Deep breath. OK. I can do this. Here Goes.

[FinallyFree]

Thanks for asking.
The mission was in Hesperia, right next to Victorville

Welcome GreyWolf! OMG! I didn't know the High Dessert had a cult clinic!

 

[FinallyFree]

GreyWolf: I just finished reading the chapters to your story. It really touched me. I understand the pain you are going though and wanted to only offer two pieces of advice:
1. don’t forget to forgive yourself!
2. keep researching! There is SOOOO much to learn. The truth it out there.

 

[Zinjifar]

The truth it out there.

And 'in here' With every new member/story the picture gets clearer.

Zinj

 

[FinallyFree]

And 'in here' With every new member/story the picture gets clearer.

Zinj

It's a wonderful thing. Nice to be on this side of the fence watching others climb over. Makes the heart all warm and fuzzy!

 

[GreyWolf]

Thanks Free and Zing. The thing that makes me so damn mad is that in order to "find my ruin" and get me on staff they invalidated my knowingness from the get go. I was more OT before I fell into the trap than I ever was in it. Or, for that matter, any other so called OT's that I met while inside. The other thing was that I really wanted to believe that I was doing something good All well. Hind sight is twenty-twenty.

Love

Bob

 

[GreyWolf]

A few final thoughts

Firstly I would like to say that I really think that the people who originally recruited me were very good people and they really believed that what they were telling me was the absolute truth.

I am sure as well that many of the people I worked with during my time on staff and as a scientologist were good people and really believed that they were trying to do something great in the world.

My heart really aches for these people and I still love them even though I have not spoken with them for years.

Next was the fact that not only did Sci not handle my alcoholism as promised, it actually got worse after i had attested clear and had it validated. Not only that but my drugging got worse as well. I was drinking all day and at night I was drinking and taking pills and smoking pot as well. This went on daily for two years. It is a wonder that I am still alive. I really do NOT believe that Scn has the tech to truly handle life. It is like they are throwing darts and seeing if anything sticks :confused2: !

I also have to say that although I was never truly worried about OSA or anyone else coming after me, maybe a little paranoia was there, the real reason why I never told anyone about my experiences in the "church" was the great, almost unbearable sadness I felt whenever I thought about it. I was used by this criminal organization and I helped this organization use others.

Lastly, I would like to thank all of you for being here and Emma for putting this site up. Thanks to you all I have found a release and a pleace where people really understand me.

Thank you

Love

Bob

 

[JinLing]

Firstly I would like to say that I really think that the people who originally recruited me were very good people and they really believed that what they were telling me was the absolute truth.

I am sure as well that many of the people I worked with during my time on staff and as a scientologist were good people and really believed that they were trying to do something great in the world.

My heart really aches for these people and I still love them even though I have not spoken with them for years.

this i can really, really relate to. There are some really great people still in scientology that i really miss and feel kind of sad that we cant really have a friendship the way things look now. It IS sad that it breaks up friendships.

 

[GreyWolf]

this i can really, really relate to. There are some really great people still in scientology that i really miss and feel kind of sad that we cant really have a friendship the way things look now. It IS sad that it breaks up friendships.

Thank you. All we can do is hope and pray that they find thier way out soon.

Bob

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Next was the fact that not only did Sci not handle my alcoholism as promised, it actually got worse after i had attested clear and had it validated. Not only that but my drugging got worse as well.

Out of curiosity, GW, what period of time did you do purif/objectives/drug rd? Were you clean while on these actions? What org/terminals were involved? I'm not pressing you for this if you aren't comfortable disclosing any of this data.

Caution: it could be used by Co$ to "track your identity" if that is a worry to you. Judging by the photo, I guess not. But that could be a mistaken assumption on my part.

Hope you've got this area under control. If not you might have some success with a 12-step group. I've known several people who've found them to be very helpful & supportive, NA in particular.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Tom of Helatrobus]

Let me get off of the subject to ask this. Is there anyone in upper management know or care about all of the programs that go out to the orgs.
That alot of the time these programs cross each other. that alot of them don't apply? That some of them look like they wre writen by a five year old? ( oh excuse me. I meant a theatan in a little body)! And the compliance turn around time is always NOW! AAAAH!

I was in CLO WUS for a while - in training to be an exec, Public Contact Aide. I noticed that we had a lot of programs for Div 6A, B and C and I wanted bought up the idea that the heads of the separate divisions (a,b and c) should COORDINATE what compliance reports we asked for and what priorities we should set. I thought that I should only be working with orgs that had a PCS on post as opposed to "held from above." But that got shot down by the the PES at CLO. So for PESs (even ones with only one person on post) around the year 1990, there were four SO members writing telexes to them and demanding compliance reports for maybe 3 programs each.

Being in CLO, even as a 18 year old, convinced me that the SO was completely incompetent.

I didn't write any of the programs, they were written by people at gold base, way out in the dessert - divorced from reality.

There was no real rhyme or reason to the compliance reports I asked for. I would just pick out some that sounded easy (I was SO lost). But my bosses told me to ask for specific CRs. Some were really simple - but others like "recruit and hat a Public Such and Such," always struck me as unrealistic. I knew how hard it was to recruit someone to post and get them to stay, but all programs required at least one person to recruited.

I was told to DEMAND, DEMAND, DEMAND. There was not much considerations for the limitations of the thetans in the class IV orgs. CO FOLO Vicki Shantz did make an issue of making sure that staff members got paid SOMETHING so they could live, but that was about it. You know how it goes, "make it go right."

I never ever got any kind of compliance for my telexes. Did you ever answer any? I was happy to get a telex back acknowledging the message, but I almost never got that. CRs were rare too.

We get upstairs and I am ushered into a closet to wait. Not a real closet but it felt like it. I waited for about an hour and then they came to get me. For those who have never been com-eved. It is supposed to be a justice action based on LRH ethics and Justice policies. What it really is, is a Kangaroo court. Sorry to all the kangaroo's out there. I am sitting accross the table from these three guys and they are yelling at me that they have this big list of charges against me and that at this point it does not look good for me. I said let me see the charges. They did. There were about 7 or 8 charges against me including failing to keep Scientology working, willfull sabotage of the Church and counter intention to command intention. Oh yeah and backflashing a senior. OOPS there went my diplomacy again. I said since when was a twelve year old my senior. She wasn't twelve but compared to me. . . ya know. By then I know the policy I wanted about the rest of these silly charges. It was the one about cancelling Congresses. Even Ron Knew that events were a sure way of crashing an org's stats. I also said
that if I was against stupidity then maybe yeah, I had counter intention to command intention. You know what they did. They showed me the policies on nattering! They asked about my crimes to which I replied, allowing off policy of management to go on for so long. They asked if I had anything else to say about the charges, I said they were going to do what they were going to do so it didn't matter. They said to return to my org as PES and the Ed would return to her post. They also said not to talk to anyone about what had happened in LA. I was happier than hell that it was over but I was also not happy about the way it came about. This was near the begining of 92. I knew I could hang on till the end of the year, then my contract would be over. The next chapter will be my last. How my career in the org ended, and how I got out of scientology.

I never understood how SO members treated staff so poorly. I was always afraid I would piss off staff members and they would leave. "These people practically work for free," I would think to myself. I never yelled at staff members, but I didn't last too long in the SO either.

 

[GreyWolf]

Out of curiosity, GW, what period of time did you do purif/objectives/drug rd? Were you clean while on these actions? What org/terminals were involved? I'm not pressing you for this if you aren't comfortable disclosing any of this data.

Caution: it could be used by Co$ to "track your identity" if that is a worry to you. Judging by the photo, I guess not. But that could be a mistaken assumption on my part.

Hope you've got this area under control. If not you might have some success with a 12-step group. I've known several people who've found them to be very helpful & supportive, NA in particular.


Mark A. Baker

I actually did the purif twice. In 87 abd in 89. I have now been clean and sober for almost 14 years and thank you for asking.

Bob

 

[GreyWolf]

I was in CLO WUS for a while - in training to be an exec, Public Contact Aide. I noticed that we had a lot of programs for Div 6A, B and C and I wanted bought up the idea that the heads of the separate divisions (a,b and c) should COORDINATE what compliance reports we asked for and what priorities we should set. I thought that I should only be working with orgs that had a PCS on post as opposed to "held from above." But that got shot down by the the PES at CLO. So for PESs (even ones with only one person on post) around the year 1990, there were four SO members writing telexes to them and demanding compliance reports for maybe 3 programs each.

Being in CLO, even as a 18 year old, convinced me that the SO was completely incompetent.

I didn't write any of the programs, they were written by people at gold base, way out in the dessert - divorced from reality.

There was no real rhyme or reason to the compliance reports I asked for. I would just pick out some that sounded easy (I was SO lost). But my bosses told me to ask for specific CRs. Some were really simple - but others like "recruit and hat a Public Such and Such," always struck me as unrealistic. I knew how hard it was to recruit someone to post and get them to stay, but all programs required at least one person to recruited.

I was told to DEMAND, DEMAND, DEMAND. There was not much considerations for the limitations of the thetans in the class IV orgs. CO FOLO Vicki Shantz did make an issue of making sure that staff members got paid SOMETHING so they could live, but that was about it. You know how it goes, "make it go right."

I never ever got any kind of compliance for my telexes. Did you ever answer any? I was happy to get a telex back acknowledging the message, but I almost never got that. CRs were rare too.



I never understood how SO members treated staff so poorly. I was always afraid I would piss off staff members and they would leave. "These people practically work for free," I would think to myself. I never yelled at staff members, but I didn't last too long in the SO either.

One of the things I really hated was doing CR's. I felt my time would actually be better spent doing my damn job.

Another thing that really chapped my hide was, you have someone who is performing very well on a post and very happy and is actually getting the products of his post, then you promote them into a higher post where they have no hatting. And you expect them to be a top performer there too. I have noticed that it happens to staff in orgs and in the SO. This is just one of the silliest things I have ever seen.

Bob

 

[Zinjifar]

One of the things I really hated was doing CR's. I felt my time would actually be better spent doing my damn job.

Another thing that really chapped my hide was, you have someone who is performing very well on a post and very happy and is actually getting the products of his post, then you promote them into a higher post where they have no hatting. And you expect them to be a top performer there too. I have noticed that it happens to staff in orgs and in the SO. This is just one of the silliest things I have ever seen.

Bob

It's called 'The Peter Principle' - people are promoted to their level of incompetence. That's a 'wog' concept. The Scientology concept is, they should be able to 'hat themselves' if they're uptone/stat, because all they have to do is go wholetrack to the last time they did the job.

That doesn't work well either.

Zinj

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I have now been clean and sober for almost 14 years and thank you for asking.

Bob

Mark A. Baker

 

[JinLing]

Next was the fact that not only did Sci not handle my alcoholism as promised, it actually got worse after i had attested clear and had it validated. Not only that but my drugging got worse as well. I was drinking all day and at night I was drinking and taking pills and smoking pot as well. This went on daily for two years.

I had a similar experience kind of. I find it easier to stay drugfree now that i left, since i dont have to deal with so much pressure in life anymore. I kept drugfree a long time while i was in scientology too, but in the end i reverted. Im fully responsible for my own choiches of course, but that last time in was really making me go crazy from stress and i never got enough sleep (the first thing i took was sleepmeds, then i thought i might just do the rest as well...since going back to the org would be trouble anyway), i never had enough FUN in life then either. Drugs felt more tempting since a lot of the time i was so unhappy.

 

[GreyWolf]

It's called 'The Peter Principle' - people are promoted to their level of incompetence. That's a 'wog' concept. The Scientology concept is, they should be able to 'hat themselves' if they're uptone/stat, because all they have to do is go wholetrack to the last time they did the job.

That doesn't work well either.

Zinj

thanks zinj. you made me laugh.

 

[GreyWolf]

I had a similar experience kind of. I find it easier to stay drugfree now that i left, since i dont have to deal with so much pressure in life anymore. I kept drugfree a long time while i was in scientology too, but in the end i reverted. Im fully responsible for my own choiches of course, but that last time in was really making me go crazy from stress and i never got enough sleep (the first thing i took was sleepmeds, then i thought i might just do the rest as well...since going back to the org would be trouble anyway), i never had enough FUN in life then either. Drugs felt more tempting since a lot of the time i was so unhappy.

Believe me, I understand very well. It seemed the more pressure to perform during the day and the anger and tiredness I felt at night, If I hadn't drank, I would have exploded (imploded). It does get better though, and I haven't even thought about a dring for years.
Bob

 

[JinLing]

Believe me, I understand very well. It seemed the more pressure to perform during the day and the anger and tiredness I felt at night, If I hadn't drank, I would have exploded (imploded). It does get better though, and I haven't even thought about a dring for years.
Bob

Thats great. I do drink once in a while (twice a month or so), but its not a problem to me really. Drugs is fairly easy to stay out of as well, there is so much misery connected to it now, and i dont find it as funny as i used to when i was younger..

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Life is fun when you let it be!

I hope Jinling, Grey Wolf and everybody else on this thread are having a LOT more fun now! If not, go out and create some!

Let's play!

 

[GreyWolf]

Actually, I am having more fun in my life now than I ever did.

Thank you so much for your comments. Keep em coming.

Love and respect

Bob