Difference of leaving a cult as a born in

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Niccole, your English is better than many who claim to speak it natively.

On a general level, I would agree that an all-time cultist would face a greater challenge in the outside world. However, I was already messed up as far as the outside world was concerned and scn looked like a great refuge----if you think hiding in a mincing machine is a good idea.
  1. There is no such thing as "normal" when it comes to people.
  2. To deal with "black and white thinking", change "right and wrong" to the traditional Japanese "appropriate and inappropriate". It makes "moral" issues much easier to decide, and also realize that many "rights and wrongs" are hypothetical opinions until a person is faced with the reality. We can all stand around and say "abortion is wrong", but what happens when you find yourself in a medical situation having to decide whether to save mother or baby?
After more than 20 years out, I'm still "odd" and I no longer care. That's who I am.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
This is a comment from an article on the Underground Bunker from Jon Atack's article on why it is so hard to leave scientology that applies to this thread:



Roman • 9 hours ago

Pretty poignant overview of some huge issues besetting cult members, both current and former. I grew up in it and left when I was 22 - getting myself declared. I'm 25 now and still spot the ridiculous neuroses laid in by my experiences with the Church.

The biggest issue I'm getting over - and I have other friends who feel the same - is that my parents inundated and surrounded me with NOTHING but Scientology from day one as a child. Everyone from my chiropractor to my dentist to my teacher, all my school mates and my parents' friends were Scientologists. So by the time I became of age and able to leave the Church, it was at the cost of losing my ENTIRE childhood essentially. In my opinion, it was one of the cruelest ploys to force on a child.

I believe it takes a long time to recover because The Church's investigation arms - OSA and HCO are fucking ruthless when it comes to stalking, harassing and badmouthing you to a vicious degree. It's very disconcerting and most people, such as myself, are so shaken up already and we don't want to add people harassing us on top of that, so we just kind of disappear in a sense for long enough to make sense of what in the hell happened with our lives.

http://tonyortega.org/2013/06/08/jon-atack-on-why-its-so-hard-to-recover-from-scientology/

(thread here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...hy-It%92s-So-Hard-To-Recover-From-Scientology)
 

Red Valiant

Patron with Honors
A parting thought from an old guard dude... Being sucked into a cult like $cn (and others,) has many complications of ~recruitment~ theories and applied tech. On the otherhand, being born into one has many different issues to sort through. I hope as parents we see the vast obligations to break the bonds
we had created for them way back when. The rewards can be a very warm feeling of redemption and help reduce guilt for what we had done -- even if it was tacit approval in my own case.

There is hope through understanding!:yes:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
One of my ongoing projects is to identify the core values that scientology instills in the young that so drastically affect their future lives. The list is long, very long, but I would like to concentrate on a few of the big ones and have a reference thread or something that discusses them. I'm not sure when I will get around to this and if anyone is interested in helping with a list we could work on, pm me. :)
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
One of my ongoing projects is to identify the core values that scientology instills in the young that so drastically affect their future lives. The list is long, very long, but I would like to concentrate on a few of the big ones and have a reference thread or something that discusses them. I'm not sure when I will get around to this and if anyone is interested in helping with a list we could work on, pm me. :)

  • Produce, produce, produce!
  • Make more money!
  • It's only a body. Keep working beyond its breaking point because you're "saving the planet".
  • The only aspects of your First Dynamic that are relevant are those seen on the Third Dynamic (PR). "Tiredness and hunger" is just case on post.
 

Dennis

Patron
hi Nicole,

I too was born and raised in Scientology, and can relate directly to a lot, actually everything, of what you have said. Trouble connecting with people, doing and saying what I thought people expected me to do and say as opposed to what I wanted to do, having strength and confidence with the tech behind me and being anxiety ridden without it, not knowing what "I" like, and not having a pre-scientology life I could re-boot back too.

One of my biggest challenges has been connecting with other people and making friendships. There are many books that helped me get a grasp of conversing with others - such as Making Friends: A guide to getting along with people by Andrew Matthew, Conversationally Speaking by Alan Garner, Click by Ori & Rom Brafman. But I have found the best way to build friendships is to share your experiences, including your experiences in Scientology. And likewise, being interested in others experiences and stories. It takes a lot of work to maintain friendships, so you may only develop one or two good friendships, but that is the case with most people.

Another thing I have found is scientific studies have shown childhood trauma can inhibit the hormone oxytocin which creates bonding and trust in interactions (friendships, relationships, etc), so doing things that raise your oxytocin levels can help greatly ie hugging, kissing, petting a pet/animal, massage, touching, sharing, giving, helping others, exercise, alone or with others, etc. You can read more about this on the internet or The Moral Molecule by Paul J. Zak.

I too found a lot of personal strength with the tech behind me, but it just did not work in the real world. One of the biggest problems is that there is a lot of wisdom in the tech, however, how it is applied by Scientologists is wrong. LRH stole a lot of his teachings from Psychology and Philosophy, plagiarised it, reworked it, and spat it out as Scientology tech.

I found it helpful to read Combatting Mind Control by Steven Hassan and Psychology and Philosophy books. Read the books that give you short explanations of all the different trains of Psychology and Philosophy thought. You will come across ideas borrowed by LRH, but in the context they were intended. Then, based on a balanced viewpoint you can decide whether you want to keep, discard, change, or replace a certain aspect of how you view the world. You basically get the chance to build the person you want to be. It takes time, but is very rewarding as each change in viewpoint makes you see the world anew.

Be open to new experiences, new ideas, new thoughts, new ways of thinking, and new ways of seeing the world, and you will be amazed at the person you will become.

I am currently working with a child psychologist so I can get a good perspective of how experiences in my childhood have affected how I act and react now. One of the more interesting aspects I have found helpful is if a child was not raised with love, or sharing emotions, or developing friendships, or whatever it may be, then the child does not develop the brain neural pathways to express in this area and this continues into adulthood. Basically, if you don't use it you lose it, or in our case if you never learnt it, you never build it. But the good news is that recent scientific literature is showing that the brain has plasticity, which means you can re-train the brain ie If you concentrate on negatives all the time, then keep a daily gratitude diary; if you don't share your emotions, then keep a daily personal diary; etc. The thing about re-training your brain is that it has to be a daily longterm thing.

One thing that I am still struggling with today is a career and how to keep my life occupied for the rest of my life. I have worked in everyday jobs but nothing has given me any satisfaction. Growing up in Scientology there is not a big focus on traditional education, so I never did HSC (year 12), never went to University/College. And even if I did, I don't know what I am interested in. My childhood dreams and talents were never developed, and I can't even remember what they were.

The best advice I can give you, if you are not doing so already, is to find out what really (and I mean really) interests you in terms of career and start working towards it now. I believe it will give you the most satisfaction in terms of the effort you put in (most bang for your buck). All the rest you can explore, or may even develop naturally, along the way.

:yes:
 
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Weagook

Patron
I wan't born in but grew up in from young age and understand the challenges of life after. Life does continue after and with time, you'll find your way! :yes:
 

RedRiver

New Member
I was 15 when I was sent off to the E.P.F. it really does scare you because your so young and being around a bunch of adults that don't give a care that your still a kid. My recruiter was nice until he got tired of showing me around the LA Pac Org. My family ditched me basically and since I have been out I have no family to turn to. I will admit that after 13 years I kind still get that feeling of being institutionalized. Also, I gotta thank god that I don't have to be there anymore.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
I was 15 when I was sent off to the E.P.F. it really does scare you because your so young and being around a bunch of adults that don't give a care that your still a kid. My recruiter was nice until he got tired of showing me around the LA Pac Org. My family ditched me basically and since I have been out I have no family to turn to. I will admit that after 13 years I kind still get that feeling of being institutionalized. Also, I gotta thank god that I don't have to be there anymore.

That's fucked up, but YAY for being out, It's gonibng to be hell for the last people in as it wasn't allready. Well maybe you can connect sometimeup with some fine SP's in that neighbourhood like Tory Christman and a few others.

Redriver ? Do you have Native American Blood ?
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
Wow, I haven't read long here. I tried to make a break from the Scientology "Topic" the last weeks. Good to know not beeing alone with this experiences and the results of this "education". :yes:
 

RedRiver

New Member
That's fucked up, but YAY for being out, It's gonibng to be hell for the last people in as it wasn't allready. Well maybe you can connect sometimeup with some fine SP's in that neighbourhood like Tory Christman and a few others.

Redriver ? Do you have Native American Blood ?




Not sure
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
Hi again Nicole.

I was not born in BUT I have something slightly similar to you as maybe some others do too.

Before getting into Scientology I was not doing that well, had some debt, dropped out of college and was wandering aimlessly and getting into trouble, drugs, boys :) etc. and partially joined the militant cult just to get a certain amount of discipline going in my life.

I bring this up only because though it absolutely is not the same thing as being born in, there are some similar challenges. As so many of us, I spent 25 years inside doggedly (though thank god not diligently enough) persisting on an unatainable goal, "getting through the OT levels" so I could be that promised super being who could confront any thing and have the spoils and riches of that superior being I was to become (while all the while not doing any of the things my peers in the "wog world" were doing to actually get there).

So, now my husband and I have a lot of catching up and learning to do. We really have few friends yet, outside of the ex-community (which is mostly online). Again, it is not the same as your situation but I have had to really adjust my thinking.

Here's what I see in you. I see a very kind person -- a compassionate person. I see an intelligent woman with lots of great qualities. I'm not a counselor but I think that in addition to finding out these things that you are learning about people being born into cults, do also sit back and realize the beauty and the goodness of you, all on your own, because regardless of the circumstances, you are a good person. Build on that and know that though you may have a hard time making friends, a lot of people have that same problem. Everyone wants to be loved. Almost everyone is afraid of rejection and of being vulnerable.

If you can realize that about others and be as loving as you can be, you'll eventually have more friends than you know what to do with. That's my plan. None of us came into this world with a manual. Most people have a lot of uncertainties regardless of their "stable" upbringing. Sure, lots of people have been brought up with good guidance but lots have not -- cult or no cult. You are not alone. This may or may not be helpful. I think I'll read it :) It's an article about facing and embracing uncertainty. Let's see if we like it :) If not, there's a whole Internet of shit out there.

http://margiewarrell.com/facing-uncertainty/

:bighug::handinhand::blowkiss:

Wow. That was nice Sindy.

Thanks Sindy and Free to Shine...

I believe before I can get in a good contact with others, I have to learn who I am... It is like I have to learn, which music I like and not what I believe what other people would like which music I like... and than I just have to be me...

Sindy, you have written, that you think, I am a good person, I hope I am... But as I was a Scientologist I was also an "evil" person too, I was able to destroy peoples life... It was the reason I left, because I haven't liked this, but this is part of me too... I have to live with this, but I feel ashamed...
One of my favourites books, about how to live a good life... ;) I am not sure if that is "common" in English speaking countries...
http://www.amazon.de/Situation-Hope...eywords=watzlawick+englisch#reader_0393310213



"In present time", she lived really in another world, but imo this is not a normal Scientology childhood, this is very strange. I hope her wounds could heal. This is so sad and it makes me very angry, that no adult, if Scientologist or not, helped this girl. :grouch:

Just the fact that you feel bad about "evil things " you may have done shows you have a conscience. That says good things for your character. So I guess it reinforces what Sindy said about you.

Great thread topic too. :thumbsup:
 

Sindy

Crusader
Beautifully said Sindy :bigcry:

It has been so nice getting to know you somewhat through your posts.

Awe! I just saw this now -- 4 months later.

Is there a way I can get notifications on people commenting on a post I made?

Thank you Denise :hug: and thank you in June too! :)

Wow. That was nice Sindy.

Just the fact that you feel bad about "evil things " you may have done shows you have a conscience. That says good things for your character. So I guess it reinforces what Sindy said about you.

Great thread topic too. :thumbsup:

Awe...thanks! Same goes for you. Sorry I missed this stuff. Thanks to Bea for bumping :)
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Awe! I just saw this now -- 4 months later.

Is there a way I can get notifications on people commenting on a post I made?

:)

You can search for your own name (search box is on the main page, on the upper right). You will get the posts where people have quoted you or mentioned you. At least, that's how I do it. Anybody knowing a better way, I'm curious too.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Hey, how's our Nicole doing as of today? Any new insights to share? :hug:

Nicole lives in a time zone 5-9 hours ahead of you (depending on where in the USA you are, so she's probably sound asleep ATM. Also, AFAIK, she's usually quite busy with family life, work, hobbies and all the other shit "wog"-people are doing. :coolwink:

So, please don't be disappointed if it takes her a while to reply - I'm sure she will.
 
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