Debbie's Mail and my soon-to-rejoin-the-S.O. Friend in Germany


Ordinary Human
You can sleep easy in your bed knowing that you've done everything you can at this point in time. When things get crazy in the SO, she'll know she's got a true friend in you. It will be a big help to her.

Nice to see you posting Mark. Hope you're well.


Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
It's been a while since I watched The Matrix, but isn't there one character who knows that the Matrix is all a deception, yet deliberately chooses to return to the illusion, because it would be better than reality?

Reminds me of a passage in the novel Jim Dandy by William Saroyan; in describing the character it was said:

"He knew the truth and was looking for something better."


Gold Meritorious Patron
That is why it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with such people. It is like trying to have a conversation with a bag of hammers. It's entirely unrewarding. :yes:

Don't knock trying to have an intelligent discussion with a bag of hammers. At least the bag of hammers won't continually interupt you, call you a crazy conspiracy theorist, or give you back seat driving orders while you are trying to make your point.



Marjan, it is most honorable of you to try and rescue this friend of yours. I'm sorry they are proving so thoroughly brainwashed.
Thank you for your kind response. The Colt 45 Handling was, of course, a semi-joke.

Of course, this particular person has been a true and loyal friend for many, many years. I would not get so aggrivated otherwise.

She will do what she wants. But at least, I know now, that I have done EVERYTHING in my power, to try to "wake her up."

She was with me.
Her life was destroyed.
My career was destroyed.

She KNOWS how SCN behaved.
She knows how OUT their "ethics" are.
She still paying off the results of being MASSIVELY over-regged, (just as Debbie Cook described)..
AND STILL.... she wants to re-join.

I love my friend.
We've been through a LOT together.

However, I cannot save her, if she WON'T be saved.

Life goes on!

Sounds very wise of you! :) Thank you Marjan, for clarifying that you were using sarcasm and humor to make a point...I thought it likely so, but unfortunately OSA culls boards like ours for anything they can take out of context as a quote and use to try and spin lies to the authorities about how their "church" is being terrorized by SPs, including non-existent threats of violence. :eyeroll:

I just have a feeling, having said and done all that you have...if you center yourself in the peace of having cared and tried your best to keep her from harm, and just let go of the energy of the struggle, if she no longer has to put energy into defending against what you have shared with her, that her own inner voice of her higher self might start talking to her and she might just suddenly "wake up". All you have said and done, and what she has experienced and knows to be true for herself will suddenly snap into focus and she will think..."what am I doing?", and will create some change, take an opening, or ask for help. It happens like that for some people.

Good strong friendships really do impinge on us, even when we don't share the same viewpoint.

In any event, I do wish her well, and hope that you can be at peace with it as it plays out, however it I said, I DO understand your anger and frustration. Been there done that myself, with a very close and dear friend! I have done my share of grieving over the loss, believe me. I understand.

Maybe your next role in the next chapter of your friendship is to be there for her and be part of her support system for when she finally "gets it" and leaves the Cult. You can be there to help her pick up the pieces and restore her free life. :thumbsup:

Eventually, everyone leaves Scientology.

In the meantime, God bless you! :)
Sorry about your GF who wants back in the SO - it reminds me of the battered wife syndrome, where the battered spouse won't leave the batterer. But more interesting than that, is her response of wanting someone else to decide about Debbie for her. I hate to point out she wants some one else to do her thinking, but that seems to be part and parcel with being a scio. I've been down that road before, with someone saying "I am fine with you but I have to check with ethics before we continue communicating". About all you can say is goodby and good luck.

That and hope she realizes why she left the SO in the first place and leave again. My wife is more cynical - saying, perhaps they will die happy, thinking they helped clear the planet.


Patron with Honors
"So, basically, you just have decided to remain completely blind, so that you don't have to confront WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW AND EXPERIENCED. I guess it must be easier to pretend that EVERYONE is an SP except for COB, who according to your "friends" (who are also no longer in the SO) is a good guy."
Well, I want to find out for myself, how it really is in the SO right now. You know, that whatever the situation really is, it HAS to be handled, and I can't handle it from the outside.

My heart breaks for both of you.

I feel your frustration for all the obvious reasons. The bottom line is that you see someone blindly going into a situation *again* that is primed for failure... especially hers.

But the reason this is so upsetting is that *You know her intentions are good.* I am sure she sincerely believes that she is doing the right thing, is going to make a difference, is taking the hard task of confronting that which is both difficult and right --

And many of us understand that feeling way too well. We know from the same experience that "I have to fix it from the inside" requires that the other participants want to fix it too. And they don't. The core problem with the organization is that it has never been responsible for its actions; as an organization it has never made amends or even said, "We screwed up. We learned from this and will not do it again."

But your friend's intention is pure and honorable. And she is apt to see any arguments you make to say "No no don't do this!" not as "Really, I've been there, I've seen so many others fail -- and demonstrate it cannot be done" but (at best) "You are being negative" and "That means it is a good challenge for me! I shall prevail because I understand what's wrong and I shall appeal to the rightness within the Powers That Be!"

The saddest part is that I don't know how you can change her mind. I suppose that I could suggest is that you quietly say, "I believe that you believe you are doing the right and honorable thing. When and if you discover you are wrong: Know that I am still and always your friend, and I'll be waiting for you out here. I am always willing to communicate with you, even if you find you can no longer communicate with me. And you will not be alone if you leave again."

...a guy who has accumulated $1 BILLION USD...

He did not accumulate it. He spent something like $3 billion (which is what was in reserves in the late 70s) to get it down to $1 billion.

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Reminds me of a passage in the novel Jim Dandy by William Saroyan; in describing the character it was said:

"He knew the truth and was looking for something better."

One of those extremely few quores I copy & paste to my memorable quotes file.

Why ? It 'splains a lot !