Declared a Suppressive Person and disconnected by the Church of Marty

I agree with your comment. However, as I alude to in my parting words to Marty, his blog has become the semi-official organ of the "independent movement". He has encouraged that by his, basically, making it the "paper of record", as it were, for coming-out notices. I think, for that reason, his responsibility to the community to allow relatively free and open communication goes beyond that of a personal blog. My comment did not reflect on Marty, it was not related to confidential materials, it was simply an "err, excuse me". There was no reason it should have been offered to the community. I expected to be bashed, I was disappointed to be silenced.

Marty encourages the exact sort of atmosphere that led to the abuses he, supposedly, decries. An atmosphere where only the sycophants have a voice; where any small dissenting voice is quickly stifled. Why did no-one ever say "err, excuse me" when Marty or Miscavige (take your pick) got physical with a junior (though a loud "WHAT THE FUCK" would have been more appropriate)? Because of the exact atmosphere that Marty seems to prefer. For all their warts, I'll take anonymous over that.

Apart from your remark re the 'independent movement', I don't disagree with your post. Your prior post, though ironically amusing, just wasn't quite a 'gotcha' that so many might rush to make it out to be. Hence my reply.

As regards the 'independent movement', that was alive and kicking nearly 30 years ago when Rathbun was a dedicated SO member. His attempt to develop a network of support among those still loyal to the 'Ideals of the Sea Org' are transparent. In that effort he has adopted the language of the 'Independent Scientologist' to characterize his followers. Not all independent scientologists would accept that characterization.

Language is important. In public discussions I don't see any value in conceding a single point to Rathbun unnecessarily. Rather than calling his people 'Independent Scientologists', I prefer the term 'Rathbunite'. It's more precise. It also allows for the dicta: Beware the Rathbunnies! :coolwink:.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYmZXufaUiE


Mark A. Baker
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I really really hate it when another person sits in judgment over someone else's psyche, way of life, etc. Even if someone were still into Scn, how's anyone who's never met him or her going to know the person's "no case gain" and even if you had a trained C/S who thought that about someone, it would be the height of piss poor manners and would evidence total lack of decency to post such a thing.
 

elwood

Patron with Honors
Disinfected:

Don't take it so hard. Objectively, if Marty didn't agree with you he could have simply ignored your e-mail and declined to post it. The fact that he posted it, then took a cheap shot at you it tells me that he is one of those people who can only maintain his sense of self-worth by denigrating others and trying to look like a tough guy to his sycophants. I have been dealing with people like that all my life. You can't change them. All you can do is ignore them.

He's done it to a lot of people. Welcome to the club.
 

Disinfected

Patron Meritorious
Apart from your remark re the 'independent movement', I don't disagree with your post. Your prior post, though ironically amusing, just wasn't quite a 'gotcha' that so many might rush to make it out to be. Hence my reply.

As regards the 'independent movement', that was alive and kicking nearly 30 years ago when Rathbun was a dedicated SO member. His attempt to develop a network of support among those still loyal to the 'Ideals of the Sea Org' are transparent. In that effort he has adopted the language of the 'Independent Scientologist' to characterize his followers. Not all independent scientologists would accept that characterization.

Language is important. In public discussions I don't see any value in conceding a single point to Rathbun unnecessarily. Rather than calling his people 'Independent Scientologists', I prefer the term 'Rathbunite'. It's more precise. It also allows for the dicta: Beware the Rathbunnies! :coolwink:.

Mark A. Baker

"don't disagree with your post". On a scale of 1 - 10, how much is that like "I agree"? Parsimonious much? (joke)

While I agree that Marty's attempt to hijack the concept of an "independent Scientologist" is somewhat suspect, I would rather not name-call those that are newly out and looking to Marty.

It is all about the Stable Datum, as I am sure you realize. As my signature may indicate, I am not into lumping people together into monolithic "types". Whether you believe in that Stable Datum Hubbardism or no, leaving a group and way of life as all-inclusive as Scientology, especially at the level of OT - and Marty does attract OT's and ex-SO - can be a very unsettling experience. Many will look for a new rock to cling to rather than just let go and Marty supplies that rock. It is all very simple as Marty presents it. Scientology GOOD. Hubbard GOOD. Miscavige BAD. Get rid of Miscavige and it can all be GOOD again. It must be very comforting to grab hold of that stable rock.

Marty's problem with me is I am more into shades of gray and Marty cannot have that. I think that Marty's painting everything black/white is something of a knowing and calculated ploy. It is a con, a shore story, from someone that comes from an organization that has raised the shore story to an art form.

You may be aware that Marty does not think much of those that left 30 years ago. He has referred to them as traitors and commented that he worked to clean up their mess. Sorry but I do not have a link for you. This was when he was first getting going and I doubt he would repeat that sentiment now. I only bring that up because I think it is important to Marty to distinguish "his" group from the earlier one. I have no problem with his group calling themselves "The Independents" but then I am not an independent practitioner of Scientology. I am just a guy.
 
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