Difference of leaving a cult as a born in

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
It is a little bit difficult for me to explain in English, but I will try...

The last days I have lots thought about the difference of leaving a cult as a born in (getting in contact in young years) and people who came as an adult into a cult....

The reason, why I thought about this, I was on a symposium about cults, I self talked about "Childhood in Scientology" there.

On one day a Psychologist (Dieter Rohmann, www.kulte.de) spoke about the topic "leaving a Cult as a born in"... and I have found myself in everything, what he have said...

A "normal" person that leaves a Cult, has a life before the Cult and that person can build a new life on this... That person knows how it is to live without a cult.

Born in is missing this, they know only a life with the rules of a cult.

In the cult, their self respect can't grow... They can't "store" "compliments" for "bad days". Their identity is the cult and not themselves. They don't know the "real world", they only know the "Cult World"... Everything they have to learn new. Dieter Rohmann eg explained, they even have to learn how to make friends, they don't know how to do it.

As I left, I had lots of this problems and I still have some of this. It is difficult for me to make friendships, I have problems to get in contact, with "new" people, me is missing there something, Something what I never learned. Sometimes I believe people thing I am "odd". I try not to use the tech, I try to be me, but who am I, what do I want. I was never me... Now after a while out, I guess I know who I am and what I want. With using the "Tech" I feel self-assured and sometimes, if I am unsure or something like that, I use it, without the "Tech" I often feel helpless.

Another problem is the strict "Black and White Thinking", "wrong or right"... I can only think, is this right or wrong, what does the person expects from me... Not what I want to do, I often look, what other people wants me to do... The Psychologist sayd, it exist no "right or wrong" and with that "thinking" it goes me much better... I can listen to myself, what I want to do.

How do you see a difference and what are your experiences? :)

At my Blog http://kindseininscientology.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/sektenausstieg-von-sektenkindern/, I wrote in German about my thoughts this is much better explained... But there I don't get another opinions, experiences about this topic. :)
 

Sindy

Crusader
So beautiful. You did just fine with the English, I understand completely.

I am going to come back to this thread tomorrow, when I am able to write more. I have to go to bed now. This is thought provoking.

In addition, you are lovely. :hug:
 

Sindy

Crusader
Hi again Nicole.

I was not born in BUT I have something slightly similar to you as maybe some others do too.

Before getting into Scientology I was not doing that well, had some debt, dropped out of college and was wandering aimlessly and getting into trouble, drugs, boys :) etc. and partially joined the militant cult just to get a certain amount of discipline going in my life.

I bring this up only because though it absolutely is not the same thing as being born in, there are some similar challenges. As so many of us, I spent 25 years inside doggedly (though thank god not diligently enough) persisting on an unatainable goal, "getting through the OT levels" so I could be that promised super being who could confront any thing and have the spoils and riches of that superior being I was to become (while all the while not doing any of the things my peers in the "wog world" were doing to actually get there).

So, now my husband and I have a lot of catching up and learning to do. We really have few friends yet, outside of the ex-community (which is mostly online). Again, it is not the same as your situation but I have had to really adjust my thinking.

Here's what I see in you. I see a very kind person -- a compassionate person. I see an intelligent woman with lots of great qualities. I'm not a counselor but I think that in addition to finding out these things that you are learning about people being born into cults, do also sit back and realize the beauty and the goodness of you, all on your own, because regardless of the circumstances, you are a good person. Build on that and know that though you may have a hard time making friends, a lot of people have that same problem. Everyone wants to be loved. Almost everyone is afraid of rejection and of being vulnerable.

If you can realize that about others and be as loving as you can be, you'll eventually have more friends than you know what to do with. That's my plan. None of us came into this world with a manual. Most people have a lot of uncertainties regardless of their "stable" upbringing. Sure, lots of people have been brought up with good guidance but lots have not -- cult or no cult. You are not alone. This may or may not be helpful. I think I'll read it :) It's an article about facing and embracing uncertainty. Let's see if we like it :) If not, there's a whole Internet of shit out there.

http://margiewarrell.com/facing-uncertainty/

:bighug::handinhand::blowkiss:
 
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Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I think you are doing so well my girl! Not only adjusting but also speaking out, what courage.

I wasn't born in, I was 14, so had a little bit of normal background, but I do understand. You are now on an adventure of finding out who you really are in such a different way that scientologists mean it. :) Listen to yourself, yes. Read Eckhart Tolle books. Be yourself, be kind, people will respond to that no matter who they are.

:heartflower:
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think you are doing so well my girl! Not only adjusting but also speaking out, what courage.

I wasn't born in, I was 14, so had a little bit of normal background, but I do understand. You are now on an adventure of finding out who you really are in such a different way that scientologists mean it. :) Listen to yourself, yes. Read Eckhart Tolle books. Be yourself, be kind, people will respond to that no matter who they are.

:heartflower:
My friend finally got her sister out when their father died of cancer. He was the groundskeeper for the sandcastle. he had skin cancer but didnt see a dr. until it was too late. (only in his forties:bigcry:) so the little sister was born in and got out when she was fourteen. she did not know how to even use a telephone, she couldnt read the public transport schedules, and had major dental problems. it was like taking some one in from another planet. very very sad. she never really quite got on her feet, but she was a beautiful girl and eventually got married. she disconnected from everyone who ever had anything to do with scientology, so i have not been able to get in touch with her for years. yes, i would think being born in is a completely unique experience to joining later.

i remember seeing her when she was a newborn, living at the hollywood inn, with roaches in her crib. my god.
when she was anout two she came to my house, and it was the first time she had ever seen a cat! what a strange life she must have led. not allowing children was a smart move, now if they would just not allow adults, the situation could be fixed!

thanks for writing this.
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks Sindy and Free to Shine...

I believe before I can get in a good contact with others, I have to learn who I am... It is like I have to learn, which music I like and not what I believe what other people would like which music I like... and than I just have to be me...

Sindy, you have written, that you think, I am a good person, I hope I am... But as I was a Scientologist I was also an "evil" person too, I was able to destroy peoples life... It was the reason I left, because I haven't liked this, but this is part of me too... I have to live with this, but I feel ashamed...

One of my favourites books, about how to live a good life... ;) I am not sure if that is "common" in English speaking countries...
http://www.amazon.de/Situation-Hope...eywords=watzlawick+englisch#reader_0393310213



"In present time", she lived really in another world, but imo this is not a normal Scientology childhood, this is very strange. I hope her wounds could heal. This is so sad and it makes me very angry, that no adult, if Scientologist or not, helped this girl. :grouch:
 
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Red Valiant

Patron with Honors
This is an excellent thread topic, and a very important one too. It's near & dear to me. Thanks Nicole for sharing. Not sure what you're native language is, but you did just fine. :)

I was a "recruit" back in the late 1970's as result of love-bombing tech. The mother of my children was a recuit too, but was the victim of the "find your ruin" tech. Our kids though, born in the 1980s, were 2nd generation cult kids as a product of their parents involvement in $cn.

I hope this thread has legs, and grows with input, as being born into a narrowed mind think adds much complications when they become adults and try to sort through why they should stay and follow, or get out of the foggy mess.
 

Sindy

Crusader
This is an excellent thread topic, and a very important one too. It's near & dear to me. Thanks Nicole for sharing. Not sure what you're native language is, but you did just fine. :)

I was a "recruit" back in the late 1970's as result of love-bombing tech. The mother of my children was a recuit too, but was the victim of the "find your ruin" tech. Our kids though, born in the 1980s, were 2nd generation cult kids as a product of their parents involvement in $cn.

I hope this thread has legs, and grows with input, as being born into a narrowed mind think adds much complications when they become adults and try to sort through why they should stay and follow, or get out of the foggy mess.

Throw some more stuff up there Red -- would love to hear your views.
 

Sindy

Crusader
My "views" are based on first hand experience. For starters, here's a movie I helped produce 6+ years ago ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bridge_(2006_drama_film) which captures much reality, but of which OSA worked hard to remove it from the public's eye.

Nice! Yes, I saw this movie. Great job. The part with the dad calling Flag to speak with his daughter and how that was handled was a tear jerker because that's really how it is. :angry:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
One day I will be free to tell all my stories, not yet. They are heartbreaking, heart rending and some almost unbelievable about what scientology does to a family unit and especially children.

Those of us who are out and can talk, need to do so. Lives may be saved.

Those who were born in and now struggle to understand life and relationships, I hope you read this board and find the nuggets of wisdom and meantime most of all be kind to yourself.
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
One day I will be free to tell all my stories, not yet. They are heartbreaking, heart rending and some almost unbelievable about what scientology does to a family unit and especially children.

Those of us who are out and can talk, need to do so. Lives may be saved.

Those who were born in and now struggle to understand life and relationships, I hope you read this board and find the nuggets of wisdom and meantime most of all be kind to yourself.

You know, I have spoken about published stories of your past... How it was to be a mother as Scientologist... it reached the people, they listened to it and they asked questions about this time of your life. I am glad you allowed me to talk about this, even if it was anonymous. Thanks.

Free to shine, you are a great person. Your posts help(ed) me lots... You was always there, as an internet friend and it helps me to know, if I am in trouble I can get in contact with you or other members of ESMB. :yes: I am also not really born in, but I was young 9 years old. I had a little life before Scientology. I hope my posts and comments about this will help others.

...and Scientologists, just blow, you are not alone. Freedom and thinking for yourself is unfamiliar but great. I don't want to miss it anymore.
 

JustMe

Patron Meritorious
One day I will be free to tell all my stories, not yet. They are heartbreaking, heart rending and some almost unbelievable about what scientology does to a family unit and especially children.

Those of us who are out and can talk, need to do so. Lives may be saved.

Those who were born in and now struggle to understand life and relationships, I hope you read this board and find the nuggets of wisdom and meantime most of all be kind to yourself.


I very much look forward to the day you write your stories.

You are an amazing, wonderful person and the sharing of hearts that would happen as you told your story would be healing to us all. And it would enrich us all to really discover our sister from down under.
 

JustMe

Patron Meritorious
.....................As I left, I had lots of this problems and I still have some of this. It is difficult for me to make friendships, I have problems to get in contact, with "new" people, me is missing there something, Something what I never learned. Sometimes I believe people thing I am "odd". I try not to use the tech, I try to be me, but who am I, what do I want. I was never me... Now after a while out, I guess I know who I am and what I want. With using the "Tech" I feel self-assured and sometimes, if I am unsure or something like that, I use it, without the "Tech" I often feel helpless...............

And now you have many friends, us. :grouphug:

Thank you for sharing part of your story. It helps us all.
 

JustMe

Patron Meritorious
Hi again Nicole.

I was not born in BUT I have something slightly similar to you as maybe some others do too.

Before getting into Scientology I was not doing that well, had some debt, dropped out of college and was wandering aimlessly and getting into trouble, drugs, boys :) etc. and partially joined the militant cult just to get a certain amount of discipline going in my life.

I bring this up only because though it absolutely is not the same thing as being born in, there are some similar challenges. As so many of us, I spent 25 years inside doggedly (though thank god not diligently enough) persisting on an unatainable goal, "getting through the OT levels" so I could be that promised super being who could confront any thing and have the spoils and riches of that superior being I was to become (while all the while not doing any of the things my peers in the "wog world" were doing to actually get there).

So, now my husband and I have a lot of catching up and learning to do. We really have few friends yet, outside of the ex-community (which is mostly online). Again, it is not the same as your situation but I have had to really adjust my thinking.

Here's what I see in you. I see a very kind person -- a compassionate person. I see an intelligent woman with lots of great qualities. I'm not a counselor but I think that in addition to finding out these things that you are learning about people being born into cults, do also sit back and realize the beauty and the goodness of you, all on your own, because regardless of the circumstances, you are a good person. Build on that and know that though you may have a hard time making friends, a lot of people have that same problem. Everyone wants to be loved. Almost everyone is afraid of rejection and of being vulnerable.

If you can realize that about others and be as loving as you can be, you'll eventually have more friends than you know what to do with. That's my plan. None of us came into this world with a manual. Most people have a lot of uncertainties regardless of their "stable" upbringing. Sure, lots of people have been brought up with good guidance but lots have not -- cult or no cult. You are not alone. This may or may not be helpful. I think I'll read it :) It's an article about facing and embracing uncertainty. Let's see if we like it :) If not, there's a whole Internet of shit out there.

http://margiewarrell.com/facing-uncertainty/

:bighug::handinhand::blowkiss:

Beautifully said Sindy :bigcry:

It has been so nice getting to know you somewhat through your posts.
 

Red Valiant

Patron with Honors
BUMP! Being a 2nd or 3rd generation individual of a high demand sect, has profound and deep issues to sort through -- far more than a recruit who gets a clue and wants to bolt. There are many books on cults that reveal this. Most recently, Jenna Hill's shines major daylight on this unpleasant family/cult topic.
 

Crashed Alien

Patron with Honors
It is a little bit difficult for me to explain in English, but I will try...

The last days I have lots thought about the difference of leaving a cult as a born in (getting in contact in young years) and people who came as an adult into a cult....

The reason, why I thought about this, I was on a symposium about cults, I self talked about "Childhood in Scientology" there.

On one day a Psychologist (Dieter Rohmann, www.kulte.de) spoke about the topic "leaving a Cult as a born in"... and I have found myself in everything, what he have said...

A "normal" person that leaves a Cult, has a life before the Cult and that person can build a new life on this... That person knows how it is to live without a cult.

Born in is missing this, they know only a life with the rules of a cult.

In the cult, their self respect can't grow... They can't "store" "compliments" for "bad days". Their identity is the cult and not themselves. They don't know the "real world", they only know the "Cult World"... Everything they have to learn new. Dieter Rohmann eg explained, they even have to learn how to make friends, they don't know how to do it.

As I left, I had lots of this problems and I still have some of this. It is difficult for me to make friendships, I have problems to get in contact, with "new" people, me is missing there something, Something what I never learned. Sometimes I believe people thing I am "odd". I try not to use the tech, I try to be me, but who am I, what do I want. I was never me... Now after a while out, I guess I know who I am and what I want. With using the "Tech" I feel self-assured and sometimes, if I am unsure or something like that, I use it, without the "Tech" I often feel helpless.

Another problem is the strict "Black and White Thinking", "wrong or right"... I can only think, is this right or wrong, what does the person expects from me... Not what I want to do, I often look, what other people wants me to do... The Psychologist sayd, it exist no "right or wrong" and with that "thinking" it goes me much better... I can listen to myself, what I want to do.

How do you see a difference and what are your experiences? :)

At my Blog http://kindseininscientology.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/sektenausstieg-von-sektenkindern/, I wrote in German about my thoughts this is much better explained... But there I don't get another opinions, experiences about this topic. :)

Nicole

Thank you for your eloquent and sensitive post.

I was born into Scientology in 1964...

I can relate to what you say precisely and am having great difficulty too. I also feel ashamed to admit it, but I am up to that now...

I really hope you adjust and have great success.

It is a warm a friendly world, not the harsh badlands that I had expected but it has taken me a very long time to come to this conclusion.

Making friends is still difficult but I so not know if it is my background or just me...

My early attempts failed as I was simply too arrogant and opinionated with absolutely no regard for other peoples opinions at all...

I also considered that I had all the answers and that stopped be progressing or looking outside my blinkers for a very long time.

A VERY long time. I feel very stupid about that and wonder sometimes if I threw half my life away.

But that is a bad road to take so I look forward into the future now, with an open mind.

I genuinely and warmly wish you all the best.

Crash
 
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