Did Hub have any original, good, ideas?

TomKat

Patron Meritorious
I'm sorry to labour the point, perhaps I'm just bored this evening, but in the 50's most adding machines were mechanical and not electrical. The 'held down 7's' made perfect sense to me at the time though.

Railways run on electricity with lines and terminals but they have nothing to do with the mind.
Well it was natural for LRH, a "nuclear physicist," to think in those terms :)

I saw a 1920s Burroughs mechanical adding machine a few years ago, in a college professor's office. Burroughs as in William Burroughs, the Scientologist/Beat writer. The same company, through various mergers, was responsible for the famous Univac computer Hubbard would have known about back then.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Do you imagine there are scientists studying the positive effects of scientology and writing it up in some professional journal?
With a $3 billion balance sheet, the COS could have remedied this during the past
thirty years by hiring a few unbiased third-party professionals to provide this missing link
in it's science. Easily. Let the clinical testing prevail and let the chips fall where they
may. Stop the argument dead in its tracks.

Obviously, no one wanted this or wants it now. Obviously.

I know years ago, people who were about to attest to OT7 had a trip to the medical doctor
on the routing form. Flag did not want people attesting and dying a few weeks later. If you
got a bad medical report back, you were immediately -- I mean that day -- removed from
the base and sent back home to fix whatever it was and come back with a clean bill of health
before attesting. Or not.

So much for all that . . . the promises and claims of Dianetics and NOTS.

Maybe that's the clue why no one wants any third-party clinical testing of results done. :whistling:
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm not sure you live in the real world. If someone gets confused and finds a stable datum to get out of that confusion, is that going to be DOCUMENTED somewhere? If someone is sad and "takes a walk" extroverting their attention, is that going to be DOCUMENTED in say, the New York Times? Do you imagine there are scientists studying the positive effects of scientology and writing it up in some professional journal? Is that the world you live in?
:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: You definitely don't live in the real world! Seriously! :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

OK, I realize you are pretending to be stupid, but I don't think you really are. I'm obviously talking about significant bits of Hubbard's "tech", not the minor "take a walk" stuff you pretend I'm referencing. If it (significant bits of "tech") was useful in the real world, you would recognize the techniques, procedures, formulas, etc. in books, references, papers, etc. And it isn't there.

It isn't there because, in the real world, where stuff has to actually work, it wasn't found useful.
 
Last edited:

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
That is an interesting argument

Of course, sometimes and places bits and pieces have been picked up; it is no longer uncommon to find psychologists willing to do "past life regressions"

And of course "Psychedelic" means "mind manifesting" which is of course essentially "OT"

I see you underlined "believed"

Certainly the significant thing about Carol was that there was no belief on her part; the process produced good result.

The real world doesn't always pick up quickly even on things which are easily demonstrated in material terms

Are you familiar with Anton Semmelweiss?

And another factor is CoS jealously holds onto the copyrights and blocks any attempt to do workable things with Hubbard's work they can't control and feed upon
Nope. You failed. However, I am delighted with the "psychedelic = OT'" computation. That's creative.

If the "tech" worked, it would show up in the real world. You'd recognize it, a procedure, a technique, there it would be. But it didn't show up (even allowing for your "creative" redefinitions) so it wasn't workable in the real world. You can't disprove that because it's true -- but you can hallucinate all you want -- that's the way Scientology belief works.
 
Last edited:

Gib

Crusader
Au contraire, bon ami.

These were written in the very late 40's. They show the inner mental workings of troubled man
beset by many personal flaws, not unlike many of us during some stages of our lives. A normal,
garden variety "homo sap," if you will.

Five years later, by 1952 in Philadelphia, Ron claimed to have visited many other universes,
discovered all the basic secrets of the universe and life, and touted many incredible OT powers.

I had listened to all the PDC lectures five times through, the first thirty ten times through, so I can
say I knew them cold. I knew exactly what he claimed.

How did he go from a "normal" to an advanced operating thetan in just five years?

Once I found the affirmations, I tried to locate his path to his godlike state. I realized that there
was none. He knowingly made all this up, was extremely delusional, lived in a pretend personal
world, or was just a spinner of tall tales. Take your pick.

His ascent was simply impossible.

I think the affirmations are very important. They gave me the evidence long ago that I was conned.
It became an indisputable fact. And trust me, I was one of his biggest believers for the longest time.

Affirmations . . . a veritable smoking gun.

I was also one of the very first citizen researchers to have located the Robert Heinlein-Hubbard letters
from 1946-51. I had contacted the library at UC Santa Cruz, where they were archived, and had them
send me copies of the over 100 pages of private correspondence. I read them over very carefully.

I realized Hubbard went from full-blown "aberee" in the late 40's to (supposedly by '52) full-blown
operating thetan with myriad super powers essentially overnight. The penny had dropped, as they
say, for me in an instant . . . again.

Robert Heinlein-Hubbard letters . . . a second veritable smoking gun.

Of course, YMMV (your mileage may vary), LOL
Interesting question to ask "How did he go from a "normal" to an advanced operating thetan in just five years?"

It's funny cuz all scientologists have to do the "basics" nowadays, that is read and listen to Hubbard from day 1 as published by the COS, but unknown secrets such as the heinlein -hubbard letters and even the heinlien - campbell letters during the 1949 period before publication of Dianetics is a secret.

But I think Si Hayawka nailed it to tee.

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/hayakawa.htm

"I have long felt that there are dangers to the writer as well as to the reader in pulp fiction. It did not occur to me until I read Dianetics to try to analyze the special dangers entailed in the profession of science-fiction writing. The art consists in concealing from the reader, for novelistic purposes, the distinctions between established scientific facts, almost-established scientific hypotheses, scientific conjectures, and imaginative extrapolations far beyond what has even been conjectured. The danger of this technique lies in the fact that, if the writer of science-fiction writes too much of it too fast and too glibly and is not endowed from the beginning with a high degree of semantic self-insight (consciousness of abstracting), he may eventually succeed in concealing the distinction between his facts and his imaginings from himself. In other words, the space-ships and the men of Mars and the atomic disintegrator pistols acquire so vivid a verbal existence that they may begin to have, in the writer's evaluations, 'actual' existence. Like Willy Loman in The Death of a Salesman, he may eventually fall for his own, pitch."

"the dangers to the writer as well as the reader"

opps, we was readers of Hubbard and certainly applied the number of times over = certainty, or equals hypnosis or equals brainwashing or equals being a ronbot or a scientologists. Marketing is to repeat the message.

Here's Ron with Mary Sue believing in the emeter, this tape recording fully supports SI Hayawka summation, that is Hubbard wrote too fast and fully believed his own shit, imaginings, coupled with the so called science of the emeter. And Hubbard used rhetoric to expand his beliefs, until in the end he said he failed.

And this is research? And I fell for it.

 
Last edited:

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
He knew he was fabulating all that!
(to make himself interesting)

they smoke good stuff
and we ate the shit
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
Attempts to falsely create the impression that Scientology is an open - not secretive - subject.



Attempt at asserting plausible deniability of any kooky or repugnant parts of Scientology as merely being a "record of results of many hours of experimentation," etc.



A "huge work," much too big for almost anyone to fully grasp, plus it keeps changing, thus, if someone finds something strange or objectionable, it's easy to locate some part of Scientology that says the opposite.

These are PR responses. Scientologists are conditioned to repeat such responses automatically. Properly conditioned Scientologists are expected to feel, deep down, that their literal survival depends on repeating such PR.



key-to-life.jpg
Your OPINION is noted.
 
Meester Clay Pidgeon - if scientology worked - wouldn't the orgs be packed, overflowing even? If word got out that scientology could deliver what it promised you couldn't keep people away. Am I not correct?

The answer is right in the pl Keeping Scientology Working - You can only be upbraided for lack of results.

That's the funny thing about having to M-7 that pl multiple times - it never sunk in that the fatal flaw in all of Scientology can so simply be stated, and what is worse, overlooked by the bulk of Scio. adherents.

Sure, there are wins here and there, I got plenty of them. But the eps that Scientology promised? Tumbleweeds blowing through the orgs reception.

HOWEVER! An original Hubbard idea? I would think perhaps power processing might qualify - or creative processing - or objectives - or listing and nulling. I think he had a bunch of original ideas such as GPMs, R2-12, 3M & other goals listing stuff but I also don't know if they were all that fruitful.
There are some oldtimers who swear by that stuff, and believe Hubbs gave it the deep 6 and then ran with implant GPMs such as found in CC, OT2, OT3 R-6 implant. :confused:

I must say, that I was never at Saint Hill in it's haydays and I don't know how many of those processes were the fruit of his students genius minds - perhaps Roger, Veda or some of the others have a better understanding to their genesis. But if they were his or someone else's ideas, workable or not, they are still pretty creative stuff.

Mimsey
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
He was doing magick, which attempts to create an effect in the world using only the power of imagination and will. There's nothing very mature about declaring things and saying "so mote it be!" but I'm sure there are a lot of people over 40 practicing witchcraft in the US. He experienced firsthand that power when Jack Parsons called on Mars to shipwreck LRH in the Gulf after stealing Parson's yacht and girlfriend. Then he spent the next 20 or so years trying to dissect and understand the power of the mind and spirit with a scientific mindset. And that was original!

Sounds like you're cool with your spiritual guru doing that and then somehow leading you on an ethical path.

Say, I've got a bridge for sale. Interested?
 

Veda

Sponsor
I'm not saying you are deliberately attempting to deceive others, only that Scientology planted in you a "stimulus response mechanism" or "circuit" that spouts, almost word per word, deliberately misleading, official, Scientology cult PR.

Even though you know better, and it's years later, you still repeat it.

Scientology's books, tapes, and vids are not representative of the bulk of Scientology materials.

You know that.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
HOWEVER! An original Hubbard idea? I would think perhaps power processing might qualify - or creative processing - or objectives - or listing and nulling. I think he had a bunch of original ideas such as GPMs, R2-12, 3M & other goals listing stuff but I also don't know if they were all that fruitful.
There are some oldtimers who swear by that stuff, and believe Hubbs gave it the deep 6 and then ran with implant GPMs such as found in CC, OT2, OT3 R-6 implant. :confused:
That might be a good list but note that these bits are only valuable (if they are) and useful within the Scientology context. Outside of that context, they're just silly.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Meester Clay Pidgeon - if scientology worked - wouldn't the orgs be packed, overflowing even? If word got out that scientology could deliver what it promised you couldn't keep people away. Am I not correct?
Well at one time this was more or less the case. There
have been many accounts of expansion of scientology
organisations.

One I was part of was the 1980 FEBC evolution. For one year or maybe more ( I was only on course for approx a year)
there was 400 plus students on course at any one time with
people arriving and leaving continually. This was just before
the destruction of the missions.

Since that time especially CO$ management has been
engaged in destroying itself, quite successfully, and
garnered an avalanche of negative publicity including
a movie and several TV series. Just saw one programme
new to me, an episode of "America's book of secrets"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3676404/
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
I'm not saying you are deliberately attempting to deceive others, only that Scientology planted in you a "stimulus response mechanism" or "circuit" that spouts, almost word per word, deliberately misleading, official, Scientology cult PR.

Even though you know better, and it's years later, you still repeat it.

Scientology's books, tapes, and vids are not representative of the bulk of Scientology materials.

You know that.
As far as I am concerned , Books, tapes, and vids are all there is. Everything else is just opinions. You are welcome to yours.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Well at one time this was more or less the case. There
have been many accounts of expansion of scientology
organisations.

One I was part of was the 1980 FEBC evolution. For one year or maybe more ( I was only on course for approx a year)
there was 400 plus students on course at any one time with
people arriving and leaving continually. This was just before
the destruction of the missions.

Since that time especially CO$ management has been
engaged in destroying itself, quite successfully, and
garnered an avalanche of negative publicity including
a movie and several TV series. Just saw one programme
new to me, an episode of "America's book of secrets"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3676404/
Where exactly were there 400+ students on course at any one time? Are you talking about at Flag, when staff from the lower class orgs came for FEBC training? Or at some particular organization?

I was at Boston org from 1979 -86 as a staff member. We had a couple staff sent off for FEBC training and the way it was explained beforehand, this training was the equivalent of training an auditor up through Class VIII (or was it XII?) and these staff would come back and boom the org.

They came back alright, but I didn't observe any noticeable difference in how Boston Org performed. It struggled the entire time I was there. If I got a $30.00 paycheck I was surprised, as this was much higher than average.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
As far as I am concerned , Books, tapes, and vids are all there is. Everything else is just opinions. You are welcome to yours.
Hubbard can be clearly shown through policy letters that he wrote (issued to ALL Scientologists) that he considered the green volumes ("third dynamic tech") to be equally important to the red volumes (technical bulletins), and that this was absolutely part of Scientology. This isn't a matter of opinion. It's factual.

As Mike Rinder recently wrote:
"...it is actually a fundamental doctrine of scientology that one does NOT interpret Hubbard’s words. You duplicate, understand and apply them."
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-takes-over-the-world/

Hubbard clearly intended that Scientology policy (in the form of HCO PL's, LRH advices, etc.) didn't just apply to Scientology staff members. Rather, it applied to ALL Scientologists everywhere, and eventually it would apply to everyone on the planet.

“Once the world is Clear – a nation, a state, a city or a village – the Scientology-organization in the area becomes its government! And once this has taken place the only policy accepted as valid is Scientology policy.”
Hubbard Lecture – 9 January 1962: Future Org Trends.

If your only interest is in the books, tapes, and videos, and you wish to restrict your study to those publications, certainly that is your right.

But if you're saying that that is all there is to Scientology then that's just a failure to acknowledge reality.
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
Hubbard can be clearly shown through policy letters that he wrote (issued to ALL Scientologists) that he considered the green volumes ("third dynamic tech") to be equally important to the red volumes (technical bulletins), and that this was absolutely part of Scientology. This isn't a matter of opinion. It's factual.

As Mike Rinder recently wrote:
"...it is actually a fundamental doctrine of scientology that one does NOT interpret Hubbard’s words. You duplicate, understand and apply them."
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-takes-over-the-world/

Hubbard clearly intended that Scientology policy (in the form of HCO PL's, LRH advices, etc.) didn't just apply to Scientology staff members. Rather, it applied to ALL Scientologists everywhere, and eventually it would apply to everyone on the planet.

“Once the world is Clear – a nation, a state, a city or a village – the Scientology-organization in the area becomes its government! And once this has taken place the only policy accepted as valid is Scientology policy.”
Hubbard Lecture – 9 January 1962: Future Org Trends.

If your only interest is in the books, tapes, and videos, and you wish to restrict your study to those publications, certainly that is your right.

But if you're saying that that is all there is to Scientology then that's just a failure to acknowledge reality.
Green on white is Scientology organizational tech to be sure. Something needed to expand the tech into society via a 3D. Red on white is another story. It IS the tech. Pardon my oversight.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Nope. You failed. However, I am delighted with the "psychedelic = OT'" computation. That's creative.

If the "tech" worked, it would show up in the real world. You'd recognize it, a procedure, a technique, there it would be. But it didn't show up (even allowing for your "creative" redefinitions) so it wasn't workable in the real world. You can't disprove that because it's true -- but you can hallucinate all you want -- that's the way Scientology belief works.
Like HELL it didn't show up...

It is certainly true I can not PROVE this but I used my buddy's death from cancer to do independent research. Examining m own timetrack I discovered an anomaly. Comparing that anomaly to long developed and carefully examined database indicated the anomaly was produced by a perception of my friend's cancer five months before it was diagnosed.

THEREFORE:

I theorized if I can perceive it then medical science can perceive it.

But how?

I then theorized the best place to look would be the blood stream and I sketched out an obvious plan for experimental research.

But...

I had no avenue for publication. ESMB ain't the only place I get treated like shit. I did find a way to establish a potential comm line.

Four years later the blood test for very early detection of cancer which my research predicted was found at Mass General Hospital

Go ahead and piss on me all day long. Line up Lotus and Layton and let my pal PTS4 join in if he's so disposed. I don't care. I don't matter if I die unknown on the street. What matters is that blood test is saving lives even as we speak

And much of Hubbard's (and his colleagues) work has been psychedlically manifested too
 
Top