Debbie's Interview

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
After watching the VV videos, judging by his body language as well as the things he said in the interview, I think Debbie's lawyer is baffled beyond belief by his client's reticence -- he's had to coax her to talk about what happened to her, to draw her out.

Because it would have reflected badly on scientology, she would never have told about these horrors had she not been sued, brought to court to testify, and thus been coaxed by her attorney to reveal what she had experienced.

Here she is, after all that she endured, still extolling the virtues of scientology and Hubbard! concerned that her religion is going to be thought badly of!

The depth of abuse that individuals will endure in order to protect the "good name" of scientology is astounding; and I think her lawyer also finds it astounding. From her body language, as well as what she actually says, I think she thinks this kind of "dedication" is the height of nobility and honor.

The rest of us (possibly including her attorney) just find it crazy.

When asked when she would have walked away from it if she had not been confined by security, she says the day after she was put in the Hole...

...which means she would have willingly continued through such things as the extreme schedule where she could eat only every other day, sleep only every other day.

A "normal" person would have walked away from that madness long, long before!

It's as though she (and no doubt sooooo many others) have been implanted with a kamikaze mentality. Brainwashing on display in all its glory.

I'm gobsmacked. Words fail.

Olska you are so right. It took me ages to pluck up the courage to mention that I'd been thrown in the lake, not allowed to moonlight when I had no money and consequently nearly starved, had hallucinations from lack of food and sleep and so on. There was always the implanted idea that the church was good but some people temporarily dramatised evil. Hold the pain in and just keep quiet about the evil.

She's learning, she's not going to be fast but that enormous wall is not far from her face and she will climb it. Then she will be able to see reality, it's a big thing for her to do and quite honestly she probably just needs food and sleep for a few weeks right now.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Thanks for posting the links. I watched all of the vids but the last one is the most revealing. Revealing in the sense of laying bare the extreme cognitive dissidence in Debbie's mind. She absolutely believes that disconnection was cancelled in the late 1960's and states it emphatically. And that it was brought back by DM. A perfect example of brainwashing if there ever was one.

Let's hope that the brainwashing eventually wears off. In the meantime, so it doesn't spread "outside the CofS," empowered by the "Good" Scientologist vs the "popularly considered evil" (Miscavige, i.e. the Bad Scientologist) propaganda technique, every bit of realistic information re. Scientology's doctrine is helpful. Here's an explanation, in brown, of 1970s Disconnection from a poster, called "Xenu," on Tony Ortega's Blog.

Xenu in reply to Sketto:

Since I worked for HCO [Hubbard Communications Office] during the 1970s, I'd thought I'd chime in with what I personally witnessed during those years.

Hubbard actually did cancel disconnection, after Australia had cracked down, and New Zealand was on the verge of outlawing the cult. Not only did he cancel disconnection, but he also banned Fair Game, sec checks, and the recording of what went on in auditing sessions. Way cool, huh?

The only problem was that the policy letter cancelling those things was only issued to the New Zealand government commission that was considering the banning of Scientology.
[note: It was also mentioned in a few other places, such a PR book written for Scientology, and, as I recall, an article, written by Hubbard, for the 'Mayfair', etc., and there was a show made of displaying Hubbard's 1968 faux "Reform Code" for "wogs" and "raw meat."]

I oversaw a ton of disconnection during the 1970s, and had to disconnect from a couple of people myself. I personally saw that they continued to happen at major Class IV [now called Class V] and SO [Sea Org] orgs just as they always had. Nothing changed... Sec checks and Fair Game continued, despite the wholly disingenuous sham of policy change.

Andre Tabayoyon, and various other poster here, who were in HCO in the '70s, can easily vouch for me on this
...

Here's some more from Xenu over at Tony O's at the Village Voice:

...Hubbard was getting a lot of PR flack over disconnection, so he wrote a policy which would help PR a lot without changing anything significant. I'm sure it was meant to be misunderstood by outsiders...

The policy did NOT cancel disconnection, rather it said that 'disconnection as a condition' was cancelled. Now, one might well ask, WTF is 'disconnection as a condition'?

If you dig through some ancient ethics folders, you would find that they would often explicitly state that the subject of the ethics order was to disconnect from one or more other parties who would be named in the ethics order, and that reinstatement to good standing would not happen until that had been done. THAT was disconnection as a condition.

So we stopped naming names of people to be disconnected from in ethics orders. Instead, Type A PTS would be told that they had to handle or disconnect, and if handling was impossible, well, too bad! And people still had to disconnect from SPs... the Nov '68 policy had no real impact other than PR.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
(Quoted)

If you dig through some ancient ethics folders, you would find that they would often explicitly state that the subject of the ethics order was to disconnect from one or more other parties who would be named in the ethics order, and that reinstatement to good standing would not happen until that had been done. THAT was disconnection as a condition.

Ah. Thank you. First time I ever saw that explained.

Paul
 

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
I found the interview disappointing, as she is obviously treading very carefully in what she says.
It reminds of people who were kidnapped for years and at the end say to interviewers, press etc that they were actually treated very well and "good" to them and speak about a sort of special relationship built toward the kidnappers.
I think there is even a tehnical term for this, maybe solmebody knows it.

For somebody who is meat to have been "tough" and very "OT", and I don't see much left of that.
She is insecure and not very eloquent either.
The amount of times she says "you know" is also baffling.
Her "stable datum" seems to be what she learnt in $cientology about history and how "great tyrants" were removed etc, which she attmpts to explain several times.
Where is the "tech" she learnt?
Why is her communication very vague for somebody who is "OT" ?
For somebody who had hundreds of people under her as a top exec.

When it comes to the crunch, after all these years of "learning how to know" she sums it up with somethingh about "Mr. Hubbard was good and kind", and Mr. Miscavige is not.
When he asks about how this can be changed, she cannot even bring herselef to the obvious conclusion of saying :
" well I think Mr. Miscavige must go"
for example.
She then tried to explain again how this had often happened before in history etc etc.

As somebody said before, she is the prefect example of a brainwashed cult member.

I beleive a nice cup of tea and sit down and chat with soembody like Tory Christman would do her good, but she is not reasdy for that yet.

This is not a woman who has planned "things into every detail", as some have said. IMO
 

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
anser to my own question:

It's called Stockholm Syndrome or capture-bonding
Stockholm syndrome is when a captive begins to feel loyalty to their captor and sides with them or defends them. The name referes to a 1973 bank robbery in which the victims publicly defended the bank robbers after the situation resolved. I think it’s a psychological defense mechanism that helps a person deal with abnormal situations. By siding or sympathizing with the kidnapper, one can rationalize the situation and deal with it more readily in psychological terms. Another idea would be of identifying with someone in a position of power regardless of the extreme circumstances.
These kinds of things are also seen in abusive relationships. Everyone wonders why someone stays in them even if the victim gets beaten close to death. I think victims falling in love with their kidnappers is just an extension of all of this and taking the next step.
One famous example is of Patty Hearst helping her kidnappers with a robbery.
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/church-of-scientology-cancels-disconnection/

Disconnection was reinstated by HCO Bulletin of 10 September 1983, “PTSness and Disconnection.” The Bulletin noted that “Earlier, disconnection as a condition was cancelled,” and stated it was “hereby restored to use, in the hands of those persons thoroughly and standardly trained in PTS/SP tech.”

The only problem? It wasn’t written by LRH. According to a statement by the late Robert Vaughn Young, “…The directive that I wrote concerned the Scientology policy of ‘Disconnection.’ The order to do this came from David Miscavige. Miscavige said that we had to reinstitute the Policy of Disconnection and that I was to write the policy for this. I wrote it and it went through several revisions. It was not sent to Hubbard for his approval, but was issued into the Church of Scientology.”

With all due respect sir, I witnessed disconnection at the mission level in 1978-1980 in Tampa. It WAS in effect. If you were in contact with an SP, that is ANYONE who was critical of scientology, you were strongly urged to not have any contact with them. And that if you maintained contact it would impact your 'progress up the bridge'.

At first you were to 'handle' that person; be they your friend or your parents. If 'handling' them did not suffice, then you were to stop communicating with them. Perhaps the word 'disconnection' was not used, I don't remember, but cutting off communication WAS urged and ultimately demanded. I came very close to disconnecting from my own parents.

This was hubbard ethics tech in action. NEVER did the EO (ethics officer) urge people to ignore the SPs or just shrug off their objections to scientology. No. Nothing short of total disconnection was acceptable. And we all know now why that is: criticism raises doubt. Doubt makes one question what they are learning or reading. Questioning leads one to realize that hubbard was not ALWAYS right and the house of cards comes tumbling down. And there goes the income.

Repeating the mantra that it was DM who re-instituted disconnection is disingenuous at best and is, frankly, a lie to those of us who experienced it first hand. I don't know when you were in the church, but if was in that time period, then you are deluding yourself to believe DM was behind re-instating the disconnection policy. It was present and enforced.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
With all due respect sir, I witnessed disconnection at the mission level in 1978-1980 in Tampa. It WAS in effect. If you were in contact with an SP, that is ANYONE who was critical of scientology, you were strongly urged to not have any contact with them. And that if you maintained contact it would impact your 'progress up the bridge'.

At first you were to 'handle' that person; be they your friend or your parents. If 'handling' them did not suffice, then you were to stop communicating with them. Perhaps the word 'disconnection' was not used, I don't remember, but cutting off communication WAS urged and ultimately demanded. I came very close to disconnecting from my own parents.

This was hubbard ethics tech in action. NEVER did the EO (ethics officer) urge people to ignore the SPs or just shrug off their objections to scientology. No. Nothing short of total disconnection was acceptable. And we all know now why that is: criticism raises doubt. Doubt makes one question what they are learning or reading. Questioning leads one to realize that hubbard was not ALWAYS right and the house of cards comes tumbling down. And there goes the income.

Repeating the mantra that it was DM who re-instituted disconnection is disingenuous at best and is, frankly, a lie to those of us who experienced it first hand. I don't know when you were in the church, but if was in that time period, then you are deluding yourself to believe DM was behind re-instating the disconnection policy. It was present and enforced.

:thumbsup:

I had the same experiences. I got involved in Scientology in Boston in 1976, an then went to NY in 1977. I was in the Sea Org. I was on a few Comm Evs and Review Comm Evs. SP declares and disconnection, as the traditonal political tool of Scientology, were alive and well.

The list of High Crimes goes back to the early 1960s! "Supporting any declared SP" has always been a suppressive act, and that has ALWAYS been understood to mean that ANY COMMUNCIATION OF ANY FORM was NOT allowed with ANY declared SP. Whether it was called "disconnection" or labeled as "disconnection" is irrelevant. The PRACTICE itself has always been standard operating procedure (SOP) in Scientology. Hubbard can be thanked for THAT - not DM.

Veda will post the actual exact reference below . . . . .

Hubbard began the practice as a way to 1) get rid of undesirables and to 2) segregate the flock away from ANY and ALL "unwanted contrary views" (counter-intention or other-intention). He did that under a slick guise of "ethics and justice". That some people refuse to see this only tells me the amazing degree of denial that some people can easily undergo to continue mantaining their pet delusions, ideals and fantasies.

DM may have issued something in writing in 1983, BUT that only put into words what had been going on for years anyway.
 

Veda

Sponsor
With all due respect sir, I witnessed disconnection at the mission level in 1978-1980 in Tampa. It WAS in effect. If you were in contact with an SP, that is ANYONE who was critical of scientology, you were strongly urged to not have any contact with them. And that if you maintained contact it would impact your 'progress up the bridge'.

At first you were to 'handle' that person; be they your friend or your parents. If 'handling' them did not suffice, then you were to stop communicating with them. Perhaps the word 'disconnection' was not used, I don't remember, but cutting off communication WAS urged and ultimately demanded. I came very close to disconnecting from my own parents.

This was hubbard ethics tech in action. NEVER did the EO (ethics officer) urge people to ignore the SPs or just shrug off their objections to scientology. No. Nothing short of total disconnection was acceptable. And we all know now why that is: criticism raises doubt. Doubt makes one question what they are learning or reading. Questioning leads one to realize that hubbard was not ALWAYS right and the house of cards comes tumbling down. And there goes the income.

Repeating the mantra that it was DM who re-instituted disconnection is disingenuous at best and is, frankly, a lie to those of us who experienced it first hand. I don't know when you were in the church, but if was in that time period, then you are deluding yourself to believe DM was behind re-instating the disconnection policy. It was present and enforced.

Here's a little more background: From Volume One of the OEC Course, HCO Division, a.k.a. a Green Volume, from 1974, HCOPL dated 23 December 1965, 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists', and on page two of that HCOPL there is a list of suppressive acts over forty lines long - most of the page.

"Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists...

"[Such suppressive acts include] public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.

"[Suppressive acts also include] continued membership in a divergent group; continued adherence to a Suppressive Person or group pronounced a Suppressive Person or group by HCO; failure to handle or disavow or disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of suppressive acts; being at the hire of anti-Scientology groups or persons..."


Disconnection was standard Scientology policy and practice in the 1970s.

When Hubbard's 1968 sham cancellation of Disconnection (and Fair Game) was seen to have created some amount of confusion, during a period of schism in the early 1980s, a decision was made to issue a reinstatement of Disconnection, but anyone seriously involved with Scientology in the 1970s knows that disconnection was never discontinued. Handle or disconnect was always standard practice, no matter how it was disguised or named.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Here's a little more background: From Volume One of the OEC Course, HCO Division, a.k.a. a Green Volume, from 1974, HCOPL dated 23 December 1965, 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists', and on page two of that HCOPL there is a list of suppressive acts over forty lines long - most of the page.

"Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists...

"[Such suppressive acts include] public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.

"[Suppressive acts also include] continued membership in a divergent group; continued adherence to a Suppressive Person or group pronounced a Suppressive Person or group by HCO; failure to handle or disavow or disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of suppressive acts; being at the hire of anti-Scientology groups or persons..."


Disconnection was standard Scientology policy and practice in the 1970s.

When Hubbard's 1968 sham cancellation of Disconnection (and Fair Game) was seen to have created some amount of confusion, during a period of schism in the early 1980s, a decision was made to issue a reinstatement of Disconnection, but anyone seriously involved with Scientology in the 1970s knows that disconnection was never discontinued. Handle or disconnect was always standard practice, no matter how it was disguised or named.

Disconnection was also in practice in the late 80s through the 90s. I was very green the first time I was routed for an ethics handling and advised that I had to handle or disconnect from friends who were rightly concerned about the changes they saw in my personality. In the 90s at Flag I was made to sit down and write out a formal disconnection letter to one of my parents because an EO said that was the only possible move to make.

Apparently the memo that it was canceled didn't make its way to the East Coast.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Two videos featuring a '60 Minutes' program from 1980, shortly after the information, resulting from the FBI raids of July 1977, was revealed by court order in late 1979, and Mary Sue Hubbard, and others, sentenced to federal prison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Qa6WIedQ0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuOBGZyfw3o&feature=related

All of the above concern events (and Scientology doctrine) of the 1970s and 1960s, and are presented to counter Scientology's - including "outside the CofS" Scientology's - relentless attempts at revising and erasing history.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
I found the interview disappointing, as she is obviously treading very carefully in what she says.
It reminds of people who were kidnapped for years and at the end say to interviewers, press etc that they were actually treated very well and "good" to them and speak about a sort of special relationship built toward the kidnappers.
I think there is even a tehnical term for this, maybe solmebody knows it.

For somebody who is meat to have been "tough" and very "OT", and I don't see much left of that.
She is insecure and not very eloquent either.
The amount of times she says "you know" is also baffling.
Her "stable datum" seems to be what she learnt in $cientology about history and how "great tyrants" were removed etc, which she attmpts to explain several times.
Where is the "tech" she learnt?
Why is her communication very vague for somebody who is "OT" ?
For somebody who had hundreds of people under her as a top exec.

When it comes to the crunch, after all these years of "learning how to know" she sums it up with somethingh about "Mr. Hubbard was good and kind", and Mr. Miscavige is not.
When he asks about how this can be changed, she cannot even bring herself to the obvious conclusion of saying :
" well I think Mr. Miscavige must go"
for example.
She then tried to explain again how this had often happened before in history etc etc.

As somebody said before, she is the prefect example of a brainwashed cult member.

I beleive a nice cup of tea and sit down and chat with soembody like Tory Christman would do her good, but she is not reasdy for that yet.

This is not a woman who has planned "things into every detail", as some have said. IMO

Thanks for this.

I think you're right about Stockholm Syndrome.

It was kinda startling to see how inarticulate she was in the interview -- you'd expect a person who was once the head honcho of such a large operation as the FSO and who managed and commanded several hundred people, as well as a huge budget, to have more "presence" in an interview in a quiet room with a small handful of media reps -- wouldn't you?

The abuse she suffered is criminal, no doubt deeply affected her, and needs to be stopped NOW. But that's not what made Debbie Cook the person she is today. This is why I say (again and again and again) that

scientology "tech" is DANGEROUS. It messes up people's minds and here is the result.

Please don't anyone try and tell me that a young girl like she once was who had been given a proper education and had not been sucked up by Hubbard's mindfuck would have turned out this way.

The ACTUAL condition of someone who was once such a "power" is shocking to me. Scary, actually.

Can't say I'm "on her side" except in a most broad and impersonal way, as I'd be "on the side" of any human being who is coming back from serious suffering.

I hope she does the cult enormous damage whether intentionally or unintentionally, and I hope she gets rested and regains (or gains for the first time...) her health -- both physical and mental health.

If this is how it is, then good luck on "rescuing" those in the Hole at INT who are stuck there because they are even more brainwashed.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks for this.

I think you're right about Stockholm Syndrome.

It was kinda startling to see how inarticulate she was in the interview -- you'd expect a person who was once the head honcho of such a large operation as the FSO and who managed and commanded several hundred people, as well as a huge budget, to have more "presence" in an interview in a quiet room with a small handful of media reps -- wouldn't you?

The abuse she suffered is criminal, no doubt deeply affected her, and needs to be stopped NOW. But that's not what made Debbie Cook the person she is today. This is why I say (again and again and again) that

scientology "tech" is DANGEROUS. It messes up people's minds and here is the result.

Please don't anyone try and tell me that a young girl like she once was who had been given a proper education and had not been sucked up by Hubbard's mindfuck would have turned out this way.

The ACTUAL condition of someone who was once such a "power" is shocking to me. Scary, actually.

Can't say I'm "on her side" except in a most broad and impersonal way, as I'd be "on the side" of any human being who is coming back from serious suffering.

I hope she does the cult enormous damage whether intentionally or unintentionally, and I hope she gets rested and regains (or gains for the first time...) her health -- both physical and mental health.

If this is how it is, then good luck on "rescuing" those in the Hole at INT who are stuck there because they are even more brainwashed.

Good post.

I don't believe brainwashing can't be undone. I don't believe that Debbie wants to harm Scientology. She's kept quiet more to protect her religion, and maybe her own ass, as she stated in her letter that she was "an important party" to the greatest coverup in Scientology history. Is she talking about Lisa McPherson or is there something we don't even know about that David Miscavige is directly behind? She may have proof. A telex, a note for a folder. Who knows what she might know and actually be able to prove in a court of law?

As for the Hole, I wish with all my heart I knew a way to have that place raided.

With all my heart.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/church-of-scientology-cancels-disconnection/

Disconnection was reinstated by HCO Bulletin of 10 September 1983, “PTSness and Disconnection.” The Bulletin noted that “Earlier, disconnection as a condition was cancelled,” and stated it was “hereby restored to use, in the hands of those persons thoroughly and standardly trained in PTS/SP tech.”

The only problem? It wasn’t written by LRH. According to a statement by the late Robert Vaughn Young, “…The directive that I wrote concerned the Scientology policy of ‘Disconnection.’ The order to do this came from David Miscavige. Miscavige said that we had to reinstitute the Policy of Disconnection and that I was to write the policy for this. I wrote it and it went through several revisions. It was not sent to Hubbard for his approval, but was issued into the Church of Scientology.”

Terril, perhaps you can help me clear up a misunderstood that I have.

If 'Disconnection' was not reinstated until 1983 as you have indicated then why is it that a Scientology course I took in 1979 (Up's and Down's in Life course - or something like it) included 'Disconnection' as a handling? :confused2:

As a 'Practical' I did on the course which was a requirement to graduate, I had to find someone at Boston org who was PTS and I did a handling on that person as per the course materials, and in this case the person disconnected from two other people. This was all under the supervision of the Course Supervisor of course since I was doing this as a student.

If 'Disconnection' was discontinued than wouldn't the course materials have been updated by 1979?

Was DM in a position back in 1979 to have squirreled LRH'es intention as you seem to be suggesting?
 
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La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Thanks for this.

I think you're right about Stockholm Syndrome.

It was kinda startling to see how inarticulate she was in the interview -- you'd expect a person who was once the head honcho of such a large operation as the FSO and who managed and commanded several hundred people, as well as a huge budget, to have more "presence" in an interview in a quiet room with a small handful of media reps -- wouldn't you?

The abuse she suffered is criminal, no doubt deeply affected her, and needs to be stopped NOW. But that's not what made Debbie Cook the person she is today. This is why I say (again and again and again) that

scientology "tech" is DANGEROUS. It messes up people's minds and here is the result.

Please don't anyone try and tell me that a young girl like she once was who had been given a proper education and had not been sucked up by Hubbard's mindfuck would have turned out this way.

The ACTUAL condition of someone who was once such a "power" is shocking to me. Scary, actually.

Can't say I'm "on her side" except in a most broad and impersonal way, as I'd be "on the side" of any human being who is coming back from serious suffering.

I hope she does the cult enormous damage whether intentionally or unintentionally, and I hope she gets rested and regains (or gains for the first time...) her health -- both physical and mental health.

If this is how it is, then good luck on "rescuing" those in the Hole at INT who are stuck there because they are even more brainwashed.

Debbie had Fybromyalgia, it's similar to my condition Chronic Fatigue Syndrome apart from the pain, she will be in a hell of a lot of pain especially when excited or stressed. The immune system and brain is in readiness for a battle, it seems to be caused by extreme stress and or overwhelm, combined with viral infection. Every case differs but it's pretty much the case. It effects the hippocampus, the same part that is effected by Alzeimer's.

There are times I know the answer's there but I just can't reach across the brain because the pathway simply isn't there, it's really weird but that's what I see happening in her head when she's talking, she's exhausted fired up with adrenaline and her heads not working as it should. At the same time she knows she's not a meat body and trying to work out how she could possibly be OT and fucked at the same time.

She's not having a good time, and 'knowing' that scientology works makes it even harder on her.

I feel for her, I understand her, I hope she overcomes her health problems and her confusions and I hope she wins against the church. I hope she learns how to see clearer.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
With all due respect sir, I witnessed disconnection at the mission level in 1978-1980 in Tampa. It WAS in effect. If you were in contact with an SP, that is ANYONE who was critical of scientology, you were strongly urged to not have any contact with them. And that if you maintained contact it would impact your 'progress up the bridge'.

At first you were to 'handle' that person; be they your friend or your parents. If 'handling' them did not suffice, then you were to stop communicating with them. Perhaps the word 'disconnection' was not used, I don't remember, but cutting off communication WAS urged and ultimately demanded. I came very close to disconnecting from my own parents.

This was hubbard ethics tech in action. NEVER did the EO (ethics officer) urge people to ignore the SPs or just shrug off their objections to scientology. No. Nothing short of total disconnection was acceptable. And we all know now why that is: criticism raises doubt. Doubt makes one question what they are learning or reading. Questioning leads one to realize that hubbard was not ALWAYS right and the house of cards comes tumbling down. And there goes the income.

Repeating the mantra that it was DM who re-instituted disconnection is disingenuous at best and is, frankly, a lie to those of us who experienced it first hand. I don't know when you were in the church, but if was in that time period, then you are deluding yourself to believe DM was behind re-instating the disconnection policy. It was present and enforced.

The word "Disconnection" WAS used during this time period. I took a course back in '79 (as indicated in my post above) and the HCOB 10 August 73 "PTS Handling" was part of the course materials and used the term.
http://www.suppressiveperson.org/sp/archives/475
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
The word "Disconnection" WAS used during this time period. I took a course back in '79 (as indicated in my post above) and the HCOB 10 August 73 "PTS Handling" was part of the course materials and used the term.
http://www.suppressiveperson.org/sp/archives/475


What you are missing entirely is that LRH is a true hero.

He personally, despite personal danger, canceled Fair Game and Disconection policies and dared to stand up against whomever the totalitarian sociopath was who invented them in the first place.

It's not important who wrote them, because we have no time for that and have to get this show on the road before our mud ball and eternities are destroyed.
 

ChurchOfCylontology

Patron with Honors
..


There is a very big difference between L. Ron Hubbard and David Miscavich.

LRH only terrorized & brutalized people who did not follow his orders.

COB only terrorized & brutalized people who did not follow his orders.​

You are missing a large element in your analysis. LRH was the one who actually wrote many inhumane/sadistic orders and then he punished people when those orders were not followed.

That puts him in a brutal tyrant class all by himself.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
What you are missing entirely is that LRH is a true hero.

He personally, despite personal danger, canceled Fair Game and Disconection policies and dared to stand up against whomever the totalitarian sociopath was who invented them in the first place.

It's not important who wrote them, because we have no time for that and have to get this show on the road before our mud ball and eternities are destroyed.

Thank-You, I just wrote up all my O/W's, cleared my MU's, and licked the bathroom floor, and now see that what you are saying is spot-on. Please accept my sincere apology for disrespecting LRH and questioning his unfailing wisdom.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Thank-You, I just wrote up all my O/W's, cleared my MU's, and licked the bathroom floor, and now see that what you are saying is spot-on. Please accept my sincere apology for disrespecting LRH and questioning his unfailing wisdom.

I also put ethics on myself for questioning LRH and COB. After doing all the requisite write-ups I had a couple of neighbors make me stand in a trash can, put a sign that said "Faggot" around my neck, pour cold water on me while punching and slapping me silly.

I'm now making arrangements to go to Flag with all of my credit cards ready for swiping by multiple regges.
 
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