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Did LRH go bonkers?

Ulduz

Patron with Honors
Couple years ago I run across an Internet article about the last two years of LRH’s life. According to the article, LRH spent much of his time in a mental hospital. He was incoherent and hallucinating nonstop. It looked like he was creating a new MEST universe. Unfortunately I did not write down the article’s URL. I would like to learn more about the final days of LRH.
There is an interview of L. Ron Hubbard Junior on the Internet. The Junior says that his father believed that he [LRH] is Satan. Can anything be crazier than this?
There is a secret HCOB where L. Ron Hubbard writes that “L” is for Lucifer, not for Lafayette, as previously thought. My friend saw that HCOB but was not allowed to copy it. The bulletin is short, about ½ page. In it LRH says that God did injustice to Lucifer, and now it is time to bring justice to Satan. However, he did not elaborate what he meant by that.
Overall the picture of lRH’s mental health is very bleak and it looks like, finally, the insanity of his teachings caught up with him.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
LRH was apparently normal at age 13 when he became an Eagle Scout, one of the youngest ever. But between then and his going to college something went very badly wrong, either an inherited mental problem which emerged at puberty, or a major problem with his father, or side-issues from drug abuse or all of these, and from then on he was seriously crazy, as see his naval history, his medical history, his marital history and his post-war involvement with black magic, not to mention his abusive relationship with his children by Polly.

The success of Dianetics was a fluke which enabled him to get crazier, to indulge his fantasies, to make money, get laid, do drugs, live in his own crazy world (as other people have pointed out).

He didn't go bonkers in the last two years, if that is the question. He always was.
 
Couple years ago I run across an Internet article about the last two years of LRH’s life. According to the article, LRH spent much of his time in a mental hospital. He was incoherent and hallucinating nonstop. It looked like he was creating a new MEST universe. Unfortunately I did not write down the article’s URL. I would like to learn more about the final days of LRH. ...

By all reports lrh's final years were spent in various private locations attended and supported by his personal entourage. Hospitalization was not involved. He was attended during that time by his personal physician for a variety of medical conditions.

The only period of his life apparently which involved a question of psychiatric hospitalization was a brief time in which he sought medical assistance from the VA after WWII. I don't recall if he was formally admitted, or not. Operation Clambake likely has the relevant details on their website.


Mark A. Baker
 

smartone

My Own Boss
Isn't there a book being released soon called "Inside Scientology" where there are two chapters explaining what happened in detail to LRH during his last years and the happenings with Miscavige at that time?

I know there was a write-up a couple of weeks ago on ESMB about it. Sorry, I can't seem to find the link.
 
It's debatable exactly when Hubbard went completely insane, but there is no debating he was already nuttier than Grandma's Fruit Cake in the 1960s when he started believing his own drug induced science fiction and created his silly ass fake navy.
 
It's debatable exactly when Hubbard went completely insane, but there is no debating he was already nuttier than Grandma's Fruit Cake in the 1960s when he started believing his own drug induced science fiction and created his silly ass fake navy.

Drug induced and paranoid schizophrenia induced.

Paranoid schizophrenia was mainifested in his interpersonal relationships. That extended well beyond people he actually met because he announced that he was the only one on Earth who could save all of it's inhabitants and created and organization to do so. To disagree with this was very upsetting to his paranoid schizophrenic delusions.

He tricked people into supporting the lifestyle to which he felt he should be accustomed. He could have taken what was good from them and made something decent with it. But the paranoid schizophrenia dictated otherwise. He started to co-opt people into his paranoid scizophrenia, demanding that they manifest it as enforcers of KSW, plus other green on white and advices etc, especially in the GO/OSA. With the red on white he went even further and demanded that his supporters install HIS paranoid schizophrenic delusions into their own psche.

It did not help much that he offered the sickness and the cure in a package, because the cure is of course part of the paranoid schizophrenia.
 

Clarence Rockaway

Patron with Honors
Drug induced and paranoid schizophrenia induced.

Paranoid schizophrenia was mainifested in his interpersonal relationships. That extended well beyond people he actually met because he announced that he was the only one on Earth who could save all of it's inhabitants and created and organization to do so. To disagree with this was very upsetting to his paranoid schizophrenic delusions.

He tricked people into supporting the lifestyle to which he felt he should be accustomed. He could have taken what was good from them and made something decent with it. But the paranoid schizophrenia dictated otherwise. He started to co-opt people into his paranoid scizophrenia, demanding that they manifest it as enforcers of KSW, plus other green on white and advices etc, especially in the GO/OSA. With the red on white he went even further and demanded that his supporters install HIS paranoid schizophrenic delusions into their own psche.

It did not help much that he offered the sickness and the cure in a package, because the cure is of course part of the paranoid schizophrenia.
In 1946 he was at a VA hospital in Oakland, from which some cutsey folksy stories about a fellow convalescent named Yankiwitz evolved. The fact was that LRH was a rather ordinary writer of inferior adventure stories, 'The Buckskin Brigade,' etc. In '47 he became a devotee of Alister Crowley, but was still rather average, apart from his weird Bahomet beliefs...but then this malaprop suddenly comes out with Dianetics: the Original Thesis. This would be the equivalent of Joe Biden writing Einstein's Theory of Relativity. What happened between 1946-47-and 48? Who intervened to make this jackass capable of publishing the above named book? I knew John Galusha in Denver. John was Hubbard's righthand man at one time, and was the first President of the CofS when it was founded in 1955. One thing about John Galusha, his ethics were so clean, that when he and Mike Goldstein were called on the carpet to the Ft. Harrison in the early eighties, the ogres went limp in Galusha's presence. They couldn't attack. John wouldn't pick up a penny from the street if he were starving. One day he told me that he and Haskell Cook, had been given a packet from LRH, and they were to rendezvous at a place in the country, where E.T.'s would come and take up the parcel.

John said that there wasn't a doubt in his mind, that E.T.'s would come. Only it rained that evening and the mission was aborted. I for one think that Hubbard was a puppet of E.T.'s at one point. He had to have gotten all that high flown space crap from somebody. He may have gone off the deep end at some later date, but his behaviour toward his wives and children, and his firm belief in "Do as thou will", (paraphrasing), from Crowley, show that the capability of sheer evil was always there. His thinking himself to be Satan would be in keeping with 666, which wasn't his room number at Bellevue.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
In 1946 he was at a VA hospital in Oakland, from which some cutsey folksy stories about a fellow convalescent named Yankiwitz evolved. The fact was that LRH was a rather ordinary writer of inferior adventure stories, 'The Buckskin Brigade,' etc. In '47 he became a devotee of Alister Crowley, but was still rather average, apart from his weird Bahomet beliefs...but then this malaprop suddenly comes out with Dianetics: the Original Thesis. This would be the equivalent of Joe Biden writing Einstein's Theory of Relativity. What happened between 1946-47-and 48? Who intervened to make this jackass capable of publishing the above named book? I knew John Galusha in Denver. John was Hubbard's righthand man at one time, and was the first President of the CofS when it was founded in 1955. One thing about John Galusha, his ethics were so clean, that when he and Mike Goldstein were called on the carpet to the Ft. Harrison in the early eighties, the ogres went limp in Galusha's presence. They couldn't attack. John wouldn't pick up a penny from the street if he were starving. One day he told me that he and Haskell Cook, had been given a packet from LRH, and they were to rendezvous at a place in the country, where E.T.'s would come and take up the parcel.

John said that there wasn't a doubt in his mind, that E.T.'s would come. Only it rained that evening and the mission was aborted. I for one think that Hubbard was a puppet of E.T.'s at one point. He had to have gotten all that high flown space crap from somebody.
He may have gone off the deep end at some later date, but his behaviour toward his wives and children, and his firm belief in "Do as thou will", (paraphrasing), from Crowley, show that the capability of sheer evil was always there. His thinking himself to be Satan would be in keeping with 666, which wasn't his room number at Bellevue.


Fascinating stuff, this rendezvous with ETs.

If it's true the Hubbard gave such a parcel and instructions to John, it has to mean one of the following:

a) Hubbard was in communication with Extra Terrestrials.

b) Hubbard mistakenly believed he was in communication with Extra Terrestrials.

c) Hubbard didn't believe this but wanted John (and others) to believe he was in communication with Extra Terrestrials.

d) Hubbard mistakenly believed he was in communication with Extra Terrestrials AND he wanted others to know about it.
If it was "a" all bets are off and the world of Scientology is far different than anyone imagines.

If it was "b" that would make Hubbard self-deluded and a good candidate to be institutionalized as dangerous to himself and/or others.

It it was "c" this would be consistent with all the other knowingly false claims Hubbard made about Clear and OT and a bridge to total freedom.

If it was "d" it would mean that to some unknown degree, Hubbard really believed he had discovered (or was close to discovering) a "tech" of inestimable value to mankind.

Piecing together all that I know of Hubbard from my own experience and that of others, if I had to make a wager on it, I'd take the extremely likely scenario of "c". Occam's razor.

Supporting the conjecture that Hubbard KNEW he was defrauding others is a vast amount of non-working tech that Hubbard continued to sell at lavish prices, long after he realized it did not work. Examples abound, but to name but one, in the late 1950's he admitted during a filmed lecture that DMSMH did NOT produce a Clear. But that did not stop him from reaping hundreds of millions of dollars from it from 1958 thru 1986 by conning people worldwide.

A very possible scenario also has Hubbard PROMOTING & COLLECTING MONEY FIRST (his successful actions as described in the Emergency Formula materials) and then TRYING TO FIND SOME WAY TO DELIVER A PRODUCT LATER. Ron called this advanced technology or holy scripture. Wogs call it fraud.

Final note: Hubbard may well have been delusional enough to think that he was a messiah from another planet (as he claimed) and as such, he wouldn't have had to worry about guilt for leading all his cult followers thru countless dead ends--because he was arrogant, greedy, heartless and crazy enough to believe in his divinity and that he could ultimately find the Holy Grail of spiritual freedom.

There is real madness surrounding the world of L. Ron Hubbard and his cult members and it is not easy to see thru the layers of his secrecy to know what he was actually thinking.

But, regardless of what he thought, his actions were egregiously harmful to countless numbers, not the least of which is the stealing of their money, time and hope under false pretenses. For that alone, Hubbard should have been in prison and then he could have arranged to have the ETs come and meet him, if that is what he actually thought.
 
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LongTimeGone

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks for that HH but I have to call attention to your post which says "...it has to mean one of the 3:"
and then gives us 4 to choose from.

Hey Gordon Clarke, lookey lookey:

HH is one of those "...three type of people on planet earth: Those who can count and those who can't."

LTG
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Thanks for that HH but I have to call attention to your post which says "...it has to mean one of the 3:"
and then gives us 4 to choose from.

Hey Gordon Clarke, lookey lookey:

HH is one of those "...three type of people on planet earth: Those who can count and those who can't."

LTG



lololol

Typo noted and corrected, thanks!

I learned my weird multiple choice tech from Scientology surveys....

PICK THE ONE (1) OF THESE THREE (3) THAT BEST DESCRIBES SCIENTOLOGY?

1. Scientology Works!
2. Scientology Works!
3. Scientology Works!
4. Scientology Works!
 

Jump

Operating teatime
three, fore, tree, floor, tea, four

Repeat after me:

"Three free fleas flew through three cheese trees"

... you just passed TR3 .. or 4 :coolwink:
 

Clarence Rockaway

Patron with Honors
three, fore, tree, floor, tea, four

Repeat after me:

"Three free fleas flew through three cheese trees"

... you just passed TR3 .. or 4 :coolwink:
Repeat after me, three times fast....I'm not a pheasant plucker, I'm a pheasant plucker's mate.

You just flunked your 2-D rundown.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
Did LRH go bonkers? I believe he did, at the end... but I also believe he always was bonkers. There is such a thing as being insane without being delusional. Some insane people are still able to function: to live well, and to be quite charming... while also being a danger to society. Hubbard was one of them.

He was a psychopath.

The gold standard is diagnosing the psychopath is Robert D. Hare's Psychopathy Checklist-Revised, or 'PCL-R'. I have to warn that Hare considers that the test is only valid if administered by a suitably qualified and experienced clinician under controlled and licensed conditions... and we can't do that because LRH has obstinately remained dead for a quarter of a century. Still, have a quick look at the twenty categories in the PCL-R:

1 Glibness/superficial charm
2 Grandiose sense of self-worth
3 Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
4 Pathological lying
5 Cunning/manipulative
6 Lack of remorse or guilt
7 Shallow affect
8 Callous/lack of empathy
9 Parasitic lifestyle
10 Poor behavioural controls
11 Promiscuous sexual behaviour
12 Early behaviour problems
13 Lack of realistic long-term goals
14 Impulsivity
15 Irresponsibility
16 Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
17 Many short-term marital relationships
18 Juvenile delinquency
19 Revocation of conditional release
20 Criminal versatility

In each category, the interviewer assigns a score of 0, 1 or 2, and a score of between 30 and 40 reveals a psychopath. There is no known cure for this form of mental illness: psychopaths never get better.

Look at what you know about the life of LRH. Not just the CofS propaganda, but your own memories of the man, and the descriptions offered by the people who knew him, in various sources available to an 'ex'... Russel Miller's book for example. And there you have it: L Ron Hubbard was a psychopath. A successful one... but still a psychopath. That list of twenty points has LRH written all over it.

In later life, he started to believe his own nonsense. This is the beginning of the delusional part. The recreational drug use can't have helped, and his mental state was further assaulted when eager cultists rewarded him so handsomely, with adulation and material things... plus the pressure to keep on providing 'proof' of 'new' and 'better' things, when he had never actually figure out how to give anybody any of the abilities he claimed.

Small wonder that he ended up nuttier than a squirrel's fart.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Did LRH go bonkers? I believe he did, at the end... but I also believe he always was bonkers. There is such a thing as being insane without being delusional. Some insane people are still able to function: to live well, and to be quite charming... while also being a danger to society. Hubbard was one of them.

He was a psychopath.

The gold standard is diagnosing the psychopath is Robert D. Hare's Psychopathy Checklist-Revised, or 'PCL-R'. I have to warn that Hare considers that the test is only valid if administered by a suitably qualified and experienced clinician under controlled and licensed conditions... and we can't do that because LRH has obstinately remained dead for a quarter of a century. Still, have a quick look at the twenty categories in the PCL-R:

1 Glibness/superficial charm
2 Grandiose sense of self-worth
3 Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
4 Pathological lying
5 Cunning/manipulative
6 Lack of remorse or guilt
7 Shallow affect
8 Callous/lack of empathy
9 Parasitic lifestyle
10 Poor behavioural controls
11 Promiscuous sexual behaviour
12 Early behaviour problems
13 Lack of realistic long-term goals
14 Impulsivity
15 Irresponsibility
16 Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
17 Many short-term marital relationships
18 Juvenile delinquency
19 Revocation of conditional release
20 Criminal versatility

In each category, the interviewer assigns a score of 0, 1 or 2, and a score of between 30 and 40 reveals a psychopath. There is no known cure for this form of mental illness: psychopaths never get better.

Look at what you know about the life of LRH. Not just the CofS propaganda, but your own memories of the man, and the descriptions offered by the people who knew him, in various sources available to an 'ex'... Russel Miller's book for example. And there you have it: L Ron Hubbard was a psychopath. A successful one... but still a psychopath. That list of twenty points has LRH written all over it.

In later life, he started to believe his own nonsense. This is the beginning of the delusional part. The recreational drug use can't have helped, and his mental state was further assaulted when eager cultists rewarded him so handsomely, with adulation and material things... plus the pressure to keep on providing 'proof' of 'new' and 'better' things, when he had never actually figure out how to give anybody any of the abilities he claimed.

Small wonder that he ended up nuttier than a squirrel's fart.

I was going to write something on this thread, but this post NAILS IT!

Hubbard ALWAYS had something very much "wrong with him". The nature of that may have changed over the years, but he was NEVER "well". An honest look into his ACTUAL past and history from the time as a young boy displays that.

I find it quite hilarious that Hubbard's name will be "smashed into history" mostly as a buffoon. :ohmy:
 
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