Declared a Suppressive Person and disconnected by the Church of Marty

Sindy

Crusader
Ok, so you are basically whining about a forum moderator getting annoyed with you after you continued to try to get him to approve a post he had already denied.

If it were just about anyone other than Marty Rathbun's forum, I'm sure your attempt to bring drama from another board to ESMB would have met with "too bad, so sad".



Those of use who put substantial time and effort into the study of Hubbard's Technical materials know that the the two terms are not even remotely synonymous.

Besides that, Marty is generally very straightforward and upfront in his blog posts and comments. -If he had meant to call you a Suppressive Person, that's what he would have done.

You trolled the moderator and got your hand slapped for it, and now you are over here crying about it. End of story.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Would you like to rephrase that?
 

Disinfected

Patron Meritorious
Those of use who put substantial time and effort into the study of Hubbard's Technical materials know that the the two terms are not even remotely synonymous.

Oh, and on this point, let me be blunt. Bullshit. Go back and restudy your materials:

HCO PL 5 Apr 65, Handling the Suppressive Person

HCO PL 5 Apr 65 Issue II THE NO-GAIN-CASE STUDENT
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Yes, I have been summarily declared by Marty. Is that an honor? Can I get Goldenrod on it?

Marty refused to post my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment on the fact that perks for Cruise and COB align with LRH policy. That comment is posted below.

After deleting it two or three times, Marty did reply to my protest with "you are ncg."

"ncg" as most of us know here is "No Case Gain" and is somewhat of a shorthand for "Suppressive Person".

Marty and crew have no problem continuing the grand tradition of labelling and discarding anyone that will not toe the line. PTS, Type A - J, theety-weety, dilettante, middle-case, wog, db (degraded being), SP, ncg, out-ethics, nattery, etc., etc., etc. The list goes on ... and on ... and on ...

Here is my post regarding the perks for Cruise. I guess my crime is self-evident:

<post that won't see the light of day on Marty's blog>

This is all covered by LRH policy:

HCO POLICY LETTER OF 16 NOVEMBER 1966
Admin Know-How Series 7
EXECUTIVE FACILITIES
FACILITY DIFFERENTIAL

"When a senior executive has the ability to make money for the organization or greatly raise statistics, and when this ability has been demonstrated, that executive should have facilities. This ability is often discoverable by the absence of the executive from post for a period or when the executive is pulled off by emergencies. In such a time the income of the org may sink. The degree the income shrinks is the "facility differential" of that executive. It is worth that much to the org in facilities to have the executive on post.
...
Facilities normally include
...
e. Those that buy leisure
...
g. Those that extend longevity on the job.
One can think of many things that do each of these."

Now certainly, Tom Cruise, as "the most dedicated Scientologist" and someone who "reaches billions with Scientology" is entitled to a bit of "facility differential" from you Sea Org schlubs. COB, even more so, no? Or as Tommy puts it, "Whatever small economic benefit Mr. Cruise may have received from the assistance of Church staff pales in comparison to the benefits the Church has received from Mr. Cruise’s many years of volunteer efforts for the Church.”

</post that won't see the light of day on Marty's blog>

He often nukes posts that aren't really all that bad. I figure, it's his blog, he can be as censorious as he wants, though I think it's lame.

BUT, calling you "NCG" is ridiculous. Like he'd freaking know if you were or weren't. Very very uncool of him.
 

NCSP

Patron Meritorious
I've been reading Jesse Prince's taped interview with Larry Wollersheim. Gives me a new perspective on Rathbun's shady past, for sure. It's clear that he hasn't even begun to own up to his past. Not publicly, anyway.
 

Disinfected

Patron Meritorious
He often nukes posts that aren't really all that bad. I figure, it's his blog, he can be as censorious as he wants, though I think it's lame.

BUT, calling you "NCG" is ridiculous. Like he'd freaking know if you were or weren't. Very very uncool of him.

That's right Claire. He has deleted my posts before and he has posted snide comments about me before but this takes the cake. And why is he so down on me? Because 1) I don't echo his party line and 2) I remind that Hubbard laid in many of the most offensive policies of Scientology. Don't get me wrong, unlike many here (not all) I LIKE Scientology and I don't mind that it was developed by a braggart and a bullshitter. But I don't harp on that, I just think those that ignore or whitewash Hubbard's faults are doomed to word-clear them to total obedience.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Marty's pr damage control agent is fond of nit-picking sniping of his (Marty's) critics. Dreck definitions below. :puke:

Dianetics and $cientology Technical Dictionary said:
NO CASE GAIN, 1. persons with heavy overts on Scn make no
case progress. (HCOB 23 Nov 62) 2. no TA actions in auditing or
"little TA" (less than ten divs per session). (HCO PL 5 Apr 65)
3. no CAse-change despite good tries with the routine processes.
(HCO PL 5 Apr 65 II)

NO-GAIN-CASE, 1. the suppressive person is a specialist in
making others ARC break with generalized entheta that is
mostly lies. He or she is also a no-gain-CAse. So avid are such for
the smashing of others by covert or overt means that their case
is bogged and won't move under routine processing. (HCO PL 5
Apr 65, Handling the Suppressive Person) 2. such a person has
withholds, he or she can't communicate freely to as-is the block
on the track that keeps them in some yesterday. Hence, a
"no-case-gain." (HCO PL 5 Apr 65, Handling the Suppressive
Person) 3. this CAse performs continual calculating covert hostile
acts damaging to others. This CAse puts the enturbulence and
upset into the environment, breaks the chairs, messes up the
rugs and spoils the traffic flow with "goofs" done intentionally.
(HCO PL 5 Apr 65, Handling the Suppressive Person) 4. the
Uwithholdy case that ARC breaks easily," "the blowy student"
Uunstable gain student." (HCO PL 5 Apr 65 II)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
This is an illustrious example of what "Independent" Scientologists
have to look forward to.

Scientology 2.0. The same Scientology slave empire, but without some of the viruses caused by squirrel con men like COB who don't know (like Ron and Marty) the tech of how to keep their treachery secret.

What is most fascinating about Marty labeling you NCG and not allowing people to hear what you have to say is that IT IS A DEJA VU MOMENT....we are actually watching in live, real-time, the creation of a cult.

The INDEPENDENT thinkers who are following Marty around holding an ash tray for him are proud of their independence. They are thrilled that they have broken free of a cult that tries to control their thinking. They are grateful to their new guru who exchanges in abundance by freely giving them all the right thoughts.

Wow, it's just like that Free Personality Test! What possible harm could come from taking something that is free?
 
Well, it can be seen HERE, Disinfected. :bravo: :clap: :yes: :D

Personally when I do post on MR's site I tend to post a copy of that post here on esmb along with a link to the post on MR's blog. I only bother if I consider the post substantive, but that way there is a record in the event MR decides to nuke the post.

I recommend the same practice for everyone. It is not generally valid to lift another's comments from one site to another, issues of courtesy, copyright, and board terms & policies are involved. BUT an individual ALWAYS has the right to post his own comments wheresoever he wishes in accordance with the terms of the venue. :coolwink:


Mark A. Baker
 
That's right Claire. He has deleted my posts before and he has posted snide comments about me before but this takes the cake. And why is he so down on me? Because 1) I don't echo his party line and 2) I remind that Hubbard laid in many of the most offensive policies of Scientology. Don't get me wrong, unlike many here (not all) I LIKE Scientology and I don't mind that it was developed by a braggart and a bullshitter. But I don't harp on that, I just think those that ignore or whitewash Hubbard's faults are doomed to word-clear them to total obedience.

The fact that Ratbun is so blatantly 'pro-lrh' is a clear sign he has yet to honestly come to terms with the nature of LRH's role in creating the cult. Whether that is on his part a result of simple stupidity, the effects of his own long term indoctrination, his need to justify his own past actions, or malicious intent remains uncertain. What is clear is that Rathbun has yet to resolve the fundamental issues relating to his own lack of credibility and apparent duplicity.


Mark A. Baker
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
That's right Claire. He has deleted my posts before and he has posted snide comments about me before but this takes the cake. And why is he so down on me? Because 1) I don't echo his party line and 2) I remind that Hubbard laid in many of the most offensive policies of Scientology. Don't get me wrong, unlike many here (not all) I LIKE Scientology and I don't mind that it was developed by a braggart and a bullshitter. But I don't harp on that, I just think those that ignore or whitewash Hubbard's faults are doomed to word-clear them to total obedience.

What do you expect from a pig but a grunt? Marty has consigned more people to doom than just about anyone next to Miscavige in the current batch of sphincters. Rinder probably has even darker secrets, but I can't see how anyone would trust these ass-monkeys with anything at all until they come clean for the crimes they committed in Miscavige and the cult's name. Neither has done this. Everyone who is accepting them as some sort of group leader has mutual out-rudiments, IMO. They are the legion of the doomed.
 

Atalantan

Patron with Honors
Yes, I have been summarily declared by Marty. Is that an honor? Can I get Goldenrod on it?

Marty refused to post my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment on the fact that perks for Cruise and COB align with LRH policy. That comment is posted below.

After deleting it two or three times, Marty did reply to my protest with "you are ncg."

"ncg" as most of us know here is "No Case Gain" and is somewhat of a shorthand for "Suppressive Person".

Marty and crew have no problem continuing the grand tradition of labelling and discarding anyone that will not toe the line. PTS, Type A - J, theety-weety, dilettante, middle-class, wog, db (degraded being), SP, ncg, out-ethics, nattery, etc., etc., etc. The list goes on ... and on ... and on ...

Here is my post regarding the perks for Cruise. I guess my crime is self-evident:

<post that won't see the light of day on Marty's blog>

This is all covered by LRH policy:

HCO POLICY LETTER OF 16 NOVEMBER 1966
Admin Know-How Series 7
EXECUTIVE FACILITIES
FACILITY DIFFERENTIAL

"When a senior executive has the ability to make money for the organization or greatly raise statistics, and when this ability has been demonstrated, that executive should have facilities. This ability is often discoverable by the absence of the executive from post for a period or when the executive is pulled off by emergencies. In such a time the income of the org may sink. The degree the income shrinks is the "facility differential" of that executive. It is worth that much to the org in facilities to have the executive on post.
...
Facilities normally include
...
e. Those that buy leisure
...
g. Those that extend longevity on the job.
One can think of many things that do each of these."

Now certainly, Tom Cruise, as "the most dedicated Scientologist" and someone who "reaches billions with Scientology" is entitled to a bit of "facility differential" from you Sea Org schlubs. COB, even more so, no? Or as Tommy puts it, "Whatever small economic benefit Mr. Cruise may have received from the assistance of Church staff pales in comparison to the benefits the Church has received from Mr. Cruise’s many years of volunteer efforts for the Church.”

</post that won't see the light of day on Marty's blog>

I have no idea why Marty would consider you "ncg", I don't know your posting track there, but - since when does that PL cover someone like TC? I think, since never. TC is not any kind of "executive", junior, senior, or perhaps he is gluteus maximus executivus, except as COB has instilled that kind of delusion in his mind.....

In a word, I disagree with your interpretation of the PL you cite. It is a "squirrely" interpretation of it , no doubt in my mind, not the intended meaning, if you seriously think it covers the DM/TC situation.

I would guess Marty has some reason I am not aware of in his mind for calling you "ncg", because judging from the particular comment you have posted, I would have thought he might simply consider it to be some "dev-t" to the topic, a kind of muddying of the waters. And not all definitions of "ncg" cited make one an SP. This would seem to be another example of you putting your own "spin" on things....

I would suggest emailing Marty and trying to solve it that way - IF you really have or had any intention of coexisting with him and the others there. But from what you have posted here, it doesn't seem like you do. In which case "banning" yourself from his blog may indeed be the best solution.
 
Ok, so you are basically whining about a forum moderator getting annoyed with you after you continued to try to get him to approve a post he had already denied.

If it were just about anyone other than Marty Rathbun's forum, I'm sure your attempt to bring drama from another board to ESMB would have met with "too bad, so sad".



Those of use who put substantial time and effort into the study of Hubbard's Technical materials know that the the two terms are not even remotely synonymous.

Besides that, Marty is generally very straightforward and upfront in his blog posts and comments. -If he had meant to call you a Suppressive Person, that's what he would have done.

You trolled the moderator and got your hand slapped for it, and now you are over here crying about it. End of story.

Quite right Sneaks. Put him in the corner and give him a slap. Send him to bed with no powwidge. Report to mother..sneaks is bringing order for mother's HCO. Mother's little deputy gets a kiss.
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
The fact that Ratbun is so blatantly 'pro-lrh' is a clear sign he has yet to honestly come to terms with the nature of LRH's role in creating the cult. Whether that is on his part a result of simple stupidity, the effects of his own long term indoctrination, his need to justify his own past actions, or malicious intent remains uncertain. What is clear is that Rathbun has yet to resolve the fundamental issues relating to his own lack of credibility and apparent duplicity.


Mark A. Baker

Great point Mark.

Worth remembering.
 

Disinfected

Patron Meritorious
Marty Rathbun on censorship

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/1220/

"I’m glad you found us. In my view, censorship should have no place in a civilized society. There is no purpose for it other than to attempt to control the flow of information amongst the minds of beings. It is the supreme invalidation of the beings it targets. It implies they are not intelligent enough to evaluate information for its credibility and importance. It has historically been used by dictators and tyrants attempting to suppress dissent and differing views. It has all too often been used against those working to free people from slavery, both physical and mental. In its current context, to me it has an even deeper meaning. I have told many people that the greatest ability I ever attained in Scientology was the ability to disagree. When I regained that faculty I considered myself no longer a lemming following group think over the cliff. For censorship to be conducted against the subject matter on which we have interchanged ideas is anathema to the very subject we discuss. On the dark side, today marks the nadir of the organization’s betrayal of LRH. On the bright side, I believe today marks the beginning of the end of a three decade Dark Age of oppression. Remember that communication is the universal solvent. Thanks for staying connected."

Now what could I add to that :)
 
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/1220/

"I’m glad you found us. In my view, censorship should have no place in a civilized society. ...

Amusing but not technically inconsistent.

Censorship throughout a society is not the same creature as editorial control on a private website. Individuals censor their public communications all of the time. What is questionable is government censorship of individual communications. Even that can at times be justified, e.g. types of pornography, military intelligence, etc..


Mark A. Baker
 

Megalomaniac

Silver Meritorious Patron
Marty refused to post my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment on the fact that perks for Cruise and COB align with LRH policy.

He refused my comment, too. Now when I reply, it doesn't even show up as awaiting moderation. I'm auto-rejected.
 

Attachments

  • disinfected_denied.gif
    disinfected_denied.gif
    29.5 KB · Views: 41

Megalomaniac

Silver Meritorious Patron
Marty refused to post my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment on the fact that perks for Cruise and COB align with LRH policy.

Anyways, it does align with LRH policy. Flow power to the power on which you depend. Reward the upstats. Etc. If it weren't for the fact that the SO members earn squat, for the abuses, for the human trafficking, for the fact it is a tax-exempt organization, and the fact they try to hide these sorts of perks, it would be ok.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
The fact that Ratbun is so blatantly 'pro-lrh' is a clear sign he has yet to honestly come to terms with the nature of LRH's role in creating the cult. Whether that is on his part a result of simple stupidity, the effects of his own long term indoctrination, his need to justify his own past actions, or malicious intent remains uncertain. What is clear is that Rathbun has yet to resolve the fundamental issues relating to his own lack of credibility and apparent duplicity.


Mark A. Baker

THIS ^^^^

It also raises questions as to the efficacy of Marty's criticism. Its all very well to rave on about how evil DM is, and fair enuff too, but to fail to consider what drives that behaviour is to treat the symptom and not the cause. Everything that DM does is in alignment with policy, command intention and/or the real life example of L Ron Hubbard. If a dumb wog like me can see it, so too can the people Marty is reaching for.
 

Disinfected

Patron Meritorious
Amusing but not technically inconsistent.

Censorship throughout a society is not the same creature as editorial control on a private website. Individuals censor their public communications all of the time. What is questionable is government censorship of individual communications. Even that can at times be justified, e.g. types of pornography, military intelligence, etc..


Mark A. Baker

I agree with your comment. However, as I alude to in my parting words to Marty, his blog has become the semi-official organ of the "independent movement". He has encouraged that by his, basically, making it the "paper of record", as it were, for coming-out notices. I think, for that reason, his responsibility to the community to allow relatively free and open communication goes beyond that of a personal blog. My comment did not reflect on Marty, it was not related to confidential materials, it was simply an "err, excuse me". There was no reason it should have been offered to the community. I expected to be bashed, I was disappointed to be silenced.

Marty encourages the exact sort of atmosphere that led to the abuses he, supposedly, decries. An atmosphere where only the sycophants have a voice; where any small dissenting voice is quickly stifled. Why did no-one ever say "err, excuse me" when Marty or Miscavige (take your pick) got physical with a junior (though a loud "WHAT THE FUCK" would have been more appropriate)? Because of the exact atmosphere that Marty seems to prefer. For all their warts, I'll take anonymous over that.
 

Disinfected

Patron Meritorious
He refused my comment, too. Now when I reply, it doesn't even show up as awaiting moderation. I'm auto-rejected.

Thanks for the support. Re your point, yes, in a private and for-profit corporation, the treatment of Cruise would be no problem. In this setting, it is betrayal.
 
Top