Definition of a cult

[Tim Skog]

This is the best definition of a cult I have ever come across:

If you wish to go to the site:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/sn-cult.html
Definition of a 'Cult'

mathew



What makes some religions "cults" and others "mainstream"?

This is taken from Margot Adler's book Drawing Down the Moon: Witches, Druids, Goddess-Worshippers, and Other Pagans in America, a guide to contemporary neopaganism. She quotes P.E.I. Bonewitz on what to look for and avoid in any organization that promises wisdom by participating in its activities.

Score each item on a scale of 1 to 10 (or whatever is your favorite scale):

1. Internal control: the amount of internal political power exercised by leader(s) over members.
2. Wisdom claimed by leader(s): the amount of infallibility declared about decisions.
3. Wisdom credited to leader(s) by members; the amount of trust in decisions made by leader(s).
4. Dogma: the rigidity of reality concepts taught; the amount of doctrinal inflexibility.
5. Recruiting: the emphasis put on attracting new members; the amount of proselytizing.
6. Front groups: the number of subsidiary groups using names different from that of the main group.
7. Wealth: the amount of money and/or property desired or obtained; the degree of emphasis on members' donations.
8. Political power: the amount of external political influence desired or obtained.
9. Sexual manipulation of members by leader(s); the amount of control of sex lives of members.
10. Censorship: the amount of control over members' access to outside opinions on group: its doctrines: or its leader(s).
11. Dropout control: the intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.
12. Endorsement of violence when used by or for the group or its leader(s).
13. Paranoia: the amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies: the perceived power of opponents.
14. Grimness: the amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines, or its leader(s).

This list of warning signs preceded a list of neopagan groups, mostly American ones. Margot Adler stated that she hoped that there would be no groups on her list that scored too high on this scale.


Sound like any group you know?

 

[Leon]

This is really good. Thank you.

 

[lionheart]

Wow!

 

[uniquemand]

Thanks be to the All-Powerful, All-Wise Lord Jesus Christ, and his Eternal Father that you have given us this list. We would all be expelled from Heaven eternally, and damned to Hell for all time if we weren't aware of this list.

Actually, this list sounds like every religious group I've ever had any experience of. Some people here are neo-pagans, and have better experience of those groups. I can't speak for them! My experience though, is that all religions are cults, they just think this only applies to everyone else but them, since THEY aren't a cult, they just follow the only true teachings of (______).

 

[lionheart]

Thanks be to the All-Powerful, All-Wise Lord Jesus Christ, and his Eternal Father that you have given us this list. We would all be expelled from Heaven eternally, and damned to Hell for all time if we weren't aware of this list.

Actually, this list sounds like every religious group I've ever had any experience of. Some people here are neo-pagans, and have better experience of those groups. I can't speak for them! My experience though, is that all religions are cults, they just think this only applies to everyone else but them, since THEY aren't a cult, they just follow the only true teachings of (______).

Many religious groups show these characteristics but there are lots of religious groups that don't show these characteristics or would score a low score on the 1 to 10 count. Just check on any religious group that enjoys studying other religious ideas from other sources.

Maybe you should get out more Uniquemand!

I get your point 'though. One of the benefits of having been a scientologist is that one is all the better prepared to spot cultic inclinations in groups. This has served me well since Scn threw me out.

 

[uniquemand]

Oh, I get out. Just not to Church meetings.

 

[Smitty]

The Four Basic Cult Behaviors

http://www.deikman.com/former.html

Compliance With the Group
Dependence on a Leader
Avoiding Dissent
Devaluing the Outsider

 

[uniquemand]

Hmm... sounds like a family.

 

[The Clam]

That definition would make 80% or more of the people of planet earth in some kind of cult or another.

 

[Smitty]

comment to The Clam

That definition would make 80% or more of the people of planet earth in some kind of cult or another.

Please cite your evidence. I don't see that at all with most groups.

 

[GreyLensman]

This is the best definition of a cult I have ever come across:

If you wish to go to the site:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/sn-cult.html
Definition of a 'Cult'

mathew



What makes some religions "cults" and others "mainstream"?

This is taken from Margot Adler's book Drawing Down the Moon: Witches, Druids, Goddess-Worshippers, and Other Pagans in America, a guide to contemporary neopaganism. She quotes P.E.I. Bonewitz on what to look for and avoid in any organization that promises wisdom by participating in its activities.

Score each item on a scale of 1 to 10 (or whatever is your favorite scale):

1. Internal control: the amount of internal political power exercised by leader(s) over members.
2. Wisdom claimed by leader(s): the amount of infallibility declared about decisions.
3. Wisdom credited to leader(s) by members; the amount of trust in decisions made by leader(s).
4. Dogma: the rigidity of reality concepts taught; the amount of doctrinal inflexibility.
5. Recruiting: the emphasis put on attracting new members; the amount of proselytizing.
6. Front groups: the number of subsidiary groups using names different from that of the main group.
7. Wealth: the amount of money and/or property desired or obtained; the degree of emphasis on members' donations.
8. Political power: the amount of external political influence desired or obtained.
9. Sexual manipulation of members by leader(s); the amount of control of sex lives of members.
10. Censorship: the amount of control over members' access to outside opinions on group: its doctrines: or its leader(s).
11. Dropout control: the intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.
12. Endorsement of violence when used by or for the group or its leader(s).
13. Paranoia: the amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies: the perceived power of opponents.
14. Grimness: the amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines, or its leader(s).

This list of warning signs preceded a list of neopagan groups, mostly American ones. Margot Adler stated that she hoped that there would be no groups on her list that scored too high on this scale.


Sound like any group you know?

Excellent - explains why I felt that tingling at the back of the neck shortly after walking into a mission of the Church of Scientology, and that nasty taste the abbreviations "LRH" (uttered reverentially) and "DM" (not so much) left in my mouth.

Don't even mention the staff meeting three cheers to the portrait of Ron. And the "Ron the Writer", "Ron the Movie Maker" etc mags.

Excuse me a second, I need a trash can...

 

[Tim Skog]

Hold on there Greylensman . . . here you go

 

[Night Owl]

For those who still beat themselves up about having joined a cult.....


''Nobody sets out to join a cult. No one knowingly wants to give up their life, their needs, their goals. ''They come to believe they're improving themselves and improving the world and it is then they are led into a psychological trap. It could happen to anybody.”

Steve Hassan – Leading American Exit-Counselor

 

[Smitty]

comment to Night Owl

For those who still beat themselves up about having joined a cult.....
''Nobody sets out to join a cult. No one knowingly wants to give up their life, their needs, their goals. ''They come to believe they're improving themselves and improving the world and it is then they are led into a psychological trap. It could happen to anybody.”
Steve Hassan – Leading American Exit-Counselor

Thanks for posting that quote. It is true. I add that a certain ex-scientologist considers that former members of corporate scientology are like ex-nazis, and therefore have certain obligations to society as a result. That may be true for that particular person, but there is no way to know that is a fact for anyone else.

 

[Emma]

Bump.

This is important stuff.

There is a tendancy amongst some exes to label any group they don't agree with as a cult. A cult has certain charcteristics that are common amongst them.

Here is another list:

http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised

Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.

Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.

Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.


‪- The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪- Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

‪- Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

‪-The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

‪- The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

‪- The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

‪- The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

‪- The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪- The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

‪- Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

‪- The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪- The group is preoccupied with making money.

‪- Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

‪- Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

‪- The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

Anyone who thinks ESMB is a cult or I am a cult leader should read these characteristics of a cult and take another look. If anyone is seriously seeing cultic characteristics emerge here PLEASE make your concerns known publicly so they can be addressed.

This is the best definition of a cult I have ever come across:

If you wish to go to the site:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/sn-cult.html
Definition of a 'Cult'

mathew



What makes some religions "cults" and others "mainstream"?

This is taken from Margot Adler's book Drawing Down the Moon: Witches, Druids, Goddess-Worshippers, and Other Pagans in America, a guide to contemporary neopaganism. She quotes P.E.I. Bonewitz on what to look for and avoid in any organization that promises wisdom by participating in its activities.

Score each item on a scale of 1 to 10 (or whatever is your favorite scale):

1. Internal control: the amount of internal political power exercised by leader(s) over members.
2. Wisdom claimed by leader(s): the amount of infallibility declared about decisions.
3. Wisdom credited to leader(s) by members; the amount of trust in decisions made by leader(s).
4. Dogma: the rigidity of reality concepts taught; the amount of doctrinal inflexibility.
5. Recruiting: the emphasis put on attracting new members; the amount of proselytizing.
6. Front groups: the number of subsidiary groups using names different from that of the main group.
7. Wealth: the amount of money and/or property desired or obtained; the degree of emphasis on members' donations.
8. Political power: the amount of external political influence desired or obtained.
9. Sexual manipulation of members by leader(s); the amount of control of sex lives of members.
10. Censorship: the amount of control over members' access to outside opinions on group: its doctrines: or its leader(s).
11. Dropout control: the intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.
12. Endorsement of violence when used by or for the group or its leader(s).
13. Paranoia: the amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies: the perceived power of opponents.
14. Grimness: the amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines, or its leader(s).

This list of warning signs preceded a list of neopagan groups, mostly American ones. Margot Adler stated that she hoped that there would be no groups on her list that scored too high on this scale.


Sound like any group you know?

 

[Tim Skog]

Thanks for this other list Emma. I particularly like Lalich and Langone's point about preoccupation with making money.

BTW if anyone thinks ESMB is a cult or that Emma is our cult leader . . . hmmm . . . might be an interesting thread there for the humor forum.

 

[Alanzo]

A cult is any relationship or group membership that pressures you to work against your own self-interests.

 

[Telepathetic]

A cult is any relationship or group membership that pressures you to work against your own self-interests.

I think you summed it up beautifully.

TP

 

[3rdman]

This is a well made definition. Matches many modern cults, especially Scientology quite well.


But should these two criterion be added?
-Lies and deceives non-members about real intentions and focuses of the cult until they are indicted into it
-Lies and deceives new members for purposes of manipulation and maintaining unquestionable loyalty

Or is this characteristic only shared by a few cults? Can anyone name a cult that is open and honest about itself?

 

[Tim Skog]

This is a well made definition. Matches many modern cults, especially Scientology quite well.


But should these two criterion be added?
-Lies and deceives non-members about real intentions and focuses of the cult until they are indicted into it
-Lies and deceives new members for purposes of manipulation and maintaining unquestionable loyalty

Or is this characteristic only shared by a few cults? Can anyone name a cult that is open and honest about itself?

Good point 3rdman. The only cult I know that is open and honest is Desteni.
(JOKE)