people, the rage is incoherent and unjust. This rage impairs their cognition, therefore impairing their judgment. During the rage they are prone to shouting, fact distortion and making groundless accusations." http://www.grandiosity.net/narcissistic_rage_and_narcissistic_injury/encyclopedia.htm; Winner: DM seems to have taken LRH's narcissism to new heights (or depths)

​

5. "Malignant narcissism has been described as "an extreme form of antisocial personality disorder that is manifest in a person who is pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation, and with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty and sadism" http://www.grandiosity.net/malignant_narcissism/encyclopedia.htm; Winner: DM (this one is more of a theoretical category in that dreaded, worthless, SP study of the mind and behavior known as psychology -- as LRH would say about psychology, "nothing to see here folks, move along." But if one studies the excellent reasoning, research, logic, analysis, observation, and hypothesis testing that goes into any of the social sciences, one will wonder why Scientology says "stay away" -- could it be that there are truths there that CoS does not want known?

So out of 5 narcissistic leader problem traits, DM seems to lead on 4, LRH on 1 (and maybe a close second to DM), and Cook comes in last as the loser. Wait -- low score comes in as best. Cook comes in as the winner.

 

[Thrak]

OK, another rant (albeit brief) from me ... I seem to be into ranting lately.

I think you folks who are dismissive of Debbie and her analytical abilities concerning the Church of Scientology, the Scientology philosophy, L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige are effing silly.

You apparently expect her to believe exactly the same things you believe -- although she has likely not read what you've read, discussed what you've discussed, and she has certainly had significantly different experiences and a life than you've had.

You're all offended that she doesn't think L. Ron Hubbard was an espee? Why in hell would you (realistically) think she would at this point in her escape from the bubble of the Cult of $cientology?

You just heard her say she is learning for the first time about the rights and support available to her through the justice system, right?

You understand that she's very distracted by and struggling with her medical sitch, right?

You understand that until lately she's been very much inside the Church of Scientology bubble, right?

You understand that she's directing most of her communications to in-good-standing Scientologists from the only position of power she still has available to her -- as the once-respected position she held at Flag, right?

What part of G R A D I E N T do you not understand?

(That's only slightly a Scientology joke.)

In contrast to Debbie's evolution -- or instead, call it "learning from life" -- how long did it take for you to arrive atop your current mountain of omniscience?

If you're lucky, in five or ten years you'll look back on these years and realize what a stupid arse you were, too.

TG1

I basically agree with you. I've gone back and forth on the subject but believe she handled this thing flawlessly and my hat is off to her. Who knows what conclusion she eventually comes to about Hubbard. But right now I think it is more effective with her current stance as the main objective at the moment is to relieve Tiny Dim of his duties. If she were to come out slugging against ElRon, she would only lose the people who she needs to reach the most.

So go Debbie! She has a long way to go and a lot to learn being on the outside now but I think she's no pushover and is going to be a major torpedo to everybody's favorite asshole.

 

[Stat]

This is going to be a win!

(Just because I like the smell of pop-corn.)

 

[Lulu Belle]

Using the O.J. trial is not a fair comparison, because it is well-known that alot of racial & environmental biases played a part in the "not guilty" verdict in the criminal trial. Several African-American jurors in that trial have since admitted that their jury decision was based on safety concerns... after the trial, they had to return to & live in communities that would have been unsafe for them if they had found O.J. guilty.

That's very interesting. I didn't know that.

 

[Pooks]

As I've been joyously watching the Debbie Cook Saga play out for the past 6 weeks
I've had this continuing thought that we're all being played.

Call me Tin Foil Annie, but knowing how Marty is a big Sun-Tzu and the The Art of War fan (required reading for OSA) and is toadly at WAR with DM, I can't help but feel that this is a well planned scheme by Debbie, Marty, Mike and the Big Thetans in the "Indie" community, in a major attempt to take down.DM. It's just one step in the "BIG PLAN TO END THE WAR WITH DM".

Marty has just been too loud about how Debbie wouldn't talk to him. It was just too well organized on such a short notice. Of course, Marty explains it in today's post about how it all pretty much came together because the Indies are so OT and so awesome, when in fact, my guess is that there was lots of back line planning with only the most trusted involved, because that's how Scientologists, especially ones with OSA training. roll. When I worked for OSA one of the favor quotes was "the best OP is one that is never found out about".

We are all players in Marty's game.

I'm not saying it going to happen in the next few months, but I think that this poster on WWP pretty much nailed a large part of Debbie's and Marty's plan.

Whether Debbie will be the Queen or Marty, the King is yet to be established.

https://whyweprotest.net/community/...aring-update-thread.99943/page-9#post-2053134

I'm afraid that this goes along lines I could foresee. Deb Cook HAS TO keep drinking the Koolaide b/c after all doesn't she now make an established living from her Scilon contacts - doing "marketing"? She was the top of the top and certainly is ambitious enough to want to be High Priestess of the New Reformed Church Of Scientology. The way to do that is to NOT take the church down in flames. Just:

1. Deliver enough mortal blows to Poop Davey to have him removed from his post and put permanently in a luxurious little padded cell under church care (NO heretical layman's psychiatric facility for him)

2. Get oneself declared the Keeper of the Flame by all remaining Scilons both those in and out (with lots of help from Marty who gets a tasty position in return.)

3. Physically occupy the ample real estate holdings of CO$, introduce "Reform Tech" and appoint staff to implement it, whatever it needs to be. Mostly it will be blame anything and everything that gives Scientology a bad name on Davey whether tru or no (i.e. disconnection) while continuing to sanctify LRH.

4. Get everyone busy busy busy rebuilding morale, getting stats up, and attracting new members (who better than Get It Done Debbie for this enormous task)

5. Debbie the Scilon High Priestess and Keeper of the Flame is now fully vindicated against the mini Poop Davey and now runs everything "just so" by the grace of Elron. Win.

Unfortunately this scenario creates a somewhat reformed CO$ that isn't totally batshit crazee. A CO$ that is no more crazy than nasty Catholic officials feeling up children and beating them for decades, or Evangelical preachers hungry for mideast wars and Endtimes. In other words a tolerable CO$ fully loaded with IRS protection, millions probably billions of dollars of valuable real estate assets, high profile stars who will be able to say "oh I am so glad my church is reformed now and I can really be OUT about it" and etc... A reformed CO$ that doesn't arbitrarily throw out its best people, beat on people or abuse them too bad in RPF can't help but survive and prosper, because for some freaky reason I still haven't been able to fully grok, insane drug addled Hubbard's formula for cult building basically does work. In a time of corporations being declared people, no one is going to care in the dystopian near future that a church charges money for its spiritual tenets.

A new and reformed CO$ is our worst nightmare. And Debbie Cook has it within her grasp to accomplish just such a thing.

Also, Debbie mentions being part of the "biggest cover up in Scn history" I can only imagine that this is the Lisa McPherson case and knows the true extent of DM's and the cults crimes.

What ever it is, she needs to fess up.

Debbie is doing the right thing. But don't forget she's still very indoctrinated and until she wakes up and comes to her senses and takes responsibility for her part in the evils committed on others, she's not to be counted on.

 

[Lulu Belle]

As I've been joyously watching the Debbie Cook Saga play out for the past 6 weeks
I've had this continuing thought that we're all being played....
https://whyweprotest.net/community/...aring-update-thread.99943/page-9#post-2053134

Well, Pooks, you pulled me right in to going to that thread on WWP. I try to stay away from that place.

One of the gems I encountered:

I sent Debbie a $100. Hell, I'll pay that to watch two monkeys fuck.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Interesting viewpoint on the WWP thread from someone who is an ex whose family is still in.

She has a point.

Am I pissed she hasn't gone to the FBI? Not really. Honestly, has that avenue given us anything yet? The Feds have already heard about the crimes and they are doing f*ck all about it. I'm pissed at the Feds for this. I don't blame her for trying a new tactic. So far I'm enjoying the result. Email went viral, scilons flipped out. Fun. Facebook was funny and fail. DM got livid. We have had rare light shed on Davey in open court in front of TV cameras. Lots of horrifying details are now reaching new people via the press. I can honestly say that a few short years ago I never could have dreamed that we would have made this much progress. This is some quality entertainment. I am pretty happy and I invite Anons to join me for a bowl of buttery popcorn and a silly cat themed dance.