Did LRH admit he failed?

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander

". . . >> TRUE INFORMATION: Mr. Starkey, who was appointed by L. Ron Hubbard as the Executor of his trust states: . . . One of the first things I was briefed on was the irresponsible activities of Steve Pfauth and his drinking habits. . . ."


Wait a minute!

Do you mean THIS Norman Starkey?

Sunny. They were all in the Hole in 2006 through mid 2007 when I left.

Starkey was in more trouble than anyone I know. POB let him out of the Hole to go to Italy to be the Minister of the wedding of TC and Katie Holmes. his alcohol

Starkey has a problem with alcohol (which is why I refer to him as Captain Morgan Starkey). He got drunk at the after wedding party and made a pass at Brooke Shields. Her husband got upset and complained to Miscavige about the behavior of his hand picked “minister.”

Starkey was sent back to the Hole in utter disagrace with orders that the others in the Hole were to physically assault him or they would get the same treatment (as everyone in the Hole had “let POB down” by “putting an SP on his lines”).

Is this the same Norman Starkey?

Sounds like an all too obvious case of POT KETTLE BLACK to me. :yes:

So, so amused by this.

48DF8A3D3FB51EEDA6C325DC30E54E26331843.jpg
:lol:
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
So, I purchased regular Kindle version, went to Barnes & Nobles and got a paper version and 15 minutes ago paid for "Enhanced Edition" on Kindle.
Altogether about $60 worth. Good book is good. About 70% through it.

I am just pissed that the "Enhanced Edition" is not supported by my device (Kindle HD, PC, smartphone), even though it's advertised otherwise.
WTF? Amazon? Fucking fix it fast, please. :angry: Anyone with Iphone/Ipad got Sarge's confession?

Hey, Mr. Wright - care to put the vid on youtube, since some of us paid for it and didn't get it?
 
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Maybe they took it down for a good reason... like because it wasn't true.

BTW, how did you manage to find this if it was taken down? Do you have a link to the cached version ?

What, you mean that something that the COS said wasn't true?:eyeroll: In all seriousness, since I doubt that most of the rest of the 'true information' on the attack site is also bogus, that would be a weird explanation. Perhaps they just didn't want to draw any more attention to Sarge's story?

In answer to your other question, as you can see from my previous post, I found it cached at google. Last I checked, however, it is no longer there.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Some background:

Miscavige was, essentially, the general manager of Scientology during the early 1980s. The intrigue, and paranoia, of this period is covered in books such as 'Messiah or Madman?' in chapters such as 'The Billion Dollar Caper' and 'The Savior's Revenge'.

Hubbard was very concerned with being held accountable for his decades of fraudulent and abusive actions, as he "smashed his name into history," and created the Scientology "juggernaut," in accordance the the "pink legs" Bolivar PL writings.

Hubbard had his priorities, and, apparently, had a phobia for anyone with a subpoena, a badge, or anyone wearing a judicial robe. It's noteworthy that two other cult leaders, Moon of the Moonies, and Lyndon LaRouche, went to prison for things such as tax evasion, served their time in prison during which they continued to oversee their cult's operations, finally left prison, and continued as the leaders of their cults. This in contrast to Hubbard. Something to ponder.

Hubbard by could have by-passed Miscavige and established other communication lines. For example, Hubbard could have called David Mayo on the telephone. He also could have spoken with any of the major Mission holders. He chose not to do so.


__________​


From a 1986 interview of Martin Samuels, former Mission holder and founder of Delphian school:


"Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns.

"The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...

"The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He'd let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor.

"And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur, Inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he 'raped' his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.

"And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who 'is this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior', surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.

"And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said. 'My God! I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place..."



__________​


Excerpt from the 1991 David Mayo article on 'Clear':

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."


And from author Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo from August 1986:

"What worried me was that I saw some things he did and statements he made that showed his intentions were different from what they appeared to be...

"He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."



_________​


According to Jesse Prince, from 'The ever changing tech of Scientology':

"...Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders database of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology..." http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/jesse.htm


__________​

About 1983:

Reposted with permission.


Annie told me a lot of stories while we worked around the clock on the never ending Gold org board/postings when I was WDC Gold and she was CO CMO Gold in 1999/2000.

Just a few random things I can remember is that she and LRH lived at the Creston ranch in San Luis Obispo -- LRH lived there under some other identity and the locals were told that Annie was his grand daughter, living with him to take care of him. She said she used to do all his haircuts, type up all his dictations (Battlefield Earth and Mission Earth included), he C/Sed her every day on OT III when she was on that level. He took himself in session all the time. He told her wild stories about math and how to figure out certain things about the universe with math (I must admit I didn't retain anything she told me about that -- too complex for a 3am conversation at the time).

For a very long period, she drove him around the US in a huge RV - they were always on the road, just the two of them and whatever pets they had. She said it was stressful as she had to deal with driving, meals, laundry, directions, where to park/stay, security, mailpack pickup/deliveries. He was in the back dictating the books and replies to traffic, etc., which she had to type too. She wasn't complaining, just saying that it was wild times with a lot of adventures and interesting keeping up with everything.

-snip-


^^ Thanks very much, Veda.

So that puts about a year then - 1983-84, when Hubbard was still pretty sharp and doing fine.

-snip-

There's been some (very little, but some) puzzled speculation over at MartyWorld as to why Hubbard would have spent his time writing science fiction novels rather than concentrating on the OT levels. The official view is that the OT levels are complete, and that Hubbard had completed his mission of giving Mankind the "Bridge," etc., otherwise why would he have spent his time writing science fiction novels?

And now there's the ambiguous "I failed" comment which was accompanied by the statement that Hubbard was going to visit a particular star and orbit it for a while, just to get his ruds in or whatever.

What a mess.

pg44_2.jpg
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think Marty realizes that he [strike]will be[/strike] IS the next total failure [strike]if he were to step[/strike] having stepped into those shoes. So he is madly trying to change the program. Of course, he's got to come up with a new name. He can't call it Scientology. I bet he's surveying names as we speak, LOL!

Martyrology?
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
It does make for a remarkably convenient 'proof' of ron's fundamentally humble character if a person chooses to see it that way. :eyeroll:

No no. A humble person would know he or she has achieved great things despite being unworthy or a flawed instrument. They are humble because they realise how easy it was for them, or how little they have achieved.

humble: low, modest, unpretentious, having a low opinion of oneself or one's claims.

This does not describe the Great Liar at any stage in his career.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
yeah...

holding on to such an idea as the planet helatrobus into the final act is not reccommended

on the other hand, my experience as an auditor served me in tremendous stead when i was tending my best friend as he died of cancer. i've written it up on this board before and will again soon as i get the laptop div 6 gave me for xmas online

it's the basic concepts of dianetics, scientology and auditing that are sound. and i use them melding their mind/knowledge/spirit matrix with the heart/wisdom/soul of the judeochristian

May the outcome be worth your input, but the basic concepts of dianetics, scientology and auditing are not sound. They are evil in concept and bad for the individuals who believe in them and to whom they are applied. Of course they work, That is the main problem
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
OK, thanks. That's really messed up that they're calling it a Kindle product when it's not fully compatible with a Kindle! :duh:
I'm guessing it would work with the Kindle Fire maybe? Because on the Fire you can watch videos and access the web.. Just a thought.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm not surprised by LRH's death-bed confession in the slightest. It makes perfect sense.

In many ways, in almost all ways, L. Ron Hubbard did fail. He went after psychiatrists after Dianetics because he was pissed that they shut him out of their little club and refused to acknowledge the value of his work. That's when he really created this whole thing about the "psychs". Despite his swashbuckling confidence, he really wanted approval.

LRH wanted to be seen on the world's stage as a genius, a brilliant man, an innovator and someone who moved society forward and made a great contribution. But he wrestled with the demons of his need for absolute power and his greed. I think he had contempt for the Scientologists that followed him ("I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member") which is why he humiliated so many people in the organization and in his private life - he was externalizing his own contempt. Ultimately, he wanted to win a Pulitzer Prize or a Nobel Peace Prize or something that would say he was a great man in the eyes of the world.

But after Scientologists went to prison for infiltrating, burglarizing and wiretapping (he should have gone too) and after he'd been on the run for tax evasion and other crimes on the Apollo, I think he must have known before his death that something had gone terribly, terribly wrong.

Maybe he was drugged and delusional when he said he'd failed, but people say this kind of stuff before they die all the time. Maybe he had a real spiritual vision - unlike the crap he'd been telling/selling people for years, sort of like in the movies where the man finds out the magic potions he's been selling for years as a scam really work when the genie appears. Maybe he saw God.

In other words, he remembered suddenly that it wasn't about the money after all, but that he wanted to be admired, and instead, he was hiding like a wharf rat, dying in private when he should have been feted by society. And, even worse, he wasn't going to be able to turn the church over to another man, or son, who, (as he considered himself to be), was, for all his faults, at least a thinker/writer/intellectual, but to David M, who was at best a vulgarian, not intellectual at all, and was a creation of all that was wrong with Scientology.

LRH failure was that he created David Miscavige, Son of Scientology. (John McCain felt the same way when he unleashed Sarah Palin onto the free world.)

LRH knew he failed because he would never be seen as a real man of the arts, but a snake-oil salesman. He had all the money he wanted in the end, more than he needed, but it wasn't about the money because he couldn't take that with him, and DM ripped him off anyway before he died so he was probably broke anyway.

It was the approval - and not from the people he brainwashed, but from his peers. And it wasn't going to happen. That's what he found out in the end.

His legacy would be considered duplicitous, covert, and ultimately something shameful. And that hurt him deeply.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Any word on what's in the missing Sarge videos I can't play on my Kindle?

Anyone?


Giving the Sarge topic some more thought:

The COS is not defending LRH or offering a rebuttal (LRH was healthy and strong, fully OT in capability, clearly died causatively) about Sarge's comments on their extensive Lawrence Wright Going Clear rebuttal website. Which in fact is very nit-picky about many small and obscure details in the book.

They're 100% mum about Sarge's comments, arguably a big reveal in the book. The silence is deafening, as they say.

Their silence and reluctance to defend on that point is a total confirmation that what Sarge said is honest and true.

They have the opportunity to defend freely on their website. They don't.

Their silence is your answer about Sarge. They don't understand or appreciate that significance . . . as yet. :no:

Silence can often tell the tale in a session, in life . . . and on the Internet. :whistling:

:yes: A guru once said:


quotemarkleft.png
If you tell the truth, it becomes a part of your past.
If you lie, it becomes a part of your future.
quotemarkright.png


PS: If I were a trained CS, I'd circle "Sarge comments" in red as a "hot button" (pc doesn't want to get near) in their folders. :coolwink:

A key plot point, thank you for this!
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
If Steve 'Sarge' Pfauth were willing to answer some direct questions about LRH and his last days, what would those questions be?

Sarge I'm sure is sitting on a hotbed of controversy and commotion right now. By saying what he did, he has brought the hatred of the "official" church as well as Marty World, down on his head. He has managed to get both camps to agree that he is evil or delusional for saying what he said. I wouldn't want to be Sarge right now. Can you imagine Marty and DM, talking on the phone: "Well, we both agree we have to handle this flap with Sarge, to protect LRH's image" and agreeing on some strategies? LOL!

OSA's probably crawling all over his lines.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Some background:

Miscavige was, essentially, the general manager of Scientology during the early 1980s. The intrigue, and paranoia, of this period is covered in books such as 'Messiah or Madman?' in chapters such as 'The Billion Dollar Caper' and 'The Savior's Revenge'.

Hubbard was very concerned with being held accountable for his decades of fraudulent and abusive actions, as he "smashed his name into history," and created the Scientology "juggernaut," in accordance the the "pink legs" Bolivar PL writings.

Hubbard had his priorities, and, apparently, had a phobia for anyone with a subpoena, a badge, or anyone wearing a judicial robe. It's noteworthy that two other cult leaders, Moon of the Moonies, and Lyndon LaRouche, went to prison for things such as tax evasion, served their time in prison during which they continued to oversee their cult's operations, finally left prison, and continued as the leaders of their cults. This in contrast to Hubbard. Something to ponder.

Hubbard by could have by-passed Miscavige and established other communication lines. For example, Hubbard could have called David Mayo on the telephone. He also could have spoken with any of the major Mission holders. He chose not to do so.


__________​


From a 1986 interview of Martin Samuels, former Mission holder and founder of Delphian school:


"Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns.

"The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...

"The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He'd let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor.

"And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur, Inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he 'raped' his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.

"And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who 'is this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior', surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.

"And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said. 'My God! I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place..."



__________​


Excerpt from the 1991 David Mayo article on 'Clear':

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."


And from author Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo from August 1986:

"What worried me was that I saw some things he did and statements he made that showed his intentions were different from what they appeared to be...

"He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."



_________​


According to Jesse Prince, from 'The ever changing tech of Scientology':

"...Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders database of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology..." http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/jesse.htm


__________​

About 1983:






There's been some (very little, but some) puzzled speculation over at MartyWorld as to why Hubbard would have spent his time writing science fiction novels rather than concentrating on the OT levels. The official view is that the OT levels are complete, and that Hubbard had completed his mission of giving Mankind the "Bridge," etc., otherwise why would he have spent his time writing science fiction novels?

And now there's the ambiguous "I failed" comment which was accompanied by the statement that Hubbard was going to visit a particular star and orbit it for a while, just to get his ruds in or whatever.

What a mess.

pg44_2.jpg

Thank you for this. Seen it before, but it bears repeating.
 
Maybe what he mean't was that he failed to tell the truth. :whistling:

sadly, that is unlikely

i think it more likely that he was painfully aware of failing in his grandiose and arguably megalomaniacal vision and also in being separate and separated from so many people he might have been close with at the end

one can die well but few do
 
I think Ron was ill and depressed, and was just sharing his feelings and insights in the moment, as Narcissists do, with a very ego-centric viewpoint. It was all about him, all the time, even at the end of his life! Sarge was a trusted confidant and helper that Ron depended on, one of a few that Ron kept close to him toward the end of his life...not just a stable hand. I believe his version of what happened, and I thank him for giving the author an interview! :yes:
 
No no. A humble person would know he or she has achieved great things despite being unworthy or a flawed instrument. They are humble because they realise how easy it was for them, or how little they have achieved.

humble: low, modest, unpretentious, having a low opinion of oneself or one's claims.

This does not describe the Great Liar at any stage in his career.

The statement was intentionally ironic. Nor was it subtly so.

Nonetheless, no doubt we can expect to see some such 'explanation' of the remark emanating from the loyalist factions.


Mark A. Baker
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Sarge I'm sure is sitting on a hotbed of controversy and commotion right now. By saying what he did, he has brought the hatred of the "official" church as well as Marty World, down on his head. He has managed to get both camps to agree that he is evil or delusional for saying what he said. I wouldn't want to be Sarge right now. Can you imagine Marty and DM, talking on the phone: "Well, we both agree we have to handle this flap with Sarge, to protect LRH's image" and agreeing on some strategies? LOL!
I'm pretty confident predicting that: (a) the Marty camp is not going to assert that Sarge is either evil or delusional; and (b) Marty has the Sarge situation handled, or at least handled to the extent it can possibly be handled -- and the way to best handle it is not to piss off or antagonize Sarge, or make him a victim. The basis of my prediction is the following exchange on Marty's blog:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/mission-statement/#comment-252004
Pierrot | January 28, 2013 at 11:07 am | Reply

”Judging by what Sarge reported to Lawrence Wright about LRH’s state of mind in his last weeks, about
feeling he had “failed”, I think LRH saw how far short of his goals he had fallen, in establishing the CoS as a “good” church in accordance with his own ideals. But that’s an aside.”

I didn’t read Wright’s book, and not sure I will, however that statement about Hubbard saying he “failed” is quoted in many posts nowadays. Could someone get hold of Sarge and ask him the exact form, context,etc to get exactly (if possible) what Hubbard was referring to? Did he feel Total absolute failure? Did he fail to clear the planet while he was alive? Did he fail to establish an entity to carry on his work? Did he fail to tie his shoe laces? Whatever – that generality just is of no use whatsoever
c2d94d163a566268e73c8b0195b6c03a
martyrathbun09 | January 28, 2013 at 11:14 am | Reply

I already did. It will be afforded the full context L. Ron Hubbard deserves.
 
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