Did anyone else just get this email from the Whitehouse?

Graham Berry

Patron with Honors
My private view was that it would be naive to believe there would be any action or statement on this from the WH. For a couple of reasons: Obama has some close links to Farrakhan; Eric Holder has some close links to Farrakahn; and the Pols have been on a long term trend to "empower" religious communities through various funding mechanisms for years.

Going to Congress? Good luck with that. I think the only way to bring this to a head is via the courts. Let the Indie Scngsts start claiming tax deductions for Indie "services" (Not on a 'fixed donation schedule", but just what they have given to others for "Scn Services".) If the IRS dis-allows them, then you have a HUGE "Establishment Clause" issue, which would go I'm sure to the Supreme Court.

Unfortunately, it would cost upwards of $1 million to take it through the courts and up the ladder. It is the only route, I see though, that would impinge enough to make any kind of difference.

A brilliant "Establishment Clause" and "Equal Protection" idea to consider.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
tom20cruise6.jpg


There is something to think about.

The days of sending Tom Cruise to the White House to whisper in the ear of the Administration is OVER

They would not DARE use Tom Cruise as a photo op to Politicians while peddling Miscavige's lines.

We are down to 1 year left for Presidential re-election. Too much scruntiny.

Too many hard knocks to Tom Cruise's career.

I sincerely believe the usage of Scientology celebs for Political clout is DEAD.

When I looked at that picture two words sprang to mind:

Blowjob and Whackjob

Rant mode on/


I was born in Washington DC, at George Washington University hospital. I grew up in Washington DC in Georgetown... for a short time I lived on the top floor of an Embassy, my mother was the Ambassador's Executive Secretary... My friends parents all worked for "the government"... I grew up knowing that something was very wrong with our "Federal" government, there was no integrity, there was only money and a lust for power.

Everything in Washington DC is and has been for sale. There is no democracy, just money for actors who make occasional appearances to massage various interest groups, it is ALL a theatrical to fool public citizens.. the ONE congressman who was willing to meet with me face to face rather than through a Chief of Staff or whatever, who happened to be the sitting representative with the highest percentage popular vote in his district of all congressmen, was Cong John Traficant, he ended up going to federal prison. You see HE dared go after the IRS... and AIPAC/ADL's influence on the hill.

So did Scientology's old pals, The Spotlight, and Liberty Lobby and Willis Carto... and the Spotlight newspaper, Liberty Lobby et all.. was destroyed utterly... after a scientologist worked his way up through the organization from being a copy boy in the 1970's to being the #2 man with 'the keys to the kingdom'... while they were being sued by a guy represented by Lawrence Heller. When I informed Mr Carto that Lawrence heller was a lawyer/director for CST... Mr Carto suddenly understood some of what had happened to him..LINK

Before there was "the net" there was Willis Carto's populist operation.. his outfit first published the story of the USS Liberty being bombed and strafed by Israel to try and get us to attack Egypt in the 67 war. And the first expose about the Federal reserve, and most other of what are now internet classics...and TRUE.

The Federal government really is a theatrical... executive branch agencies are expected (encouraged) to screw up so that when their constituent writes their Senator, about a screwup, his staffer sends a letter to whatever agency, and helps them 'fix' the problem. John Q public thinks he was just helped by his representative... but even that was by design...

Congressmen shmooze ANYONE for the money or blowjobs. The US congress is bought and paid for by corporations and by AIPAC... $cientology is just one more corporation... with a Lobby firm, named Federal Legislative Associates and a lawfirm named Williams and Connolly representing David Miscavige and CST!

I found out about Williams and Connoly when the Washington post was added to RTC vs Lerma in 95 and the Posts law firm recused themselves due to conflict of interest and The Wash Post had to goto another firm...!!

Corrupt... its more like Gommorrah... and much like pre WWII Fascist Italy

IMO We need regime change...and a return to Constitutional rule, the place to go after scientology is at the State level....IMO.

Perhaps, having done in your face lobbying on capital hill for the scientology cause for a decade, I have grown --- worse than skeptical...

I sat down with Bono's chief of staff and HE TOLD ME the story of the drowning of Judge Swearinger's dog, and he just wanted to hear more juicy stories! (poke in the ribs, lets go have a drink at The Palm...)

Ive sat down with the Senate minority leader's staffers (all of them) at their group mansion on a secluded hillside next to Spout Run Parkway...who assured me that scientology would never get anything through the US Senate... but nothing on the record.

Ive voiced my opinion in front of charades like the CSCE "Commission for Security and Coorperation in Europe", in front of that slavering scientology italian lapdog Massimo Introvegne, and had my words erased from the record!

Ive been ejected from a public hearing full of fawning congressional morons for wearing a Scientology kills T-shirt, while in the hallway, staffers from other congressmen told me "we need your information, help us"...and then I did

I handed a 4" think briefing pack on scientology to a senate hearing chairman, and then watched OSA DSA DC , Sylvia Stanard, place her hands on the binder,while it was in this mans arms, and while pulling at it gently, repeat with TRs IN "You don't need this, give it to me, it is all lies, YOU don't need this, give it to me.." while I was in disbelief at what I was witnessing, and kept my eyes locked on that man's eyes and said :"Do you see what you are dealing with?????, do you SEEE!!!" and he did..."

Senator D'Amato from NY was a shoe in for his reelection, he sponsored a bill to condemn Germany for its "human rights Abuses" re scientology...everyone told me, don't bother going after Sen D'amato, he will win for sure... everyone knows he is corrupt... it doesnt matter.. but I spent a pile of (Mr Robert Minton's) cash on stamps and mailing letting the good people of New York know that Sen Damato was in bed with scientology... well, I did describe them as a satanic cult, but anyway, D'Amato lost!! and even the guy running against him, Shumer, had his staffers meet with me.. but that's another story..

I'm not bragging, I'm just saying, I've been there... and it is way worse than anybody thinks...

I was tutored on lobbying techniques by a staffer from Seagrams Lobby firm..and from VIACOM... I was tutored on how to get the dirt by an auditor in US Inspector General's Office, of the US Dept of Treasury, the IRS. People like this were my friends, they taught me.

Yes there were and perhaps are few good people on the hill but of those who survived, many are now running for the hills, as I have, cause they see the rise of the Neo-Con 4th Reich and their bankster owners...and some mysteriously fall out of upper story hi-rise balconies...and there have been a lot of suicides...

Frankly, it is because of these things that I believe our best chance is at the state level and the OWS movement..because our federal system is broken, having already been sold to the highest bidders, long ago....

Arnie Lerma

PS: And I was told we were close to having congressional hearings about scientology, where WE would be heard... so close that i was asked to compile lists of those who would willingly testify and who would need to be subpeona'd... and then there was 911...and everything turned upside down...
 
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Osiris

Patron with Honors
I got the reply too...

if nothing continues (to appear), to be happening,

I think another 6,155+ signature petition would be in order,

maybe on "The Scientology Fair Work for Fair Pay & Benefits Scandal"

& then another.......

And another....

until they have enough signature's & petitions they simply cannot ignore....

Good work to everyone who was involved in the current petition :clap:
 

jojo

Patron
I just got this in my inbox:



Why We Can't Comment on this Petition about the Church of Scientology


Thank you for signing the petition "EXAMINE THE GOVERNMENT'S FAILURE TO INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY CRIME, FRAUD AND ABUSE." We appreciate your participation in the We the People platform on WhiteHouse.gov.




The We the People Terms of Participation explain that "the White House may decline to address certain procurement, law enforcement, adjudicatory, or similar matters properly within the jurisdiction of federal departments or agencies, federal courts, or state and local government." The Department of Justice is charged with investigating federal crimes and enforcing federal criminal laws. Accordingly, the White House declines to comment on the specific law enforcement matter raised in this petition.


Check out this response on We the People.

I'm sure the email was sent to all the petitioners. The wording of this petition was questionable to begin with. The petition was way to broad and was aimed more at the government's failure than at the criminal activities of the church. I do think, however, that a new petition that addresses just one crime could work. For example. a re-evaluation of the tax-exempt eligibility of the Church of Scientology based on the circuitous nature of their organization, i.e., how the money donated to their organizations ends up being funneled back to COS, etc. or something along those lines. I'm terrible at writing but hopefully you get the idea.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
I didn't expect the petition to be taken seriously in the first place, thus I'm not surprised with the email. However, it's not a total bust..

It showed that over 5,000 people have concerns... if ever anything tragic occurs in the future involving corporate Scientology that causes a major scandal, we can always refer the media back to this petition which the White House chose to ignore.
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Tony Ortega on "Village Voice" did a really good analysis of the White House response.

But if you know how federal investigations work, you know that there's little chance Obama could discuss this topic, even if he wanted to. Federal agencies and their investigators tend to be very selective about what they say about completed, successful cases. But uncompleted ones, or closed investigations? They tend to say nothing.

Could the President, however, open an official investigation of his own Justice Department, and ask why a probe of Scientology never came to anything? Sure he could. But never in a million years based only on a petition signed by 6,000 people.

If, in fact, David Miscavige managed to fend off an FBI investigation by having someone with influence at the Justice Department apply pressure, that's something I'd like to know more about myself -- and hopefully, far better journalists than your narrator, with solid sources at Justice, can root it out. And of course, there's another possibility: if the FBI investigation is not, in fact, dead, we'd get the same response from the White House.

In the meantime, I do take some solace in the White House response. I had predicted, when the petition had just got going, that the Obama administration would dismiss it by saying it doesn't get involved in conflicts of a religious nature. I was wrong. Look again at the language of the response.

It's the Justice Department's job to enforce federal crime the White House writes. And Obama can't speak about this law enforcement matter.

At least, in this regard, Obama correctly places this matter in its proper context. This was not a question of religion. It was a matter of whether Scientology is committing federal crimes which should be treated as a law enforcement matter.

If Obama can't comment on such an investigation, at least he is not trying to pass it off as something less than what it is: reports of federal crime.
[/u]


Great Analysis Tony Ortega !
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Jason Spyres petition

I actually got a very similar response about the Jason Spyres petition, so I don't think we can read too much in about ongoing investigations and so forth.

Why We Can’t Comment on Jason Spyres
Thank you for signing the petition "Pardon Jason Spyres (K99397), an Illinois inmate serving a 30 year (now on 9th year) sentence on a marijuana charge." We appreciate your participation in the We the People platform on WhiteHouse.gov.

Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution gives the President the authority to grant "Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States." For more than 100 years, Presidents have relied on the Department of Justice and its Office of the Pardon Attorney for assistance in the exercise of this power. Requests for executive clemency for federal offenses should be directed to the Pardon Attorney, who conducts a review and investigation, and prepares the Department's recommendation to the President. Additional information and application forms are available on the Pardon Attorney's website.

The President takes his constitutional power to grant clemency very seriously, and recommendations from the Department of Justice are carefully considered before decisions are made. The White House does not comment, however, on individual pardon applications. In accordance with this policy and the We the People Terms of Participation–which explain that the White House may sometimes choose not to respond to petitions addressing certain matters—the White House declines to comment on the specific case addressed in this petition.

I really think they are just washing their hands of certain issues.
 

Truth&Honesty

Patron with Honors
I got this response as well. However, this is the SECOND time Obama's Whitehouse has been notified of the citizens discontent with scientology.

The first time was as a part of the Citizens Briefing Book to President Obama:

Revoke the Tax Exempt Status of the Church of Scientology, 52470 points ............................................

This received one of the highest votes in the entire Book!

Here is the website, check out page 26:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/Citizens_Briefing_Book_Final2.pdf

So the message is getting thru.

.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Without this board I doubt we'd have delivered 6,155 signatures. I'm sure the COS has the same protected status as other lobbyist's do so nothing will come of this unfortunately.
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/examine-government%E2%80%99s-failure-investigate-and-prosecute-church-scientology-crime-fraud-and-abuse/L27wg021?utm_source=wethepeople&utm_medium=response&utm_campaign=scientology

Wait a moment, Dag . . .

The Cof$ as a not-for-profit and "church" cannot "lobby" nor donate to any political campaign or political endeavor/party/politician.

Individual members of the church may do so, as individuals, . . . . . but if the Cof$ is organizing to get its members to concertedly donate each to their legal maximum . . . that too would be a violation of their status and illegal.

So two things . . . either they are not lobbying or, if they are, and we can prove it, we have another nail to put in their coffin.

R
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: This pisses me off.

You didn't study the issue too deeply. That long form BC was completely debunked by the alternative media. It was not only a complete fabrication, it was an amateurish job at that. The file that was released showed multiple layers, then there was the business of the issuance number not matching official records, and finally there is the other major question ... if they had his long form BC all along, why not release it from the start? No, the long delay, the stalling, the court fights, etc. alone would have destroyed the credibility of the long form BC even if it was a perfect CIA Rembrant of a forgery, which it wasn't.

There is always more dirt to be dug up, and it doesn't have to be on Obama personally, either.

Pete

This is correct . . . the Cert can be demonstrated to be a complete fraud . . . things like it stating as emanating from a hospital the name of which did not exist when he was born . . . it was formed by a merger of two hospitals and given that name well after he was born.

Etc.,

R
 

RogerB

Crusader
tom20cruise6.jpg


There is something to think about.

The days of sending Tom Cruise to the White House to whisper in the ear of the Administration is OVER

They would not DARE use Tom Cruise as a photo op to Politicians while peddling Miscavige's lines.

We are down to 1 year left for Presidential re-election. Too much scruntiny.

Too many hard knocks to Tom Cruise's career.

I sincerely believe the usage of Scientology celebs for Political clout is DEAD.

Correct again . . . :yes:

R
 

RogerB

Crusader
My private view was that it would be naive to believe there would be any action or statement on this from the WH. For a couple of reasons: Obama has some close links to Farrakhan; Eric Holder has some close links to Farrakahn; and the Pols have been on a long term trend to "empower" religious communities through various funding mechanisms for years.

Going to Congress? Good luck with that. I think the only way to bring this to a head is via the courts. Let the Indie Scngsts start claiming tax deductions for Indie "services" (Not on a 'fixed donation schedule", but just what they have given to others for "Scn Services".) If the IRS dis-allows them, then you have a HUGE "Establishment Clause" issue, which would go I'm sure to the Supreme Court.

Unfortunately, it would cost upwards of $1 million to take it through the courts and up the ladder. It is the only route, I see though, that would impinge enough to make any kind of difference.

This is good thinking . . . :yes:

One thing though, one can always go "pro se" . . . then the cost is only time. Of course a little resarch on the matter would be needed.

Indeed, prosecuting such a case representing oneself or a "class" of which you are a member, would garner huge publicity! :yes::biggrin:

I have represented myself in a US Court (Landlord and Tenant Court) . . . very easy to do, and is perfectly OK. Indeed, the Judge took particular care to accommodate me and facilitate my presentation . . . which rather irked the opposition :biggrin:

R
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Wait a moment, Dag . . .

The Cof$ as a not-for-profit and "church" cannot "lobby" nor donate to any political campaign or political endeavor/party/politician.

Individual members of the church may do so, as individuals, . . . . . but if the Cof$ is organizing to get its members to concertedly donate each to their legal maximum . . . that too would be a violation of their status and illegal.

So two things . . . either they are not lobbying or, if they are, and we can prove it, we have another nail to put in their coffin.

R
Roger,
It seems that the issue of lobbying religions has become another slippery slope with many grey areas:

"The Church of Scientology and the First Church of Christ, Scientist, are the only organized denominations to disclose any of their lobbying in 2010, according to the Center's research, likely because they hired outside lobbyists.


In 2010, the Church of Scientology spent $110,000, in part lobbying in favor of the National Criminal Justice Commission Act, which would create a blue-ribbon, bipartisan commission of experts tasked with reviewing the nation’s criminal justice system and offering recommendations for reform.


Since it began lobbying in 2003, the Church of Scientology has employed Greg Mitchell as its only lobbyist. Mitchell is a former chief of staff of ex-Rep. James Rogan (R-Calif.). "

Here's the entire article:

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/07/gods-lobbyists.html
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
This is good thinking . . . :yes:

One thing though, one can always go "pro se" . . . then the cost is only time. Of course a little resarch on the matter would be needed.

Indeed, prosecuting such a case representing oneself or a "class" of which you are a member, would garner huge publicity! :yes::biggrin:

I have represented myself in a US Court (Landlord and Tenant Court) . . . very easy to do, and is perfectly OK. Indeed, the Judge took particular care to accommodate me and facilitate my presentation . . . which rather irked the opposition :biggrin:

R

I was thinking more along the lines of whether Graham would be willing to take it on, probably at a huge loss (if notcompletely pro bono). More importantly, would he have an Indie to represent? Marty could have turned State's Evidence a long time ago, but hasn't. Makes me wonder how sincere he is?
 

RogerB

Crusader
Tony Ortega on "Village Voice" did a really good analysis of the White House response.

[/u][/b]

Great Analysis Tony Ortega !

Nice, very nice!

Thinking out a loud here :biggrin:

Tony O is very right . . . . :happydance:

Maybe this gives us a plan . . . .

For those interested :biggrin: none others need apply :p

As individuals, one is now in a position to thank the "White House" for their reply and correct guidance to refer our concerns to the Justice Dept. This then gives us the opening to submit the facts of our personal experiences and evidence of crimes etc., to the Justice Dept . . . and even reference the White House response to our petition.

The "FBI" and Justice Dept can only respond to complaints made and information received. They have no case to pursue if they are not given information.

This is our opportunity to flood them with the information and factual matters needed for them to be able to proceed and bring proper charges against both the Cof$ and pertinent individuals (i.e., Miscavage and/or other indiviiduals).

R
 

RogerB

Crusader
Roger,
It seems that the issue of lobbying religions has become another slippery slope with many grey areas:

"The Church of Scientology and the First Church of Christ, Scientist, are the only organized denominations to disclose any of their lobbying in 2010, according to the Center's research, likely because they hired outside lobbyists.


In 2010, the Church of Scientology spent $110,000, in part lobbying in favor of the National Criminal Justice Commission Act, which would create a blue-ribbon, bipartisan commission of experts tasked with reviewing the nation’s criminal justice system and offering recommendations for reform.


Since it began lobbying in 2003, the Church of Scientology has employed Greg Mitchell as its only lobbyist. Mitchell is a former chief of staff of ex-Rep. James Rogan (R-Calif.). "

Here's the entire article:

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/07/gods-lobbyists.html

Yes, this is good and correct . . . .

What they have done is employ a law firm/lawyer to represent/present their interests in matters before government.

I may have misread what I was responding to . . . in my early morning reading of the posts here, I responded to two thoughts: one being a mention of "Obama not wanting to offend the Cof$/Miscavige money support" and then reading what you wrote to mean that the Cof$ was lobbying directly rather than have an Attorney represent their interest.

Paying an attorney to represent/lobby their interest is legitimate.

R
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Yes, this is good and correct . . . .

What they have done is employ a law firm/lawyer to represent/present their interests in matters before government.

I may have misread what I was responding to . . . in my early morning reading of the posts here, I responded to two thoughts: one being a mention of "Obama not wanting to offend the Cof$/Miscavige money support" and then reading what you wrote to mean that the Cof$ was lobbying directly rather than have an Attorney represent their interest.

Paying an attorney to represent/lobby their interest is legitimate.

R
Actally, you were correct in your response to my post as I didn't know they would have to employ an outside lobbyist to represent them at the time of my post. Now I see how the game is rigged with ways to get around the spirit of the law.
 
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